It's like you're arguing from a perspective where you are trying to develop a competing narrative. In reality, you are saying stupid shit to try and defend your baby. That you would pretend that because I don't know what the economy would be like means that you have any clue is stupid. You made a claim about it that was and is stupid. Bullshit to the max. And it will always be bullshit. You don't know what it is going to be like, so stop pretending that you do.
Given equal skill, the player that purchases ships with real money will have a serious advantage over the one that doesn't.
For about a month after launch in a game that might be played 10+ years.
After that those interested will have bought the interesting ships with in game money only, paying no more than the 35 $ starter package. Leveling the playing field. And as everyone can only fly one ship at a time, it matters little if you have 50 ships in your hangar.
Why should it be any different than the other space games out there in that respect ? Once the players understand the trade system, getting in game money quickly is easy.
Have fun
I guess I don't understand why people are spending so much cash on ships now. If there's no real advantage to having them, and/or you can get them within a short time with in-game cash once the game launches, they why spend hundreds or thousands on them now? Are there really that many whales that are just basically making huge donations to the game?
There will absolutely be advantages for people who pay, anyone who thinks it is trivial is either in denial or being ignorant. Somebody was saying that other games did X and that's why it'll be ok in SC, which is nonsensical.
Chris Roberts has said that the cost of ships will increase dramatically compared to what they are now, so if a ship is currently the equivalent of 750,000 UEC he was on about it costing 10's of million UEC in the game. That's a huge advantage because they've skipped all that progression and the time it takes, they've skipped all the losses, all the mistakes, all the piracy etc. Instead they've jumped from a tiny ship that can only move a couple of crates of cargo to one which can shift 10,000 or more in 1 run.
It's like people jumping to endgame on day 1 of launch with a whole bunch of armor and weapons bought and paid for.
And people find satisfaction in that? I guess they do, look at all the P2W games of the last few years.
Most of us judge the game as it is now which is why we say it is massively p2w given similar skill. Those who try to dismiss it by saying buying a ship now won’t give an advantage for long Have no clue how the economy will work just like those of us who say it’s p2w will not know how the economy will work but at least we have our reasons rooted in reality based on current info.
Now just imagine those corps who buy up armadas of ships to lend out to friends and corp mates to rule swaths of space. They skip running all the shit missions to buy progressively better and better ships for their given role and just need to run shit missions to build up a money base for the good weapons/cargo.
I guess I don't understand why people are spending so much cash on ships now. If there's no real advantage to having them, and/or you can get them within a short time with in-game cash once the game launches, they why spend hundreds or thousands on them now? Are there really that many whales that are just basically making huge donations to the game?
Because its crowdfunding. That is in the nature of such projects.
For some people a large donation is spare change (or worth it in their own opinion).
Others have waited 20 years for the right game and now they want to support the creation of such a game.
It's like you're arguing from a perspective where you are trying to develop a competing narrative. In reality, you are saying stupid shit to try and defend your baby. That you would pretend that because I don't know what the economy would be like means that you have any clue is stupid. You made a claim about it that was and is stupid. Bullshit to the max. And it will always be bullshit. You don't know what it is going to be like, so stop pretending that you do.
It's like you're arguing from a perspective where you are trying to develop a competing narrative. In reality, you are saying stupid shit to try and defend your baby. That you would pretend that because I don't know what the economy would be like means that you have any clue is stupid. You made a claim about it that was and is stupid. Bullshit to the max. And it will always be bullshit. You don't know what it is going to be like, so stop pretending that you do.
I guess I don't understand why people are spending so much cash on ships now. If there's no real advantage to having them, and/or you can get them within a short time with in-game cash once the game launches, they why spend hundreds or thousands on them now? Are there really that many whales that are just basically making huge donations to the game?
I played Chris Robert's last game Freelancer. In Freelancer I once 1v5ed people in the same ship with the same value of gear based on nothing but player skill, and won. In Freelancer I sometimes flew a very low class ship with low class weapons that had a very small hitbox and tight turning to fight people using the best ship in the game and won. In Freelancer me and another skilled pilot once 2v1ed someone in the best ship in the game well fitted out with ships and weapons purchased in the starter system, and won.
Star Citizen makes Freelancer look downright easy to play. The skill factor in Star Citizen, is waaaaaaay higher. Somewhat to it's own detriment IMO, Freelancer was as hard to master as any game needs to be, but that should give you an idea of what is possible if you are a highly skilled combatant.
For me, knowing this, I've invested my money primarily in non-combat ships. My most expensive vessel by far is exploration focused, and I also have a trade vessel. Bigger cargo holds are bigger cargo holds. Better tradeships are better. Longer scanner range is a longer scanner range. But don't presume that just because you have bigger guns and thicker armor that you will win. Because bigger guns and thicker armor means you're probably flying a ship that's easier to hit and harder to maneuver.
It's just like in Freelancer. People who don't understand that game will tell you a titan with codename weapons are the strongest ship and guns because they have the highest stats. People like me who can 1v5 people like them will tell you the eagle is actually the best ship because it's smaller and more maneuverable and nomads cannons and blasters are the best weapons because they have better refire rates, and lower energy drain.
But everybody will tell you a Dromedary is the best unmodded trade ship because it has the largest cargo hold.
Because this is a game with an economy I'm sure my better trade vessel and better exploration ship having economic advantages will matter for something.
But if I could give up every asset I have for this game to be 5% better at aiming and maneuvering than I should be as a player, I would. Because that would pay out far better in the long run. If you were to practice hard for a year at getting better at this game I guarantee you everyone logging in with swiper ships for the first time come soft launch will be easy prey for you in any combat ship you have.
You can have your opinion matter without being able to 1v5 people. But if you're throwing around your opinion of how pay-to-win the game is without actually playing it enough to understand how highly skillbased it is, and how little stat based it is, then your opinion certainly doesn't matter.
I think it's a bit early to say how little of a stat based game it will be. We know that there will be various grades of modules, each more powerful/efficient/armoured than the previous, we know there will be overclocking etc and that typically creates quite a disparity from a base ship to a fully modded ship in these sort of games. All part of why it makes pre-purchases more P2W. If the hulls are role based and not a progression path then it will be the modules which form a large part of the progression path.
You can have your opinion matter without being able to 1v5 people. But if you're throwing around your opinion of how pay-to-win the game is without actually playing it enough to understand how highly skillbased it is, and how little stat based it is, then your opinion certainly doesn't matter.
Have you played other flight/space sims?
I find the flying in ED a lot more skillbased than flying in SC. In SC the most important part is keeping your target in your crosshair (which is very easy to do) with minimal effort put in the flying... unless you consider strafing, flying . Which is why people keep referring to SC as FPS in space.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me the Star Citizen equivalent of ED's Isinona.
Minimum crew = 8 Maximum crew = 28 1) The owner will have to have the "in game credits" to pay for enough food for 8 people to 28 people. (being NPC's or players) 2) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the fuel to fly the ship. 3) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the crews wages. 4) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the ammo and missiles to be able to fight any thing. 5) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for any repairs/replacements after a fight. 6) The owner will have to have the reputation with the various factions to get any high paying jobs.
Javelin is just the hull (in the same vain as a real life mothballed Navy ship) so add in the cost of ALL weaponry to the above. Also added crew cost from the expanded crew minimum and maximum.
Watching that chat when I steal your "pay to win" ship and ram it into a UEE Navy Javelin just for shits and giggles by remote piloting.
You can have your opinion matter without being able to 1v5 people. But if you're throwing around your opinion of how pay-to-win the game is without actually playing it enough to understand how highly skillbased it is, and how little stat based it is, then your opinion certainly doesn't matter.
Have you played other flight/space sims?
I find the flying in ED a lot more skillbased than flying in SC. In SC the most important part is keeping your target in your crosshair (which is very easy to do) with minimal effort put in the flying... unless you consider strafing, flying . Which is why people keep referring to SC as FPS in space.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me the Star Citizen equivalent of ED's Isinona.
It would seem ED slightly slipped in some flying mechanics you would only see in an airplane. Imho it definetly makes dogfighting more skillful instead if just being able to face any direction at any speed and have your enemy in your crosshairs.
Also Isinona's videos are awesome. Pro silent running at its finest. He makes me want to play ED. I have yet to see any youtube personality who makes videos that interests me enough to spring for SC at release, let alone in its current state.
Gaming communities (Goons) who have an older community that plays other space sim games (Eve) are already in game (Planning) what they will do if this game goes live.
With the plentiful resources ($$) that this older, very organized, and large player base has they will in no time dominate the game from the onset. Players will surely grab onto the mantra of safety in numbers and the swarm will pretty much determine the pvp. Tends to kill it sadly.
Will it quickly die out to everyone joining the winning side, sadly that has been a trend with pvp and early access.
I don't see those who spend real money for ships joining with those who don't. I see this as an issue for SC and they will either have to piss off the backers who bought ships or piss off everyone who doesn't spend real money on the game (doesn't/didn't buy ships)
Gaming communities (Goons) who have an older community that plays other space sim games (Eve) are already in game (Planning) what they will do if this game goes live.
With the plentiful resources ($$) that this older, very organized, and large player base has they will in no time dominate the game from the onset. Players will surely grab onto the mantra of safety in numbers and the swarm will pretty much determine the pvp. Tends to kill it sadly.
Will it quickly die out to everyone joining the winning side, sadly that has been a trend with pvp and early access.
I don't see those who spend real money for ships joining with those who don't. I see this as an issue for SC and they will either have to piss off the backers who bought ships or piss off everyone who doesn't spend real money on the game (doesn't/didn't buy ships)
CIG said that what you are saying will not happen, the Goon's I know will honor cig's request. surley you see this ?
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Gaming communities (Goons) who have an older community that plays other space sim games (Eve) are already in game (Planning) what they will do if this game goes live.
With the plentiful resources ($$) that this older, very organized, and large player base has they will in no time dominate the game from the onset. Players will surely grab onto the mantra of safety in numbers and the swarm will pretty much determine the pvp. Tends to kill it sadly.
Will it quickly die out to everyone joining the winning side, sadly that has been a trend with pvp and early access.
I don't see those who spend real money for ships joining with those who don't. I see this as an issue for SC and they will either have to piss off the backers who bought ships or piss off everyone who doesn't spend real money on the game (doesn't/didn't buy ships)
CIG said that what you are saying will not happen, the Goon's I know will honor cig's request. surley you see this ?
Gaming communities (Goons) who have an older community that plays other space sim games (Eve) are already in game (Planning) what they will do if this game goes live.
CIG first has to make a game which will be worth playing for Goons. Quite a few of them have gotten refunds and most of them are having too much fun laughing at the development team and some of the crazy members of the SC community to actually care about playing.
We're quite a few years away of resembling anything that would be worthwhile playing let alone having even a fraction of the engaging EvE gameplay.
CIG first has to make a game which will be worth playing for Goons.
I don't think CIG will give into the Goons, most likely to me the Goons will end up banned and deported back to EvE.
The whole CIG approach seems to be of a more moderated world, where even on cases of trolling and grief in-game already saw them laying ban warnings, so they very well just watch and find things to laugh about indeed.
Until it launches you should avoid it, but that's sound advice for any game not yet launch
Companies realize there is alot of money to be made now in pre alpha and alpha to where you don't even have to have a functioning game....Just show off a few things here and there and then charge insane amounts of money for items
CIG first has to make a game which will be worth playing for Goons.
I don't think CIG will give into the Goons, most likely to me the Goons will end up banned and deported back to EvE.
The whole CIG approach seems to be of a more moderated world, where even on cases of trolling and grief in-game already saw them laying ban warnings, so they very well just watch and find things to laugh about, because it likely won't go much past that for them.
One or two goons in alpha isn't anything. Wait till they join in mass when its live. You really think SC is going to interfere with the $$ flowing in. This will be fun to watch.
Comments
Now just imagine those corps who buy up armadas of ships to lend out to friends and corp mates to rule swaths of space. They skip running all the shit missions to buy progressively better and better ships for their given role and just need to run shit missions to build up a money base for the good weapons/cargo.
For some people a large donation is spare change (or worth it in their own opinion).
Others have waited 20 years for the right game and now they want to support the creation of such a game.
Have fun
Thought so.
Have fun
Star Citizen makes Freelancer look downright easy to play. The skill factor in Star Citizen, is waaaaaaay higher. Somewhat to it's own detriment IMO, Freelancer was as hard to master as any game needs to be, but that should give you an idea of what is possible if you are a highly skilled combatant.
For me, knowing this, I've invested my money primarily in non-combat ships. My most expensive vessel by far is exploration focused, and I also have a trade vessel. Bigger cargo holds are bigger cargo holds. Better tradeships are better. Longer scanner range is a longer scanner range. But don't presume that just because you have bigger guns and thicker armor that you will win. Because bigger guns and thicker armor means you're probably flying a ship that's easier to hit and harder to maneuver.
It's just like in Freelancer. People who don't understand that game will tell you a titan with codename weapons are the strongest ship and guns because they have the highest stats. People like me who can 1v5 people like them will tell you the eagle is actually the best ship because it's smaller and more maneuverable and nomads cannons and blasters are the best weapons because they have better refire rates, and lower energy drain.
But everybody will tell you a Dromedary is the best unmodded trade ship because it has the largest cargo hold.
Because this is a game with an economy I'm sure my better trade vessel and better exploration ship having economic advantages will matter for something.
But if I could give up every asset I have for this game to be 5% better at aiming and maneuvering than I should be as a player, I would. Because that would pay out far better in the long run. If you were to practice hard for a year at getting better at this game I guarantee you everyone logging in with swiper ships for the first time come soft launch will be easy prey for you in any combat ship you have.
Not only that, but he is so awesome, he can 1v5 people. What a fucking joke.
He also made money on the grey market by selling ships
But all that doesn't matter because if you can't 1v5 people your opinion doesn't really matter.
..Cake..
We know that there will be various grades of modules, each more powerful/efficient/armoured than the previous, we know there will be overclocking etc and that typically creates quite a disparity from a base ship to a fully modded ship in these sort of games. All part of why it makes pre-purchases more P2W. If the hulls are role based and not a progression path then it will be the modules which form a large part of the progression path.
I find the flying in ED a lot more skillbased than flying in SC.
In SC the most important part is keeping your target in your crosshair (which is very easy to do) with minimal effort put in the flying... unless you consider strafing, flying
Which is why people keep referring to SC as FPS in space.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me the Star Citizen equivalent of ED's Isinona.
..Cake..
IDRIS
Minimum crew = 8
Maximum crew = 28
1) The owner will have to have the "in game credits" to pay for enough food for 8 people to 28 people. (being NPC's or players)
2) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the fuel to fly the ship.
3) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the crews wages.
4) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for the ammo and missiles to be able to fight any thing.
5) The owner will have to have the UEC to pay for any repairs/replacements after a fight.
6) The owner will have to have the reputation with the various factions to get any high paying jobs.
Javelin is just the hull (in the same vain as a real life mothballed Navy ship) so add in the cost of ALL weaponry to the above.
Also added crew cost from the expanded crew minimum and maximum.
Watching that chat when I steal your "pay to win" ship and ram it into a UEE Navy Javelin just for shits and giggles by remote piloting.
Pffft, pay to win, right, good luck with that.
Also Isinona's videos are awesome. Pro silent running at its finest. He makes me want to play ED. I have yet to see any youtube personality who makes videos that interests me enough to spring for SC at release, let alone in its current state.
I'm worried about how much toilet paper is going to be needed ? anyone have any idea ?
MAGA
With the plentiful resources ($$) that this older, very organized, and large player base has they will in no time dominate the game from the onset. Players will surely grab onto the mantra of safety in numbers and the swarm will pretty much determine the pvp. Tends to kill it sadly.
Will it quickly die out to everyone joining the winning side, sadly that has been a trend with pvp and early access.
I don't see those who spend real money for ships joining with those who don't. I see this as an issue for SC and they will either have to piss off the backers who bought ships or piss off everyone who doesn't spend real money on the game (doesn't/didn't buy ships)
CIG said that what you are saying will not happen, the Goon's I know will honor cig's request. surley you see this ?
MAGA
Have fun
Quite a few of them have gotten refunds and most of them are having too much fun laughing at the development team and some of the crazy members of the SC community to actually care about playing.
We're quite a few years away of resembling anything that would be worthwhile playing let alone having even a fraction of the engaging EvE gameplay.
..Cake..
The whole CIG approach seems to be of a more moderated world, where even on cases of trolling and grief in-game already saw them laying ban warnings, so they very well just watch and find things to laugh about indeed.