Faith

Hawkaya399

I got faith in all this. I have for a while. First some background. I played EQ in March 1999, so I was there at the beginning. I came back later and played through the years on live. I retired my main character in 2010. About 2007 I started to wish there was the classic experience. There was a forum thread back then for resurrecting the old game. It was an enormous thread with a couple hundred pages. My argument wasn't simply to play in old zones. The old game mechanics appealed to me. I like games I play to be a struggle. It was very player interdependent. So my argument in the thread was usually something like "It was harder. It was more social. Bring it back." My forum name was naudanyas. My opinion evolved over the years. I even supported the modern game changes for a while, but not for teh same reasons the casuals supported them. But one thing is sure. In early 2010 I quit playing for different reasons--one of them was raid burnout. (I played again in 2014 on live and it was still fun--I'll give it that.) I had been following the eqclassic website and project 1999. I started playing project 1999 in late 2009 or early 2010--I can't remember the exact date. It was not long after they started it up. I was registered on their forum in 2009. I played project 1999 off/on for years. I moved on to Wurm Online and played that for years too, although I did play project 1999 recently and had a blast. My recent experence in project 1999 cemented in me it still has something special, something social. These're not rose tinted glasses.

Despite all our differing opinions, we're all here together. Just like all the people playing project 1999. They have evolving, differing opinions. What's important is they're all have something in common: they're playing on project 1999. So let us remember that before we get caught up in arguments over small things.

I have faith in Pantheon. I know it'll make changes many of us don't like, or many of us do. I know it won't be everything I want it to be. But this is Pantheon. We can't forget that. This isn't any MMORPG> It's Pantheon! Brad McQuaid was here from the start. He's no perfect. Nobody is. I'll confess I watch him like I watch Tom Cruise. I'll watch a Tom Cruise movie and get that "feeling". It brings me back. When I saw that he was behind it, I knew I'd always be coming back to see what's going on. I knew I'd want to play it.

I never played Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Back then I was severely jaded. I watched their forums. I always said it was a sinking ship. Back then I believed the industry was overrun with carebears and casuals. I believed Vanguard would become a carebear just like Everquest. It would do what WoW did. I had no faith. The reality underneath it all was I was bitter, hurt and angry. I couldn't see beyond those feelings. I was blind to all the potential Vanguard might have. I never saw its positives. I only saw the bad things.

I've always liked hard games. Hard MMO's. And PvP. I don't like hand holding or fast experience or the modern MMO features. I really REALLY don't like them.  BUT I accept them. They're a part of gaming. We're all different.

I plan to play Pantheon regardless what it does. I have faith I'll enjoy it. I think this is what 20 years of gaming does. I've been through so many ups and downs. I beleive we should put aside our bitterness or resentments or frustrations, and just concentrate on the SPIRIT of all this. Don't look at individual people or individual features of the game. Don't get caught up in wha'ts immediately in front of you. FEEL. Use your soul. It feels right to me. So I pledge I want to be there when this launches. I'll look past its flaws or my disagreements.

Albatroes

Hawkaya399 said:

I got faith in all this. I have for a while. First some background. I played EQ in March 1999, so I was there at the beginning. I came back later and played through the years on live. I retired my main character in 2010. About 2007 I started to wish there was the classic experience. There was a forum thread back then for resurrecting the old game. My argument wasn't simply to play in old zones. The old game mechanics appealed to me. I like games I play to be a struggle. It was very player interdependent. So my argument in the thread was usually something like "It was harder. It was more social. Bring it back." My forum name was naudanyas. My opinion evolved over the years. I even supported the modern game changes for a while, but not for teh same reasons the casuals supported them. But one thing is sure. In early 2010 I quit playing for different reasons--one of them was raid burnout. I had been following the eqclassic website and project 1999. I started playing project 1999 in late 2009 or early 2010--I can't remember the exact date. It was not long after they started it up. I was registered on their forum in 2009. I played project 1999 off/on for years. I moved on to Wurm Online and played that for years too, although I did play project 1999 recently and had a blast. Playing project 1999 recently cemented in me the old game still shines. It still has something special. Something social.

Despite all our differing opinions, we're all here together. Just like all the people playing project 1999. They have evolving, differing opinions. What's important is they're all have something in common: they're playing on project 1999. So let us remember that before we get caught up in arguments over small things.

I have faith in Pantheon. I know it'll make changes many of us don't like, or many of us do. I know it won't be everything I want it to be. But this is Pantheon. We can't forget that. This isn't any MMORPG> It's Pantheon! Brad McQuaid was here from the start. He's no perfect. Nobody is. I'll confess I watch him like I watch Tom Cruise. I'll watch a Tom Cruise movie and get that "feeling". It brings me back. When I saw that he was behind it, I knew I'd always be coming back to see what's going on. I knew I'd want to play it.

I never played Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Back then I was severely jaded. I watched their forums. I always said it was a sinking ship. Back then I believed the industry was overrun with carebears and casuals. I believed Vanguard would become a carebear just like Everquest. It would do what WoW did. I had no faith. The reality underneath it all was I was bitter, hurt and angry. I couldn't see beyond those things. I was blind to all the potential Vanguard might have had. I never saw its positives. I only saw the bad things.

I've always liked hard games. Hard MMO's. And PvP. I don't like hand holding or fast experience or the modern MMO features. I really REALLY don't like them.  BUT I accept them. They're a part of gaming. We're all different.

I plan to play Pantheon regardless what it does. I have faith I'll enjoy it. I think this is what 20 years of gaming does. I've been through so many ups and downs. I beleive we should put aside our bitterness or resentments or frustrations, and just concentrate on the SPIRIT of all this. Don't look at individual people or individual features of the game. Don't get caught up in wha'ts immediately in front of you. FEEL. Use your soul. It feels right to me. So I pledge I want to be there when this launches. I'll look past its flaws or my disagreements.

Devs/publishers are supposed to sell you a product, not faith in one. If you want to be sold faith, there's religion for that.

Hawkaya399

DMKano I've lived my life that way I wasn't happy with it. I'm not blind. I see something here. Is it faith? I think it's. You be the judge.

Off to work now.

Kajidourden

I backed it and I'm still pretty sure it's going to flop *shrug*

delete5230

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

delete5230

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I do say they should pick up the pace actually a lot, if their planning on anyone playing it.  

4 rooms an hour ?

Wizardry

Well @op..

I am sorry but being an original EQ player,i feel you are sort of biased towards another EQ resurrection.
I played what i would call a MUCH better version of EQ>>FFXI,so i don't want another EQ or even a lesser FFXi,i want something bigger and bolder.

There are a LOT of mmorpg designs that are good on paper but never implemented that well.I seek a game that takes good ideas from any era,past or present although have seen VERY few good present days ideas and makes them BETTER.

If i just wanted another EQ or FFXI,i would simply play either or and not some clone trying to resurrect the past.
I am not going to write an essay on how to design each and every system but i do look at everything a game does from the first minute i step into it or even looking at videos of game play.

I can sum it up by saying ALL of the EQ series has a lot of flaws in their designs,good on paper but again not implemented well or lacking in depth.I said i won't go into each and every detail,so i'll leave it at that,Pantheon has to be MUCH better than EQ to give me any encouragement.

Gyva02

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

Sovrath

Gyva02 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

hmmm, well "some".

But a very small minority.

LackingMMO

I remember people saying dark souls/demon souls would not be popular or successful because of the difficulty and the slow combat. Game just tanked so hard

Wellspring

LackingMMO said:

I remember people saying dark souls/demon souls would not be popular or successful because of the difficulty and the slow combat. Game just tanked so hard

DarkSouls combat is not slow... certainly not in MMO standards. 

Theocritus

From what I have seen it just looks like a reskinning of EQ1...Thats not really a bad thing but it isn't anything new.

Gyva02

Theocritus said:

From what I have seen it just looks like a reskinning of EQ1...Thats not really a bad thing but it isn't anything new.

It's going to be brand new to the newer generation that never got to play Classic EQ

acidblood

Gyva02 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

Agreed... I never played EQ, but I am interested in a slower paced (read: can play for years before hitting the 'end-game'), challenging, social centric MMO with interesting and meaningful class designs; and Pantheon may just deliver that.

It's still a big IF at this point though, as they could easily screw it up in any number of ways... the main one, IMO, being overly strict requirements on group size and composition to make any sort of progress.

Amathe

I share the OP's faith that this game will be made, and that a sufficient number of people will like it that it will be financially viable. 

Theocritus

Gyva02 said:

Theocritus said:

From what I have seen it just looks like a reskinning of EQ1...Thats not really a bad thing but it isn't anything new.

It's going to be brand new to the newer generation that never got to play Classic EQ

True but I am not sure this style of play will appeal to that market.

Mendel

Theocritus said:

Gyva02 said:

Theocritus said:

From what I have seen it just looks like a reskinning of EQ1...Thats not really a bad thing but it isn't anything new.

It's going to be brand new to the newer generation that never got to play Classic EQ

True but I am not sure this style of play will appeal to that market.

Very likely, in my opinion.  The 'modern' player seems to be more interested in "fast and quick", and most products post-2010 seem to cater to that style.  I don't doubt that the "slow and deliberate" style of play will attract the older crowd of EQ1 veterans;  I'm just unsure that the old crowd is large enough to sustain a game anymore.

As I've said before, I'm glad it's not my money riding on this gamble.

Octagon7711

Faith is marketing's job. 

Jawbreaker23

Sovrath said:

Gyva02 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

hmmm, well "some".

But a very small minority.

There is a whole generation of WoW kids that want to prove to themselves that they could have even made it to level cap in an unforgiving world. They want to experience the moments that galvanize reputations, that spawn lifelong friendships and that create lasting memories. Few people even remember their first kill of a mythic boss in WoW, but everyone remembers that first epic experience in EQ where it should have been a wipe, but somehow you made it out alive. 

Kyleran

Jawbreaker23 said:

Sovrath said:

Gyva02 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

hmmm, well "some".

But a very small minority.

There is a whole generation of WoW kids that want to prove to themselves that they could have even made it to level cap in an unforgiving world. They want to experience the moments that galvanize reputations, that spawn lifelong friendships and that create lasting memories. Few people even remember their first kill of a mythic boss in WoW, but everyone remembers that first epic experience in EQ where it should have been a wipe, but somehow you made it out alive. 

Sorry,  but the ship to Valinor sailed a long time ago, and they aren't coming back.

Wenchesnmead

Kyleran said:

Sorry,  but the ship to Valinor sailed a long time ago, and they aren't coming back.

Just reading this comment brought the biggest smile to my face. It is so spot on to how I feel whenever someone uses the argument there are these young huddled masses of underground players thirsty for what they missed out on EQ and Vanilla WOW and DAOC, etc. 

When in truth gaming has changed drastically in the past few years, let alone the last 20 years.

The fact is gaming has gone largely mobile with easy to pick up fast games you don't have to spend time on.

That has also transitioned to desktop gaming where games like PUBG and LOL offer players a quick game to hop into. Play. Lose. Win. Whatever. But there's no need for a commitment unless you want to be a streamer. Pro player etc.

But largely gaming has shifted away from games like this and that's my great concern for the future of this game. 

I love the old school look and feel but it doesn't add anything, from what I have seen, as new from anything we haven't already experienced years ago from the above-mentioned games.

SO if it's just a copy of EQ whats the appeal for me to play? I'm not sure. I loved my time in EQ, in Vanilla WOW and DAOC and even Vanguard. But that ship sailed a long time ago because the experience grew stale and a rehash of those same stale mechanics I do not see being a huge draw for a large number of new blood. Not even to most fossils like me.

My other concern is the forced grouping. For me running dungeons and grouping are my favorite experiences. But there is also a large portion of the niche player base this game is aimed at that really don't enjoy grouping and just want to solo grind and craft and etc. Which is totally awesome too. 

But when a niche game for a niche audience may also be segmenting that small audience even further I don't see this or any other "old school" MMORPG game ever being viable longterm than that the few hundred players that each game will have.

I wish the best for the game, but I don't expect much and don't see why I would have faith in any of this game or any like them succeeding longterm.

Hawkaya399

Thanks everybody for commenting. I don't agree with everyone, but we all deserve to have an opinion. There's no real wrong or right here, I think. This is why some arguments never end because we're always trying to determine the rightness when we'd be better off just letting it be. Life is too short to spend it frustrated.

Dyanu

This game will appeal to those that do not want something "To beat" within the first few weeks of the game coming out. Also those who want a more social interaction between people because all I am seeing in the Devolved games are quick solo content where you don't even need to talk to one another, much less form meaningful guilds and the rep with the world. I have personally heard many who want a game like Pantheon but are reluctant to have faith in one. I put a lot of my time,faith and hope in EQNext, hoping it would pan out to be the next generation of gaming, only to have the devs come out and say " oh sorry we didn't find it fun to play (even though they had years of fun play with it before), so we just made that judgement for all of you." Which I didn't believe at all.  So every time there is a promise of a new better game out there it is easier to say it will not pan out then to have faith it will.  But I still have hope that someone will develop a game that will live up to a part of my expectations.

MrMelGibson

I'm rooting for this game.  I hope it launches.  But you're delusional if you think it will be the next big game or mmo.  The only thing that will reinvigorate the mmorpg genre is something completely new.  The same way others have redefined themselves.  A good example is Super Mario 64.  It took platformers from 2D to 3D.  Completely changing them forever.  I don't know what that massive change will be, but it won't be Pantheon. 

This mmo will do well in it's niche.  But if you're expecting more, you should definitively temper your expectations.  You're only setting yourself up for disappointment. 

MrMelGibson

Jawbreaker23 said:

Sovrath said:

Gyva02 said:

DMKano said:

delete5230 said:

I think Pantheon will pick up huge in popularity when it's a few months before release. 
Thing is, that could be a long time. 

Be honest, I think it already is, but it still has a few years......... Add that a lot of civilians outside this site haven't got wind yet.

"huge popularity" - no, not a chance.

Even for twitch streamers to pick this up - the gamplay is far too slow to be watchable by masses.

In time you kill 5 mobs in pantheon, you could watch an entire round of Fortnite or Overwatch.

Pantheon is aimed at a small EQ1 veteran playerbase from near 2 decades ago - dinaosaurs by todays standards.

I think there's a good chance the newer generation will see how rewarding a tuff, social and interdependent game can really be and Pantheon might just be the reason for a young "dinosaur" revival...  

hmmm, well "some".

But a very small minority.

There is a whole generation of WoW kids that want to prove to themselves that they could have even made it to level cap in an unforgiving world. They want to experience the moments that galvanize reputations, that spawn lifelong friendships and that create lasting memories. Few people even remember their first kill of a mythic boss in WoW, but everyone remembers that first epic experience in EQ where it should have been a wipe, but somehow you made it out alive. 

No, there really isn't.  If there was, P99 and classic EQ servers would be stuffed to the gills.  But it's a nice fantasy.