Honestly, given how many people play MMOs like single-player or very small group games, why not include all kinds of games that can have 100 or so per server in them? Survival games do. Battle royale games do. Even lobby-based games do. The lines have blurred hugely.
I dunno. I like both reading about and covering all kinds of games. We've kept the scope here pretty narrow, tbh.
And, once again, it's adapt or die. We're trying to expand the categories on the Games List and on the featurette slider images by labeling them as what they are.
Exactly. You see people QQ'ing about how mmorpgs aren't massive enough or the world is empty yada yada and then moments later when a new one is announced, its always "will it be solo friendly???" Like wtf....
Let's face it most MMO related sites can't tell the difference between multiplayer and massively multiplayer.
..or they just quit making a difference between the two.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Honestly, given how many people play MMOs like single-player or very small group games, why not include all kinds of games that can have 100 or so per server in them? Survival games do. Battle royale games do. Even lobby-based games do. The lines have blurred hugely.
I dunno. I like both reading about and covering all kinds of games. We've kept the scope here pretty narrow, tbh.
And, once again, it's adapt or die. We're trying to expand the categories on the Games List and on the featurette slider images by labeling them as what they are.
Exactly. You see people QQ'ing about how mmorpgs aren't massive enough or the world is empty yada yada and then moments later when a new one is announced, its always "will it be solo friendly???" Like wtf....
Just because people are complaining about mmorpgs doesn't mean crap when we're talking about proper categorization of games. Let's say you went to a bookstore that has all the books categorized in different sections based on genre and adult rated ones. You go there with your son to the kids section and find a playboy magazine. Not just one on accident but an entire shelf dedicated to playboy right in the kids section, a reasonable person would be upset at that.
Playboy isn't a kids book just like Destiny 2 isn't an MMO. Most people on this website don't give a crap that mmorpg.com chooses to feature these non mmo's(note i said most people), but a lot of us do dislike when they mislabel a game as in the case of OP.
To me, i'd rather they just left the "category" section on the game list for those games blank if they need time to code a new category(s) for these games. That way least they aren't blatantly falsely categorizing these games as mmorpgs.
Oh and if you want this to go away you should make a "100% verified MMORPG list"
Even something like,
Game Name:
Server Capacity:
Then not have anything under 100 for example.
Can I do a search like that on your game list? No.
Heck the programmer in me says let the user dictate the search and supply the value for the server capacity.
If I had the time I would go through the entire game list on this site and add the server capacity value to all the games.
Then if you consider *cough not a MMO* 10 people a massive amount you could search that way and I could search for 100+ and Kyleran could search for 500+, win, win, win.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
What I learned today is that you guys have a sister site and it looks like it focuses more on mobile games than this one so I am going to start visiting that one for sure. Also, yes, it wouldn't take much effort to reorganize the categories to make the minority of people who it bothers, happy again. But I would rather they continue to keep up with all the news they have been. If one of their guys wants to take on the list as a side project, cool, but the focus needs to continue to be on gaming news, period.
The poll would work better if you put it in a strawpoll on destiny 2 forums (or/and subreddit). And not the MMORPG.com or /r/MMORPG reddits. Both places are (mostly) a bunch of old timer MMOers who want the good old days. Same exact people who are a certain group of people who like an orange skinned person from planet reptilian disguised as a human, and they can't keep up with the modern times and want the old times back.
They don't want things to evolve, change or be modern, they want to be stuck in the past playing "oldschool" MMOs because they can't adapt to new games.
Luckily they'll be left in the dust and in a decade or two, they'll be gone and unseen and the new MMO fans can take their place.
But go to most game forums/sites or game itself, and people find games like destiny 2 an MMO. Only the sites that the old timer MMO fans go to for the most part disagree with it.
Most gaming sites even label destiny 2 (among others) as an MMO...not just MMORPG, but massively and other countless gaming sites too, count many games as an MMO.
The point of fallout 1/2 to fallout 4 is the genre changes, gotta adapt or be stuck in the past and left to suffer and complain about "my poor old MMOs" as the new generation gamers take the place of the oldtimers.
MMOs used to be a niche dead hobby, it needed to change and adapt to the new generation for success. And only some old developers are trying to bring the oldschool MMOs back, and they are far more likely to be as niche as they were decades ago.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
What I learned today is that you guys have a sister site and it looks like it focuses more on mobile games than this one so I am going to start visiting that one for sure. Also, yes, it wouldn't take much effort to reorganize the categories to make the minority of people who it bothers, happy again. But I would rather they continue to keep up with all the news they have been. If one of their guys wants to take on the list as a side project, cool, but the focus needs to continue to be on gaming news, period.
Why do so many of you keep saying stuff like this? Why can't they do both? Keep up with news AND actually categorize games as they are?? They already do it for ARPGs like D3 and PoE. Why can they not for Destiny 2 and others?
The poll would work better if you put it in a strawpoll on destiny 2 forums (or/and subreddit). And not the MMORPG.com or /r/MMORPG reddits. Both places are (mostly) a bunch of old timer MMOers who want the good old days. Same exact people who are a certain group of people who like an orange skinned person from planet reptilian disguised as a human, and they can't keep up with the modern times and want the old times back.
They don't want things to evolve, change or be modern, they want to be stuck in the past playing "oldschool" MMOs because they can't adapt to new games.
Luckily they'll be left in the dust and in a decade or two, they'll be gone and unseen and the new MMO fans can take their place.
But go to most game forums/sites or game itself, and people find games like destiny 2 an MMO. Only the sites that the old timer MMO fans go to for the most part disagree with it.
Most gaming sites even label destiny 2 (among others) as an MMO...not just MMORPG, but massively and other countless gaming sites too, count many games as an MMO.
The point of fallout 1/2 to fallout 4 is the genre changes, gotta adapt or be stuck in the past and left to suffer and complain about "my poor old MMOs" as the new generation gamers take the place of the oldtimers.
MMOs used to be a niche dead hobby, it needed to change and adapt to the new generation for success. And only some old developers are trying to bring the oldschool MMOs back, and they are far more likely to be as niche as they were decades ago.
The definition of MMO has jackshit to do with not wanting the genre to change. The logic of calling Destiny 2 an mmorpg is like calling Stardew Valley an mmorpg once the co-op patch is finished.
I'll leave the thread as this last post here....cause this topic is boring after the 5000th time
Oldschool old person MMO fans will get a few MMOs to choose from that are in early access, hopefully its good for them
I myself look forward to a decade or two when those oldschool fans die out or/and vastly outnumbered by the new MMO supporters and I get a ton of awesome and enjoyable NEW and innovative MMOs to choose from. Instead of the MMOs stuck in the past and unable to move forward or come up with innovative features instead of "its like 1999 again! LOLOL"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
What I learned today is that you guys have a sister site and it looks like it focuses more on mobile games than this one so I am going to start visiting that one for sure. Also, yes, it wouldn't take much effort to reorganize the categories to make the minority of people who it bothers, happy again. But I would rather they continue to keep up with all the news they have been. If one of their guys wants to take on the list as a side project, cool, but the focus needs to continue to be on gaming news, period.
Why do so many of you keep saying stuff like this? Why can't they do both? Keep up with news AND actually categorize games as they are?? They already do it for ARPGs like D3 and PoE. Why can they not for Destiny 2 and others?
Because maybe their time is better spent adding new games to the list and hunting down news from all over the web than going back and working on old games? Plus, after they go back and make changes the next flavor the of week will be complaining about the next set of categories. I think if you can't figure out what an MMO actually is and you are downloading and buying games based on a category off of one MMO site there might be a bigger issue here. Seems cool? Do your research on it from all over and then decide if its worth taking a look at. There will always be something to complain about.
The term mmorpg is so screwed up now that i give up trying to sort it out. I refuse to call most of the games that sites like this one or developers try to pass off as mmo's. To me those games are for people that are clueless about what an mmo really is. I refuse to call any lobby based game an mmo.
What I learned today is that you guys have a sister site and it looks like it focuses more on mobile games than this one so I am going to start visiting that one for sure. Also, yes, it wouldn't take much effort to reorganize the categories to make the minority of people who it bothers, happy again. But I would rather they continue to keep up with all the news they have been. If one of their guys wants to take on the list as a side project, cool, but the focus needs to continue to be on gaming news, period.
Why do so many of you keep saying stuff like this? Why can't they do both? Keep up with news AND actually categorize games as they are?? They already do it for ARPGs like D3 and PoE. Why can they not for Destiny 2 and others?
Because maybe their time is better spent adding new games to the list and hunting down news from all over the web than going back and working on old games? Plus, after they go back and make changes the next flavor the of week will be complaining about the next set of categories. I think if you can't figure out what an MMO actually is and you are downloading and buying games based on a category off of one MMO site there might be a bigger issue here. Seems cool? Do your research on it from all over and then decide if its worth taking a look at. There will always be something to complain about.
What am i missing here? Does it take 10 hours to make 1 extra category? Does it take 10 hours to just do a few backspace strokes? Half their news content is found by the members of the forums in the first place and they just add it to the newstream. I'm not really one to admonish the work people do behind the scenes, but to just give a lazy excuse of "maybe their time is better spent adding new games to the list" is just bs.
If they directly answered legitimate responses instead of only answering the crazies then i wouldn't really care to post about this topic all that much, but the only posts SBFord really answers are the crazies.
OP was not asking why MMORPG.com features non mmo's(crazies do that). OP was talking about the non-mmo's on the game list that are labeled as what they are like ARPGs(crazies do that). SBFord didn't address any of the issues/concerns OP had and just wrote it off like he was one of the crazies that always make those posts about why MMORPG.com features non-mmo's.
This is what i mean. They blatantly ignore a reasonable person's comments on the topic and only respond about the dumb outliers that don't understand mmorpg.com has to broaden their news to remain as a functional website. Again, OP is not one of those people.
I think MORPG just isn't a popular term. So people just call their games(for example vindictus) MMORPG.
I presume people start calling games like destiny MMOFPS. Because it isn't your typical shooter.
I dont' personal care. The topic just isn't important.
I think you're right. You can't imagine how many times we send out forms to the devs to fill out for inclusion on the list and they don't want to use the classification of "MMORPG". They want their game to be seen as broader than the narrow definition of what an MMORPG is in its classic sense.
MMOs have changed and evolved to the point that most are unrecognizable by 1999's standards with more ways to play alone or in very small groups. I, for one, don't think that's a bad thing, but it certainly changes the "traditional" definition of what an MMO is.
Probably MOG is the more correct term these days.
I dunno though....I trust that most people are wise enough to determine what fits their personal definition of what an MMO is and don't rely on what's on this list or any other and can critically think for themselves. *shrugs*
I think MORPG just isn't a popular term. So people just call their games(for example vindictus) MMORPG.
I presume people start calling games like destiny MMOFPS. Because it isn't your typical shooter.
I dont' personal care. The topic just isn't important.
Probably MOG is the more correct term these days.
I dunno though....I trust that most people are wise enough to determine what fits their personal definition of what an MMO is and don't rely on what's on this list or any other and can critically think for themselves. *shrugs*
It's honestly not about depending on your list or not having critical thinking. It's about having items within a category be what they actually are.
If you're in a bookstore and you go to the fantasy section and end up picking up a book to read but the book turned out to be some boring autobiography, well that's an annoying experience to have to deal with. If categories had no meaning, then having to sift through books to find the genre you like would be a nightmare.
I agree wholeheartedly, MOG would be a nice term to fit these games. Or even MORPG/MOFPS if you wanted, but you have the right idea in dropping the first M which is all that really needs to happen.
I somewhat disagree on your other point that MMOs have "drastically changed" since 1999 though....So funny story. I was typing out why I think that and i was looking at how long it was making this already somewhat lengthy post. I think i'll post my thoughts on that topic in a thread of its own and end this here.
I think they should just change the wording of mmorpg instead of changing definitions. Any game that has a discussion about cash shops and whether its p2w/p2a/p4c should all be called massively monetized online role-playing game, mmorpg for short.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I think they should just change the wording of mmorpg instead of changing definitions. Any game that has a discussion about cash shops and whether its p2w/p2a/p4c should all be called massively monetized online role-playing game, mmorpg for short.
But what would you call a minimally multiplayer but massively monetized role playing game? Oh wait, there's already a name for that: game as a service or GAAS for short.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
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We are a brand now. For us, it's not as simple as sticking to the old definition of what an MMORPG is since it's evolving and changing and so are we. It's not as if we can just drop the URL and not lose our brand name. Most tissues aren't Kleenex and most bandages aren't Bandaids, but that's what they are.
On the games list, we have clear categories that can sort the list by what type(s) of games you want to see.
The bottom line is: We adapt or we die.
*pulls out tired wrinkled paper*
We cover a lot of games here at MMORPG.com. We cover as much MMORPG news as we can but we have expanded coverage to fit in with the evolving nature of what online gaming is and, frankly, to pay the bills.
*folds the paper, stuffs it back into her pocket until next week*
Hey SBFord,
I understand that you guys need to adapt and get more games coverage because sadly, sometimes there's not much going on in the MMO world. I get it. We get it. That's fine with most of us I guess...
But like one person mentioned in this thread - why just not cut an "M", and call them MORPGs, or MOwhatever? That's more in ground with reality.
This has nothing to do with your survival or with the antique lizardmen from 1999 that played MMOs in the old days... it's just that you're putting wrong labels on games.
You guys do understand that some people come to MMORPG.com for knowledge, yes? And that younger people who have not experienced any real MMOs will just take your word for it. Oh look... so many MMOs!!!
When FIFA or Call of Duty implement player lobbies, will you call those MMOs as well? Just think carefully about it... you're slowly blurring the lines of the term "MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online)" until it will lose it's identity completely.
I love MMOs. You guys love MMOs. I know many of us are still waiting for one such game that will come and save us all...
It will come - eventually! So all I'm asking is to keep the term for the genre alive as it should be, so that one day we can all experience something massive together!
Personally I think in our brains as gamers the sound we make when we say MMO (ememoh) triggers thoughts of online games with some sort of persistence in world and/or characters. I think I'll stop talking about MMOs and start talking about Ememohs. "MMO" was a marketing ploy to advertise a game that had a massive amount of people compared to the previous generation of games that only had a few people in them. "Massive" is just a vague adjective for "large in scope". Large in comparison to what?
In a world where technology allows thousands of players to congregate, wouldn't a game have to have millions of players to be considered massive now? Anything else is just an online game. I don't think we need to use "Massive" anymore in describing games.
Anyways... begin count-down until next Ememoh labeling debate begins.
You mean like the way they innovated themselves into massively single player online games that we have to debate about on topics much like this one, or the way they innovated themselves right out of existence? To innovate is to do something new, in no way does that mean that it's improving upon something. It's innovative to flush a toilet with your face, it's innovative to eat Tide pods, and with all of this 'innovation' going on it will soon be innovating to not innovate.
Wait what?
Yes, "to innovate" is to do something new but that "new" is to improve something or improve a process.
So yes, it means it's improving on "something". That could be to take a current solution and make it better or it could mean an entirely new solution to an already existing "problem", item, "whatever".
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Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
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https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/467916/is-destiny-2-an-mmo-poll/p1
I rest my case
Playboy isn't a kids book just like Destiny 2 isn't an MMO. Most people on this website don't give a crap that mmorpg.com chooses to feature these non mmo's(note i said most people), but a lot of us do dislike when they mislabel a game as in the case of OP.
To me, i'd rather they just left the "category" section on the game list for those games blank if they need time to code a new category(s) for these games. That way least they aren't blatantly falsely categorizing these games as mmorpgs.
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Even something like,
Game Name:
Server Capacity:
Then not have anything under 100 for example.
Can I do a search like that on your game list? No.
Heck the programmer in me says let the user dictate the search and supply the value for the server capacity.
If I had the time I would go through the entire game list on this site and add the server capacity value to all the games.
Then if you consider *cough not a MMO* 10 people a massive amount you could search that way and I could search for 100+ and Kyleran could search for 500+, win, win, win.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/They don't want things to evolve, change or be modern, they want to be stuck in the past playing "oldschool" MMOs because they can't adapt to new games.
Luckily they'll be left in the dust and in a decade or two, they'll be gone and unseen and the new MMO fans can take their place.
But go to most game forums/sites or game itself, and people find games like destiny 2 an MMO. Only the sites that the old timer MMO fans go to for the most part disagree with it.
Most gaming sites even label destiny 2 (among others) as an MMO...not just MMORPG, but massively and other countless gaming sites too, count many games as an MMO.
The point of fallout 1/2 to fallout 4 is the genre changes, gotta adapt or be stuck in the past and left to suffer and complain about "my poor old MMOs" as the new generation gamers take the place of the oldtimers.
MMOs used to be a niche dead hobby, it needed to change and adapt to the new generation for success. And only some old developers are trying to bring the oldschool MMOs back, and they are far more likely to be as niche as they were decades ago.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Oldschool old person MMO fans will get a few MMOs to choose from that are in early access, hopefully its good for them
I myself look forward to a decade or two when those oldschool fans die out or/and vastly outnumbered by the new MMO supporters and I get a ton of awesome and enjoyable NEW and innovative MMOs to choose from. Instead of the MMOs stuck in the past and unable to move forward or come up with innovative features instead of "its like 1999 again! LOLOL"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I presume people start calling games like destiny MMOFPS. Because it isn't your typical shooter.
I dont' personal care. The topic just isn't important.
If they directly answered legitimate responses instead of only answering the crazies then i wouldn't really care to post about this topic all that much, but the only posts SBFord really answers are the crazies.
OP was not asking why MMORPG.com features non mmo's(crazies do that). OP was talking about the non-mmo's on the game list that are labeled as what they are like ARPGs(crazies do that). SBFord didn't address any of the issues/concerns OP had and just wrote it off like he was one of the crazies that always make those posts about why MMORPG.com features non-mmo's.
This is what i mean. They blatantly ignore a reasonable person's comments on the topic and only respond about the dumb outliers that don't understand mmorpg.com has to broaden their news to remain as a functional website. Again, OP is not one of those people.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
MMOs have changed and evolved to the point that most are unrecognizable by 1999's standards with more ways to play alone or in very small groups. I, for one, don't think that's a bad thing, but it certainly changes the "traditional" definition of what an MMO is.
Probably MOG is the more correct term these days.
I dunno though....I trust that most people are wise enough to determine what fits their personal definition of what an MMO is and don't rely on what's on this list or any other and can critically think for themselves. *shrugs*
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're in a bookstore and you go to the fantasy section and end up picking up a book to read but the book turned out to be some boring autobiography, well that's an annoying experience to have to deal with. If categories had no meaning, then having to sift through books to find the genre you like would be a nightmare.
I agree wholeheartedly, MOG would be a nice term to fit these games. Or even MORPG/MOFPS if you wanted, but you have the right idea in dropping the first M which is all that really needs to happen.
I somewhat disagree on your other point that MMOs have "drastically changed" since 1999 though....So funny story. I was typing out why I think that and i was looking at how long it was making this already somewhat lengthy post. I think i'll post my thoughts on that topic in a thread of its own and end this here.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Still the same result, mislabeling, and people saying that's not a MMO.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Hey SBFord,
I understand that you guys need to adapt and get more games coverage because sadly, sometimes there's not much going on in the MMO world. I get it. We get it. That's fine with most of us I guess...
But like one person mentioned in this thread - why just not cut an "M", and call them MORPGs, or MOwhatever? That's more in ground with reality.
This has nothing to do with your survival or with the antique lizardmen from 1999 that played MMOs in the old days... it's just that you're putting wrong labels on games.
You guys do understand that some people come to MMORPG.com for knowledge, yes? And that younger people who have not experienced any real MMOs will just take your word for it. Oh look... so many MMOs!!!
When FIFA or Call of Duty implement player lobbies, will you call those MMOs as well? Just think carefully about it... you're slowly blurring the lines of the term "MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online)" until it will lose it's identity completely.
I love MMOs. You guys love MMOs. I know many of us are still waiting for one such game that will come and save us all...
It will come - eventually! So all I'm asking is to keep the term for the genre alive as it should be, so that one day we can all experience something massive together!
Something like this...
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
In a world where technology allows thousands of players to congregate, wouldn't a game have to have millions of players to be considered massive now? Anything else is just an online game. I don't think we need to use "Massive" anymore in describing games.
Anyways... begin count-down until next Ememoh labeling debate begins.
Yes, "to innovate" is to do something new but that "new" is to improve something or improve a process.
So yes, it means it's improving on "something". That could be to take a current solution and make it better or it could mean an entirely new solution to an already existing "problem", item, "whatever".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo