The game bored me and the core loop is one dimensional. You craft to get an edge in pvp. There isn't much to it beyond that.
It's why Albion is struggling so much too in my opinion. A lot of people like some sort of conflictual or contested gameplay. Studios have seemingly taken that to its absurd degree and concluded that's all people want.
The OP asked the wrong question. The right question is why should I talk about it? There has been nothing mentioned in the thread that would make me want to.
Without a conflict there is no cooperation. You will cooperate for what? You are in conflict in the most games, just the conflict with the mobs is lame, as the win is guaranteed. The only reason you do not like the conflict with players is because you could lose, so to blame competition for anything is absurd - it is not game issue, but your problem
You play too easy of MMOs if PVE is a guaranteed win
Lets get real here for a second. The fact nobody clears the mythic raids for the first few months of each expansion is proof of the reason nobody clears it.
In order to clear a mythic raid, you need a raid full of people with the good drops from the lower level raids. AKA, you need to grind up to the point it can be done.
Grind =/= Challenge
The fact that most people don't have the time to grind the absolute best gear each expansion just to have the gearcap raised when the next expansion comes doesn't mean that the reason they didn't achieve that gear was that it was too challenging, it's because they didn't have the time.
Pretending you have achieved some challenge other people are incapable of because you devoted more time to that grind based challenge than other people is like a ditch digger standing out in the street yelling through a window at a researcher working on the cure for HIV "Hah! I am better than you! I dug a ditch larger than you have ever dug before!"
No, you devoted more time to a menial task mostly everyone is capable of achieving given time.
From the reviews I gathered you work hard gathering mats and building your ship only for some griefer asshat to destroy it because he felt like it. No repercussions. Zero chance for you to escape or beat the dude that has been playing longer than you. Typical meaningless FFA PvP trash.
You forgot the part where they take advantage of glitches and exploit bugs to do so, and the developers don't give a sh*t.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Lets get real here for a second. The fact nobody clears the mythic raids for the first few months of each expansion is proof of the reason nobody clears it.
In order to clear a mythic raid, you need a raid full of people with the good drops from the lower level raids. AKA, you need to grind up to the point it can be done.
Grind =/= Challenge
The fact that most people don't have the time to grind the absolute best gear each expansion just to have the gearcap raised when the next expansion comes doesn't mean that the reason they didn't achieve that gear was that it was too challenging, it's because they didn't have the time.
Pretending you have achieved some challenge other people are incapable of because you devoted more time to that grind based challenge than other people is like a ditch digger standing out in the street yelling through a window at a researcher working on the cure for HIV "Hah! I am better than you! I dug a ditch larger than you have ever dug before!"
No, you devoted more time to a menial task mostly everyone is capable of achieving given time.
If you think you need the best gear to do mythic raids then you obviously have never done a mythic raid in wow. So many people just seem to love talking about shit they've never experienced these days it's laughable.
If you're gonna shit on WoW, then show some fucking proof you know what you're talking about, otherwise shut up. When talking about opinionated things, talk to your hearts content, but when talking about things that can be factually proven incorrect...you should just keep your mouth closed lest you make yourself look ignorant.
Gear in mythic helps to an extent of course. But no amount of gear will carry a raid team to victory in mythic raids. Mechanics > gear. The only thing gear helps in mythic raids is increase the amount of fuckups your raid group can handle.
Gear in mythic helps to an extent of course. But no amount of gear will carry a raid team to victory in mythic raids. Mechanics > gear. The only thing gear helps in mythic raids is increase the amount of fuckups your raid group can handle.
In other words, the more gear, the less challenging.
Compare this to say, an FPS with no character stats that releases new missions periodically. If someone is playing through all these missions at the highest difficulty setting, how long do you think it will take them to complete each mission as it's released? Hours probably. Days at most.
Yet in a game like WoW, nobody completes it for a prolonged period of time and then all of a sudden many groups start completing it. Why do you think this is?
You are using completion rate as a way of stating difficulty. Therefore it's very fair to make the assessment that more people are precluded from completion by gear, than by difficulty.
While I do not agree there is no challenge in an PVE (Many old NES games prove this idea false as well as a rare few titles today who's highest difficulty settings are actually difficult) I think the idea that only a small percentage of players completing raids is a measure of their difficulty is a vain, ignorant, and laughable idea on the part of no-lifer raider elitists.
Gear in mythic helps to an extent of course. But no amount of gear will carry a raid team to victory in mythic raids. Mechanics > gear. The only thing gear helps in mythic raids is increase the amount of fuckups your raid group can handle.
In other words, the more gear, the less challenging.
Compare this to say, an FPS with no character stats that releases new missions periodically. If someone is playing through all these missions at the highest difficulty setting, how long do you think it will take them to complete each mission as it's released? Hours probably. Days at most.
Yet in a game like WoW, nobody completes it for a prolonged period of time and then all of a sudden many groups start completing it. Why do you think this is?
You are using completion rate as a way of stating difficulty. Therefore it's very fair to make the assessment that more people are precluded from completion by gear, than by difficulty.
While I do not agree there is no challenge in an PVE (Many old NES games prove this idea false as well as a rare few titles today who's highest difficulty settings are actually difficult) I think the idea that only a small percentage of players completing raids is a measure of their difficulty is a vain, ignorant, and laughable idea on the part of no-lifer raider elitists.
You keep saying that people are precluded from doing mythics because of gear and i keep saying that is not the case. The gear required to do mythic raids is not what holds people back from getting mythic kills. It's probably the stupidest thing i've heard all week that someone has said.
I'm not solely using completion rate as a way of stating difficulty. I'm using actual experience as a way of stating difficulty. The person bringing up Antharas from L2 was the one who was solely using completion rate(or rather how long it took to kill) as a way of stating difficulty.
You can do easily do mythic in normal raid gear if everyone in the raid group is on point with the mechanics. In fact, a ton of guilds do just that. They start working on mythic before they even full clear the easier modes and save the last day of the raid week to clear normal/heroic.
There are some dps checks here and there, but the vast majority of the fights so long as you didn't lose anybody to stupid avoidable shit, you'll make it past the dps check.
Now I don't have a bunch of mythic raids under my belt in WoW but I did do raiding in SWTOR for a time.
I spent weeks working up to the hard gear check my guild required before I was even allowed to join the most basic raid with them, and each successively harder raid had a greater minimum gearscore acceptance.
I quit out of boredom fairly soon in. I didn't find any of the bosses or mechanics particularly challenging. I just found the gear grind utterly tedious.
Apparently because of this I am not qualified to commentate on PVE in themeparks.
But you apparently are qualified to commentate on Open World FFA PvP.
Ahh yea, that's why such a small percentage of the population is able to clear mythic raids on time in WoW. Because the win is guaranteed.
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
Barrier of entry. Do you understand those words? You're claiming the barrier of entry to mythic raids is a high gear requirement. You are wrong. The barrier to entry to mythic raids is having 20 players who are on top of their own shit who can work together.
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
Now I don't have a bunch of mythic raids under my belt in WoW but I did do raiding in SWTOR for a time.
I spent weeks working up to the hard gear check my guild required before I was even allowed to join the most basic raid with them, and each successively harder raid had a greater minimum gearscore acceptance.
I quit out of boredom fairly soon in. I didn't find any of the bosses or mechanics particularly challenging. I just found the gear grind utterly tedious.
Apparently because of this I am not qualified to commentate on PVE in themeparks.
But you apparently are qualified to commentate on Open World FFA PvP.
Can you link your Zkillboard for us?
Need i remind you what got us started on this whole debate in the first place? I don't need to show shit because i wasn't the one who started talking about OW FFA PvP. I'm not commentating on that at all, if you think i was, you need to go back to school to learn some basic reading comprehension.
Quote "Without a conflict there is no cooperation. You will cooperate for what?
You are in conflict in the most games, just the conflict with the mobs
is lame, as the win is guaranteed. The only reason you do not like the
conflict with players is because you could lose, so to blame competition
for anything is absurd - it is not game issue, but your problem" end quote.
This is why i brought up raiding in WoW. To which icklin responded some stupid bs about raiding being easy or something and then we kept going back and forth. Him simply spouting nonsense and just outright falsehoods clearly showing he knew nothing of what he was talking about. Never once did i say anything about OW FFA PvP.
Ahh yea, that's why such a small percentage of the population is able to clear mythic raids on time in WoW. Because the win is guaranteed.
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
Barrier of entry. Do you understand those words? You're claiming the barrier of entry to mythic raids is a high gear requirement. You are wrong. The barrier to entry to mythic raids is having 20 players who are on top of their own shit who can work together.
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
There are several ways to "guarantee" a win in PVP, out zerg, out gear or out think your opponent.
In EVE there are quite a few players and even corporations with killboards above 90% positive, not because of any great skill, rather they just make absolutely sure to have a huge advantage in every engagement, or they withdraw to return another day.
Put more simply, the way to guarantee a PVP win is to make sure you never are in a fair fight, otherwise you've done something terribly wrong.
Indeed. Players could try to be prepared. Still there is not a guarantee, that the opponent is not prepared for your preparations. That adaptability is missing when we are talking about the PvE. And this is the main reason PvP to be more challenging. In general if you make the AI as smart as the players (it is possible in the limits of the game rules) the conflict PvE-PvP will not exist. The question is why you will make such a step in a MMO game?
A rare point you and I agree on. Players asking for more challenging PVE / AI appear to be overlooking the obvious, PVP players provide what they claim to be seeking.
Like you said, they want the PVE content more challenging, but they still pretty much want the npcs to be almost always conquerable, which of course isn't true in PVP.
If you're playing a game where in PVE, you win 99.9% of your battles without even having to pay attention, and you'd like a harder challenge such that you have to at least try in order to win 90% of the time, then that's asking for more challenge. PVP greatly overshoots that mark, however, as you expect an average player to win 50% of the time.
The other issue is that PVP in MMORPGs is often wildly unbalanced. Getting ganked in a 3 on 1 battle or by a player 20 levels above you in which you had no real hope of doing anything other than dying is, indeed, harder than your average PVE. But that's really not an interesting challenge.
I haven't played WoW since Vanilla, but back then, raids were mostly about getting a large group of people to all schedule their lives around a game without some falling-out that led to people leaving the guild or kicking people out or whatever. I don't want to claim that that's a trivial thing to do, but if someone is asking for an interesting challenge, asking them to schedule their lives around a game without it mattering much what they actually do while playing the game really isn't it. That's why, at least in Vanilla, hardly anyone went raiding.
Most gankers are soloers and small team groupers that don't want to work together or be part of the overall community. They don't care about anything but soloing. MMORPGs according to people here aren't made to be soloed, and it should be more group focused. All gank focused MMOs do is make a solo oriented game (or a co-op experience with a small group) and not a game about having a community that works together for an overall goal.
And the "OVERALL goal" there is kinda lacking...the only goal in World's Drift is to get ahead for me myself and I. Sure can be in a guild or a team, but is there an overall goal the team is working toward besides solo/co-op ganking experience?
For example, in Dark Age of Camelot...you are working with your entire faction as one huge team against the other factions
In EVE, you can solo I suppose but you are missing 99% of the game if you do. Its really aimed at a large community or medium sized community, or entire alliances fighting for nullsec or fighting for control of wormhole space or whatever goal the group aims for.
While gankers are out there in EVE, most of the time I ran into large groups working together to be part of a community to better their friends or corp or alliance or two or all three of those. The game, while it is a free for all PvP MMO and can be killed anywhere, is about the overall community and being part of something big.
On the other hand, that leads me back to my opening statement...
As far as I've seen in videos, and feedback from others, Worlds Adrift is great if you are a solo pvper or a co-op pvper and don't like a large social MMO experience, but not good if you want to be part of a large community working on overall goals to better the alliance/corp/guild or whatever. EVE of course being the greatest example because there are such huge goals large groups of people can work toward.
So if you like to solo pvp mostly or be part of a small co-op experience, I can see Worlds Adrift being great for that. But if you want a classic MMORPG experience that MMOs were based on, just go to EVE Online if you want a good quality full free for all pvp atmosphere that is heavily social.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Personally I think it's much closer to a small group game right now. Solo players are at the same food chain level as plankton.
Territory control is planned. And the proposed mechanics look ok. But there are mechanics that will punish fights larger than a dozen or so. (Large amounts of damage in a small area summons blight, which are doom tornadoes). It's also a ways off.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Ahh yea, that's why such a small percentage of the population is able to clear mythic raids on time in WoW. Because the win is guaranteed.
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
Barrier of entry. Do you understand those words? You're claiming the barrier of entry to mythic raids is a high gear requirement. You are wrong. The barrier to entry to mythic raids is having 20 players who are on top of their own shit who can work together.
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
Like I said. I have done some limited raiding. I found mechanics to basically require situational awareness. If you're in Teamspeak together like good PvPers ALWAYS are, and have someone calling out orders, like good PvPers ALWAYS do, it isn't that hard. What most often thwarted our raids if they wiped was enrage timers. In other words, we were on point with the mechanics, I was on point with my healing, but the DPS just didn't have the DPS to kill the boss in-time becaaaauuuusee... gear check.
Sure we might wipe on a boss a few times as we learned the mechanics but it was the enrage timers that would cause us to call off the raid.
Which is why my guild expected everyone to have a certain gear level to raid, and the higher the raid difficulty, the more gear was expected.
Ahh yea, that's why such a small percentage of the population is able to clear mythic raids on time in WoW. Because the win is guaranteed.
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
Barrier of entry. Do you understand those words? You're claiming the barrier of entry to mythic raids is a high gear requirement. You are wrong. The barrier to entry to mythic raids is having 20 players who are on top of their own shit who can work together.
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
Like I said. I have done some limited raiding. I found mechanics to basically require situational awareness. If you're in Teamspeak together like good PvPers ALWAYS are, and have someone calling out orders, like good PvPers ALWAYS do, it isn't that hard. What most often thwarted our raids if they wiped was enrage timers. In other words, we were on point with the mechanics, I was on point with my healing, but the DPS just didn't have the DPS to kill the boss in-time becaaaauuuusee... gear check.
Sure we might wipe on a boss a few times as we learned the mechanics but it was the enrage timers that would cause us to call off the raid.
Which is why my guild expected everyone to have a certain gear level to raid, and the higher the raid difficulty, the more gear was expected.
Protip, if you were running into enrage timers, your raid was bad. At least in the context of WoW raids. The only reason you would run into enrage timers is 1. your(as in the raid) dps is trash or 2. too many dps died throughout the encounter/missed dps mechanic like boss is under increased dmg mode for 30 seconds or something.
So, your guild required everyone to have a certain gear level to raid because they were bad. Like the pug raids that require people to have 975 ilvl to do a raid that drops 950 ilvl gear lol.
Ahh yea, that's why such a small percentage of the population is able to clear mythic raids on time in WoW. Because the win is guaranteed.
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
Barrier of entry. Do you understand those words? You're claiming the barrier of entry to mythic raids is a high gear requirement. You are wrong. The barrier to entry to mythic raids is having 20 players who are on top of their own shit who can work together.
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
Like I said. I have done some limited raiding. I found mechanics to basically require situational awareness. If you're in Teamspeak together like good PvPers ALWAYS are, and have someone calling out orders, like good PvPers ALWAYS do, it isn't that hard. What most often thwarted our raids if they wiped was enrage timers. In other words, we were on point with the mechanics, I was on point with my healing, but the DPS just didn't have the DPS to kill the boss in-time becaaaauuuusee... gear check.
Sure we might wipe on a boss a few times as we learned the mechanics but it was the enrage timers that would cause us to call off the raid.
Which is why my guild expected everyone to have a certain gear level to raid, and the higher the raid difficulty, the more gear was expected.
Don't use SW:TOR as the basis for your opinion on raiding......SW:TOR sucked!
I was guild and raid leader in SW:TOR from launch until the first xpac. Your observations are spot on - they were almost purely gear checks with very little actual challenge. The first two raids that were released we managed to clear on 8man hardmode on our first attempt, 4 weeks after launch.
But, that is because the combat mechanics in that game were just ridiculously shallow. It only had the trinity, which is lazy and boring to begin with. Even within the trinity, there was very little interdependence so you really didn't even need to care what your teammates were doing. Even the resource mechanics meant that if you screwed up, you just had to wait 5 seconds and you'd be back at full resource.
Later raids did improve the difficulty a bit by having more complicated tactics but all that meant was the challenge was to get all your raid members to remember the tactics. Once everyone could remember them, it again just became a gear check with no real surprises.
The only upside to SW:TOR's raids being so easy was they were extremely social. In my guild we used to have a great laugh raiding, there was no stress involved, it was easy to teach newbies the ropes and the loot drops were really rapid so it hardly took us any time to fully gear up.
Now LotRO, by comparison, had raids that were tons harder than TOR, despite there not being any enrage timers. It was trinity+, so buffers, debuffers and CC were actual roles that meant something. Tactics were much more complicated. Resource management was important - most people would run out of resources within 2 minutes, so in a 10 minute fight you had to plan properly, use pots properly and rely on one another to replenish resources. This meant that gear didn't mean a huge amount when raiding as the emphasis was placed on player skill (well, apart from a short period when they switched to vertical progression at endgame.....that sucked!).
Finally, I'd also like to agree with your comments on good PvPers. In my experience, a good PvPer will always be a good raider, but a good raider has no guarantee of being a good PvPer. A good PvPer needs great situational awareness and great class knowledge so that they can react rapidly to changing situations. These are all great skills for raiding. A raider, on the other hand, can get good by only knowing their own class and only knowing specific boss tactics. This can allow them to clear every raid but still leaves them lacking if they have to adapt on the fly, something essential to PvP.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Wow! Did not expect all the great responses. I can't jump in this late in the conversation - just got back from London as the devs invited community members to their launch event - so I will just address a couple things:
1. I think this is more Sky-Rust than WoW. So as for comparing success or likely enjoyment, see Rust's (now shrinking due to PvE mechanics) massive playerbase. Those people (I am one of them with 1900 Rust hours) would love the PvP in Worlds Adrift. That's the target.
2. It's not exactly full-loot PvP. For an individual character, you die a lot, and lose everything not in your "belt" slots. So you can keep plenty of material there in your limited belt space, but lose everything in the larger inventory, so you have to make choices. Your ship can be fully looted but often times you have the choice in a losing engagement to grab your stuff and fly off to a nearby island saving nearly everything. It's quite balanced - no top group fighting each other is worried about losing their loot to the other group, although in extended fights maybe a boarder can secure a container if it was damaged enough from cannonfire. Storage boxes need to be damaged ~50% for an enemy to be able to begin accessing them. There's also tons of stuff coming to promote more 'pirating' and less direct-kill in terms of giving attackers and defenders options.
3. The devs are insanely responsive to the community. All the islands are player-made and these devs appreciate everyone who is putting forth ideas and so on. It is Early Access, and has a lot of challenges with SpatialOS's server-cluster tech, but they're really driving forward content (bugs included).
Thanks for responding, and I'm glad to be back at my PC where I can get back in game. I hope a few of you checked it out. It's quite a unique game that I cannot say is easily compared to anything specifically. There's plenty of balance if you look for it, and the devs are very 'defender-centric' when it comes to PvP, for example cannons weigh a LOT, so it's easy to be cannonless and run, or just have fewer cannons than a big ship and be faster in general.
If anyone has questions I'm more than willing to answer. @VexusOnTwitch on twitter and /VexusOnTwitch on ... Twitch! Thanks again.
So they topped their first try at Early Access numbers by a few hundred. And upped themselves to four servers now (community isn't splitting evenly). The busy servers are fine, since I just tried logging into to them (with 4 it's kind of hard to tell how crowded they really are).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Need more than a Minecraft variation to create a game i want to play. I have said it before but i'l repeat it,ideas are nice on paper but in reality not fulfilled and not a deep complete game. Without digging into the numbers,i would bet that most of the larger/deeper games have studios of 300 people give or take.
I also mentioned that just looking at the list of upcoming games on this site,one of the top games is not even a game anymore lol,so it really shows how shallow the games are that do come out,mostly 1 trick ponies or pvp playgrounds.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
World's Adrift is a great idea. I think it is one of the best niche mmorpg options out there atm. But it misses the larger pve crowd. Great for those who run established teams seeking challenge. Not much for a solo.
I personally need a game a little less intense. I want a safe zone where I can craft, level and chat. Then leave the safety for exploration. Granted WA has a build an island extension but it's not really in the world itself.
Comments
In order to clear a mythic raid, you need a raid full of people with the good drops from the lower level raids. AKA, you need to grind up to the point it can be done.
Grind =/= Challenge
The fact that most people don't have the time to grind the absolute best gear each expansion just to have the gearcap raised when the next expansion comes doesn't mean that the reason they didn't achieve that gear was that it was too challenging, it's because they didn't have the time.
Pretending you have achieved some challenge other people are incapable of because you devoted more time to that grind based challenge than other people is like a ditch digger standing out in the street yelling through a window at a researcher working on the cure for HIV "Hah! I am better than you! I dug a ditch larger than you have ever dug before!"
No, you devoted more time to a menial task mostly everyone is capable of achieving given time.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
If you're gonna shit on WoW, then show some fucking proof you know what you're talking about, otherwise shut up. When talking about opinionated things, talk to your hearts content, but when talking about things that can be factually proven incorrect...you should just keep your mouth closed lest you make yourself look ignorant.
Gear in mythic helps to an extent of course. But no amount of gear will carry a raid team to victory in mythic raids. Mechanics > gear. The only thing gear helps in mythic raids is increase the amount of fuckups your raid group can handle.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Compare this to say, an FPS with no character stats that releases new missions periodically. If someone is playing through all these missions at the highest difficulty setting, how long do you think it will take them to complete each mission as it's released? Hours probably. Days at most.
Yet in a game like WoW, nobody completes it for a prolonged period of time and then all of a sudden many groups start completing it. Why do you think this is?
You are using completion rate as a way of stating difficulty. Therefore it's very fair to make the assessment that more people are precluded from completion by gear, than by difficulty.
While I do not agree there is no challenge in an PVE (Many old NES games prove this idea false as well as a rare few titles today who's highest difficulty settings are actually difficult) I think the idea that only a small percentage of players completing raids is a measure of their difficulty is a vain, ignorant, and laughable idea on the part of no-lifer raider elitists.
I'm not solely using completion rate as a way of stating difficulty. I'm using actual experience as a way of stating difficulty. The person bringing up Antharas from L2 was the one who was solely using completion rate(or rather how long it took to kill) as a way of stating difficulty.
You can do easily do mythic in normal raid gear if everyone in the raid group is on point with the mechanics. In fact, a ton of guilds do just that. They start working on mythic before they even full clear the easier modes and save the last day of the raid week to clear normal/heroic.
There are some dps checks here and there, but the vast majority of the fights so long as you didn't lose anybody to stupid avoidable shit, you'll make it past the dps check.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
So "tons of guilds" complete mythic raids in basic gear, but only a small percentage of the population is able to clear them at all.
Explain this to me.
I spent weeks working up to the hard gear check my guild required before I was even allowed to join the most basic raid with them, and each successively harder raid had a greater minimum gearscore acceptance.
I quit out of boredom fairly soon in. I didn't find any of the bosses or mechanics particularly challenging. I just found the gear grind utterly tedious.
Apparently because of this I am not qualified to commentate on PVE in themeparks.
But you apparently are qualified to commentate on Open World FFA PvP.
Can you link your Zkillboard for us?
As I said, the only thing gear will help you in mythic raids is increase the amount of times you can fuck up, and even then that's only on minor shit. If you fuck up empowered bonds on Gul'dan your ass is dead no matter what ilvl gear you're rocking. If you a couple people fuck up Thorns on Botanist then your whole raid is dead. If your tanks can't position Kil'Jaedan properly you're never getting past final phase.
No amount of gear will get you through these fights. How many times do i have to say it? Gear is not the barrier of entry into mythic raids. Gear does not make mythic raids easier. Getting used to/mastering the mechanics do. Gear gets you speedier kills, but it's not a magic fucking wand to letting you cheese fights without worrying about the mechanics.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Quote "Without a conflict there is no cooperation. You will cooperate for what? You are in conflict in the most games, just the conflict with the mobs is lame, as the win is guaranteed. The only reason you do not like the conflict with players is because you could lose, so to blame competition for anything is absurd - it is not game issue, but your problem" end quote.
This is why i brought up raiding in WoW. To which icklin responded some stupid bs about raiding being easy or something and then we kept going back and forth. Him simply spouting nonsense and just outright falsehoods clearly showing he knew nothing of what he was talking about. Never once did i say anything about OW FFA PvP.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
The other issue is that PVP in MMORPGs is often wildly unbalanced. Getting ganked in a 3 on 1 battle or by a player 20 levels above you in which you had no real hope of doing anything other than dying is, indeed, harder than your average PVE. But that's really not an interesting challenge.
And the "OVERALL goal" there is kinda lacking...the only goal in World's Drift is to get ahead for me myself and I. Sure can be in a guild or a team, but is there an overall goal the team is working toward besides solo/co-op ganking experience?
For example, in Dark Age of Camelot...you are working with your entire faction as one huge team against the other factions
In EVE, you can solo I suppose but you are missing 99% of the game if you do. Its really aimed at a large community or medium sized community, or entire alliances fighting for nullsec or fighting for control of wormhole space or whatever goal the group aims for.
While gankers are out there in EVE, most of the time I ran into large groups working together to be part of a community to better their friends or corp or alliance or two or all three of those. The game, while it is a free for all PvP MMO and can be killed anywhere, is about the overall community and being part of something big.
On the other hand, that leads me back to my opening statement...
As far as I've seen in videos, and feedback from others, Worlds Adrift is great if you are a solo pvper or a co-op pvper and don't like a large social MMO experience, but not good if you want to be part of a large community working on overall goals to better the alliance/corp/guild or whatever. EVE of course being the greatest example because there are such huge goals large groups of people can work toward.
So if you like to solo pvp mostly or be part of a small co-op experience, I can see Worlds Adrift being great for that. But if you want a classic MMORPG experience that MMOs were based on, just go to EVE Online if you want a good quality full free for all pvp atmosphere that is heavily social.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Personally I think it's much closer to a small group game right now. Solo players are at the same food chain level as plankton.
Territory control is planned. And the proposed mechanics look ok. But there are mechanics that will punish fights larger than a dozen or so. (Large amounts of damage in a small area summons blight, which are doom tornadoes). It's also a ways off.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Sure we might wipe on a boss a few times as we learned the mechanics but it was the enrage timers that would cause us to call off the raid.
Which is why my guild expected everyone to have a certain gear level to raid, and the higher the raid difficulty, the more gear was expected.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I was guild and raid leader in SW:TOR from launch until the first xpac. Your observations are spot on - they were almost purely gear checks with very little actual challenge. The first two raids that were released we managed to clear on 8man hardmode on our first attempt, 4 weeks after launch.
But, that is because the combat mechanics in that game were just ridiculously shallow. It only had the trinity, which is lazy and boring to begin with. Even within the trinity, there was very little interdependence so you really didn't even need to care what your teammates were doing. Even the resource mechanics meant that if you screwed up, you just had to wait 5 seconds and you'd be back at full resource.
Later raids did improve the difficulty a bit by having more complicated tactics but all that meant was the challenge was to get all your raid members to remember the tactics. Once everyone could remember them, it again just became a gear check with no real surprises.
The only upside to SW:TOR's raids being so easy was they were extremely social. In my guild we used to have a great laugh raiding, there was no stress involved, it was easy to teach newbies the ropes and the loot drops were really rapid so it hardly took us any time to fully gear up.
Now LotRO, by comparison, had raids that were tons harder than TOR, despite there not being any enrage timers. It was trinity+, so buffers, debuffers and CC were actual roles that meant something. Tactics were much more complicated. Resource management was important - most people would run out of resources within 2 minutes, so in a 10 minute fight you had to plan properly, use pots properly and rely on one another to replenish resources. This meant that gear didn't mean a huge amount when raiding as the emphasis was placed on player skill (well, apart from a short period when they switched to vertical progression at endgame.....that sucked!).
Finally, I'd also like to agree with your comments on good PvPers. In my experience, a good PvPer will always be a good raider, but a good raider has no guarantee of being a good PvPer. A good PvPer needs great situational awareness and great class knowledge so that they can react rapidly to changing situations. These are all great skills for raiding. A raider, on the other hand, can get good by only knowing their own class and only knowing specific boss tactics. This can allow them to clear every raid but still leaves them lacking if they have to adapt on the fly, something essential to PvP.
1. I think this is more Sky-Rust than WoW. So as for comparing success or likely enjoyment, see Rust's (now shrinking due to PvE mechanics) massive playerbase. Those people (I am one of them with 1900 Rust hours) would love the PvP in Worlds Adrift. That's the target.
2. It's not exactly full-loot PvP. For an individual character, you die a lot, and lose everything not in your "belt" slots. So you can keep plenty of material there in your limited belt space, but lose everything in the larger inventory, so you have to make choices. Your ship can be fully looted but often times you have the choice in a losing engagement to grab your stuff and fly off to a nearby island saving nearly everything. It's quite balanced - no top group fighting each other is worried about losing their loot to the other group, although in extended fights maybe a boarder can secure a container if it was damaged enough from cannonfire. Storage boxes need to be damaged ~50% for an enemy to be able to begin accessing them. There's also tons of stuff coming to promote more 'pirating' and less direct-kill in terms of giving attackers and defenders options.
3. The devs are insanely responsive to the community. All the islands are player-made and these devs appreciate everyone who is putting forth ideas and so on. It is Early Access, and has a lot of challenges with SpatialOS's server-cluster tech, but they're really driving forward content (bugs included).
Thanks for responding, and I'm glad to be back at my PC where I can get back in game. I hope a few of you checked it out. It's quite a unique game that I cannot say is easily compared to anything specifically. There's plenty of balance if you look for it, and the devs are very 'defender-centric' when it comes to PvP, for example cannons weigh a LOT, so it's easy to be cannonless and run, or just have fewer cannons than a big ship and be faster in general.
If anyone has questions I'm more than willing to answer. @VexusOnTwitch on twitter and /VexusOnTwitch on ... Twitch! Thanks again.
playing an hour ago
24-hour peak
all-time peak (steam charts.
So they topped their first try at Early Access numbers by a few hundred. And upped themselves to four servers now (community isn't splitting evenly). The busy servers are fine, since I just tried logging into to them (with 4 it's kind of hard to tell how crowded they really are).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I have said it before but i'l repeat it,ideas are nice on paper but in reality not fulfilled and not a deep complete game.
Without digging into the numbers,i would bet that most of the larger/deeper games have studios of 300 people give or take.
I also mentioned that just looking at the list of upcoming games on this site,one of the top games is not even a game anymore lol,so it really shows how shallow the games are that do come out,mostly 1 trick ponies or pvp playgrounds.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.