Three Indicted on Federal Charges in Call of Duty Swatting Death - MMORPG.com News

Sovrath

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

As to the officer who fired on the unarmed civilian he may not have done anything that warrants charging him, but I'm having a hard time thinking that he "did nothing wrong" when he was just one of several officers at the scene watching the same movements from the victim and he was the only one that reacted by shooting. At the very least he over-reacted when none of the other equally nervous officers who had been primed by the same dangerous sounding narrative relayed to them thought the victim's actions warranted taking a shot. 

I think it's one of those deals where one doesn't know what it's like to be in a situation where you could be facing armed and hostile people.

Maybe he was young and inexperienced, maybe he needed more training, maybe his angle made it look like the person was actually reaching for something.

In the end it's just a really tragic and sad case.

Ridrith

They're murderers. I hope the book is thrown at them and I hope they land in prison for the next 10+ years of their lives. As for those calling out the police, really? They're given information that someone is murdering/killing/etc. They're going to go in with deadly force because that's the information they've been given.

They were doing their jobs and information, especially when there's a chance of lives being at risk is the only thing they have to go on. You have treat it like a real call.

Iselin

Sovrath said:

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

As to the officer who fired on the unarmed civilian he may not have done anything that warrants charging him, but I'm having a hard time thinking that he "did nothing wrong" when he was just one of several officers at the scene watching the same movements from the victim and he was the only one that reacted by shooting. At the very least he over-reacted when none of the other equally nervous officers who had been primed by the same dangerous sounding narrative relayed to them thought the victim's actions warranted taking a shot. 

I think it's one of those deals where one doesn't know what it's like to be in a situation where you could be facing armed and hostile people.

Maybe he was young and inexperienced, maybe he needed more training, maybe his angle made it look like the person was actually reaching for something.

In the end it's just a really tragic and sad case.

The news report I saw said he's a 7-year vet. It may not have been criminal wrong doing but neither was it right.

If I'm his chief, I'd think twice about giving him anything other than desk duty in the future. Yeah he was in a situation that developed into a tough test for all the officers involved but this one officer did not pass the test.

alkarionlog

Dakeru said:

I don't like that the policeman who dealt the deadly shot against an unarmed civilian will not face any punishment.

yeah lets put 3 idiots on jail and let the one who did the shot free, do teh one who called the cops be charged? yes he did a prank call and have to deal with it, but police going inside someone house blind and shooting, not that don't need to do anything about.

anyone not seeing this here is really messed up as these call of duty idiots

alkarionlog

Vrika said:

Xingbairong said:

I won't argue about right and wrong, but I'll say this. I'm a lot older than those 18, 19 year old kids and I do stupid shit that in hindsight I realize that it was really, really stupid.
Also I highly doubt they ever imagined that someone could possibly get hurt.

Nowadays nevermind 18,19 even 28, 29 is too young. People simply mature slower because of the environment in which we are being "raised" in these modern times.
For me for example the difference between a 15 year old and a 25 year old kid is almost negligible. True as a 25 year you might have "responsibilities", but in most cases their way of life doesn't differ as much as someone who is nearing his 40's.

Making headline news and giving a decade or two in jail to someone responsible is a great way to get people to realize.

One of the most important aspects of punishing criminals is that the knowledge of punishment will deter future criminals, and right now this case is likely very effectively preventing future swattings. Whether right or wrong, it's effective.



Though personally I think that maybe Gaskill should be excluded from the charges. Those charges should be aimed at the person who committed the swatting, and the person who requested swatting, not at Gaskill for talking trash on internet.

people don't realize sh!t, if they did no one would go to jail for killing someone stealing or so on, that is whishfull thinking at the best

Fusion

USA USA USA!..

Kyleran

Fusion said:

USA USA USA!..

Purge!  Purge! Purge! 

It's not all that far fetched.

Solar_Prophet

To all the people bashing the police: I hope the next time you fine folks have need of a police officer, you can't find one.

If this had been an actual hostage situation and the police had taken several minutes to 'verify' that things were indeed genuine, resulting in the gunman panicking during that time and shooting all his hostages, you people would be whining about the police not acting quickly enough. Or perhaps you would prefer an officer or two lay dead now? Wait, of course you would.

It amuses me to no end that the people who yell, "FUCK THE POLICE!", are the always first to ask, "Where the fuck are / were the police?"

Finch's death was tragic, but like so many other victims of 'police brutality', if he'd complied with police instructions he'd still be alive. Given his criminal record, you'd think he'd have been pretty familiar with that concept.

Vrika

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

I don't think that giving out false address warrants getting charged. An address does not cause a crime.

But based on one of the articles he also encouraged them to swat that address
   http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211760059.html
he could be charged for that because an encouragement like that can cause a crime.

Personally I think he was just trash talking in the internet and shouldn't be charged.

MadFrenchie

Solar_Prophet said:

To all the people bashing the police: I hope the next time you fine folks have need of a police officer, you can't find one.

If this had been an actual hostage situation and the police had taken several minutes to 'verify' that things were indeed genuine, resulting in the gunman panicking during that time and shooting all his hostages, you people would be whining about the police not acting quickly enough. Or perhaps you would prefer an officer or two lay dead now? Wait, of course you would.

It amuses me to no end that the people who yell, "FUCK THE POLICE!", are the always first to ask, "Where the fuck are / were the police?"

Finch's death was tragic, but like so many other victims of 'police brutality', if he'd complied with police instructions he'd still be alive. Given his criminal record, you'd think he'd have been pretty familiar with that concept.

Civilians are not trained for those situations.  Police are.

It's baffling that you think holding the policemen responsible for over-reacting and causing harm equates to "fuck the police".  Take the black and white glasses off and see the world in color.

You're super-contrived counter-examole is ineffective.  Hostage situations usually aren't resolved in a matter of seconds.  Police procedure with hostage situations is not to pull a gun and confront the gunman unless harm to himself or others appears imminent.  Rarely do hostage takers haul off and murder their hostages wholesale once police arrive, because they know that's a death sentence.

rojoArcueid

Maybe polices officers could train in the ARMY instead of shooting harmless target dummies all day. They are getting used to shooting harmless things, and people.

cheyane

None of us were there on the ground as this shooting unfolded so I definitely don't think it is right to second guess the cop on the scene. 

These people who created this situation are largely responsible for that man's death even though they did not pull the trigger because they set up this high tension and dangerous situation that unfortunately ended with the poor man dying.

JeroKane

Asm0deus said:

kitarad said:

That policeman did nothing wrong with what facts he was given and told at that time.

The real problem is that the police did not act on "facts" but rather acted on hearsay without verifying anything.

Completely agree.  They should have been able to see where the swatter called from and immediately raise questions about the validity of the phone call.

That is one thing.  Another thing is, in such situations is that they should do more to verify there is actually a situation going on.

It's just extremely scary how any nutcase in the US can just call the police, make up a crazy story and sent a deadly force to an innocent person and have him/her killed by paranoid trigger happy cops!

Tiamat64

alkarionlog said:

Vrika said:

Xingbairong said:

I won't argue about right and wrong, but I'll say this. I'm a lot older than those 18, 19 year old kids and I do stupid shit that in hindsight I realize that it was really, really stupid.
Also I highly doubt they ever imagined that someone could possibly get hurt.

Nowadays nevermind 18,19 even 28, 29 is too young. People simply mature slower because of the environment in which we are being "raised" in these modern times.
For me for example the difference between a 15 year old and a 25 year old kid is almost negligible. True as a 25 year you might have "responsibilities", but in most cases their way of life doesn't differ as much as someone who is nearing his 40's.

Making headline news and giving a decade or two in jail to someone responsible is a great way to get people to realize.

One of the most important aspects of punishing criminals is that the knowledge of punishment will deter future criminals, and right now this case is likely very effectively preventing future swattings. Whether right or wrong, it's effective.



Though personally I think that maybe Gaskill should be excluded from the charges. Those charges should be aimed at the person who committed the swatting, and the person who requested swatting, not at Gaskill for talking trash on internet.

people don't realize sh!t, if they did no one would go to jail for killing someone stealing or so on, that is whishfull thinking at the best

Just as a reminder to everyone since there's a debate on whether he should be charged or not, Gaskill's actually being charged with obstruction of justice.  The three colluded together to delete the evidence.

JeroKane

Solar_Prophet said:

To all the people bashing the police: I hope the next time you fine folks have need of a police officer, you can't find one.

If this had been an actual hostage situation and the police had taken several minutes to 'verify' that things were indeed genuine, resulting in the gunman panicking during that time and shooting all his hostages, you people would be whining about the police not acting quickly enough. Or perhaps you would prefer an officer or two lay dead now? Wait, of course you would.

It amuses me to no end that the people who yell, "FUCK THE POLICE!", are the always first to ask, "Where the fuck are / were the police?"

Finch's death was tragic, but like so many other victims of 'police brutality', if he'd complied with police instructions he'd still be alive. Given his criminal record, you'd think he'd have been pretty familiar with that concept.

Bullshit! I am so tired of reading these excuses!

This has all to do with terrible training and hiring the wrong people into the police force who are unfit to the task!

How come innocent people get shot by the police in the US all the time, while it's not such a widespread problem in other countries?

It's insane US cops immediately shoot to kill, instead of trying to take out the suspect by non-lethal means first, like shooting in the legs.
99% of time that is enough to take out a suspect without having to kill him/her.

At least that is how police officers are trained here in Europe!

In the US however, I have a feeling due to the "Sue crazy" country it is, that police officers seem to be deliberately instructed to shoot to kill, since a dead innocent person can't sue the police force nor talk anymore to defend him/herself.

Dakeru

MadFrenchie said:

It's baffling that you think holding the policemen responsible for over-reacting and causing harm equates to "fuck the police".  

Yeah this.
I want to have faith in the police and that requires terrible decisions like this to have consequences.

Wanting to have faith in the police is the very opposite of "fuck the police".

Iselin

Vrika said:

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

I don't think that giving out false address warrants getting charged. An address does not cause a crime.

But based on one of the articles he also encouraged them to swat that address
   http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211760059.html
he could be charged for that because an encouragement like that can cause a crime.

Personally I think he was just trash talking in the internet and shouldn't be charged.

This goes a bit beyond trash talking. This was a "come at me bro!" and then giving out some innocent bystander's address and having something go horribly wrong at that address. Yeah his level of culpability is less than that of the other two but he was also part of it when he gave out the address where he used to live with no regard to what may happen there.

Octagon7711

Vrika said:

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

I don't think that giving out false address warrants getting charged. An address does not cause a crime.

But based on one of the articles he also encouraged them to swat that address
   http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211760059.html
he could be charged for that because an encouragement like that can cause a crime.

Personally I think he was just trash talking in the internet and shouldn't be charged.

Unfortunately his actions unintentionally contributed to the death of a person.  

cowhead

Vrika said:

Iselin said:

I'm glad that the guy who gave out the wrong address is getting charged. I always felt he had some responsibility in this for giving out any address at all and making it credible enough that morons #2 and 3 acted on it.

I don't think that giving out false address warrants getting charged. An address does not cause a crime.

But based on one of the articles he also encouraged them to swat that address
   http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211760059.html
he could be charged for that because an encouragement like that can cause a crime.

Personally I think he was just trash talking in the internet and shouldn't be charged.

Isn't knowingly filing a false police report a crime? I mean this person probably called 911 but the intent to lie to law enforcement. 

MadFrenchie

cheyane said:

None of us were there on the ground as this shooting unfolded so I definitely don't think it is right to second guess the cop on the scene. 

These people who created this situation are largely responsible for that man's death even though they did not pull the trigger because they set up this high tension and dangerous situation that unfortunately ended with the poor man dying.

It is largely the responsibility of the folks doing the swatting.  However, this is exactly why police go through such training.  If this cop did not receive adequate training to prevent unnecessary escalation of the situation, the police department shares fault for the end result, even if it's less than the fault shared by the perpetrators.

MidPrincess

My brother is a cop.  The police have every right to defend themselves against a perceived threat, and they often have less than a split second to make that decision.  I love how many people rail against the police and are so quick to cry "brutality" even though they have zero idea what was truly going on during the situation.  The police often also do not have all the info they need, or are reliant upon incomplete info from witnesses, or what have you.  Do you expect them to throw up their hands if they encounter something questionable?  If you were a cop and were called to a scene in which a caller/witness described a dangerous situation, would you go in with your gun drawn or go in laughing and joking?

Thought so.

Octagon7711

MadFrenchie said:

cheyane said:

None of us were there on the ground as this shooting unfolded so I definitely don't think it is right to second guess the cop on the scene. 

These people who created this situation are largely responsible for that man's death even though they did not pull the trigger because they set up this high tension and dangerous situation that unfortunately ended with the poor man dying.

It is largely the responsibility of the folks doing the swatting.  However, this is exactly why police go through such training.  If this cop did not receive adequate training to prevent unnecessary escalation of the situation, the police department shares fault for the end result, even if it's less than the fault shared by the perpetrators.

From what I understand the cop was investigated and based on the information available at the time he responded, was found to have followed procedures.  Regardless, he and the police department will probably face a civil lawsuit for the death.  I can't say who was right or wrong, I wasn't there and the information we get from second or third hand sources isn't always accurate.   I do know as I said before you don't swat, it's wrong no matter how mad you get at someone.

alkarionlog

Solar_Prophet said:

To all the people bashing the police: I hope the next time you fine folks have need of a police officer, you can't find one.

If this had been an actual hostage situation and the police had taken several minutes to 'verify' that things were indeed genuine, resulting in the gunman panicking during that time and shooting all his hostages, you people would be whining about the police not acting quickly enough. Or perhaps you would prefer an officer or two lay dead now? Wait, of course you would.

It amuses me to no end that the people who yell, "FUCK THE POLICE!", are the always first to ask, "Where the fuck are / were the police?"

Finch's death was tragic, but like so many other victims of 'police brutality', if he'd complied with police instructions he'd still be alive. Given his criminal record, you'd think he'd have been pretty familiar with that concept.

don't worry that already did, you never have a police officer to help around, they tend to show up to get in your way, that is not police brutality, that is cold killing. also pray tell what police instruction? only thing I know if is police enter home and shot unarmed alone dude, nothing of people on point of a gun, and if that was teh case that could have ended with more then one people dead, be officer or others if was true, that thing is all over a series of bad string of events after another, and is not only the idiot who did the prank call

MadFrenchie

MidPrincess said:

My brother is a cop.  The police have every right to defend themselves against a perceived threat, and they often have less than a split second to make that decision.  I love how many people rail against the police and are so quick to cry "brutality" even though they have zero idea what was truly going on during the situation.  The police often also do not have all the info they need, or are reliant upon incomplete info from witnesses, or what have you.  Do you expect them to throw up their hands if they encounter something questionable?  If you were a cop and were called to a scene in which a caller/witness described a dangerous situation, would you go in with your gun drawn or go in laughing and joking?

Thought so.

These attempts at false dichotomies are tiring.  A police officer is someone who applies for the job knowing the risks associated.  The man at his home didn't participate in the swatting.  He was a bystander.

When you see videos like a cop shooting at someone who is face down on the ground, knocking on someone's door and shooting them down despite having little to any idea who the person answering the door even is (whoo boy, what if it actually had been a hostage situation and the taker commanded the hostage to open the door for the police officer?  Is it still the fault of the hostage for not being calm and collected enough to follow the officer's directions exactly?), there's a lot of room for improvement.

Or, we could trigger our defensive response, bitch at everyone for thinking the officer could've done better, and foster the attitude towards cops that's already omnipresent in certain low-income neighborhoods: cops aren't our allies, they aren't here to protect us, they're here to, at worst, destroy lives, at best, harass individuals.

Wizardry

MidPrincess said:

My brother is a cop.  The police have every right to defend themselves against a perceived threat, and they often have less than a split second to make that decision.  I love how many people rail against the police and are so quick to cry "brutality" even though they have zero idea what was truly going on during the situation.  The police often also do not have all the info they need, or are reliant upon incomplete info from witnesses, or what have you.  Do you expect them to throw up their hands if they encounter something questionable?  If you were a cop and were called to a scene in which a caller/witness described a dangerous situation, would you go in with your gun drawn or go in laughing and joking?

Thought so.

Well NONE of your ideal situations are relevant in this case.
 1 They SHOULD have the EXACT same rights we have to protect ourselves.WE are not allowed to carry a gun and wield it whenever we can make some good excuse ,like oh he was concealing something MAYBE a weapon or OH he looks suspicious so maybe i'll pull a gun out.There are tons of other non sensible examples.
SPLIT second,yes THAT would make sense,in this case they had SEVERAL minutes are were NOT responding to an actual incident but some RANDOM phone call to which they obviously did not trace or do ANY kind of home work or background check.
Furthermore the cop did NOT follow ordered protocol,he acted on his own accord based on a random telephone call.Imagine if we the public could act under those same terms?
Being allowed to carry a firearm is a VERY important privilege,NOT a right.
The problem with cops are their unions,WAY too powerful,they become their own judge and jury and no longer follow the same standards as the population they are paid to SERVE.
The one statement you mentioned is 100% correct "they don't always have all the information they need"that is why you DO NOT just randomly pull a weapon that KILLS people out based on NOT knowing the situation or person what so ever,nor the legitimacy of the phone call either.

If it is dangerous enough to warrant a pulled gun,then call in a specialized team and would NOT waltz in CARELESSLY with a gun drawn.The defendant answered the door,if he had of been dangerous as this EXCUSE is claiming,he could have EASILY shot all of the cops,so this was obviously NOT that type of situation.

BTW you can claim to have a family member as a cop,i hung around MANY as well several of my family members are also or were cops at one point.I played hockey with an entire police force team,drank with them got to know them very well.There is improper training ans psychiatric evaluations done before giving a weapon of destruction to a cop.There are also no follow ups just the typical SIU investigations which we all know are a joke.
IMO the cop who fired the lethal shot should also be up for trial,obviously not the same penalty as the person who caused it all but imo he should be in jail for some kind of term,you don't go around killing random people based on a phone call and disobeying your superior's orders.