Reporting Black Desert Online Services to the Europen Comission

deadtrack

European Commission
https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

Please help to prevent abusive business practices that encourage gambling for minors.  More information here https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-04-25-now-belgium-declares-loot-boxes-gambling-and-therefore-illegal

Kakao Games Europe B.V. and Pearl Abyss are attempting to circumvent the EU Laws by using slightly different methods.  The enhancement system in Black Desert Online mimics the loot box/gambling structure.  It feeds off gambling mechanics along with non disclosed low probability of success.
It's intentionally designed to create a loop of failures where customers pay real word cash for Artisan's to constantly repair their items upon each failure.  Many customers are left with nothing and in a situation where they are baited to keep spending more money.
This is a hand crafted system designed to be a slot machine.  If Europe has deemed loot boxes unlawful so should this type of system.

Please fill in the form and file your complaint against Kakao Games Europe B.V for these unethical and unlawful business practices.

Vrika

I think you're confused about the relationship between EU law and Belgian law. If lootboxes are illegal in Belgium then you need to report it to Belgian officials, not to EU level.

Also that looks like a webpage for reporting a breach of law done by a EU member state. Last time I checked Pearl Abyss was not a member state of European Union.

deadtrack

Some of the extreme class balance issues are resulting in direct fraud to customers.  This is not a "class balance discussion".  It's specifically Pearl Abyss / Kakao Europe B.V. receiving monetary value/income/revenue from the sales of costumes, weight upgrades, inventory slots that are locked to specific classes.

Pearl Abyss / Kakao Europe B.V. accepts payment for these items knowing the classes will be disregarded later on.  All money invested into these classes will lose their value.

Pearl Abyss / Kakao Europe B.V. is then intentionally releasing new classes designed to make old classes obsolete.  This is done to make new sales and in spite of customers who already paid for these services.

This issue crosses the line from class balancing into fraud when monetary value is established and there is a direct intent to cause harm to customers that have already paid.

This is not an acceptable business practice.

(Love the Podcast and MMORPG standing up to allow serious discussion like this despite the gaming companies trying to cover up information like this)

deadtrack

Vrika said:

I think you're confused about the relationship between EU law and Belgian law. If lootboxes are illegal in Belgium then you need to report it to Belgian officials, not to EU level.

Also that looks like a webpage for reporting a breach of law done by a EU member state. Last time I checked Pearl Abyss was not a member state of European Union.

Kakao Games Europe B.V. is one of the main publishers for Black Desert Online in several regions. They reside in Europe.

It is important to fight back against these mechanics.  That is the reason several countries already have legislation against loot boxes.

This is a consumer protection issue.

Dkompoze

yawn

Dkompoze

This guy is really mad.  he made an mmorpg account to post this mess. Dont worry about what other people spend their money on, if they wanna pay for something, let them, geeez

deadtrack said:

Vrika said:

I think you're confused about the relationship between EU law and Belgian law. If lootboxes are illegal in Belgium then you need to report it to Belgian officials, not to EU level.

Also that looks like a webpage for reporting a breach of law done by a EU member state. Last time I checked Pearl Abyss was not a member state of European Union.

Kakao Games Europe B.V. is one of the main publishers for Black Desert Online in several regions. They reside in Europe.

LackingMMO

these statements echo across all games. Each time a new class is released, each time a new patch is put out balancing a class or fixing a skill that was broken. There is always a vocal group that take their rage to the forums to protest getting destroyed. Most get irritated and log for some time then return, others rage in game. This group makes accounts across the gaming forumsphere to inform you about this unjustifiable ass kicking. This guy though is evolving! He is going to take this to the EU courts!!  

SBFord

This is essentially a reposting of another thread. Merging the two to keep it to a single thread please.

deadtrack

LackingMMO said:

these statements echo across all games. Each time a new class is released, each time a new patch is put out balancing a class or fixing a skill that was broken. There is always a vocal group that take their rage to the forums to protest getting destroyed. Most get irritated and log for some time then return, others rage in game. This group makes accounts across the gaming forumsphere to inform you about this unjustifiable ass kicking. This guy though is evolving! He is going to take this to the EU courts!!  

I don't recall seeing the class scam in other games.  It specifically requires a design that locks paid upgrades to that class.  This specific scam is common knowledge among the BDO community and has been on their own forum many times.

It's not even debated that new class releases are intentionally OP for the specific purpose of reselling outfits and upgrades.

If you want to help prevent this type of abuse you should take a stand.

Due to others work Loot Boxes where banned in many areas.  This was because a few people stood up and didn't want to put up with it.

Kakao is unlawful in many ways including their Pet Upgrade system which is also in violation of the gambling laws.  It's just another cash shop slot machine.  These type of violations can be addressed by reporting them to the correct authorities.

Listen to the MMORPG Podcast.  They are very aware of these issues.

deadtrack

Dkompoze said:

This guy is really mad.  he made an mmorpg account to post this mess. Dont worry about what other people spend their money on, if they wanna pay for something, let them, geeez

Joined December 2012

I guess this is the type of education people get while Betsy Devos is in charge.

mgilbrtsn

I don't buy into the fact that government should regulate this.  I believe this is purely a customer issue.   If ppl want to spend money on loot boxes and they aren't hurting anyone else... let them.  If enough ppl don't buy the lootboxes, they'll eventually go away.  I think too many people like the nanny state so that individuals don't have to take responsibility for their own choices.

Tiller

deadtrack said:

Dkompoze said:

This guy is really mad.  he made an mmorpg account to post this mess. Dont worry about what other people spend their money on, if they wanna pay for something, let them, geeez

Joined December 2012

I guess this is the type of education people get while Betsy Devos is in charge.

I was just going to point out that the OPs account is old, just no posts until now. It's safe to assume they are mad. /shrug. I have no issue with folks venting frustration here over something they are passionate about, just like I don't care what folks spend their money on. Keeps things interesting. I do have a problem when game companies make their game a suck fest for anyone not willing to spend money on things like "loot boxes of gamble your shitty life away", "scraps of bait and switch" , or potion of "DPSPWNWTFiWinbutton" .

deadtrack

mgilbrtsn said:

I don't buy into the fact that government should regulate this.  I believe this is purely a customer issue.   If ppl want to spend money on loot boxes and they aren't hurting anyone else... let them.  If enough ppl don't buy the lootboxes, they'll eventually go away.  I think too many people like the nanny state so that individuals don't have to take responsibility for their own choices.

You could test this by bringing an 18 year old to Vegas and demanding to play black jack.  Give them all your arguments about regulation and see if that 18 year old can play on the table.

Tell them all about how that 18 year old isn't hurting anyone and it's their money to spend as they choose........... as they escort you out of the casino.

Wonder why that is?  What about all those "freedoms" you thought you had.

Even with that being said I agree with your statements about the governments role.  However, it doesn't end at loot boxes.

It leads to false advertising........ A high chance of (x) item.  .02% to be exact, but that isn't disclosed.

The RNG system is also designed to put customers in a bad state of mind.  To frustrate or irritate them, to make them feel hopeless and then take advantage of them.  The psychology behind it is well researched and developed.  It's also been on the MMORPG Podcast.

There are reasons for regulations.  It's not just a governing force telling you what you can/can't do.  It's a consumer protection mechanism.

deadtrack

Tiller said:

deadtrack said:

Dkompoze said:

This guy is really mad.  he made an mmorpg account to post this mess. Dont worry about what other people spend their money on, if they wanna pay for something, let them, geeez

Joined December 2012

I guess this is the type of education people get while Betsy Devos is in charge.

I was just going to point out that the OPs account is old, just no posts until now. It's safe to assume they are mad. /shrug. I have no issue with folks venting frustration here over something they are passionate about, just like I don't care what folks spend their money on. Keeps things interesting. I do have a problem when game companies make their game a suck fest for anyone not willing to spend money on things like "loot boxes of gamble your shitty life away", "scraps of bait and switch" , or potion of "DPSPWNWTFiWinbutton" .

These practices all go hand in hand.  BDO does everything you stated and much further while POE doesn't do any of it.

BDO never needed to use these shady tactics.  They have a decent core game.  It's just over ran by corrupt business practices that are proven to work because they are effective against a young and naive audience.

As opposed to Bless Online which is just repackaging and reselling dirt.

Sephiroso

Well, PoE does have the mtx rng boxes.

Dkompoze

i like loot boxes tho

Dvora

Dkompoze said:

This guy is really mad.  he made an mmorpg account to post this mess. Dont worry about what other people spend their money on, if they wanna pay for something, let them, geeez

deadtrack said:

Vrika said:

I think you're confused about the relationship between EU law and Belgian law. If lootboxes are illegal in Belgium then you need to report it to Belgian officials, not to EU level.

Also that looks like a webpage for reporting a breach of law done by a EU member state. Last time I checked Pearl Abyss was not a member state of European Union.

Kakao Games Europe B.V. is one of the main publishers for Black Desert Online in several regions. They reside in Europe.

bite him, and me while you're at it.  Companies that pull these kind of things and the people that support them are ruining gaming.  The supporters deserve the crap games they are getting.  

Tsiya

So I'm being cheated by buying a costume for the character I rolled at launch 'cause new classes have come out since then? I don't play their silly upgrade game either. I buy my stuff already upgraded. Anyone can choose to do the same. Most don't, but that's not PA's fault. Add in the free pets and the advice of valks that gives failstacks and I really don't see what you're going on about.

Wizardry

You can bet that if the government is regulating it,it most certainly is a serious problem because government agencies are SLOW to act and need tons of proof before acting.

As always the root of all that is evil is $$$,it shines it's ugly face everywhere,now taking a foothold in what used to be a fun hobby called gaming.Now we have big money sponsors taking charge of Esports,kids now have to take part in cash shops and spending money to compete in these pvp games.

There is a shit load of very shotty business practices within the gaming community and it really needs to stop and we need a LOT more laws surrounding it because people will not police themselves.

Sephiroso

Rhoklaw said:

 Bless Online is P2W, so I stopped playing.

Bless is a shit game, but P2W it was not.

deadtrack

Rhoklaw said:

If I see a game as P2W, I stop playing. ArcheAge was P2W, I stopped playing. Black Desert Online was P2W, so I stopped playing. Bless Online is P2W, so I stopped playing.

The trend being Asian developed PvP focused games with cash shops. I highly suggest if you have a susceptible behavior akin to gambling addiction, that you should steer clear of Asian PvP games because they are notorious for their nickel and dime P2W tactics since 2014.

STAY AWAY FROM ASIAN PVP GAMES WITH CASH SHOPS!!!!!

It's not a viable solution to ignore 85% of the games on the market because they are Pay2Win.  A much better solution is to inform the gaming community and set better standards.  It's well known these only work because people give in.

It needs to be viewed differently.  A clan member who openly pays is welcomed because of their power and advantage.  Especially in siege/war games.  The clan should instead shun and remove that player knowing they are harming the industry.

deadtrack

Wizardry said:

You can bet that if the government is regulating it,it most certainly is a serious problem because government agencies are SLOW to act and need tons of proof before acting.

As always the root of all that is evil is $$$,it shines it's ugly face everywhere,now taking a foothold in what used to be a fun hobby called gaming.Now we have big money sponsors taking charge of Esports,kids now have to take part in cash shops and spending money to compete in these pvp games.

There is a shit load of very shotty business practices within the gaming community and it really needs to stop and we need a LOT more laws surrounding it because people will not police themselves.

Many industries work this way and the society is completely ignorant of all the nameless people out there protecting them.  Not only will they never know their names, they won't even know what they do.

A good example is consumer protections on retirement planning.  There are regulations against self interests and doing what is right for the client.  You can't sell them on a terrible investment because your being paid on a side deal.

Just look at the banking industry for another 1,000 reasons regulations are needed.

deadtrack

Tsiya said:

So I'm being cheated by buying a costume for the character I rolled at launch 'cause new classes have come out since then? I don't play their silly upgrade game either. I buy my stuff already upgraded. Anyone can choose to do the same. Most don't, but that's not PA's fault. Add in the free pets and the advice of valks that gives failstacks and I really don't see what you're going on about.

You are certainly being cheated if they intentionally neglect your class because your deemed "old money".  The ranger class for example wasn't seen for over a year while it was bottom tier.  Meanwhile all their time was spent on cash shop tactics, the next rip off game, and the newest class.

Anything you invested in that class including your time and money could easily go to waste forever.

It's a disgusting business model.  Btw that includes bugs for your class as well.  No time to fix your class, we have to sell a new one this month.

jonp200

Be careful what you wish for.  I would simply stop playing the game.  Oh wait, I did that shortly after launch.

Jamar870

Well you probably free to file your complaint with the authorities, but is the short term you have to convince people that this is not good and should be remove. Short of that just stop playing games with those mechanics in them. You have a long fight in front of you good luck.

Kyleran

Sephiroso said:

Rhoklaw said:

 Bless Online is P2W, so I stopped playing.

Bless is a shit game, but P2W it was not.

Where can I file a complaint (or sue even) against devs who make bad games?  (Meaning of course, ones I don't like)

I could fold in most every MMORPG since 2006 I think.