Guild Wars 2 - Social Media Warfare Takes Down Two Writers at ArenaNet - MMORPG.com

SBFord

Guild Wars 2 - Social Media Warfare Takes Down Two Writers at ArenaNet - MMORPG.com

We all know Social media is a quagmire of scum and villainy. The temptation to go full keyboard warrior, the white knights, and flaming. For all the good it can do, it can destroy just as easily. So, when the Guild Wars 2 subreddit started blowing up over some combative social media comments things weren't bound to end well for two of ArenaNet’s Guild Wars 2 writing team.

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TheDarkrayne

Well, in this crazy world we live in at the moment, we do have to sign social media agreements with the companies we work for.

She signed it, she broke it and she lost her job. Clearly more went on here than what is on display.

That's life now I guess.

Elquin

Her responses to content creators and the community were unprofessional. She should have known better, posting under her name with her company in her bio, that she is representing the company she works for. There's a way to disagree with someone without coming off as a jerk (unprofessional). Was the firing warranted, personally... I think it was a bit much and a workshop or probation might have been more appropriate. However, it was the only move ArenaNet could make due to the PR disaster JP caused. I applaud ArenaNet for sticking up for it's customer base and not allowing a toxic employee's actions represent them.

Phry

She lost her last job for similar reasons, some people just can't help themselves and tbh, an employee that purposefully antagonises the companies consumer base is a liability that should be got rid of post haste, Arenanet just did what had to be done.

Scot

"We all know Social media is a quagmire of scum and villainy."

That is the case, so you do have to wonder why employers, broadcasters, the papers, or just anyone online takes any notice of it? We realise what a hotbed of nonsense it can be, then treat its content as if it had the truism of a broadcast news item.

We know that it is a place for witch hunts, yet report and even endorse them when they occur. The double standard between what we realise social media is like and what we use it for is rather stark. We have had many years now for SM to bed in, so I see no end to it being an inflammatory means of communication which denigrates the societies we live in.

KalebGrayson

Whether her actions deserved it or not...This is Mob mentality at it's finest. Aren't court systems the result of trying to limit this in real life? There is no innocent until proven guilty on the internet. It's just the court of public opinion. Wonder how long, or even if, some type of protection will ever happen on the Internet. I don't use social media, have no Facebook profile.

nastilon

I don't even like that this story was posted in the first place. But I guess that's newsworthy nowadays...

LionShard

Wonderful news

stego160

And this is why you don't bring your political agendas in video games. Look at what happened to Star wars!

Kothoses

It wasnt that the response was "Fairly visceral" it was that the guy politely responded to a discussion she posted, and because he didnt kiss arse was immediatly branded a mysogonist.

Both sides should have been annoyed by this, the ones who are actually dealing with discrimination because the way she so casually turned a friendly conversation into a battle line (Which by the way there was no need for because the original post was very respectful and open). And the people who are not concerned with such issues, because she simply went on the attack, when a simple "Hey can we not do this here" would have been fine.

But seriously, if you dont want discussions, don't start a discussion on a subjective matter.

Losing her job over this is harsh, but then again she has form for being vitriolic, even going as far as to say it was good TB was not around any more to "Do more damage" love him or hate him, you do not find joy in a person dieing.

She will be fine, some one else will take on the experienced writer (Rather than taking a chance on an new writer) and give her another platform to make everything she doesnt like into a gender issue.

FIght the system, stand up for equality I am all for that, but not every disagreement comes down to that, learn to differentiate. I can not take her seriously, not because of her gender, but because she is the girl who cried wolf one time too many.

Now the way that this is being reported, you would not have access to half of the facts involved infact from reading this you would think it was simply a reddit mob that petitioned to get some one fired.

If you are going to report such an event as "News" atleast make an effort to be factual and not Foxtual

Aeander

stego160 said:

And this is why you don't bring your political agendas in video games. Look at what happened to Star wars!

Just at a glance at the offending Twitter feed, I didn't spot anything overtly political. Perhaps there is something further down in the conversation, but it appears that this was nothing more than a developer with clear conduct issues being unable to handle critique and treating customers in an unprofessional way.

verinta

Aeander said:

stego160 said:

And this is why you don't bring your political agendas in video games. Look at what happened to Star wars!

Just at a glance at the offending Twitter feed, I didn't spot anything overtly political. Perhaps there is something further down in the conversation, but it appears that this was nothing more than a developer with clear conduct issues being unable to handle critique and treating customers in an unprofessional way.

She was a terrible person though, when TB passed away she praised it, she's a feminazi, and a racist.

stego160

Aeander said:

stego160 said:

And this is why you don't bring your political agendas in video games. Look at what happened to Star wars!

Just at a glance at the offending Twitter feed, I didn't spot anything overtly political. Perhaps there is something further down in the conversation, but it appears that this was nothing more than a developer with clear conduct issues being unable to handle critique and treating customers in an unprofessional way.

I mean if you wanna sugar coat it that's fine, I'm just being blunt. 

Typhir

This article is not accurate towards what was said in that twitter feed. Ms. Price was absolutely unprofessional in her conduct. It does not matter that this was on her personal twitter page. She chose to bring work into her personal twitter feed for what seems to be self validation. Deroir and INKS were courteous towards someone who flew off the handle and started accusing them of sexism. This could have happened to anyone asking her a question. The fact that it happened to two well known and liked content creators for the game that she works on cause the GW2 subreddit to explode.

People have been fired for far less on personal twitter accounts, see Roseanne Barr as just one example. When you associate your public profile directly with your professional life, you are representing the company period whether or not you are on the clock. There is a reason that many companies tell their employees not to embarrass the corporation in personal communication outlets. She outright derided and slandered two incredibly nice people by playing a victim card. Mr. Fries` defensive nature did not help and only exacerbated the situation, even if I personally believe he was only trying to defend his coworker from a situation that she herself started. Civility matters in public discourse.Twitter by its very nature is public discourse. Screaming sexism when there is none and even after Deroir apologized for any perceived slight is disingenuous and dishonest to Ms. Price`s followers. She could have just politely thanked Deroir for having a different opinion.

ArenaNet did exactly what a company in its position should do. Their response, while harsh, was completely reasonable. I applaud Mr. O'Brien's swift response to the incident.

Aeander

verinta said:

Aeander said:

stego160 said:

And this is why you don't bring your political agendas in video games. Look at what happened to Star wars!

Just at a glance at the offending Twitter feed, I didn't spot anything overtly political. Perhaps there is something further down in the conversation, but it appears that this was nothing more than a developer with clear conduct issues being unable to handle critique and treating customers in an unprofessional way.

She was a terrible person though, when TB passed away she praised it, she's a feminazi, and a racist.

I have no knowledge of the incident you describe. If it is true that she celebrated the death of Totalbiscuit, then I would say good riddance to her. Regardless of political leaning, disrespecting someone's family following the death of a loved one is despicable and tactless.

However, that has nothing to do with the situation at hand. She insulted costumers, going against Anet's long-standing consumer friendly image. They fired her as is their right. 

necrolock

Very one sided article.

Morlewen

Many people are saying that they did treat Jessica too harshly. We have no insight how often she got a second chance. Maybe there were already three warnings and four trainings and two salary-cuts. I am quite sure Arenanet was well informed about Jessica's "Genius and Madness". The woman has a longer history. Look at her era at Paizo. Jessica is a challenging employee who can cause alot of damage if you are not careful and watchful enough.

unrealaz

You see very one sided and the fact that that the guy never attacked her or had some very good points mean nothing to you.
Also to add on top of that just so you understand what kind of woman she is check how she jubilates over Total Bisquit's death:

https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

unrealaz

KalebGrayson said:

Whether her actions deserved it or not...This is Mob mentality at it's finest. Aren't court systems the result of trying to limit this in real life? There is no innocent until proven guilty on the internet. It's just the court of public opinion. Wonder how long, or even if, some type of protection will ever happen on the Internet. I don't use social media, have no Facebook profile.

How about this? You see very one sided and the fact that that the guy never attacked her or had some very good points mean nothing to you.
Also to add on top of that just so you understand what kind of woman she is check how she jubilates over Total Bisquit's death:

https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

Is this ok?

KalebGrayson

unrealaz said:

KalebGrayson said:

Whether her actions deserved it or not...This is Mob mentality at it's finest. Aren't court systems the result of trying to limit this in real life? There is no innocent until proven guilty on the internet. It's just the court of public opinion. Wonder how long, or even if, some type of protection will ever happen on the Internet. I don't use social media, have no Facebook profile.

How about this? You see very one sided and the fact that that the guy never attacked her or had some very good points mean nothing to you.

Also to add on top of that just so you understand what kind of woman she is check how she jubilates over Total Bisquit's death:

https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048

Is this ok?

I wouldn't have posted that about TB. I don't play GW2, never heard of Jessica Price before this article, and don't think I ever read/watched a TB video. I also don't use Social Media. I don't want too many drinks and an opinion to get me fired. I understand the difference between freedom of speech and lack of freedom of consequences of that speech. It appears that many that use Social Media don't understand that distinction. I just don't care to see any instances of mob mentality. It brings to mind large groups of people with pitch forks and torches - crowd hysteria if you will. Again, whether she deserved it or not (and it looks like she did based on that twitter post) - the reaction by everyone appears to be mob mentality.

Amathe

I am reminded of a Bugs Bunny episode where all Yosemite Sam had to do to inherit a fortune was not to lose his temper. And he couldn't help himself.

Xasapis

I'm not sure why mmorpg.com needed an apologetic article over the unwarranted, unexpected and unjustified nuclear reaction of a power mad individual that assumed her position of power allowed her to silence every minor criticism.

How can you possibly spin a backwards narrative like this, when everything that occurred is out there for people to see?

Do we encourage abusive behaviour if it comes from certain sources now?

Here's the actual transcript of the tweets. Feel free to read them. The sad part was that they started as a constructive discussion. Or so the people though, until Price made it clear that it was her monologue and noone was allowed to comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w3q4n/must_be_a_thrill_to_work_with_this_dev/e1shmum/

There are two major issues with encouraging such behaviour.

1. Crying sexist over things that are clearly not, dilutes and damages cases of actual sexism. It's the case of crying wolf one too many times.
2. It creates the notion that female developers are incapable of handling the same amount of heat as their male counterparts. If such behaviour is normalised, the next logical step is to attribute any complain to low tolerance instead of actual pressure.

As for the article itself, I'll try and answer the nebulous notion that a assaulter can claim victimhood, if possessing or being a member of a certain group or narrative.

• Noone attacked her. She did the attacking with zero provocation. Which prompted people to search why and eventually to find out that she has a history of similar behaviour.
• She clearly states that her opinion reflect her status as a developer. She even insults people and tries to silence others based on her position in Anet.
• The whole string of tweets (if you read the above link) is based on the game and is supposed to mean an opening of a discussion.
• Did Anet cave in to the justified outrage of the community or had enough of her craziness?

So what was the point of this article again? Inform people of the incident or creating a victimhood narrative for somebody that has a history of assaulting the customer base of the projects she's working on?

immoralthang

And here I thought we would never see a situation like Jay Wilson saying “f**k that loser” to David Brevik again.

Gutlard

Human behavior is already suspect as we cause enough unnatural harm to ourselves and our 'environment' as it is, when compared to all other species, and SM only gives us an avenue to get out our unfiltered thoughts/opinions on any subject and to anyone instantly.

It's proving to be addictive behavior, when we get instant gratification for proving ourselves right, someone else wrong, putting someone down or defending someone, etc... Need those dopamine hits peeps! Tens and hundreds of times a day!

I quit FB and Twitter, because it's just a trashy slippery slope, which is probably why I started posting here! My body needs those hits!

With regards to this story, was she posting these comments on company time? But as someone else said there's prbly something we all sign now to help protect companies from ourselves and she broke that agreement.

Plot twist my real name isn't Gutlard FFS's, but then again I'm not attacking or defending in a hostile way either, so I'm not really hiding behind an anonymous identity.

Gutlard's the name of my Black Arrow Uruk Creep from LOTRO, and I've just always used it online with gaming and stuffz.

Don't you all feel closer to me now?

Enough about me, how about me?!

Gut Out!

Ayin

Yeah... I don't visit this "arenanet" thing, or reddit (unless a search engine takes me to a post), or facebook, ... and I don't know this writer, or play GuildWars. The most I do is post on forums like this, or for specific games I play.

This sounds insane for an employer to take this action... to fire someone (no matter their remarks) over posts they make on their personal social media accounts. Warn them, MAYBE force an apology for the behavior (not for the thoughts behind the comments, can't force that - they may still feel strongly one way or another)

IMO, what someone does on their own accounts is like being at home or talking on their cell phone. Even if someone makes reference to their employment as an attempt to add a level of authority to their comments.

I agree with the MMORPG post, that this will only lead to less communication from developers or even members of community relations teams (aside from their behind the scenes actions of deleting posts, and such) just to avoid risking their jobs for voicing their personal opinions (even if they're on their own personal accounts)... and what we need these days is MORE COMMUNICATION WITH DEVELOPMENT TEAMS, not LESS.

We know some people are just stupid, especially on the internet. I don't hold that against a company. I may feel a little pity that their employee feels that way, but I'm not going let that color my opinion of a company.

It's just like employees at minimum paying jobs that have employers that expect them to always have a smile on their faces... HOW COULD THEY have "real" smiles if they're living horrible lives with horrible jobs for minimum wage, dealing with stupid customers on a daily basis... I wouldn't blame an employee for having a bad day (or year) or not smiling, or finally saying what's really on their mind, instead of the sanitized "company line" that the customer is always right.

I'm not saying I agree with what the fired people wrote, just that they shouldn't be fired over it. It creates a lot more BAD implications for future industry communication issues and websites that produce "editorial" content.

Bad precedent.
Bad decision.

Annoying to see this happen. (regardless of who it happened to, or their views - I'm not going to go research the whole circumstances of the current outrage, it's immaterial to my view.)

(PS: I hate forum mob mentality, especially the cesspool that is reddit - with the downvoting function and forum topic sorting based on post scores that encourages it.)

SBFord

SIDE NOTE: I want to thank everyone in this thread for keeping a civil tone and keeping to the topic at hand. It's refreshing to engage in perhaps spirited debate without rancor. We appreciate it deeply. 

We would love to continue to cover topics that can border on the political or on the controversial subjects of the day as they affect gaming. If the discussions stay on course, are polite and step away from bombastic rhetoric, we can do so.

Let's hold this thread up as an example. 

Again, thanks everyone.

BACK TO THE TOPIC!