Regardless of what we think here, it took them more than 24 hours for Mike O' Brien to post his final decision. It's safe to assume that they had internal discussion with the respective employees. What most folks are assuming is that it was just based on this incident when it could very well be the result accumulation of internal drama caused by the devs (which will never be public) and this public incident just provoked it enough for ArenaNet to pull the trigger on them.
This would totally make more sense, but we don't know what happens internally. So based on our own outside speculation, they got fired for wasting their time talking to strangers on social media.
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
People aren't happy she got fired because she was female, people are happy she got fired because she was saying some pretty bad things towards the community, and towards people in general while representing said company.
She has a point. Males shouldn't be telling females how their work is or what to do. On top of that. The person who degraded her work did seem pretty sexist...why did he target her and her only? Why not anyone else on the GW2 team?
Guess NCsoft showed they tolerate sexism in the industry by then firing her when all she did was defend herself against a sexist. And then another co-worker defended her, and got fired too. No wonder I avoid any NCsoft game.
also, to add. If she was a male and made the same exact comments, I'm pretty sure this would have gone down A LOT different. As in...a lot less would care, and wouldn't be fired.
...I male did get fired but you're right, no one cares about him.
yup, a male did get fired over it. But if BOTH were males, it be a lot different cause barely anyone is talking about the male that did get fired. As you said, no one cares about him and probably cause he is a male. Which is actually sexism, even if to the person it isn't apparent. Its like someone being a racist or has islamaphobia even if they don't realize they have it, the vast majority of people subconsciously make or do racist things every day without realizing it even if they say they don't.
For example is Kanye West (using him cause he was big on the news recently as a colored person), whether one likes him or not, if he is on a bus and the person (even if they dislike him) decide not to get on that bus with him, that is a racist act.
Which goes back to this story. Why is barely anything focused on the guy being fired? Only a FEMALE? The male pretty much agreed with the female, so he pretty much made the same statement as she did. But no one cares cause "oh its a guy, its okay, lets focus on the female only". That is sexist, even if its a subconscious act.
Barely anyone is talking about the male that got fired because his involvement was sparse. The actual content of his post involved stepping in, briefly defending her, and stepping out. Frankly, I'm surprised that he was even fired at all, and it comes across as a PR management formality to me more than anything.
She is the one who erupted on a consumer for polite criticism. That's just objective fact. It does not matter if she is a man, woman, or Martian. She was out of line and suffered the consequences of her speech.
But for the record, I agree with her view point on the topic. MMO player characters are inherently and universally uninteresting (even in the best written MMOs like GW2 or The Secret World) because of the way MMOs treat the player. I side with her on this. However, when she was questioned on this, she acted inappropriately and then escalated the situation.
She has a point. Males shouldn't be telling females how their work is or what to do. On top of that. The person who degraded her work did seem pretty sexist...why did he target her and her only? Why not anyone else on the GW2 team?
Guess NCsoft showed they tolerate sexism in the industry by then firing her when all she did was defend herself against a sexist. And then another co-worker defended her, and got fired too. No wonder I avoid any NCsoft game.
also, to add. If she was a male and made the same exact comments, I'm pretty sure this would have gone down A LOT different. As in...a lot less would care, and wouldn't be fired.
...I male did get fired but you're right, no one cares about him.
yup, a male did get fired over it. But if BOTH were males, it be a lot different cause barely anyone is talking about the male that did get fired. As you said, no one cares about him and probably cause he is a male. Which is actually sexism, even if to the person it isn't apparent. Its like someone being a racist or has islamaphobia even if they don't realize they have it, the vast majority of people subconsciously make or do racist things every day without realizing it even if they say they don't.
For example is Kanye West (using him cause he was big on the news recently as a colored person), whether one likes him or not, if he is on a bus and the person (even if they dislike him) decide not to get on that bus with him, that is a racist act.
Which goes back to this story. Why is barely anything focused on the guy being fired? Only a FEMALE? The male pretty much agreed with the female, so he pretty much made the same statement as she did. But no one cares cause "oh its a guy, its okay, lets focus on the female only". That is sexist, even if its a subconscious act.
Barely anyone is talking about the male that got fired because his involvement was sparse. The actual content of his post involved stepping in, briefly defending her, and stepping out. Frankly, I'm surprised that he was even fired at all, and it comes across as a PR management formality to me more than anything.
She is the one who erupted on a consumer for polite criticism. That's just objective fact. It does not matter if she is a man, woman, or Martian. She was out of line and suffered the consequences of her speech.
But for the record, I agree with her view point on the topic. MMO player characters are inherently and universally uninteresting (even in the best written MMOs like GW2 or The Secret World) because of the way MMOs treat the player. I side with her on this. However, when she was questioned on this, she acted inappropriately and then escalated the situation.
Yea, the response that I read to her was initially diplomatic and seemed genuinely interested in merely sparking further discussion. She reacted much like a forum troll would. That was the mistake that started the downward spiral.
I still don't think I understand what the other dev did to get fired.
Her reply, at least the one I've been seeing sounded a best snarky. It wasn't angry or explosive.
This feels very similar to the experience with Sarah Sanders tweeting with her official account about the restaurant that kicked her out. But simply with roles reversed. I think a bigger conversation needs to be made about when an employee, any employee is representing themselves or who they work for when they use social media.
Regardless your feelings of someone, you better have a good reason to post a tweet about why it's a good thing someone passed away.
It's worth mentioning that Sarah Sanders is under the employ of the federal government, not a private company. When I was in the Air Force, making politically charged statements of any sort while identifying as a servicemember was a huge no-no that would result in reprimands. You can make the statements, but you have to actively ensure it's divorced from your role as an employee of the government.
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
People aren't happy she got fired because she was female, people are happy she got fired because she was saying some pretty bad things towards the community, and towards people in general while representing said company.
Then why bring up Bioware/Mass Effect at all? And if bring up any company that can hire her, why not EA or someone else? Its obvious that anyone who brings Bioware into the topic (especially in regards to hiring) what the person's real agenda is.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
People aren't happy she got fired because she was female, people are happy she got fired because she was saying some pretty bad things towards the community, and towards people in general while representing said company.
Then why bring up Bioware/Mass Effect at all? And if bring up any company that can hire her, why not EA or someone else? Its obvious that anyone who brings Bioware into the topic (especially in regards to hiring) that the person's real agenda is.
That's the thing, the internet loves triggering people and when they answer back, they get fired. Double standard at its best.
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
Bioware's reputation is tarnished because they stopped making good games with interesting stories and engaging characters and instead focused on pushing out identity checklists masqueraded as games. No wonder Anthem has become their last hope of recovery.
As for Price, do you honestly believe that any kind of disagreement with a woman constitutes sexist behaviour? Who are the people who enable such a sheltered and pampered lifestyle? No wonder such privileged individuals will go nuclear when interacting with normal people outside their protective bubble.
She's not the first to be fired for inflammatory tweets. If as you said there were two men instead, the only difference would be that this whole fiasco wouldn't make the news. They'd both be fired with less fanfare and infinite less media coverage. Anyone remembers the Subnautica developer that got fired for his tweets?
Get 'woke', go broke. I'm sick of toxic people like her bringing sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. into situations where absolutely none of it is present. We cannot get rid of these perpetually offended snowflakes fast enough.
On the bright side for her, I'm sure she'll find much success joining the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and Zoey Quinn as a professional victim.
Oh, and here's a link to a video with the full story, instead of a one-sided take:
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Please keep the discussion to ArenaNet and Guild Wars 2not BioWare.
@Solar_Prophet Please don't bring an agenda in here. Let's keep it civil and non-inflammatory. Be spirited, but without the "triggering" language that some of the old wars you're attempting to drag in bring.
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
Bioware's last great game (Mass Effect 3) was 6 years ago. Since then, they've made a mediocre at best Star Wars single player game masquerading as a MMO, a mediocre at best Dragon Age MMO masquerading as a single player game, and a slow-motion car crash masquerading as a Mass Effect game.
Today's Bioware is a joke, and politics wouldn't even rate among the reasons for that reality. People who bring up politics when discussing Bioware are only diluting the conversation away from the actual writing, polish, technical, and gameplay flaws that have ruined this one legendary studio.
@Aeander This is NOT a topic about BioWare. Move on please.
That was my bad, but unintentionally so. I type most of my messages slowly via cell phone, which takes considerable time. My discussion was being typed long before you closed that line of discussion.
@Aeander This is NOT a topic about BioWare. Move on please.
That was my bad, but unintentionally so. I type most of my messages slowly via cell phone, which takes considerable time. My discussion was being typed long before you closed that line of discussion.
Totally understood. Thanks for sticking to the topic.
She will be employed again soon. I'm sure Bioware will snatch her up.
Maybe she can write some stuff for Mass Effect: Androgyna
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
and here is proof of blatant sexism from the two quotes, proving my point its because the developer in question who got fired is a female. Why include bioware and mass effect?
Why not say EA can hire her or Bethesda or another company?
Because obviously Bioware design their games and run their company that is neutral for all genders and religions. Their games are amazing, but I often see hate toward Bioware due to them hiring females and people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual.
To anyone who knows this, its obvious these two quotes are actually made in a way to be sexist.
Which again goes back to my posts above that a large group of people are happy that this person got fired because she is a female.
It was a joke, lets not make being offended the modus operandi. No harm intended and none was done, lets not see things that really aren't there.
TLDR, your comment is most certainly not about me, lighten up.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Back on topic then. Ultimately, I feel bad for her. I don't think she realizes just how good she had it.
From my perspective Anet is a remarkable company to write for. They provide steady work with frequent, long term story updates. Their game is full to bursting with dialoque and quests. As far as I can see, writing for Anet should be a stable career for a writer to have, and I would personally love to have been in her shoes.
Moreover, Guild Wars 2 has a wonderful community. They're almost universally casual, polite, and passionate. Even when they do have criticisms to share, they usually do so politely, as did the community member whom she erupted at. This critic wasn't trying to insult her work or invalidate her passion, but was trying to slightly improve one aspect of a game that they love, with the expectation that Anet might be willing to hear him out. Anet has always been great at listening to feedback, but it would seem that she did not get the memo.
Hopefully the Guild Wars 2 story will not suffer much from the absence of these two employees.
Some of the joy and celebrating of non-guild wars II players really disgusts me with this (Edit: mainly the harassment that I'm sure we can all imagine). The story is that a developer was acting in a manner -- and evidence shows has been doing such for a long time -- unprofessional as far as their employer was concerned. If you can't take criticism and make implications to defend your assertions rather than talk openly and honestly with a want to learn and interact, then you should not interact. It takes tough skin to do such and even criticism on our daily work may make many anxious.
That's essentially where the story should have ended. The firing of an employee if they were found in violation of their employer's good faith in their acting professionally while discussing a product the company makes, thus making them a representative even if it was a personal account. There are many different accounts, some of which say she invited criticism and questions, opened a AMA and so on, and that the initial person she responded to in a defensive manner was a well known partner and influencer with Arena net that people say presented his thoughts in a sufficient way.
It started to go overboard when her overreacting caused others to overreact and dig into her private history where they found disturbing things such as praising the death of Total Biscuit by saying the industry would be better for it. This alongside her sexist implications of a "Man explaining to her how to do her job" or "mansplaining" further escalated things and outside sources started to take notice (her assertions of "hurt manfeels" and "rando asshats" didn't help in that regard).
I noticed someone say that things would have been different if she were a man: I don't think this is the case -- at least not in the way they are implying to fit their agenda. In the first, if she were a man, then he (now assuming such for that scenario) wouldn't have told another man essentially: "This man thinks he can explain stuff to me?" But if both genders were reversed, and he said, "This woman thinks she can tell me how do my job?" Along with the same implications and history, then you bet your ass that would have been jumped on by -any- respectable organization or company for such sexism, as noted in the first paragraph. As well as quite a few people online.
Neither "This man" nor "This women" are needed in the context. "This PERSON" or "This non-developer" would have been prudent. But to go out of their way to name a gender sets the context, story and the stage for how people then perceive future comments and actions in the discussion regarding that. This is just how writing is and the human brain works. It's also unprofessional to be so defensive against the consumers that your company relies on to fund your paycheck and to instead interact with them in a professional manner and not as was displayed.
It is unfortunate that Fries (presumably) also got fired for this, as from what I read and from what people told me he actually tried to engage with people regarding this and didn't flat out block or dismiss things. He simply defended his co-worker out of loyalty and stepped away. Though since he participated in something that people were crying out against as sexism, it was perhaps a package deal to have to let both of them go. Which brings about the question that, if he were a woman, would have he been let go? I don't have that answer to that, though I do know that it would probably have looked bad to fire Price and not Fries, despite the latter simply attaching himself to her by association and not participating in what caused the uproar in the first place. Though this is a question to think of and not to be taken as fact or an assertion on my part.
Honestly, I'm just sad to see Fries go -- he was a Guild Wars Factions guy and was with that company for maybe twelve years. There was no way that decision didn't hurt, and there had to be something more to the situation than him just being there (which is what led me to the above question). In addition, there is no real good that came out of this. Two people lost their jobs, and Guild Wars lost two developers that could be making more content for the game. The only people that are truly celebrating to the point of harassment are those that just enjoy seeing human suffering, from what I've seen and in my opinion from seeing such.
The rest of us either see facts as they are (the first paragraph) or are on the opposite side of the stage, also screaming and pressing their own agendas.
Post edited by Yaevindusk on
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Another case of someone not understanding the difference between the anonymity of the internet and being a public figure. If you're just using a username, with no descriptive details about you or your life; by all means. Be an asshat, say what you want with little to no possible repercussions. Be the best troll that you can be. The moment though that you said my name is First Last, I work at ArenaNet as a writer, you are no longer anonymous. You can not hide under the umbrella that is anonymity to spout whatever toxic vitriol that you can think of. You are now a face who can link back and hurt their reputation. It's the same as working at say one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants, going to a neighboring town's watering hole, saying that you work for Gordon Ramsay and then spitting in their food. You've given them a place to point their pitch forks, so you're employer now has to deal with negativity they didn't have to because of your own actions. Moral of the story: If you want to tout yourself as a big wig in the industry, be prepared to having to deal with repercussions of your own bad behavior, same as anyone else.
A few things I realized after reading this thread (to this point, anyway).
As a society, we are far too interested in monitoring each other's opinion. A discussion *should* offer the opportunity for both sides to learn something, or at least think about another person's viewpoint.
I'm glad that I have avoided the popular social media applications to date. It is a sad state that our society cannot exchange ideas without insults and cursing, and every opinion is subject to vetting by political correctness, the newest weapon of mass destruction. At least, it's used as one.
I thought the issue was fostered by the anonymous nature of the internet. Now, I'm convinced that people cannot check themselves when staring at words on a display. Ideas on a display aren't respected without the physical threat of violence, and manners are too easily disposed.
I suspect this aspect of human nature is part of the reason we were voted out of the trees by the cool apes.
I will never get the 45 minutes it took to read this thread back.
Is it even possible to put enough *sighs* on the end of a thread?
You have raised something that fascinated me, back in the day before Social Media ((yes young reader there was a time before SM, keep calm and have a cup of tea )) we were all certain that the reason that forums and the likes of IRC could get so heated was anonymity.
But social media shows we can't help ourselves, or at least some of us can't. It does make you wonder what people who go of the deep end there are like when anonymous?
Some of the joy and celebrating of non-guild wars II players really disgusts me with this. The story is that a developer was acting in a manner -- and evidence shows has been doing such for a long time -- unprofessional as far as their employer was concerned. If you can't take criticism and make implications to defend your assertions rather than talk openly and honestly with a want to learn and interact, then you should not interact. It takes tough skin to do such and even criticism on our daily work may make many anxious.
I'm not a GW2 enthusiast and can't really be considered a player. I wouldn't say I celebrate but more appreciate that Anet is standing by their community.
My SO lived and breathed GW2 since release, she is satisfied with the stance Anet took. She gets really excited, particularly about story bits. So when she saw that developers from the team shit on fellow fans who shared her enthusiasm, she was upset.
Understandable to make the distinction. Though my reference in that paragraph was not directed towards one who does play. Though my last paragraph was not so careful in its wording, despite the initial paragraph setting the stage. The "some of the joy" involving "non-guild wars II" players was directed at just that. The ones that don't play and just celebrate two people losing their jobs. In addition to the "some" of what's going on. I didn't go into detail, but some sick harassment has been taking place regarding this. This is what I've been referring to in the first and last of my post.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
There is no doubt that this will have the impact of game companies starting to cut all communication with their clients by all member's of staff.
It's sad really, as gamers often ask why there is not more open communication between the company and the staff, why they won't talk with the masses or be more open, and this my dudes, is why.
There is nothing gained by someone that works for a company to slog it in the trenches with the masses, if they are going to risk losing their jobs for just being a normal person on their social media, if they always need to put on the professional face, then it's a work account, nothing more and will be treated as such.
Ergo, they are going to turn that off, close the doors, and cut all communication unless they are paid for their time.
So when anyone asks why a game company is not more open with them.. this is why.
The problem with your logic is that she wasn't being a normal person on social media, she was being a strait up asshole. There's a distinct difference.
Everyone is an Opinionated Asshole and it's just a matter of what triggers them. Which just makes people want to hide their "real selves" if they are going to be fired for expressing their legit feels on a subject matter they may be very passionate about.
If you were expecting some sanitized professional response from someone on what should be their personal social outlet, then it's just an attempt to keep people stuck at work, all the time, forever, and, lets get real, no one wants that.
If that means, to put their hair down and be themselves, they will need to make alt-accounts that have no relation to their professional life, or simply shut off communication, and make their settings private and their circle small, and let the PR people deal with the masses, they will gladly do that.
Keep in mind, it's only getting worse for them to be open with the masses as it's too much a risk and no reward for them at this point.
And no one, no matter how.. "normal" .. they might be.. wants to take the risk losing their job over playing on twitter. And the few that would.. are going to be real characters..
I totally understand what you're saying.
In my mind, when you're raging at fans of your own online game on a Twitter page that has your real name, job title, and employer's name on the bio, its the equivalent of going into work and yelling at customers with your name badge still on.
Actions have consequences.
It's HR/PR 101 at most jobs now that they tell you to remove your badge when leaving work, and to act in a responsible and civil manner befitting of the company when you *are* wearing your badge, no matter where you're at. Its even more common now to sign documents regarding social media interactions with customers; I fully expect this was the case with Arenanet.
I was not expecting Price and Fries to be fired over this incident, however, that leads me to believe that this may not have been a first-time incident (especially not in Price's case, given her history). I do think it is a shame that two people lost their jobs over this, and am quite disgusted at the ensuing celebration of their termination. Though, I do think MO/ANet made a good decision in regards to timing and swiftness of the resolution.
Yes.. you take a risk when you mention where you work on social media.
That is the whole point.. gamers will learn swiftly that more and more Industry professionals will not feel it is worth the risk, and no matter how they go about it, this will have the effect of curtailing communication.
No one wants to lose their job just to express an opinion or have feelings on a subject matter.
You keep talking about some supposed risk when you also keep conveniently forgetting what type of behavior started this. So long as the dev doesn't treat their customer base like maggots and like their opinions don't matter, what risk is there to discuss over social media? None.
She has a point. Males shouldn't be telling females how their work is or what to do. On top of that. The person who degraded her work did seem pretty sexist...why did he target her and her only? Why not anyone else on the GW2 team?
Guess NCsoft showed they tolerate sexism in the industry by then firing her when all she did was defend herself against a sexist. And then another co-worker defended her, and got fired too. No wonder I avoid any NCsoft game.
Please tell me you're fishing for wtfs with that comment. I'm tempted to call you something but that'd just result in me getting banned. It's amazing we haven't managed to kill ourselves off when there's people out there who think like you.
She has a point. Males shouldn't be telling females how their work is or what to do. On top of that. The person who degraded her work did seem pretty sexist...why did he target her and her only? Why not anyone else on the GW2 team?
Guess NCsoft showed they tolerate sexism in the industry by then firing her when all she did was defend herself against a sexist. And then another co-worker defended her, and got fired too. No wonder I avoid any NCsoft game.
Read the initial comment and her response. Then read further along where she responds more. I think the real question regarding sexism here is "would she have responded with any vitriol to a rather innocuous comment if said comment was made by a female instead?" Can't say for sure, but trend analysis offers some insight.
He 'targeted' her because it was in response to an AMA answer, by her, about writing story and characters. What she used to do...
She is the one who made it confrontational. Her description says she blocks often. Don't talk about it, be about it. Block, ignore. She got swept up by the furor she herself created, became a martyr for her misplaced cause, and rode the wave, continually stirring it along, until she fell right on her sword. Unless figurative swords are sexist now...
And there's why I don't have a twitter account, where apparently being a bit snippy can escalate into losing your job.
I'd say she was mostly in the wrong in the exchange, but if I were to get canned every time I overreacted to some perceived slight, I'd have been homeless before I was 20.
I see social media as a sign of an evolutionary roadblock for human beings. The overblown rhetoric, the inflated outrage, the punishments that so vastly overshadow the "crime"... we've gotta find a way out of these woods.
Comments
She is the one who erupted on a consumer for polite criticism. That's just objective fact. It does not matter if she is a man, woman, or Martian. She was out of line and suffered the consequences of her speech.
But for the record, I agree with her view point on the topic. MMO player characters are inherently and universally uninteresting (even in the best written MMOs like GW2 or The Secret World) because of the way MMOs treat the player. I side with her on this. However, when she was questioned on this, she acted inappropriately and then escalated the situation.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
On the bright side for her, I'm sure she'll find much success joining the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and Zoey Quinn as a professional victim.
Oh, and here's a link to a video with the full story, instead of a one-sided take:
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
@Solar_Prophet Please don't bring an agenda in here. Let's keep it civil and non-inflammatory. Be spirited, but without the "triggering" language that some of the old wars you're attempting to drag in bring.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Today's Bioware is a joke, and politics wouldn't even rate among the reasons for that reality. People who bring up politics when discussing Bioware are only diluting the conversation away from the actual writing, polish, technical, and gameplay flaws that have ruined this one legendary studio.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TLDR, your comment is most certainly not about me, lighten up.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
From my perspective Anet is a remarkable company to write for. They provide steady work with frequent, long term story updates. Their game is full to bursting with dialoque and quests. As far as I can see, writing for Anet should be a stable career for a writer to have, and I would personally love to have been in her shoes.
Moreover, Guild Wars 2 has a wonderful community. They're almost universally casual, polite, and passionate. Even when they do have criticisms to share, they usually do so politely, as did the community member whom she erupted at. This critic wasn't trying to insult her work or invalidate her passion, but was trying to slightly improve one aspect of a game that they love, with the expectation that Anet might be willing to hear him out. Anet has always been great at listening to feedback, but it would seem that she did not get the memo.
Hopefully the Guild Wars 2 story will not suffer much from the absence of these two employees.
The moment though that you said my name is First Last, I work at ArenaNet as a writer, you are no longer anonymous. You can not hide under the umbrella that is anonymity to spout whatever toxic vitriol that you can think of. You are now a face who can link back and hurt their reputation. It's the same as working at say one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants, going to a neighboring town's watering hole, saying that you work for Gordon Ramsay and then spitting in their food. You've given them a place to point their pitch forks, so you're employer now has to deal with negativity they didn't have to because of your own actions.
Moral of the story: If you want to tout yourself as a big wig in the industry, be prepared to having to deal with repercussions of your own bad behavior, same as anyone else.
But social media shows we can't help ourselves, or at least some of us can't. It does make you wonder what people who go of the deep end there are like when anonymous?
Aloha Mr Hand !
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
He 'targeted' her because it was in response to an AMA answer, by her, about writing story and characters. What she used to do...
She is the one who made it confrontational. Her description says she blocks often. Don't talk about it, be about it. Block, ignore. She got swept up by the furor she herself created, became a martyr for her misplaced cause, and rode the wave, continually stirring it along, until she fell right on her sword. Unless figurative swords are sexist now...
I'd say she was mostly in the wrong in the exchange, but if I were to get canned every time I overreacted to some perceived slight, I'd have been homeless before I was 20.
I see social media as a sign of an evolutionary roadblock for human beings. The overblown rhetoric, the inflated outrage, the punishments that so vastly overshadow the "crime"... we've gotta find a way out of these woods.