Why are MMORPG players less grief tolerant?

AlBQuirky

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Really? Never had a group of asshats run into an area you're trying to work in and destroy all of the PvE encounters? It happens in PvE rulesets quite often, with the basement dwellers that harass other players when no PvP is around. There are quite a number of "ingenious ways" to grief other players.


[edit]
As an example, in EQ1, "zone trains" were a commonplace occurrence, as players ran to the "zone line" when a fight got out of hand. Many a mana user got ganked by those mobs as they sat in blinded meditation. This was also used to randomly attempt to kill other players in a PvE setting. Also in EQ1, with open dungeons, parties griefing each other was quite common.

Scorchien

AlBQuirky said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Really? Never had a group of asshats run into and area you're trying to work in and destroy all of the PvE encounters? It happens in PvE rulesets quite often, with the basement dwellers that harass other players when no PvP is around. There are quite a number of "ingenious ways" to grief other players.

  If a PVEs game rules allow that , (which many dont now , with tagging and shared tagging) But if it does .. YOU do not own those mobs , they are there to be killed and looted by whoever does it first ..Period .. If you want a game where every mob is your personal punching bag , go play a single player game ..

 But to even enter a competeitve PVE game and expect everyone to leave your deer alone is foolish at best ..

  Now personally , i would never do that to another player , But i also understand the rule and possible intangibles of an MMO with a competitive PVE rule set ..

  And i have been on that end , and usually those players move thru quickily and are gone .. who cares .. Mobs repawn quickly enough .. No reason to get upset ..And if they continue .. Move on Or,, you also have all the same abilities and oppurtunities  as them .. Intersteing huh ..

  But even this scenario you painted is near impossible to happen in todays mainstream MMOs .. It cannot happen in GW2, ESO ,Tera,LOTRO,FF14 etc .. no need to continue..  Does not really happen any longer ...

AlBQuirky

Scorchien said:

Octagon7711 said:

When I first started playing MMO's I'd try everything to see how it was.  I'd suffer through some games hoping the end game made it worth it.  Now I pretty much know what I like and what I don't and since I don't enjoy griefing either giving or receiving I stay away from those games unless it's zoned or allows flagging, or has some really great escape mechanisms.

and that my entire point in this thread , If people dont like PVP and games that risk everything and being griefed like UO and EVE , Just stay the fuck out of them .. Problem solved you would think , i dont understand all the hurt that goes on here ..

  Anyone here go to a restaurant nite after nite that they dont like whats served , or do you adjust your style and go to a restaurant that serves what you like ..

 Well guess what the fuck there serving up in a PVP game ... if you dont like it move on ..

 Hell , i play LOTRO when i want to chill and just PVE it a great time , (Moors  is fun also)  But if i dont want to be involved in PVP i dont log into UO fel and walk around E Brit woods hoping to skin some harmless deer ..

              

I do stay away from PvP MMOs, far away. And what does every new MMO have included in it? PvP.

craftseeker

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Yes of course, but you are kind of missing the point. Why don't I want to play a PvP game? Because of the griefing.

My view of PvP games can be summed up as: Why would anyone want to be griefed? Why would anyone, other than a sociopath, want to grief someone?

Seems simple enough right? But over and over again I see comments that amount to: 'everyone should want to play this game it has full on everywhere griefing, you'd have to be a wuss not to love that.'

Scorchien

craftseeker said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Yes of course, but you are kind of missing the point. Why don't I want to play a PvP game? Because of the griefing.

My view of PvP games can be summed up as: Why would anyone want to be griefed? Why would anyone, other than a sociopath, want to grief someone?

Seems simple enough right? But over and over again I see comments that amount to: 'everyone should want to play this game it has full on everywhere griefing, you'd have to be a wuss not to love that.'

          Youve answered your own question , and gone full circle here , then dont play that type of game ..

 They arent going to make an EVE , with those mechainics and Rules that wont contain griefing for ex .. Its part of the very core of the game , and yes people like it and , Dont need to be labeled Sociopaths ..

 I mean honestly they could look at and say

 " Why would anyone want to kill defensless Boars all day , only a sociopath would sit around ganking helpless Boar and Deer all day "

  Sounds silly doesnt it ..

  You are labeling players because of the human level of challaenge and risk/reward that they enjoy ..

 I like both types of play .. So i can see both sides ..

  Noone is forcing anyone to log into Eve , its choice , there a multitude of safe games to play

Octagon7711

AlBQuirky said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

cheyane said:

Scot said:

cheyane said:

We play games for fun right. Why use the word 'tolerate'. You tolerate things you don't like or find unpleasant. Is that the correct litmus for fun? 

I think people should just play what they like and should not have to 'tolerate' anything they dislike.

By that litmus I would not be playing any games, there is always something I dislike.

That's sad you're playing games you dislike . I find somethings tedious but I would never stay for a game I dislike unless it was Everquest because it was my first game and I did not have any idea what this genre is like. Now I quit or avoid the parts I dislike. I would never engage in things I dislike unless it is for friends who are playing. For their sake I might stay for awhile but ultimately I would leave.


It's ludicrous to me to play something and I continue playing when so many things chafe my senses. It would be hard although I can understand that you might do that. Perhaps other aspects are so fantastic that the parts you dislike are tolerable but I've yet to come across such a fantastic game that fits that description..

What Scot meant is that in every game, there will be things you dislike, or at least like much less that the rest.

For instance, I like ESO a lot, I'm having a blast playing, but I dislike the zoning and would have preferred a seamless world like BDO. Also, I prefer adventuring, exploring the world and completing epic quests, but I also engage in activities I like less like crafting dailies.

Having to craft 2 rings and one necklace every day and put them in a box, which takes about 2 minutes maximum, that is something I tolerate.

Being ganked as a newbie as soon as I leave a town, without any chance to fight back, is something I tolerated back then in pre-trammel UO because there was no other such game on the market and it was the best choice, but that I wouldn't tolerate nowadays. I'd just play another, better designed game.

Also, if I may add on to this, @Jean-Luc_Picard, I enjoy the ups AND downs in a game. It's the contrast that I look for. If I played "the perfect game", I'd be bored silly as everything went just as planned, perfectly.

In the end, it's weighing the good with the bad. As long as the good outweighs the bad, I'm still playing

If I played the perfect game no one would ever see or hear from me.  I'd never leave the computer (except to sleep) and have all my food delivered.   If it bored me it wouldn't be the perfect game.

Kyleran

Scorchien said:

craftseeker said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Yes of course, but you are kind of missing the point. Why don't I want to play a PvP game? Because of the griefing.

My view of PvP games can be summed up as: Why would anyone want to be griefed? Why would anyone, other than a sociopath, want to grief someone?

Seems simple enough right? But over and over again I see comments that amount to: 'everyone should want to play this game it has full on everywhere griefing, you'd have to be a wuss not to love that.'

          Youve answered your own question , and gone full circle here , then dont play that type of game ..

 They arent going to make an EVE , with those mechainics and Rules that wont contain griefing for ex .. Its part of the very core of the game , and yes people like it and , Dont need to be labeled Sociopaths ..

 I mean honestly they could look at and say

 " Why would anyone want to kill defensless Boars all day , only a sociopath would sit around ganking helpless Boar and Deer all day "

  Sounds silly doesnt it ..

  You are labeling players because of the human level of challaenge and risk/reward that they enjoy ..

 I like both types of play .. So i can see both sides ..

  Noone is forcing anyone to log into Eve , its choice , there a multitude of safe games to play

I doubt anyone cares much whether EVE is PVP nor is complaining about it.

Rather most MMOs in recent years (Bless, ArchAge, BDO, etc) have included some degree of unavoidable PVP.

Worse perhaps, going forward a good percentage of indie games from Albion Online to SC are following the same model.

Pure PVE only titles are pretty much limited to Pantheon, Saga of Lucima and perhaps one or two more.

Lots of interesting IPs such as Fallout 76 are also taking this same path, which isn't sitting well with many.

The options to "go play something else" appear to be quite limited.

It is also baffling how many devs, even those not financially hampered seem to be unwilling to cater to the PVE centric audiance more than they do.

I'll be giving Conan Legends a try soon thanks to a generous gift by a fellow forum member,  but if Funcom didn't offer a PVE only option for me to "get my feet wet" I'd still be maintaining my near perfect record of never playing a survival game.

Eventually I may move over to a more competitive environment, but until FO 76 gets such an option,  likely I won't be playing.

Alverant

People have options. If they don't want to be fuel for some immature ganker's amusement they can go elsewhere. Not everyone likes PvP and shouldn't be demonized because of it. Sheesh, you'd think the PvPers are against people making informed decisions based on how much they complain about "care bears" not wanting to waste time getting killed just so the PvPers can feel superior.

Scorchien

Kyleran said:

Scorchien said:

craftseeker said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Yes of course, but you are kind of missing the point. Why don't I want to play a PvP game? Because of the griefing.

My view of PvP games can be summed up as: Why would anyone want to be griefed? Why would anyone, other than a sociopath, want to grief someone?

Seems simple enough right? But over and over again I see comments that amount to: 'everyone should want to play this game it has full on everywhere griefing, you'd have to be a wuss not to love that.'

          Youve answered your own question , and gone full circle here , then dont play that type of game ..

 They arent going to make an EVE , with those mechainics and Rules that wont contain griefing for ex .. Its part of the very core of the game , and yes people like it and , Dont need to be labeled Sociopaths ..

 I mean honestly they could look at and say

 " Why would anyone want to kill defensless Boars all day , only a sociopath would sit around ganking helpless Boar and Deer all day "

  Sounds silly doesnt it ..

  You are labeling players because of the human level of challaenge and risk/reward that they enjoy ..

 I like both types of play .. So i can see both sides ..

  Noone is forcing anyone to log into Eve , its choice , there a multitude of safe games to play

I doubt anyone cares much whether EVE is PVP nor is complaining about it.

Rather most MMOs in recent years (Bless, ArchAge, BDO, etc) have included some degree of unavoidable PVP.

Worse perhaps, going forward a good percentage of indie games from Albion Online to SC are following the same model.

Pure PVE only titles are pretty much limited to Pantheon, Saga of Lucima and perhaps one or two more.

Lots of interesting IPs such as Fallout 76 are also taking this same path, which isn't sitting well with many.

The options to "go play something else" appear to be quite limited.

It is also baffling how many devs, even those not financially hampered seem to be unwilling to cater to the PVE centric audiance more than they do.

I'll be giving Conan Legends a try soon thanks to a generous gift by a fellow forum member,  but if Funcom didn't offer a PVE only option for me to "get my feet wet" I'd still be maintaining my near perfect record of never playing a survival game.

Eventually I may move over to a more competitive environment, but until FO 76 gets such an option,  likely I won't be playing.

   You know as well as i do .. BDO, and Archeage have very specific PVP areas and no risk of loss of gear at all (packs in AA , not a loss pretty negligble) < Both games have completely avoidable PVP i know folks who play both and have never PVPrd or stepped into an active PVP zone (aka Archeage) .. So in each game if someone wants to only experience the PVE part of the game they can ..

 I cant speak of Bless as i avoided that one ..

  They are plenty of PVE centric game son the market , the most popular Mainstream games are all PVE games , and yes along with a couple more promising titles in the works ..

 I am so close to jumping into SoL , i really enjoy Renfails reads and the direction his game is going

     And finally as a FCMKF investor i thank you for your participation in Conan

 It does deliver a great PVER experience also , particualrly if you can get a few friends to jump in with you ..

  Me i have my eye on ... https://store.steampowered.com/app/768370/New_Dawn/

 Love the setting and some of the mechainics they are implementing ..

MadFrenchie

Scorchien said:

Octagon7711 said:

When I first started playing MMO's I'd try everything to see how it was.  I'd suffer through some games hoping the end game made it worth it.  Now I pretty much know what I like and what I don't and since I don't enjoy griefing either giving or receiving I stay away from those games unless it's zoned or allows flagging, or has some really great escape mechanisms.

and that my entire point in this thread , If people dont like PVP and games that risk everything and being griefed like UO and EVE , Just stay the fuck out of them .. Problem solved you would think , i dont understand all the hurt that goes on here ..

  Anyone here go to a restaurant nite after nite that they dont like whats served , or do you adjust your style and go to a restaurant that serves what you like ..

 Well guess what the fuck there serving up in a PVP game ... if you dont like it move on ..

 Hell , i play LOTRO when i want to chill and just PVE it a great time , (Moors  is fun also)  But if i dont want to be involved in PVP i dont log into UO fel and walk around E Brit woods hoping to skin some harmless deer ..

              

 No, that's the thing: they generally do, which is why open world PvP games without proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking rarely ever achieve anything worthy of calling "popularity."

Scorchien

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

Octagon7711 said:

When I first started playing MMO's I'd try everything to see how it was.  I'd suffer through some games hoping the end game made it worth it.  Now I pretty much know what I like and what I don't and since I don't enjoy griefing either giving or receiving I stay away from those games unless it's zoned or allows flagging, or has some really great escape mechanisms.

and that my entire point in this thread , If people dont like PVP and games that risk everything and being griefed like UO and EVE , Just stay the fuck out of them .. Problem solved you would think , i dont understand all the hurt that goes on here ..

  Anyone here go to a restaurant nite after nite that they dont like whats served , or do you adjust your style and go to a restaurant that serves what you like ..

 Well guess what the fuck there serving up in a PVP game ... if you dont like it move on ..

 Hell , i play LOTRO when i want to chill and just PVE it a great time , (Moors  is fun also)  But if i dont want to be involved in PVP i dont log into UO fel and walk around E Brit woods hoping to skin some harmless deer ..

              

 No, that's the thing: they generally do, which is why open world PvP games without proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking rarely ever achieve anything worthy of calling "popularity."

Point being , there popularity was not what is in question here?

MadFrenchie

Scorchien said:

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

Octagon7711 said:

When I first started playing MMO's I'd try everything to see how it was.  I'd suffer through some games hoping the end game made it worth it.  Now I pretty much know what I like and what I don't and since I don't enjoy griefing either giving or receiving I stay away from those games unless it's zoned or allows flagging, or has some really great escape mechanisms.

and that my entire point in this thread , If people dont like PVP and games that risk everything and being griefed like UO and EVE , Just stay the fuck out of them .. Problem solved you would think , i dont understand all the hurt that goes on here ..

  Anyone here go to a restaurant nite after nite that they dont like whats served , or do you adjust your style and go to a restaurant that serves what you like ..

 Well guess what the fuck there serving up in a PVP game ... if you dont like it move on ..

 Hell , i play LOTRO when i want to chill and just PVE it a great time , (Moors  is fun also)  But if i dont want to be involved in PVP i dont log into UO fel and walk around E Brit woods hoping to skin some harmless deer ..

              

 No, that's the thing: they generally do, which is why open world PvP games without proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking rarely ever achieve anything worthy of calling "popularity."

Point being , there popularity was not what is in question here?

It feeds into the point that "if people don't like PvP and games that risk everything and being griefed . . . just stay the fuck out of them"  Well, most people do.  That's why those games are generally poorly received and most fail.

It's not a very popular paradigm for a video game.

Scorchien

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

Octagon7711 said:

When I first started playing MMO's I'd try everything to see how it was.  I'd suffer through some games hoping the end game made it worth it.  Now I pretty much know what I like and what I don't and since I don't enjoy griefing either giving or receiving I stay away from those games unless it's zoned or allows flagging, or has some really great escape mechanisms.

and that my entire point in this thread , If people dont like PVP and games that risk everything and being griefed like UO and EVE , Just stay the fuck out of them .. Problem solved you would think , i dont understand all the hurt that goes on here ..

  Anyone here go to a restaurant nite after nite that they dont like whats served , or do you adjust your style and go to a restaurant that serves what you like ..

 Well guess what the fuck there serving up in a PVP game ... if you dont like it move on ..

 Hell , i play LOTRO when i want to chill and just PVE it a great time , (Moors  is fun also)  But if i dont want to be involved in PVP i dont log into UO fel and walk around E Brit woods hoping to skin some harmless deer ..

              

 No, that's the thing: they generally do, which is why open world PvP games without proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking rarely ever achieve anything worthy of calling "popularity."

Point being , there popularity was not what is in question here?

It feeds into the point that "if people don't like PvP and games that risk everything and being griefed . . . just stay the fuck out of them"  Well, most people do.  That's why those games are generally poorly received and most fail.

It's not a very popular paradigm for a video game.

   There popularity was not what was in question here , we all know they arent as popular , dont we,what is in question is why do people play them if they dont like it , And if what you say is true , and it is , then who are the people crying so loudly , if they actually dont play PVP games .. Or , do they cry just to cry ..Because one time in a far off world long ago they were... ganked .. get over it

     We can do this all day .. but fact is ..

     The people upset by PVP rulesets are not playing them .. you are correct .

 The people who like those games arent here crying about the rulesets (they like it )

 Its people who dont play those PVP ruleset games are crying the loudest .. and why ....Its strange

  Players who like PVP games arent on ESO crying .. Why .. why   why would you grief Deer and Boars all day .. The Horror ,, my god .. Help us all

  And that brings me to another question then ..

  you said .."which is why open world PvP games without proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking rarely ever achieve anything worthy of calling "popularity."

 So what that implies is that an Open World PvP with proper tools to discourage griefing and ganking will succeed or achieve Popularity ?

 Point me to that game plz ...

  It does not exist .. And if they made a game that could do what you say we would Have GW2 ESO type  with no penalties of death and all the people who actually enjoy PVP rulesets like Eve and UO Fel wouldnt go any where near them ...Sooo

 its not a popular part of the genre it never will be , and why all the games in it that have any lvl of success are still Niche games

berenim

 In my experience PvPers use to cry and moan about PvE games not having FFA PvP as much as PvEers about FFA PvP games not having a PvE server.

 I for myself wouldn't even so much mind a PvP game... As long as there are good anti grief mechanics in place, that make it feel like a world not a griefer's paradise. Usually I can get out IRL without fear of being clubbed just for the fun of it. So a good game should highly discourage such behaviour, too. 
IMHO this would raise the acceptance of PvP overall. Strict consequences usually lowers the amount of loudmouthing idiots (Played Sacred 1 PvP once. Couldn't stand the toxic community on the common one. It was loud, insulting and griefing. For the fun of it I went to the Hardcore server (permadeath) and was greeted by a nice and respectful community that hunted down folks that weren't following the unwritten rules, like welp protection. I enjoyed that pretty much, even though I had to create several chars a day). 
 This also means investing time in checking how folks are trying to circumvent those rules and adjusting this. 

So all in all MOBA-Players, Survival-Players and MMORPG players have some overlapping userbase, but are not same. So most MMORPG players don't want to feel like being in an arena. Rather being the hero (Themepark), or being part of a virtual world (Sandbox, in best cases both kinds). Both are countered by having ten people waiting outside the door who want to maim you just for the kicks.

AlBQuirky

Scorchien said:

AlBQuirky said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Really? Never had a group of asshats run into and area you're trying to work in and destroy all of the PvE encounters? It happens in PvE rulesets quite often, with the basement dwellers that harass other players when no PvP is around. There are quite a number of "ingenious ways" to grief other players.

  If a PVEs game rules allow that , (which many dont now , with tagging and shared tagging) But if it does .. YOU do not own those mobs , they are there to be killed and looted by whoever does it first ..Period .. If you want a game where every mob is your personal punching bag , go play a single player game ..

 But to even enter a competeitve PVE game and expect everyone to leave your deer alone is foolish at best ..

  Now personally , i would never do that to another player , But i also understand the rule and possible intangibles of an MMO with a competitive PVE rule set ..

  And i have been on that end , and usually those players move thru quickily and are gone .. who cares .. Mobs repawn quickly enough .. No reason to get upset ..And if they continue .. Move on Or,, you also have all the same abilities and oppurtunities  as them .. Intersteing huh ..

  But even this scenario you painted is near impossible to happen in todays mainstream MMOs .. It cannot happen in GW2, ESO ,Tera,LOTRO,FF14 etc .. no need to continue..  Does not really happen any longer ...

Actually, I was thinking of WoW and the Scarlet Monastary. It was open. Anyone could run in, kill all the mobs and ruin players' experience. It's NOT killing the deer I had in my sights. :rolleyes:

AlBQuirky

Scorchien said:

There popularity was not what was in question here , we all know they arent as popular , dont we,what is in question is why do people play them if they dont like it ,

It seems to be for you. And everyone has responded that they DO NOT play such games, which you invariable reply to, and attempt to belittle. Please, for the love all that is holy, get over yourself already...

Scorchien

AlBQuirky said:

Scorchien said:

AlBQuirky said:

Scorchien said:

mmolou said:

Scorchien said:

  If people dont like PVP rule sets stay out .. Go to a rulsets that you are comfortable with .. WTF is so hard for some people to get with this

OP is talking about MMORPG players being less tolerant of GRIEFING, you keep talking about PvP rulesets, they are not the same thing.

Just saying.

You realize that you can only be griefed in those rulesets................. just sayin

   you cant be griefed in the other .....

  If someone does not like the challenges of a pvp game , then play a game that does not permit those activites .. simple as that , if you go into a pvp game .. expect pvp

Really? Never had a group of asshats run into and area you're trying to work in and destroy all of the PvE encounters? It happens in PvE rulesets quite often, with the basement dwellers that harass other players when no PvP is around. There are quite a number of "ingenious ways" to grief other players.

  If a PVEs game rules allow that , (which many dont now , with tagging and shared tagging) But if it does .. YOU do not own those mobs , they are there to be killed and looted by whoever does it first ..Period .. If you want a game where every mob is your personal punching bag , go play a single player game ..

 But to even enter a competeitve PVE game and expect everyone to leave your deer alone is foolish at best ..

  Now personally , i would never do that to another player , But i also understand the rule and possible intangibles of an MMO with a competitive PVE rule set ..

  And i have been on that end , and usually those players move thru quickily and are gone .. who cares .. Mobs repawn quickly enough .. No reason to get upset ..And if they continue .. Move on Or,, you also have all the same abilities and oppurtunities  as them .. Intersteing huh ..

  But even this scenario you painted is near impossible to happen in todays mainstream MMOs .. It cannot happen in GW2, ESO ,Tera,LOTRO,FF14 etc .. no need to continue..  Does not really happen any longer ...

Actually, I was thinking of WoW and the Scarlet Monastary. It was open. Anyone could run in, kill all the mobs and ruin players' experience. It's NOT killing the deer I had in my sights. :rolleyes:

  Yes , Wow has Mob tagging now ..................next ,nearly all the time its no longer an isssue , Rare it comes up any longer

Scorchien

AlBQuirky said:

Scorchien said:

There popularity was not what was in question here , we all know they arent as popular , dont we,what is in question is why do people play them if they dont like it ,

It seems to be for you. And everyone has responded that they DO NOT play such games, which you invariable reply to, and attempt to belittle. Please, for the love all that is holy, get over yourself already...

wow you are batting 1000 .. wrong again , it does not matter to me i play and enjoy both , just as they are ...

                   And except the rules and penalties that come with them , i also have not been permanetly scarred because my pixels git ganked ..lmfao .. get a grip on your self ...\

  And lest not dismiss the fact that every single example broguht to the table was debunked , proven to not provide all the info or just flatout wrong.... But continue , this is fun

  And so ill ask once again which noone has answered yet ..

 which Mainstream MMORPG is any of these horrific acts happening to you in ( aside form Eve ) ?

VengeSunsoar

None of it was debunked. That the games change to prevent that from happening reinforces the point.

Griefing is intolerable both by many players perpectives and the devs. Griefing is not PVP. It is a deliberate act to harass someone. That the games change to prevent it from happening shows that the devs don't tolerate it.

Scorchien

VengeSunsoar said:

None of it was debunked. That the games change to prevent that from happening reinforces the point.

Griefing is intolerable both by many players perpectives and the devs. Griefing is not PVP. It is a deliberate act to harass someone. That the games change to prevent it from happening shows that the devs don't tolerate it.

what game are you being griefed in ?

 And thx you for again reinforcing a point I made way back in this thread , there is no game that these things are happening in now ... Except (eve) ...

  So again what has all your painties in such a knot.. It does not happen as i pointed out in this thread an others ...

 And yet still the whining goes on ....  Were some of you so scarred that you are seeing ghosts .. These scenarios as i pointed out .. do not happen ..

VengeSunsoar

Did you miss the point where I said the games changed because the devs don't tolerate it.

I no longer play games where that occurs. 

Scorchien

VengeSunsoar said:

Did you miss the point where I said the games changed because the devs don't tolerate it.

I no longer play games where that occurs. 

was the same point i made pages ago , in this thread and weeks and months ago in others ..

 It no longer happens , the only example left is Eve in Mainstream MMORPGs and a few niche games , that anyone entering should be fully aware of the ruleset and gameplay they are engaging in .. If not that person Ignorant ,naieve, or just stupid ..

 So then why do we have to have another thread about the Horrific griefing , that does not exist ?

                    

                   And again i never condoned it , to the contrary when it was part of my gameplay in UO for ex.. I fought it (always blue) always fought .. If its red its dead mentallity that carried into any game with such mechainics ...

VengeSunsoar

Well I imagine it's because the op may have realized that it doesn't seems to exist  for the most part anymore and possibly realized that it doesn't exist because the devs and the players don't tolerate it and he wanted to know why.

Kyleran

Scorchien said:

VengeSunsoar said:

None of it was debunked. That the games change to prevent that from happening reinforces the point.

Griefing is intolerable both by many players perpectives and the devs. Griefing is not PVP. It is a deliberate act to harass someone. That the games change to prevent it from happening shows that the devs don't tolerate it.

what game are you being griefed in ?

 And thx you for again reinforcing a point I made way back in this thread , there is no game that these things are happening in now ... Except (eve) ...

  So again what has all your painties in such a knot.. It does not happen as i pointed out in this thread an others ...

 And yet still the whining goes on ....  Were some of you so scarred that you are seeing ghosts .. These scenarios as i pointed out .. do not happen ..

Albion online comes to mind...but certainly not mainstream.

Brainy

Why do these Devs keep strongly pushing these PVP/Grief zones in every MMO when they are mostly empty.

The only reason the pvp zones have anyone at all is because they incentivize them so heavily with increased: xp, skills, resources, special loot, rewards etc...

If pvp/grief is so popular why all the needed incentives?  If they put all these incentives into PVE instead of PVP, the PVP zones would go from almost dead to completely dead.