When do you "resent" seeing other players online?

d_20

I was listening to a youtuber talking about a particular game and he shared his opinion that if you "resent" seeing other players around you in an mmorpg, this is a sign of poor game design. I wonder what people think about this.

I can understand what he's saying because I've felt it in ESO, for example, when I have to kill a mob to get a chest or a resource node and someone comes and takes it while I'm in combat. Regardless of whether the other player is "right" or "wrong," I feel resent and I wish I could do something about it, but I can't because there's no pvp combat allowed outside of Cyrodiil (probably it would be worse if I tried to kill the other player and got stomped on top of everything else).

On the other hand, in GW2, the game is designed so you never have to resent another player around you. You can get any resource since there is an individual copy of it on the map for each player. The game is designed so that you can only help others (although people do ignore you if you're in trouble sometimes).

But just from these two examples, I can't confidently say one game is designed better than another. Thoughts? 

Scot

So if you open a chest, every player on a map in GW2 could come and claim what was in it? You don't see how easily that would be open to abuse?

kitarad

Mainly about resources I have not slightly but greatly resented the presence of others and in some games where the resources are much coveted or areas where they are scarce it can be particularly bad. I know that this is one of the inconveniences of a world where you play with others but when you need the resource it can be particularly annoying and more so when they steal from you. I wish I could clobber them on the head at that point but alas I am left with no recourse except a whisper or tell with an angry exasperated message  of "thief". To which I would probably be fuelling the glee with which that nasty player stole from me.

Who am I kidding I hate node thieves above all other thieves.

JeffSpicoli

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

postlarval

"I was listening to a youtuber talking about a particular game and he shared his opinion that if you "resent" seeing other players around you in an mmorpg, this is a sign of poor game design. I wonder what people think about this."

No, it's a sign you need to find a different genre of game to play.

kitarad

thunderC said:

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

I always respect other people's claim to a resource node and more often than not people do respect mine. It is what you have to tolerate on online games and when you play with others. I wouldn't want that to change but I can't say I minded how GW2 handled it either.

People play all sorts of games and can resent certain things and still play the game superbly well. Just because you complain about something does not mean you shouldn't play it. There are no qualifications to playing an online game and even a grouser and constant complainer is going to play the game. That's the great thing about online games.

pantaro

d_20 said:

I was listening to a youtuber talking about a particular game and he shared his opinion that if you "resent" seeing other players around you in an mmorpg, this is a sign of poor game design. I wonder what people think about this.

I can understand what he's saying because I've felt it in ESO, for example, when I have to kill a mob to get a chest or a resource node and someone comes and takes it while I'm in combat. Regardless of whether the other player is "right" or "wrong," I feel resent and I wish I could do something about it, but I can't because there's no pvp combat allowed outside of Cyrodiil (probably it would be worse if I tried to kill the other player and got stomped on top of everything else).

On the other hand, in GW2, the game is designed so you never have to resent another player around you. You can get any resource since there is an individual copy of it on the map for each player. The game is designed so that you can only help others (although people do ignore you if you're in trouble sometimes).

But just from these two examples, I can't confidently say one game is designed better than another. Thoughts? 

totally agree! all these single player story based mmorpgs practically invite and condition many players to think this way. nobody likes being disturbed while enjoying their interactive book...

bonzoso21

It doesn't actually bother me or have an effect on my enjoyment, but when I'm clearly running towards a mob or resource and someone swoops in and tags it before I get within range, you're damn right I mutter to myself or call him a name out loud, and I challenge anyone to truthfully say they NEVER have. I get that grouping up would solve that little problem, but if you're the person popping a speed cooldown to race someone to something, why would I want to be in a group with you? 

Of course, the flip side to a game that provides resources and mobs that everyone can tag for rewards at the same time is a world that doesn't seem as real. I get that, too. Like I said, it's not resentment so much as an occasional minor annoyance, but we all have days when minor annoyances seem to pile up and piss us off.

pantaro

thunderC said:

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

this reminds me of one of the most fun and organic moments i had in an mmo it was in swtor actually which is ironic if you think about it. it was during one of their in game events and involved me the healer,a group of friends(raid team) and a couple stealthers and some how i got flagged for PvP. lots of laughs and fun was had!

i can only imagine how to many this is like their worst nightmare the way some seem to act like dying in a mmo is like the end of the world or something,just dont get it.....

Viper482

thunderC said:

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

Someone taking advantage of a resource node you are clearing mobs to get to is immersion into the MMO experience (in a non-pvp setting)?? We should appreciate dicks because they make us bond with non-dicks? This is about as ridiculous a thing I have heard. If you need assholes in life to make friends with non-assholes something is wrong with you. And yes life, MMO, it is all the same regarding this particular topic.   

bonzoso21

Viper482 said:

thunderC said:

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

Someone taking advantage of a resource node you are clearing mobs to get to is immersion into the MMO experience? We should appreciate dicks because they make us bond with non-dicks? This is about as ridiculous a thing I have heard. If you need assholes in life to make friends with non-assholes something is wrong with you. And yes life, MMO, it is all the same regarding this particular topic.   

I was just thinking the same thing. I guess I need to look inward and learn to be a little more appreciative of all the assholes I cross paths with in life...how would I recognize a decent person if it weren't for them?!

kitarad

Viper482 said:

thunderC said:

If you are getting upset cause someone stole your chest while you were clearing mobs then you are not getting the purpose of online games. Its all about relationship building, For every 1 dick that kill steals or swipes your chest there will be 5 players that acknowledge you and pass on by. When you create a care bear environment where the player next to you has ZERO effect on your gameplay it completely waters down the immersive multiplayer experience. The truth is the dicks make the multiplayer player experience that much better because when you find decent people you form a bond, add them to friends list, maybe join their guild, raid together, talk.... Thats what the Multiplayer aspect is about.

Someone taking advantage of a resource node you are clearing mobs to get to is immersion into the MMO experience (in a non-pvp setting)?? We should appreciate dicks because they make us bond with non-dicks? This is about as ridiculous a thing I have heard. If you need assholes in life to make friends with non-assholes something is wrong with you. And yes life, MMO, it is all the same regarding this particular topic.   

Wonderful post. Agree 100%. I think it cannot be stressed enough that a frequent admonishment has been that we need to suffer fools and assholes to enjoy an MMORPG.

d_20

How about as game design?

Amathe

I resented camp breakers when I played original EQ. Other than that, I can't think of any resentment.

Chimborazo

Almost never, only (in GW2) when a lot of players are in the area of an event (making its difficulty scale up) but they're afk or not understand how the event work! 

Chimborazo

@Scot
There's been very little (and promptly fixed) abuse of the system in the past 5 years: gathering nodes are "personal", you can gather them once in a while and other players can di the same, nobody steals anything. In the open PvE event in order to get a loot or reward, you have to partecipate and contribute: if you arrive after the event is done, you can't claim any reward. 

Scot

Chimborazo said:

@Scot
There's been very little (and promptly fixed) abuse of the system in the past 5 years: gathering nodes are "personal", you can gather them once in a while and other players can di the same, nobody steals anything. In the open PvE event in order to get a loot or reward, you have to partecipate and contribute: if you arrive after the event is done, you can't claim any reward. 

I can see how it is somewhat better, but this is PvE if you can't put up with seeing other players there what are you going to be like in PvP?

Chimborazo

@Scot I can't answer you, I played Gw1, GW2 and DDO for over 90% of my "career", there wasn't this issue in those games. I played AoC and Lotro for a while, didn't remember getting mad over it.
I think you could even make it a feature, if properly structured: even if you can't actually kill the other players, you're still competing with them in a race against time to get a chance at the reward. Might be interesting to explore the feature 

Vermillion_Raventhal

There is nothing wrong with resentment, conflict and non pleasant social experiences.  Games that are multiplayer will have human interactions.  Intolerance to grief and lack of control in an environment with other humans is just bizarre. 

Unfortunately, those players who want single player games with optional multiplayer are the biggest customers of this genre.

Aethaeryn

Open PvP fixes the chest problem. . . except he would have killed you first. . but then you can kill him later. . .except he has logged off. . .nevermind.

kitarad

I don't suffer dicks and arseholes in real life. In a game which I engage in to have fun I have even less tolerance for them. I do group and enjoy other activities with other players in a MMORPG so I fail to see how I am playing a single player game when I am doing all these other things with other people. Only people who want to foist their playstyle on you try to argue you're playing a single player game just because they want to negatively impact your gameplay. Not falling for that and will continue to vote with my wallet and support games that cater to me. Don't see why that's a problem after all there are many games out there.

It's a pity that others think they can dictate what I  can play and how I play. Not putting up with that.

JeffSpicoli

kitarad said:

I don't suffer dicks and arseholes in real life.

Thank goodness that sounds like a very uncomfortable condition to have.

Zeppel80

What drives me crazy is the level capped players in GW2 who run around the low level zones ruining things for everyone else. When there's a group event, they bull their way in with their mounts and one-shot mobs; no one else can do anything but stand and watch.

It's bad enough having to spend 10 minutes running from point A to B while you see the level 80s zooming by on their mounts, rude behavior just adds insult to injury.

Chimborazo

Zeppel80 said:

What drives me crazy is the level capped players in GW2 who run around the low level zones ruining things for everyone else. When there's a group event, they bull their way in with their mounts and one-shot mobs; no one else can do anything but stand and watch.

It's bad enough having to spend 10 minutes running from point A to B while you see the level 80s zooming by on their mounts, rude behavior just adds insult to injury.

I firmly believe Anet needs to increase the power scaling right now, but asking people not to run around in mounts just to make you feel better is dumb 

Shaigh

Non-instanced bosses and dungeons, named quest monsters on a lengthy respawn timer, when a quest asks you to kill 15 monsters and there aren't that many monsters in the area. 

Kyleran

Chimborazo said:

Zeppel80 said:

What drives me crazy is the level capped players in GW2 who run around the low level zones ruining things for everyone else. When there's a group event, they bull their way in with their mounts and one-shot mobs; no one else can do anything but stand and watch.

It's bad enough having to spend 10 minutes running from point A to B while you see the level 80s zooming by on their mounts, rude behavior just adds insult to injury.

I firmly believe Anet needs to increase the power scaling right now, but asking people not to run around in mounts just to make you feel better is dumb 

Well the "better" solution is to have content that doesn't appeal to both groups,  but that's one of the downsides of level scaling.