One last point. I personally don't like P2W games, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them. I think it works for some people and if they can find joy in playing P2W games, I'm all for it. We don't live that long and it's important to find joy where you can in my opinion.
But...
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
Exactly... MaxBacon comes from the same crowd that says for example in World of Tanks, buying premium ammo is not P2W. All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W. The problem is, everyone has their own definition of P2W. Me, I believe that anything that you can purchase out of a cash shop to give yourself an advantage regardless of the duration is P2W.
Buying premium ammo is paywalled, buying a currency that everyone can earn to buy ammo everyone can buy is not one the same thing.
One last point. I personally don't like P2W games, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them. I think it works for some people and if they can find joy in playing P2W games, I'm all for it. We don't live that long and it's important to find joy where you can in my opinion.
But... Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
And another.
I'm fine with the revenue model of SC because I can earn what I buy, what I hate is paywalled stuff, like the buffs and the crafting special items and all that type of stuff meant to be out of reach to everyone who doesn't pay. Giving you a reasonable grind for what you want is something I cope with in every MMO I play.
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Exactly... MaxBacon comes from the same crowd that says for example in World of Tanks, buying premium ammo is not P2W. All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W. The problem is, everyone has their own definition of P2W. Me, I believe that anything that you can purchase out of a cash shop to give yourself an advantage regardless of the duration is P2W.
There is a big difference between World of Tanks and Star Citizen.
World of Tanks has a lot of items you ONLY get in the cash shop for real live cash. You CANNOT get them in game for in game money/rewards only.
At a conversion rate that is so stupid that almost no one is doing it.
1000 UEC for 1 dollar ??
Out of all the SC players i know (and that is quite a high number) absolutely NO ONE bought UEC at this conversion rate.
Anecdotal evidence is not enough.
There are lots of people who bought hundreds of dollars worth of items from the VD store and have now been reimbursed with credits. You've got to remember that people will want a bank balance when they start the game so I'm sure people will be buying credits.
CIG have said that credits are going to be their main income after release so they clearly have plans to get people to buy them.
>>> Anecdotal evidence is not enough. >>>
If you have FACTUAL evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it.
People buy pledge packages (and with that: ships). None of the people i know buy UEC for cash. All of the people i know still have UEC from their pledge packages, from their stretch goal bonus UEC allowances and the UEC that was sometimes handed out as a present to active backers.
At least i have a lot of friends playing the Alpha and telling me what they do. I trust them more than what detractors of Star Citizen post online, most of them not even owning Star Citizen or playing it. Most of them not having a clue.
Have fun
A. Chris said himself that people being refunded for VD items were pushed over the hard cap hence the removal of. B. Discussions on the subreddit, on Spectrum etc when they initially started refunding people for VD items and also when the whole P2W discussion flared up provide numerous examples.
Whether people are spending lots of money on credits at this time is largely irrelevant. What we know is that CIG has plans for it. They have said that, it's not something detrractors have claimed. We also know that in other games which sell credits they do a lot of business with it, one only has to look at EVE, GW2, WOW etc to see this is the case, so claiming that it won't happen or that people won't buy them is not thinking the situation through.
Worse yet, this is absolutely the truth no matter how much you try and twist it:
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
And you keep trying to dodge by qualifying it with "after release it will be different." It's not different now.
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
OH MY BLOOODY FREAKIN.... //bloodpressure
Right now is Pay-2-Pay, because both the credits, the land and many ships have no play on it, hurrah?
The people that buy said credits/ships/land now will keep them through launch.
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W.
I know, it's crazy. It would be so much worse of a system in my opinion if no one had an opportunity to actually pay for ships after launch. If they make it so that only players in the alpha and beta can pay $1000 for some giant capital ship and everyone that buys the game after launch can only buy a $40-60 ship, it seems even more upsetting in a way.
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating the truth doesn't make the truth untrue though, so I think your point is pointless.
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Why did you repeat your opinion so many times then? Was it a test or .. Im confused. I say let these guy try and see what happens!
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating the truth doesn't make the truth untrue though, so I think your point is pointless.
It's not the truth if you try to imply it as the actual announced revenue model, that you had a go at me at first like I was saying anything that wasn't known info about the actual game model, not the crowdfunding pledges. >.>
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Why did you repeat your opinion so many times then? Was it a test or .. Im confused. I say let these guy try and see what happens!
We need a virtual arm wrestling table with winner take all for the prize.
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating the truth doesn't make the truth untrue though, so I think your point is pointless.
It's not the truth if you try to imply it as the actual announced revenue model, that you had a go at me at first like I was saying anything that wasn't known info about the actual game model, not the crowdfunding pledges. >.>
This is absolutely the truth:
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
A. Chris said himself that people being refunded for VD items were pushed over the hard cap hence the removal of. B. Discussions on the subreddit, on Spectrum etc when they initially started refunding people for VD items and also when the whole P2W discussion flared up provide numerous examples.
Whether people are spending lots of money on credits at this time is largely irrelevant. What we know is that CIG has plans for it. They have said that, it's not something detrractors have claimed. We also know that in other games which sell credits they do a lot of business with it, one only has to look at EVE, GW2, WOW etc to see this is the case, so claiming that it won't happen or that people won't buy them is not thinking the situation through.
You DO know that the vast majority of the Voyager Direct items has been bought with the UEC that was
a) in the pledge packages
b) stretch goal rewards
c) gifts from CIG to the backers,
do you not ?
Very little of that was bought with UEC that had been bought with the 1000:1 conversion.
Sure, some maybe did. I know no one that did it.
CIG has plans to sell some in game items for real life cash. They mentioned so far:
a) simple small starter ships
b) decorative items
c) basic ship modules
d) paint schemes
e) temporary boost items (with a small effect, low single digit percentage .. speed ? Turn rate ?)
f) story DLCs (which i think will be the major source of revenue)
g) UEC for cash at 1000:1 rate (i have already often posted here why this is a ridiculous rate and almost no one will use it ... following the example of all the other space games, where shortly after launch players make millions/billions/trillions of in game cash and no one gives a hares' fart about 1000 UEC for 1 buck).
Exactly... MaxBacon comes from the same crowd that says for example in World of Tanks, buying premium ammo is not P2W. All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W. The problem is, everyone has their own definition of P2W. Me, I believe that anything that you can purchase out of a cash shop to give yourself an advantage regardless of the duration is P2W.
Buying premium ammo is paywalled, buying a currency that everyone can earn to buy ammo everyone can buy is not one the same thing.
You just proved my point. In the example above, anyone can eventually earn enough credits in game to buy the same premium ammo that the P2W crowd has no problem throwing their credit card at to get an immediate and decisive in game advantage. Why it is even worse here is that Chris says that items people can buy now will not be available for cash later. That is a permanent P2W feature. If on release day, I get one ship and you have 150 ships because you've been tossing cash at the game for five years, you have a permanent P2W feature over me. As a new player and I figured out there was no server or account wipe at launch, I'd quit the game, pure and simple.
Good thing the game is not a race, with the majority of gameplay is intended as PvE, in a sandbox environment, that will be mostly irrelevant to my gameplay.
I don't play MMO's just on release day to race to the end-game, just like EvE there are already people in all the stages of progression, expecting 1:1 equality is not realistic.
Right now you can pay RL money for ships. Right now you can pay RL money for land. Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
You were the one who had a go at me, I was talking about the revenue model of the game, not the crowdfunding pledges when you accused me of lying.
On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN'T buy ships for RL money. On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN'T buy land for RL money. On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN buy credits for RL money.
Exactly... MaxBacon comes from the same crowd that says for example in World of Tanks, buying premium ammo is not P2W. All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W. The problem is, everyone has their own definition of P2W. Me, I believe that anything that you can purchase out of a cash shop to give yourself an advantage regardless of the duration is P2W.
There is a big difference between World of Tanks and Star Citizen.
World of Tanks has a lot of items you ONLY get in the cash shop for real live cash. You CANNOT get them in game for in game money/rewards only.
Have fun
how can you be sure? there is no game for you to prove your point, right now is just your wish and opnion.
till now I only see the roberts you worship so much breaking his word over and over, only thing we can be sure right now is roberts can't be trusted
You can pay RL money for ships. You can pay RL money for land. You can pay RL money for credits.
You CAN'T buy ships for RL money. You CAN'T buy land for RL money. You CAN buy credits for RL money.
That is the monetization model stated and restated to sustain the game when released past its crowdfund.
Your fellow SC White Knight Erillion just confirmed the opposite. Do you really wanna keep saying you can't buy those things with RL money?
I think MaxBacon means ... cannot buy ships except starter ships. There HAS to be a way for a new player to get into space ;-)
With land ... he is correct ... to our current knowledge after launch you can buy land only with a significant amount of in game cash. Not directly with real life cash.
With UEC .. see my arguments that people wont bother with a 1000: 1 conversion rate, when players will make millions/billions/trillions of in game cash shortly after launch ... after the first player has learned how to gamble the trade system. All the other space games show that this is EXACTLY what has happened in all the other games shortly after they launched. With EVE being a prime example.
My guess for why they are raising the credit cap is that the income from selling ships is starting to dry up so they need to create another revenue stream to keep bleeding the whales dry.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Exactly... MaxBacon comes from the same crowd that says for example in World of Tanks, buying premium ammo is not P2W. All of this stuff that you can do now for in game advantage later that players won't ever have access too is even worse than P2W. The problem is, everyone has their own definition of P2W. Me, I believe that anything that you can purchase out of a cash shop to give yourself an advantage regardless of the duration is P2W.
There is a big difference between World of Tanks and Star Citizen.
World of Tanks has a lot of items you ONLY get in the cash shop for real live cash. You CANNOT get them in game for in game money/rewards only.
Have fun
how can you be sure? there is no game for you to prove your point, right now is just your wish and opnion.
till now I only see the roberts you worship so much breaking his word over and over, only thing we can be sure right now is roberts can't be trusted
I go by what IS and what has been announced so far.
I am no Eldar farseer. I cannot look into the future.
I do trust Roberts. Enough to give him some of my money.
You can pay RL money for ships. You can pay RL money for land. You can pay RL money for credits.
You CAN'T buy ships for RL money. You CAN'T buy land for RL money. You CAN buy credits for RL money.
That is the monetization model stated and restated to sustain the game when released past its crowdfund.
Your fellow SC White Knight Erillion just confirmed the opposite. Do you really wanna keep saying you can't buy those things with RL money?
I think MaxBacon means ... cannot buy ships except starter ships. There HAS to be a way for a new player to get into space ;-)
With land ... he is correct ... to our current knowledge after launch you can buy land only with a significant amount of in game cash. Not directly with real life cash.
With UEC .. see my arguments that people wont bother with a 1000: 1 conversion rate, when players will make millions/billions/trillions of in game cash shortly after launch ... after the first player has learned how to gamble the trade system. All the other space games show that this is EXACTLY what has happened in all the other games shortly after they launched. With EVE being a prime example.
Have fun
So as of right now, can you buy all of those things with RL cash? If so, Max bacon is wrong and he should stop spreading his false narrative otherwise he's just...fake news.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
My guess for why they are raising the credit cap is that the income from selling ships is starting to dry up so they need to create another revenue stream to keep bleeding the whales dry.
>>> the income from selling ships is starting to dry up >>>
Agreed, 100%. Like or hate the game, there is no denying any longer that this game will be one of the ultimate P2W games on the market upon release.
This is so delusional
SC model doesn't compare to the model of MMO's like World of Tanks, hell if SC was to "be the ultimate", then SC would become one of the most profitable games in the world, what WOT generates in a few months greatly surpasses what SC crowdfunded in its history.
Comments
One last point. I personally don't like P2W games, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them. I think it works for some people and if they can find joy in playing P2W games, I'm all for it. We don't live that long and it's important to find joy where you can in my opinion.
But...
Right now you can pay RL money for ships.
Right now you can pay RL money for land.
Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
I'm fine with the revenue model of SC because I can earn what I buy, what I hate is paywalled stuff, like the buffs and the crafting special items and all that type of stuff meant to be out of reach to everyone who doesn't pay. Giving you a reasonable grind for what you want is something I cope with in every MMO I play.
Broken CD mode!
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
Repeating your opinion doesn't make it valid
B. Discussions on the subreddit, on Spectrum etc when they initially started refunding people for VD items and also when the whole P2W discussion flared up provide numerous examples.
Whether people are spending lots of money on credits at this time is largely irrelevant.
What we know is that CIG has plans for it. They have said that, it's not something detrractors have claimed. We also know that in other games which sell credits they do a lot of business with it, one only has to look at EVE, GW2, WOW etc to see this is the case, so claiming that it won't happen or that people won't buy them is not thinking the situation through.
P2W.
P2W.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Right now you can pay RL money for ships.
Right now you can pay RL money for land.
Right now you can pay RL money for credits.
P2W.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I don't play MMO's just on release day to race to the end-game, just like EvE there are already people in all the stages of progression, expecting 1:1 equality is not realistic.
On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN'T buy ships for RL money.
On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN'T buy land for RL money.
On the revenue model of the MMO you CAN buy credits for RL money.
till now I only see the roberts you worship so much breaking his word over and over, only thing we can be sure right now is roberts can't be trusted
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
SC model doesn't compare to the model of MMO's like World of Tanks, hell if SC was to "be the ultimate", then SC would become one of the most profitable games in the world, what WOT generates in a few months greatly surpasses what SC crowdfunded in its history.