Worlds Adrift promises future PvE servers.

anemo

So recently during a dev stream that also had a larger QA section the devs said that they were going to be adding in PvE servers summary:  https://www.worldsadrift.com/blog/icymi-stream/

Oliver: Do we have a rough estimate for when this next update (Alliances stuff) will hit?
   Herb: So it’ll have to be on the PTS first; we’re working hard on that right now. There’s some stuff we’re doing that’s new and we’re running into some unforeseen issues, and so we’re working with Improbable to resolve those. Hopefully the PTS will come this week, maybe – and then we’ll see when the update drops. We did have to reassign some people to the urgent Live issues, so I don’t have a specific date on that right now. But hopefully this week for the PTS.
   Oliver: Is there anything we haven’t covered that you wanted to cover, before we…
   Herb: Actually I wanna be here while we talk about it
[Foreshadowing intensifies]
   Oliver: So I’ll ask the question and we can ease into the second half of the stream.
Someone said, what’s the next big feature that we could be working on? Which leads us nicely…
   Ric: I kind of already alluded to it earlier, around the PvE/PvP servers. I think it’s something that we’ve thought a lot about, something that we’ve discussed with the Community Cloud Council as well.
What we’ve done really is spent a lot of time and energy in the last few years looking at ways to really make as many people as we could happy. We had people who loved the PvP content, and people who loved the PvE content, but it’s very challenging to make everything play nice and everyone be coheisive. So what we’ve done is we’ve looked to the community, we’ve looked at what things have worked well on other titles, and what we’ve really thought about is that we really want to make Worlds have a place for everyone, where everyone has options. If today they want to play in one way, tomorrow they might want to play another way – they can pick and actually grow as well. Maybe in the beginning you don’t want to be attacked, you want to have a relatively tranquil experience while you’re trying to grow your ship, but at one point you might feel up to some more combatitive PvP content. So what we’re trying to move towards is more player choice in that regard, and actually in a crazy but awesome way, by giving the players more choice, it actually means there’s a different kind of pressure on us. Instead of trying to spend so much time and effort trying to make all these things work for everyone, actually it means we can give you guys choices and options and then through your behaviours and what you like to do, you can tell us what you want in each server. It’s actually freed us up and allowed us to do some other things we’ve talked about on the stream already, like cooking, some of the progression stuff, clothing and so on. So we’re really excited about it, but we should say it’s something we are working actively with the community on. I did mention the CCC; please speak to the council members if you have some feedback! I can see the chat buzzing already with specific questions, there’s so much detail in here – I know some of you identify as a specific type of player, and you’re concerned about protecting that part of the experience for yourself. We’re aware of this as well, please give us feedback and we are listening; a tonne of it has already factored into the detailed design work that the guys are doing. Keep it coming, and do let your council members know your thoughts.
   Herb: Just to clarify, we want to open a PvE server, where certain things will be turned off. By turned off, I mean the damage won’t work – if you shoot someone in the face they won’t take any damage, stuff like that. This allows people who just want to get into the game with their friends, build a ship, explore, find stuff, progress through the weather walls and not really worry about all the other stuff, a place to play Worlds Adrift. So that’s what we’re working on now!

There is way more covered, but I want some type of summary here.

As you can imagine being a "hardcore PvP" game that then pretty much out of the blue announcing that there will be PvE servers, the forums are in a massive uproar.   It's also worth noting that if you're playing the game as "intended" it's pretty much a rust a like, where if you lose a fight you lose your house (ship in this game) that is also your storage/bank/home/base for all of your actions (though it's get cheesed by using offline alts as storage, since your ship logs out 5 or so mins after you do.   It would be a Rust lite for this reason if it wasn't for the fact that ships can be sunk in minutes).

The forums actually are pretty hilarious right now.  totally recommend.

_______________________

Personally I think it's kind of a good thing for the game.   

Since its advertising points have always been more staged towards being an exploration, and a ship building game  (until very recently even it's steam AD videos didn't even have an air ship sinking).    If you were always exposed to PvP, you never wanted to spend much time on an island since each moment you were away from your ship was time it was almost completely exposed (no alerts of any sort of damage/theft/people nearby).  Which meant the best gameplay was park ship high then Run-Boost-Jump your way through the island as quickly as possible, ignoring any difficult content or anything that could slow you down to minimize your vulnerability window.   Then the game also has an utterly outstanding ship editor, and ship customization system BUT you'd be an idiot to use it to it's full extent since the PvP meta forces you to make nasty looking box ships that look like upside down porcupines because there are so many engines on it.

Music and Artwork theming is also way more chill than you'd expect for a PvP game.   The music is literally something you would put on to calm down to, except for 2 songs that are used for storms.   And the artwork seems to be closer to some green apocalypse style (calm after the worst), rather than a grungy mad max style.

RemyVorender

People have been asking for this for a long time. What happened to "git gud?" LOL. Too late. No thanks. They've been insulting us carebears way too often. This is a hail mary for them. 

Albatroes

ikcin said:

WTF. The core idea of this game is the PvP. What will be the point of PvE server? How the players will compete?

Look at WoW - why people went on the PvE servers? Because they are carebears? No. Because they got the same rewards for solo gameplay with much lower risk. It is simply stupid to PvP in such case.

Obviously the PvE server here will mean - PvP instance. So in general another singleplayer game with limited instanced competition.

This is so wrong, and absolutely destroys the MMO.

So you'd like the game to remain pvp focused with this 200 player base, right...?

Kyleran

ikcin said:

WTF. The core idea of this game is the PvP. What will be the point of PvE server? How the players will compete?

Look at WoW - why people went on the PvE servers? Because they are carebears? No. Because they got the same rewards for solo gameplay with much lower risk. It is simply stupid to PvP in such case.

Obviously the PvE server here will mean - PvP instance. So in general another singleplayer game with limited instanced competition.

This is so wrong, and absolutely destroys the MMO.

News flash, some people don't "compete" but rather enjoy a game for other reasons such as exploration, crafting, progression, or just chatting with others.

These same people also may spend many hours PVPing.....in games such as Fortnite or LOL, where the PVP is on a more level playing field and its easy to get matched into a team.

It takes a "'special" person to enjoy getting obliterated by others again and again until they somehow manage to claw their way to the top, only to then spend their days slaughtering the helpless again and again in retaliation.

One player of this game wrote a facinating but repulsive guide on the best way to "surrender" or "flee" in order to survive and continue some semblance of progression.  

It included "helpful" tips on how to build the fastest ships for outrunning others, gathering resources from undersides of islands where pirates frequently could be avoided and how to lay down your guns, letting yourself be boarded.

Also how to speak to pirates so they might take "only" your really valuable items and leaving your basic ship still intact. Failing that, what materials you should store in your "unlootable" belt for a faster restart on your next chicken boat.

I am as carebear has they come, and have avoided, run from, or died honorably in many a "fight." If I ever had to go through what this guide recommended I am sure I would have flung my laptop across the room when it was over, or started kicking my cats.....  

Whew.....lets save the cats.  

I recall one review where a self avowed, hardcore PVPer with a solid love for L2, Shadowbane and DF spent about 9 hours trying to get started in the game only to get stomped over and over again.

Even he called for the devs to soften up the new player experience and offer some sort of protection, at least at the start so they could learn the basic game mechanics, amass some assets, and most importantly,  make some friends and join a crew so they could play it as it should be, a competitive multi player game.

He suggested either making new players not attackable by veterans (he was fine if other noobs could) or even having a pvp free zone for noobs to get started.

Go figure.....

cheyane

This is what happens when a game realises they cannot survive without PvE players.

We are important mainly because our way of playing  isn't necessarily destructive . I am not saying PvP is always destructive but it does tend to destroy the will to play. It has nothing to do with fear as it is often said and used to make fun of carebears and other names one gets called. However being constantly on the look out and being worried about being jumped is tiring and exhausting and especially so in games where you can work together and achieve so much. There can be so much to do and often these games give so much freedom to creativity and design that it is such a shame to merely reduce it to a primitive 'winner takes all' path.

I am glad they are going to offer PvE servers and I consider that if you do not have a narrow point of view about what 'interaction' is there can be so much fun to be had and games don't always have to be about confrontations and fights.

A note to @ikcin please don't quote me and reply to my posts as I am not going to respond. You're like a broken record and in all honesty I have stopped reading your posts altogether.I would appreciate it if you would do me the courtesy of similarly skipping my posts altogether.

anemo

From my experience the PvP wasn't that bad, it's just that the risk of being exposed to it 100% of the time is oppressive.   Obviously causing you to change your playstyles quite a bit.

I'm 180 hours in (over the course of a year).   I'd say that most of that time was in the beginning when the community was more mixed (was far easier to get people to trade/talk on the first July release, while right now it's FAR more difficult).    But still that's probably 30 hours with the current community.

And from what I've experienced is that in all that time I've had a PvP take down my ship 5 or 6 times,  and lost over a dozen to personal PvE (tossing an under equiped ship at a storm wall,  "I wonder where the fog kill zone is", and "I can totally fit in that gap").   I've probably had another 5 or 6 times where I chased off/escaped a PvP when they weren't on their game (I'm terrible at FPS type games, since you now old school MMO player).   So the game actually got it's world size and defender advantages down well, since that's only "actual PvP risk" averaging every 5-10 hours or so (In reality that risk clusters, since the process of rebuilding strands you, and leaves you with a weaker ship for a while).

_____________________

Even though the PvP doesn't keep me from actually playing the game if I feel like it, I probably wouldn't play it on a PvP server except to join someone else's crew for a bit.    Since your character itself doesn't level,  rather the items that you're capable of building get better.   It means that a minute 0 character is just as useful to a crew as an hour 9000+ character (player skill is not included in "character"), unless the crew is rebuilding a ship.

Kyleran

ikcin said:

anemo said:

From my experience the PvP wasn't that bad, it's just that the risk of being exposed to it 100% of the time is oppressive.   Obviously causing you to change your playstyles quite a bit...

Indeed, the PvE server means just the same rewards with lower risk. Who will be the idiot to PvP then? Also your post shows maybe the biggest problem - MMO players mentality is broken by the WoW and the clones. You admit the risk is not so high actually, but you feel subjectively oppressed. I bet you do not feel at the same way in games like LoL for example. So many from the limited number of people who still play MMORPGs actually expect solo and safe, instead of massive multiplayer game. They simply do not want a MMO. No matter the risk of multiplayer gameplay is not so high as it seems.

cheyane said:

This is what happens when a game realises they cannot survive without PvE players.

We are important mainly because our way of playing  isn't necessarily destructive .

Dude, you are a solo player. Any MMO should be able to survive without you. If not there is something wrong with the gameplay. And please do not hide behind the PvE label. You are against the grouping and the multiplayer gameplay, no matter if it is PvE or PvP. Also as the risk to lose items in Worlds Adrift is anyway high - so not safe environment for solo players with or without PvP, you will not play this game.

As a player who has lost many billions of ISK to PVPers while never having a chance to fight back, I clearly understand the "risk" of multiplayer gameplay far more than most.

In fact I'm shouldering a majority of the risk in the encounter for most situations when doing PVE such as mining, hauling or exploration.

Heck, CCP intentionally designs it this way on purpose, more realistic really, a trading fleet is never going to successfully fend off a pack of U Boats, even when escorted by a full battle fleet.

PVEers dont fear losing items when the odds are fair, but when there's little chance to avoid then they shy away.

anemo

@ikcin

LoL has one ultimate objective of destroying the enemy nexus.   Comparing it to even an MMO as simple as this one is pretty clumsy.  

Kyleran

ikcin said:

anemo said:

@ikcin

LoL has one ultimate objective of destroying the enemy nexus.   Comparing it to even an MMO as simple as this one is pretty clumsy.  

LoL has all elements of a MMORPG. Literally all.

Kyleran said:

Heck, CCP intentionally designs it this way on purpose, more realistic really, a trading fleet is never going to successfully fend off a pack of U Boats, even when escorted by a full battle fleet.

PVEers dont fear losing items when the odds are fair, but when there's little chance to avoid then they shy away.

This is the thinking from the WoW box - what means fair? Players or NPCs - all are part of the environment. The main difference is the players think, so they are more challenging in general. But the other parts of the environment could be made challenging too. The mobs could group and also overcome a player. The simulator of nature events could destroy your ship, with very low chance to save it. So it seems fair means easier. When the chance to win is higher than the chance to lose - and that does not seem very fair to me. There are not PvErs. There are solo players who hate the risks and losing of items. Even in a game like LoL you can win with 3 vs 5 and bad start, if you are smart and with little chance. The PvP even against more enemies is not unfair. The PvE with guaranteed win is definitely unfair.

Also - GB won the war. 

Something to ponder. I play primarily for progression, not much else.  Not challenge (outside of achieving near 100% efficiency) not interesting combat (2.5 years of doing not much of anything but shooting rocks and hauling them to market), not "fun" whatever the heck that word means.

Online games are tough for me, theres times when there is no avoiding "wasting time" and losing progression,  which I loath.

I'm currently playing FO4, a single player title, and decided to free up some SSD space to install NMS.

For basically 3 characters I deleted over 3K save game files, recovering 23GBs of space. This while still retaining the last 100 saves for my first 2 characters and the last 400 for my current play through.

It isn't that I have to reload very often, not playing in death mode or anything (just Hard I think) like that.  I literally save or quick save after accomplishing anything.  Selling stuff to a vendor, sell the weapons first, exit vendor, quick save, sell armor, exit vendor, quick save, sell rest, exit again and do a full save before heading out to explore. (and probably quicksaving after arriving from my fast travel port, just in case I'm ambushed as I arrive)

So imagine my approach in dealing with online games, as best as I am able, I minimize my risk and losses, and try to remove progression loss as much as possible. 

How do I enjoy playing EVE in 0.0? Despite occasional losses its the safer and more efficient location to earn ISK which I made hand over fist compared to high sec.

First 5 years or so playing EVE I netted around 15B ISK. 2.5 years of mining? Cleared about 70B or so, despite easily losing 10 to 15 along the way.

PVP is just useless to me, no real progression to be achieved  (killboard stats? lulz) the real power in EVE is ISK and the carebears in the game control much of it.

Solo PVE pays very well.....

TheScavenger

Another PvP deathmatch MMO fails and is extremely niche like all the others. Now they need to add PVE servers because their hardcore PvP group is extremely niche in the MMO genre.

The only PvP deathmatch MMO that is successful is EVE, but it offers a ton of PVE content, "safer" (not safe, but safer) areas AND just added solo instances. Why doesn't anyone copy EVE if they want a deathmatch PvP MMO is beyond me.

Its why UO removed PvP pretty quickly in its life, and made it an option for those who want PvP. The game would not have seen the success it did if it remained a gankers paradise.

Its also why Blizzard tried very hard to entice people to PvP, they had to actually offer rewards, incentives and a small talent "tree" because barely anyone would PvP otherwise. We'll see how that works out, or if people still keep PvP turned off in BFA

Scorchien

TheScavenger said:

Another PvP deathmatch MMO fails and is extremely niche like all the others. Now they need to add PVE servers because their hardcore PvP group is extremely niche in the MMO genre.

The only PvP deathmatch MMO that is successful is EVE, but it offers a ton of PVE content, "safer" (not safe, but safer) areas AND just added solo instances. Why doesn't anyone copy EVE if they want a deathmatch PvP MMO is beyond me.

Its why UO removed PvP pretty quickly in its life, and made it an option for those who want PvP. The game would not have seen the success it did if it remained a gankers paradise.

Its also why Blizzard tried very hard to entice people to PvP, they had to actually offer rewards, incentives and a small talent "tree" because barely anyone would PvP otherwise. We'll see how that works out, or if people still keep PvP turned off in BFA

The only problem with that UO theory is ... The most populated UO servers are all running Pre-Trammel rule sets , and filled 24/7 with people .. .. At times can barely get in the dam W Brit bank doors ..

MMOExposed

How about PvP Faction servers? 

anemo

MMOExposed said:

How about PvP Faction servers? 

They're working on an alliance system and some day territory control system.

Kyleran

I would not enjoy EVE on a PVE server, but some claim they would, have to assume they know what they enjoy.

I don't enjoy PVP, yet often play on PVP servers because it adds some challenge to the PVE that is generally missing from most games.

Like you noted, progression without some challenge is pretty pointless.  Trick is to not make it crushing, especially to newer players, at least until they get a good understanding of the game and a chance to make a few friends or join a guild.

I just started playing NMS, and I've been struggling a bit to get going.

I would not welcome the extra "challenge" of some experienced player trying to kill me at this point, but later on, sure, I'd take a risk if there was a decent reward for doing so.

Sovrath

ikcin said:

Kyleran said:

I would not enjoy EVE on a PVE server, but some claim they would, have to assume they know what they enjoy.

I don't enjoy PVP, yet often play on PVP servers because it adds some challenge to the PVE that is generally missing from most games.

Like you noted, progression without some challenge is pretty pointless.  Trick is to not make it crushing, especially to newer players, at least until they get a good understanding of the game and a chance to make a few friends or join a guild.

I just started playing NMS, and I've been struggling a bit to get going.

I would not welcome the extra "challenge" of some experienced player trying to kill me at this point, but later on, sure, I'd take a risk if there was a decent reward for doing so.

This is not about the PvP. Remember the Gothic 2 - pretty good game, maybe even the best RPG then. It never become popular in US as the gameplay was very harsh, the initial progression was harder even than that in DS series. Instead the US players played Morrowind. And G2 is much, much better.

At the same time G2 became very popular in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. So there are some customers behaviors related with the social mentality.

I don't know about Gothic 2 being "much better" than Morrowind. I'm all for "harsh". What I'm not for is "crap".

I've tried Gothic 2 several times and it's just junk. Maybe there is a good game in there but it's hard to find it. I liked the difficulty, the exploration but even with all the patches it's just wonky and buggy.

lahnmir

Torval said:

No Man's Sky is my PvE EVE.

No Mans Sky is my actually released SC game

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Sovrath

ikcin said:

Sovrath said:

I don't know about Gothic 2 being "much better" than Morrowind. I'm all for "harsh". What I'm not for is "crap".

I've tried Gothic 2 several times and it's just junk. Maybe there is a good game in there but it's hard to find it. I liked the difficulty, the exploration but even with all the patches it's just wonky and buggy.

Let count objectively - much better AI, better quest chains, better integrity, much better role playing (and I mean the differences in the storyline, but not how you hit or dress), much better physics. As AI, quest chains and physics G2 is comparable with Skyrim. I admit graphics could be subjective. Personally - G2 has better landscape, while Morrowind has definitely better NPCs/mobs design. With NoR expansion G2 is pretty polished. I did not see any significant bugs. The main reason most players stop playing G2 is the harsh start - they die a lot. The game has no tutorial, easy entering, clear zones for different levels. That is why you have to play very carefully and often even that is not enough. Maybe this is a bad game design for some - but I like it. G2 is a rare RPG where the win is not guaranteed. The next such games are maybe the DS series. And this is not only my opinion.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/39510/discussions/0/133256240736211322/

That's great, I played it fully updated and it was junky. I don't care about tutorials (don't need one) and I think npc ai should be great.

but when a game is wonky it's really hard to slog one's way through it.

and a few people think it's great? um great?

Sovrath

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Sovrath said:

ikcin said:

Kyleran said:

I would not enjoy EVE on a PVE server, but some claim they would, have to assume they know what they enjoy.

I don't enjoy PVP, yet often play on PVP servers because it adds some challenge to the PVE that is generally missing from most games.

Like you noted, progression without some challenge is pretty pointless.  Trick is to not make it crushing, especially to newer players, at least until they get a good understanding of the game and a chance to make a few friends or join a guild.

I just started playing NMS, and I've been struggling a bit to get going.

I would not welcome the extra "challenge" of some experienced player trying to kill me at this point, but later on, sure, I'd take a risk if there was a decent reward for doing so.

This is not about the PvP. Remember the Gothic 2 - pretty good game, maybe even the best RPG then. It never become popular in US as the gameplay was very harsh, the initial progression was harder even than that in DS series. Instead the US players played Morrowind. And G2 is much, much better.

At the same time G2 became very popular in Eastern Europe, Germany and Russia. So there are some customers behaviors related with the social mentality.

I don't know about Gothic 2 being "much better" than Morrowind. I'm all for "harsh". What I'm not for is "crap".

I've tried Gothic 2 several times and it's just junk. Maybe there is a good game in there but it's hard to find it. I liked the difficulty, the exploration but even with all the patches it's just wonky and buggy.

Ikcin has the bad habit of presenting his opinion as universal undeniable fact. Like here: "Gothic 2 is better than Morrowind".
And apples are better than oranges, too. Just because Captain Picard posted it on the Interweb.

hmmm, your ideas about apples intrigue me and I would like to subsribeto your newsletter ...

Vermillion_Raventhal

Gothic 2 was buggy or was it Gothic 1?  Both were good in a movie so bad and out there that its good way.  Don't remember it being challenging though.

Kyleran

ikcin said:

In fact the NPCs in G2 are so well made, specially in the German version, that can be compared with the TW3. It is the dream of the solo RPG or the so called PvE player. But most of these players do not like G2 because of the harsh gameplay. Imagine the TW3 - pretty easy, and well polished game, with only hardest mode available. Even then it will be an easy game, but I doubt it would become very popular in US. The trick is, and that is my personal opinion, the US players do not like the challenges. They are ready to spend countless hours for a quest, but not to lose. And the games where the skill is not replaceable with time, do not become very popular in US. Maybe I'm wrong for that, but it seems to me this is in general the mentality of the US players. And games like LoL, DS, Fortnite are changing that. And WA could be one of them.

Perhaps Americans don't like to lose because....we dont lose very often, so we are just not good at it? Who can say?

Solar_Prophet

People asked for this from the start and got shouted down and ridiculed by the player base and the devs. Of course, now that their game is failing hard, they want to try to appeal to PvE players to generate more cash. Too little, too late. Bossa had their chance to appeal to a wider demographic, but instead doubled down on catering to what is a very, very small group of notoriously fickle, entitled, and toxic MMO players. 

The only reason the game's tiny community is upset is because they won't have as many noobs to  grief. They want easy kills, not fair fights. 

Sovrath

ikcin said:

Sovrath said:

That's great, I played it fully updated and it was junky. I don't care about tutorials (don't need one) and I think npc ai should be great.

but when a game is wonky it's really hard to slog one's way through it.

and a few people think it's great? um great?

Now, that is obviously very subjective and biased. Objectively G2 is a good game with very well developed characters and NPCs, generic story, but well written and implemented, amazing quest chains, clunky action combat, open world design, excellent physics, mediocre to bad graphics - most of the landscape and lighting look good, but the characters look square.

Well then it's all kind of "objective and biased" isn't it? Including your statements.

But you know what? I'm willing to give it another chance. I don't have high hopes but perhaps I can have my own paradigm shift.

KnightFalz

ikcin said:

 Who will be the idiot to PvP then?

The people that enjoy PvP, I suspect, which is the ideal PvP player, is it not?

kitarad

KnightFalz said:

ikcin said:

 Who will be the idiot to PvP then?

The people that enjoy PvP, I suspect, which is the ideal PvP player, is it not?

Deck has to be stacked in their favour or else they don't bother mentality.

KnightFalz

ikcin said:

KnightFalz said:

ikcin said:

 Who will be the idiot to PvP then?

The people that enjoy PvP, I suspect, which is the ideal PvP player, is it not?

The people who enjoy PvP so much will play moba or FPS instead. There is not such a thing as PvP or PvE player. There are solo players and players who like to cooperate and compete. Most players are somewhere between.

Forget about the RP. Most people play the games for the progression. So if there is an easier way to progress they will use it. PvE server is simply an easier way. You remove the biggest challenge and risk - the other players. That is why the PvE servers mean all the servers will become PvE. And as most of the players never played an open world game like EVE or L2, they will be completely fine with such a game - solo PvE and instanced PvP. For most players this is the MMORPG. It is solo grind to PvP a bit, cooperate for raid a bit, and then grind more. In fact terrible gameplay.  

PvE server means just to break the OW game. The result, no matter of the game will be some kind of WoW clone. The core of WoW is that - the instances.

That will not make WA more popular. There are not millions of PvE players waiting for that game. These people have plenty of games to choose and they are a small niche - WoW, ESO, GW2, BDO and etc. WA is unique and this is a big advantage on the market. All they need is a good marketing. PvE server means the WA will compete with the existing solo focused MMORPGs for a shrinking player base.

Why would they change when they presumably enjoy the PvP where they are? If they wanted to PvP elsewhere they would have done so, as many already released Moba and FPS offered that already. Clearly, they wanted to PvP in Worlds Adrift, which they can continue to do.

The only way all the servers would become PvE is if the vast majority abandoned the PvP servers, such that they were always empty. That won't happen, unless the majority were only playing on PvP servers because they were the only option, and abandoned them once they had a choice which would mean they didn't want the PvP to begin with.

Players that are genuinely in WA for the PvP will stick with PvP servers. If those requesting a PvE server were happy with the games you mentioned they would have just gone there directly and not bothered with WA at all. No, those who wanted a PvE server option will return for it.

It will make WA more popular for those who wanted a PvE version of it.

If being unique was enough they wouldn't be shifting gears now, would they. Clearly they feel their PvP audience alone won't be enough, so are trying to broaden their appeal.

If it works, you'll still get to enjoy  PvP servers. If not, depending on how badly they need to expand their player base, it could be possible there will be no servers left for any to enjoy.

Lerxst

I haven't played the game since a few weeks after release, due to the griefing that took place anytime I spawned or tried to build a ship.

People on both sides of this, but ESPECIALLY THE DEVS, need to remember that PvP restrictions and PvP countermeasures are what makes for a good PvP experience.

The best example I have is a 90's MUD - full loot, open world PvP, that also penalized experience for each death (yes, you could essentially de-level if you died often). This was a harsh, hard-core game world... but...

There were mechanics built in to the game that counteract these PvP instances. One was having a +/- 2 to 6 level PvP targets, preventing the extreme level players for trouncing newbies in one hit. Though it allowed leeway for the lower levels, since a level 1 could pick a fight with a level 50 if they wanted to.

Another source of any in-game restriction were city guards (like UO implemented later) that would aid the defender in such PvP attacks within city limits.

The final feature was allowing for a variety of legitimate in-game ways to escape PvP for the non-PvPer. From teleportation, to invisibility, to hiding, sneaking, "detecting life", etc. if you got stuck in a PvP fight, you had no one to blame but yourself at that point!

Worlds Adrift failed at considering these details. Countless other "Open World PvP" games also fail miserably at considering these details. Thanks to all of these new PvP games, and their "hurry up and get it done" attitude that lacked any foresight into the future of their game, people cringe at hearing the 3 letters, PvP. When in fact, PvP should add a HUGE element of adrenaline packed fun and excitement for the non PvP player.

* And for the record, I never once killed a single player in my 4 years of playing that MUD. When you can charm them, and command them as pets, weaken them with plague and poison so they can't hold their weapons any longer, blind them (text becomes non-specifics "someones" and "somethings") , "sleep" and mute (Can't wake to move or defend themselves them, or chat on any of the in-game channels)  with spells, straight-forward PvP just doesn't become exciting anymore!