Felt like I paid to play a beta. Unfinished classes, terrible class changes, awful balance and tuning. It's legion 2.0 with worse class design and boring azerite traits that don't make up for the legion artifact system. My feral has been dumpstered and is completely unviable and I'm not waiting around until they take 6 months to finally fix it at the end of the expansion like they did in legion. Most classes are just dull and boring to play.
I don't really think the end game rep grind is that bad. If you really think about what you are grinding for, ultimately you only really need 2 reps finished in the near future. Also, by finished I mean Revered. (Champions of Azeroth / War Campaign based one) It is FAR less grindy then Legion as well. Once you are finished with those two reps the only world quests you really need to worry about are AP ones if you need it. (You don't if you are at those rep levels) The thing about the AP grind is that you don't need to unlock every trait on each Azerite piece. You just need the first 2. So right now if you are planning on doing Normal raids next week the highest neck level you need is only 20. At that point the catchup mechanic will be another tick (30% less per level) as well.
In legion you were FORCED to grind world quests until you got your two Legendaries it was BAD. I have actally ran out of stuff to do on my main and just focusing on alts...something I could not do in Legion for a looong time. You aren't wrong about the lack of "umph" for leveling though. It is pretty lame not earning any new abilities while leveling. There is plenty of progression at end game though; you can't really say a game is missing progression then say it is too grindy.. Also the war is for the whole expansion! It is like how Wrath of the Lich King was all about the lich king...but he was the final boss.
Tldr; WoW is as grindy as you want it to be. MMOs are supposed to be grindy and that is how they keep players playing. WoW is not grindy compared to other MMOs.
I don't really think the end game rep grind is that bad. If you really think about what you are grinding for, ultimately you only really need 2 reps finished in the near future. Also, by finished I mean Revered. (Champions of Azeroth / War Campaign based one) It is FAR less grindy then Legion as well. Once you are finished with those two reps the only world quests you really need to worry about are AP ones if you need it. (You don't if you are at those rep levels) The thing about the AP grind is that you don't need to unlock every trait on each Azerite piece. You just need the first 2. So right now if you are planning on doing Normal raids next week the highest neck level you need is only 20. At that point the catchup mechanic will be another tick (30% less per level) as well.
In legion you were FORCED to grind world quests until you got your two Legendaries it was BAD. I have actally ran out of stuff to do on my main and just focusing on alts...something I could not do in Legion for a looong time. You aren't wrong about the lack of "umph" for leveling though. It is pretty lame not earning any new abilities while leveling. There is plenty of progression at end game though; you can't really say a game is missing progression then say it is too grindy..
Tldr; WoW is as grindy as you want it to be. MMOs are supposed to be grindy and that is how they keep players playing. WoW is not grindy compared to other MMOs.
Bit inaccurate on only needing 2 since the 3rd is defensive on epic gear which you will definitely need for mythic raiding and higher tier keys, but it wont take that long to get I guess if you're planning to do that kind of content. That said, putting ilvls behind a rep grind was pretty stupid in terms of champions, since it makes it harder to realistically have alts decently geared. Takes about a couple of weeks if you're lucky with follower missions to hit revered which is a total of 45 ilvls on your neck (friendly/honored/revered) that you can't acquire any other way.
I don't really think the end game rep grind is that bad. If you really think about what you are grinding for, ultimately you only really need 2 reps finished in the near future. Also, by finished I mean Revered. (Champions of Azeroth / War Campaign based one) It is FAR less grindy then Legion as well. Once you are finished with those two reps the only world quests you really need to worry about are AP ones if you need it. (You don't if you are at those rep levels) The thing about the AP grind is that you don't need to unlock every trait on each Azerite piece. You just need the first 2. So right now if you are planning on doing Normal raids next week the highest neck level you need is only 20. At that point the catchup mechanic will be another tick (30% less per level) as well.
In legion you were FORCED to grind world quests until you got your two Legendaries it was BAD. I have actally ran out of stuff to do on my main and just focusing on alts...something I could not do in Legion for a looong time. You aren't wrong about the lack of "umph" for leveling though. It is pretty lame not earning any new abilities while leveling. There is plenty of progression at end game though; you can't really say a game is missing progression then say it is too grindy..
Tldr; WoW is as grindy as you want it to be. MMOs are supposed to be grindy and that is how they keep players playing. WoW is not grindy compared to other MMOs.
Bit inaccurate on only needing 2 since the 3rd is defensive on epic gear which you will definitely need for mythic raiding and higher tier keys, but it wont take that long to get I guess if you're planning to do that kind of content. That said, putting ilvls behind a rep grind was pretty stupid in terms of champions, since it makes it harder to realistically have alts decently geared. Takes about a couple of weeks if you're lucky with follower missions to hit revered which is a total of 45 ilvls on your neck (friendly/honored/revered) that you can't acquire any other way.
Ehhh the 3rd is pretty minor and unless you are in the top 1% you won't need it. Can't disagree about ilvls behind Champions rep. It is pretty lame. When I found out that Exalted doesn't give ilvls though that made me care far less about it since getting to revered isn't terribly hard. I am pretty confident they will just remove the ilvls though in 8.1 and just make them a core part of the neck. Maybe sooner.
Now that you've reviewed it, any chance you could fix the information on your WoW game page on this site? It says there are only five expansions, and puts way too many "and"s in the list in ways that make it look like someone repeatedly tacked one more onto the end without subsequently re-reading the sentence. I'm also not sure what a retail price of $20 means, as it's $50 to buy Battle for Azeroth, and requires only a subscription otherwise.
Taking away something only to give it back to you later. Seems like a common MMORPG thing lately. At least in with Blizzard and WoW when they take it away you can grind to get it back. In STO, Cryptic takes things away only to sell them back to you later. Sub players have it much bette than F2P.
gonna check wow after 10 month if its have finally "open content/races/flying".
Flying? I quit the game in early 2015 after seven years played because the devs actually listened to some hipsters who griped that seeing players on flying mounts disrupted their sense of immersion. Are flying mounts still locked behind a wall of faction grinding and other assorted BS?
I thoroughly hated having to travel on the ground in Draenor because the landscape was so annoyingly broken and the in-game maps didn't even represent it accurately. I was thinking about giving the game another shot, but if those problems remain then I might stay away for another two expansions.
Rep Grinding is Blizzards way to keep people subscribed. Simple Fact. The longer something takes, the more they make.
A common business approach that works for Blizzard, but is starting to be realized by many that it's not fun anymore grinding and using our time to make Blizzard more money.
It's like we are their employees, grinding for them and eliminating our fun slowly but surely.
Not necessarily. MMORPGs are made for the long term, not instant gratification. That's what vanilla/tbc/wotlk had that no other content after that did. inb4 nostalgia justifications.
3.4 million subs? Out of 11 million ? Yeap..wow sucks lately. They remove artifact power and they replace it with Azerite power !! You do a war campaign for your faction but you are NOT getting rep towards your faction. And all this for some Idiot Dev, with stupid Ideas. I had 4 accounts and now I barely hold on to 1 account. All classes had different quest, now everyone have same quests. NOT alt friendly either. Buying expansion was my worst mistake, but I learn and Not going to happen again..!!
So wait, everything that is core to an MMO is missing or incomplete, class balance is whack (more so than at launch for any prior expansion), and... MMORPG gave it an 8.1? O_o It's almost like this place is run by amateurs.
gonna check wow after 10 month if its have finally "open content/races/flying".
You understand regardless of when you check back you will still have to grind for access to all of the above?
Yeah, but with content maturity and the scaling Blizzard puts in on systems like that... we'll have to grind waaaay less, so we'll get to experience the content in a larger chunk over a shorter period of time. That's precisely how it was in Legion, and BfA is following the same MO. In a couple of patches, release grind systems will be nerfed. Those grind systems are only there to slow down the bulk of initial purchasers from draining content too quickly. What they learned from Warlords was that content droughts can be averted with stop-gaps. How do you think new Legion purchasers a couple months prior to BfA got to the last tier of raids in a few weeks? It was because they weren't even vaguely doing the same grinds that early-adopters had to go through.
The honest truth of BfA is that it's an incomplete expansion, second only to Warlords in those terms. Stuff that was supposed to release on launch, according to Blizzard, is not in the game. Core content appears to have been under-designed. Progression systems don't appear to have been implemented in their completed form. Class and spec design for BfA - let alone balance - has not been completed. The story seems like a "stop-gap" setup for the Void that will be abandoned and events excused along arbitrary lines (like every other "omg we're going to war" storyline has been abandoned). Credit to Blizzard: they effectively admitted all of this during beta and pre-launch (that the expansion was incomplete, and wouldn't be feature complete until a later patch, such that launch is effectively early access); however, it is truly sad and tragic to see people so blind to the reality of things that they give BfA 8.1, even though the "MMO" bits of this "MMO" aren't WAI. It's truly sad and tragic to see people defending the problems BfA has without the dignity of a balanced opinion grounded in truth. The myside bias is strong in many WoW fans (not all, admittedly).
I love WoW, I'll play it when it's a complete and finished experience based on their pre-launch statements. I'm not buying into the hype.
I agree with the pros. The zones and story-telling are wonderful and so atmospheric.
But thats it for me. I will not renew after my sub runs out later next month. I will be 120 by then and completed the story. But what I hate is the lack of progression. You get nothing when you level anymore - no new skills, no new talents, just access to things that are gated by pointless levels like island expeditions and certain quests.
The content is well designed; the progression not so much. That is why I am done after 120.
They've gotten rid of so much leveling progression over the years, it's kind of sad really. Scaling sounds like a nightmare as well. I'm hoping for classic WOW in 2019.
What I continually grind my teeth over is the dearth of weapons on BfA. I got a 315 2-handed sword for my BDK early on. Since then, the only weapons that have dropped have been green and the only ones available so far in world quests have been 1-handed.
FFS...if they can make Azerite Armor & Caches drop spec-specific gear, why the hell can't they make World Quests drop spec-specific weapons? It's ridiculous.
I also think that, at least in their current incarnation, Island Expeditions are terrible. The same basic premise regardless of island or mobs (far too many crocs) with little or no rewards. Hell, I can go run 3-4 WQs and get 5x the amount of Azerite power. They're just not worth the time at the moment and that further makes me nervous about Warfronts.
Bland. That pretty much sums up this expansion. For PvP folks, it's probably the most exciting thing to happen in years, but outside of that it's just bland.
Islands is a mechanic thrown in to give the expansion some heft, but they are pretty damn boring and a terrible time-sink.
Six months from now this expansion might be ready to be played.
I think Blizzard are confused right now. They understood that some of the features and mechanics in Vanilla had some merits and tried to implement it to the Live version. As a Vanilla supporter I think they should not do that.
WoW Live (and its player base) is so completely different from Vanilla that trying to implement some of the old gameplay will actually alienate current subscribers.
Well said FrodoFragins, I am also expecting some classic upgrades in 2019. Just like the clash of clans come up with a new update and increase their popularity again.
Im reaching max level, get gears up, do all the instance, this time, full gears set in mystic.
but after, im alway bored, the rep grind not something who make me log back in, the pvp not realy well done even if they have try to make it better, the only thing left for me would be harder mystic instance and raid, for get better loots.
but all my quest are done, and since im not realy enjoying the pvp... it mean nothing.....
idk why, but eso can keep me hooked far longer that wow, same for final fantasy 14 and many others mmorpg, hell even revelation online a crappy f2p games got me hooked for 4 month.....
for me wow that only a very short time love, im not understanding why, they are blizzard, they should be good to keep peoples hooked... i feel like they try do it only with gears grind and rep grinds....
the npc mission become totaly useless after you unlock all the zone and finish the main story...
im not understanding why im bored of wow so fast all the time....
maybe they could add better garnison ( they have make it useless ), daily reward ??
daily mission ??? the world mission give only useless reward or reputation at some point.
the island got me after bored after something like 20 runs, when you notice that always the same.
im waiting until the 5 and will probably unsubs yet again, but all the time, i think.
it worth it for sure !! got alot of fun play wow again.
Since the launch of BFA I've been mostly playing my main (90%+ of my time). I've been going through and hitting all the quests I could find, following the story etc
I've started to find my log in time going down and as some others have mentioned its odd. The expansion seems solid enough and perhaps even one of the better ones. A couple things that stand out to me:
Weapons as mentioned. For two handed users a one handed weapon shows up and for Hunters only a polearm shows up (as the 325+ option either as a WQ or Emissary reward).
Normally I play a lot of alts. Currently I have zero motivation to play another character through everything. This becomes a "thing" when you consider that the Allied Races all require Reputation unlocks. For a reason I can't explain this wasn't really an issue for me in Legion. I have all four of the Allied races that could be unlocked with the pre-order... unlocked. I even leveled those for the Heritage Armor etc
I will of course unlocked the two newer Allied Races... but I can't honestly see me leveling either one of them. Unless my desire to log in or play through everything again suddenly changes. I'm not really sure why it didn't bother me during Legion... and with BFA I have no desire to play through any of it again.
I hate the Pathfinder grinding for access to flying.
I'm still grinding WoD's Pathfinder to this day, as playing solo on my alts and getting through WoD sucks ballzzzz, or maybe I just hate the WoD Pathfinder grind.
Legion didn't seem as bad, and BfA's seems improved over Legion also.
When I get to this point where I log in, do the same sort of dailies to move a little bar, then log out, it's about time for me to move on.
Luckily, I'm on my Horde and experiencing the story from their perspective, so that should give me another month of play time the way I play.
After that, if I STILL don't have WoD Pathfinder/flying unlocked for my alts, I'll move on to something else.
I've been playing for a month trying to unlock the allied races and I unknowingly screwed up my 3 highest level characters by getting them over lvl 110, now i can't finish the Legion Storylines because they are tied to dungeons and raids which got locked after hitting lvl 111.
I'm really hating that. Leveling a new character to lvl 100-109 then locking exp gain seems more appealing yet much slower than trying to get high ilvl enough to solo those dungeons.
It's really upsetting.
Other than that i'm loving the open world content.
So apparently folks aren't supposed to be getting items beyond iLvl 355 yet. However, folks have gotten Mythic dungeon rewards of iLvls up to 385. Someone in my guild linked a reward from the Warfront WQs that was at level 390 lol.
These folks responsible for itemization in BfA. Whoowee.
So apparently folks aren't supposed to be getting items beyond iLvl 355 yet. However, folks have gotten Mythic dungeon rewards of iLvls up to 385. Someone in my guild linked a reward from the Warfront WQs that was at level 390 lol.
These folks responsible for itemization in BfA. Whoowee.
It's a bug. Those items will get revoked.
I think so too. That's a pretty large gap in item level. I don't think they let the mythic+ go live with those items still in players' hands.
Comments
In legion you were FORCED to grind world quests until you got your two Legendaries it was BAD. I have actally ran out of stuff to do on my main and just focusing on alts...something I could not do in Legion for a looong time. You aren't wrong about the lack of "umph" for leveling though. It is pretty lame not earning any new abilities while leveling. There is plenty of progression at end game though; you can't really say a game is missing progression then say it is too grindy.. Also the war is for the whole expansion! It is like how Wrath of the Lich King was all about the lich king...but he was the final boss.
Tldr; WoW is as grindy as you want it to be. MMOs are supposed to be grindy and that is how they keep players playing. WoW is not grindy compared to other MMOs.
Bit inaccurate on only needing 2 since the 3rd is defensive on epic gear which you will definitely need for mythic raiding and higher tier keys, but it wont take that long to get I guess if you're planning to do that kind of content. That said, putting ilvls behind a rep grind was pretty stupid in terms of champions, since it makes it harder to realistically have alts decently geared. Takes about a couple of weeks if you're lucky with follower missions to hit revered which is a total of 45 ilvls on your neck (friendly/honored/revered) that you can't acquire any other way.
Ehhh the 3rd is pretty minor and unless you are in the top 1% you won't need it. Can't disagree about ilvls behind Champions rep. It is pretty lame. When I found out that Exalted doesn't give ilvls though that made me care far less about it since getting to revered isn't terribly hard. I am pretty confident they will just remove the ilvls though in 8.1 and just make them a core part of the neck. Maybe sooner.
Flying? I quit the game in early 2015 after seven years played because the devs actually listened to some hipsters who griped that seeing players on flying mounts disrupted their sense of immersion. Are flying mounts still locked behind a wall of faction grinding and other assorted BS?
I thoroughly hated having to travel on the ground in Draenor because the landscape was so annoyingly broken and the in-game maps didn't even represent it accurately. I was thinking about giving the game another shot, but if those problems remain then I might stay away for another two expansions.
Not necessarily. MMORPGs are made for the long term, not instant gratification. That's what vanilla/tbc/wotlk had that no other content after that did. inb4 nostalgia justifications.
asdasdasd
I have yet to see one PvP encounter. I'm about 10 hours gameplay time into level 120 and nada!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
You understand regardless of when you check back you will still have to grind for access to all of the above?
Yeah, but with content maturity and the scaling Blizzard puts in on systems like that... we'll have to grind waaaay less, so we'll get to experience the content in a larger chunk over a shorter period of time. That's precisely how it was in Legion, and BfA is following the same MO. In a couple of patches, release grind systems will be nerfed. Those grind systems are only there to slow down the bulk of initial purchasers from draining content too quickly. What they learned from Warlords was that content droughts can be averted with stop-gaps. How do you think new Legion purchasers a couple months prior to BfA got to the last tier of raids in a few weeks? It was because they weren't even vaguely doing the same grinds that early-adopters had to go through.
The honest truth of BfA is that it's an incomplete expansion, second only to Warlords in those terms. Stuff that was supposed to release on launch, according to Blizzard, is not in the game. Core content appears to have been under-designed. Progression systems don't appear to have been implemented in their completed form. Class and spec design for BfA - let alone balance - has not been completed. The story seems like a "stop-gap" setup for the Void that will be abandoned and events excused along arbitrary lines (like every other "omg we're going to war" storyline has been abandoned). Credit to Blizzard: they effectively admitted all of this during beta and pre-launch (that the expansion was incomplete, and wouldn't be feature complete until a later patch, such that launch is effectively early access); however, it is truly sad and tragic to see people so blind to the reality of things that they give BfA 8.1, even though the "MMO" bits of this "MMO" aren't WAI. It's truly sad and tragic to see people defending the problems BfA has without the dignity of a balanced opinion grounded in truth. The myside bias is strong in many WoW fans (not all, admittedly). I love WoW, I'll play it when it's a complete and finished experience based on their pre-launch statements. I'm not buying into the hype.
Bland. That pretty much sums up this expansion. For PvP folks, it's probably the most exciting thing to happen in years, but outside of that it's just bland.
Islands is a mechanic thrown in to give the expansion some heft, but they are pretty damn boring and a terrible time-sink.
Six months from now this expansion might be ready to be played.
They understood that some of the features and mechanics in Vanilla had some merits and tried to implement it to the Live version.
As a Vanilla supporter I think they should not do that.
WoW Live (and its player base) is so completely different from Vanilla that trying to implement some of the old gameplay will actually alienate current subscribers.
Vanilla and Live should do their own thing.
I'm actually expecting a D2 remaster as well.
Im reaching max level, get gears up, do all the instance, this time, full gears set in mystic.
but after, im alway bored, the rep grind not something who make me log back in, the pvp not realy well done even if they have try to make it better, the only thing left for me would be harder mystic instance and raid, for get better loots.
but all my quest are done, and since im not realy enjoying the pvp... it mean nothing.....
idk why, but eso can keep me hooked far longer that wow, same for final fantasy 14 and many others mmorpg, hell even revelation online a crappy f2p games got me hooked for 4 month.....
for me wow that only a very short time love, im not understanding why, they are blizzard, they should be good to keep peoples hooked... i feel like they try do it only with gears grind and rep grinds....
the npc mission become totaly useless after you unlock all the zone and finish the main story...
im not understanding why im bored of wow so fast all the time....
maybe they could add better garnison ( they have make it useless ), daily reward ??
daily mission ??? the world mission give only useless reward or reputation at some point.
the island got me after bored after something like 20 runs, when you notice that always the same.
im waiting until the 5 and will probably unsubs yet again, but all the time, i think.
it worth it for sure !! got alot of fun play wow again.
waiting for the next exp i guess
I've started to find my log in time going down and as some others have mentioned its odd. The expansion seems solid enough and perhaps even one of the better ones. A couple things that stand out to me:
Weapons as mentioned. For two handed users a one handed weapon shows up and for Hunters only a polearm shows up (as the 325+ option either as a WQ or Emissary reward).
Normally I play a lot of alts. Currently I have zero motivation to play another character through everything. This becomes a "thing" when you consider that the Allied Races all require Reputation unlocks. For a reason I can't explain this wasn't really an issue for me in Legion. I have all four of the Allied races that could be unlocked with the pre-order... unlocked. I even leveled those for the Heritage Armor etc
I will of course unlocked the two newer Allied Races... but I can't honestly see me leveling either one of them. Unless my desire to log in or play through everything again suddenly changes. I'm not really sure why it didn't bother me during Legion... and with BFA I have no desire to play through any of it again.
I'm still grinding WoD's Pathfinder to this day, as playing solo on my alts and getting through WoD sucks ballzzzz, or maybe I just hate the WoD Pathfinder grind.
Legion didn't seem as bad, and BfA's seems improved over Legion also.
When I get to this point where I log in, do the same sort of dailies to move a little bar, then log out, it's about time for me to move on.
Luckily, I'm on my Horde and experiencing the story from their perspective, so that should give me another month of play time the way I play.
After that, if I STILL don't have WoD Pathfinder/flying unlocked for my alts, I'll move on to something else.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
These folks responsible for itemization in BfA. Whoowee.
EDIT- to correct myself.