A kinder, gentler EVE on the horizon?

Kyleran

So with CCP reporting to new masters who will be very interested in  quickly making back their $425M investment they might consider dialing back on the aggression a bit.

I'm talking about high sec in particular, over the years it became increasingly more dangerous either from CCP making it easier to gank with low risk or players being bored enough to figure new ways around the existing controls.

I believe Pearl Abyss would see more PVE oriented players return if high sec was made safer or the risk / cost / penalties to suicide gank were greatly increased.

Doesn't have to be eliminated, just very strongly discouraged. Yeah I know, many will argue against, say how "easy" it is to avoid.

For newer players its not and even seasoned vets get unpleasantly surprised from time to time and pay dearly for it.

Also, the current design inspires too much paranoia, can't move anything thru HS on autopilot, not even a shuttle without someone trying to wack it for lulz.

I learned how to stay safe but all of the extra effort to do so (which entirely falls on the "gankee") grows very wearisome, too much so, at least for me which is why I spent most of my time in null sec in later years where intel networks were better and you could clearly see the bad guys coming.

TEKK3N

I never understood why EvE went backwards on their approach to PvP.
It was perfect.

Whenever I played a FFA PVP game (Ex: Darkfall) and the game failed, I always maintained they should have done it the EvE way.
Add safe zones, build a factions system that works, generally give the carebears reasons to play the game or at least not to quit in frustration.

The only reason why I didn't play EvE for longer, was because I get bored spending hours in space.
But the game itself was really engaging.
I always said that my perfect PvP game would be Darkfall settings + Eve mechanics.

So why EvE went the Darkfall way is a mystery to me.

I hope PA will revert those changing for the sake of the game.

Kyleran

They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

Scot

EVE is not a typical MMO ((is it even one, not sure we ever worked that out )) so the strategy for getting the investment back is hard to fathom. But the temptation must surely be to use what has worked before in their other MMOs.

I can only use BDO as an example but I would not be shocked if you find under Pearl Abyss that ships can be upgraded to new tiers of competence. You can grind away forever to get the credits need to attempt a randomly based upgrade or buy items in store to sell to others for the credits needed. Did I mention if the roll fails the ship is destroyed unless you buy ship upgrade insurance? You get some insurance from failed upgrade attempts but usually lose several second rate ships getting enough insurance to ensure that your best ship will make the next competence level.

Have fun.

Seriously I hope it works out well, EVE deserves better than the BDO system.

Elsabolts

I quit Eve 3 different times because of the ganking, why should one pay a monthly fee to get ganked was how it finally sunk in and quit for good.

Kyleran

Well if EVE isnt a MMO with 20K to 30K concurrent accounts logged into a single universe than I'm not sure what game qualifies.

Of course with EVE's reputation for multiboxing perhaps that only amounts to a couple of hundred actual players.

Grunty

If you buy the Pearl Abyss company line they bought CCP mostly to learn how they do things so well.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/06/ceo-robin-jung-tells-why-pearl-abyss-bought-eve-online-maker/

Kyleran

Grunty said:

If you buy the Pearl Abyss company line they bought CCP mostly to learn how they do things so well.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/06/ceo-robin-jung-tells-why-pearl-abyss-bought-eve-online-maker/

Good article, will be interesting to see how quickly Pearl Abyss's corporate culture and influence will begin to be felt.

MadFrenchie

I just wish they pulled CCP off EVE (sorry EVE fans!) and put them back on a WoD game.

Scorchien

By New Years they begin to patch  there shop into Eve , i dont see one reason to believe one word they say ..

Asch126

After they decided to finally send BDO into full P2W territory, i'm just gonna wait till they suddenly add P2W mechanics into EVE.

Tiller

Kyleran said:

They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

The only way to get PvE players to PvP more is to decrease the penalties for death imho.

Mendel

I never got into EVE, not because of the ganking, but because the font on the interface was simply too small for me to read.  And it isn't (or wasn't) adjustable.  Can't see the Paradox-style outliner interface; no way to control my ship; no reason to play.

Granted, if I had been able to play, I probably wouldn't have liked EVE due to the ganking.  The game didn't give me the chance to make that decision.

Wizardry

I NEVER wanted to change Eve into something kinder gentler,i simply wanted Eve to be a fully fledged space game and not some shallow ship versus ship pvp borefest.To me that is like playing the 1970's Asteroids,replace rocks with ships,no difference,some floating around in space,gravity and pew pew each other.
Oh wait there is an economy,that is NOT nor does it make a shallow game ...a GAME!.
Everyone knows what had to be done,many talked about it for a long time,they needed to change the game engine build a complete game but instead just continued to ride the coat tails of what is an easy sell in a low competition market.\

BUILD a game,don't try and sell me some shallow battle Royale OR MOBA,i am looking for HQ,solid effort game designs not stuff 5 people can pull off in their basement over 1 year or less.

JeffSpicoli

Wait is this about changes to HI-sec or Null sec. If they are making to changes to hi sec I'd have to ask why? When i played no one ganked Hi sec null sec was where the risk was at. Im confused.

Sandmanjw

My first thought on reading the news...

New PVE servers for Eve...

Kyleran

thunderC said:

Wait is this about changes to HI-sec or Null sec. If they are making to changes to hi sec I'd have to ask why? When i played no one ganked Hi sec null sec was where the risk was at. Im confused.

Hi sec actually, far more dangerous than null sec these days. (IMO)

JeffSpicoli

Kyleran said:

thunderC said:

Wait is this about changes to HI-sec or Null sec. If they are making to changes to hi sec I'd have to ask why? When i played no one ganked Hi sec null sec was where the risk was at. Im confused.

Hi sec actually, far more dangerous than null sec these days. (IMO)

How could that be, Refresh my memory, Null sec was what you entered when worm hole jumping correct? That was the place id get ganked after hacking big scores. Why is Hi sec now i a gank fest i dont get it

Kyleran

Nyctelios said:

HS ganking was always a issue to a point the harassment report became a joke. I had a friend being openly harassed by a group of players who sent him mails telling they would keep following him and making sure he wouldn't play the game.

He had a 3 DAYS account! With just a few hours of playtime!!!

I invited this friend to play, well, what a surprise that he don't want to even hear about the game ever again.

After that episode I had to deal with a multiboxer bot (15 bots) drying up high sec areas. We actually used fraps to film the automation, the contacts, everything. And the report lead to nothing.

So... The problemas aren't as much a gameplay mechanic issues as they are simply CCP ignoring complains (behavior and explotative) from such players because they are whales and shove cash on it.

Someone using 15 bots is someone paying for 15 accounts and injecting PLEX. Against 5 guys trying to make a living with a small minning corp in high sec to have fun.

Edit: misspell

One thing I can thank CODE for is an awesome spec for a cheap miner bumping cruiser fit with an oversize MWD.

When bot fleets appeared in "my system" I'd bump their ships 125-150 KM out of the field.

Too far to slow boat back, not far enough to warp back to the field.

Funny thing, bumping in high sec is against the rules, but what botter is going to report you?

What they will do however is hire some mercs to war deck you.....so only do this with unaffiliated alts and claim to be from one of the other corps in the system, preferably one with few English speakers so they can't follow what you are doing.

cheyane

Torval said:

Grunty said:

If you buy the Pearl Abyss company line they bought CCP mostly to learn how they do things so well.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/06/ceo-robin-jung-tells-why-pearl-abyss-bought-eve-online-maker/

That may be why Pearl Abyss bought CCP, but that isn't why CCP sold itself. Everything isn't all right at the Circle K.

My personal made up baseless opinion is that people are tired of traditional MMOs. Gamers interested in PvP want to play something with an even playing field and match based algorithms that pit them against like skilled players. The novelty of open PvP tripped over itself because gamers exploited progression mechanics to leverage heavy advantages. That only stays interesting for so long.

Also people are just tired of the same games over and over and over again for two decades now. That's what MMOs have become. Even though they seem so different from their first gen parents the core gameplay loop has barely changed. We know everything about an MMO and its mechanics before the game even launches. The game becomes irrelevant and it devolves into a contest of who gets there first. MMOs are the most expensive games to play, yes they are "cheap by the hour" but still want to continually milk the user for money and a lot of people I know aren't doing that anymore.

TL;DR - MMOs are doing better than ever. Traditional MMOs are dead (or rather in their death throes). We're watching the event unfold now. I think it's kind of sad.

I feel that PvP should be like that on a more balanced and fair ground. This is probably why games like PUBG and Fornite are doing this well. It probably evens the playfield somewhat.

Nyctelios said:

HS ganking was always a issue to a point the harassment report became a joke. I had a friend being openly harassed by a group of players who sent him mails telling they would keep following him and making sure he wouldn't play the game.

He had a 3 DAYS account! With just a few hours of playtime!!!

I invited this friend to play, well, what a surprise that he don't want to even hear about the game ever again.

After that episode I had to deal with a multiboxer bot (15 bots) drying up high sec areas. We actually used fraps to film the automation, the contacts, everything. And the report lead to nothing.

So... The problemas aren't as much a gameplay mechanic issues as they are simply CCP ignoring complains (behavior and explotative) from such players because they are whales and shove cash on it.

Someone using 15 bots is someone paying for 15 accounts and injecting PLEX. Against 5 guys trying to make a living with a small minning corp in high sec to have fun.

Edit: misspell

What possible satisfaction do they get from targeting your friend or any player like that ? Sometimes I wonder about these types of people? They just destroy their own game.

Octagon7711

Sounds like CCP realized the only way to deal with the tenants was to sell the building.  Pretty much seems like the tenants were running the building.

Kyleran

Octagon7711 said:

Sounds like CCP realized the only way to deal with the tenants was to sell the building.  Pretty much seems like the tenants were running the building.

Some might refer to it as the inmates running the prison.

QuarterStack

Kyleran said:

I'm talking about high sec in particular, over the years it became increasingly more dangerous either from CCP making it easier to gank with low risk or players being bored enough to figure new ways around the existing controls.

I believe Pearl Abyss would see more PVE oriented players return if high sec was made safer or the risk / cost / penalties to suicide gank were greatly increased.

Doesn't have to be eliminated, just very strongly discouraged. 

This exactly. 1000 times yes.

I think I went into length about this in another thread (or maybe it was another site), but I'll reiterate here:

I stopped playing after being gate-ganked in high sec (0.8), with no *actual* penalty to the ganker. It wasn't even a valuable kill for the ganker. I was in a Tech 1 ship, with just a couple Tech 1 fittings and 5 Tech 1 drones in bay; on my way to a nearby station to pick up a skill book. It was clearly for the "lulz". The ganker got nothing, and likely wanted nothing else out of it.

What bothered me isn't that I was ganked. It's a PvP MMO. It's going to happen. Been no different in any other PvP MMO I've played.

What bothered me is that there was absolutely no real repercussion for the ganker. No meaningful disincentive. Nothing to deter it or at the very least, make it seriously difficult/challenging to do what they do.

As a "consolation" I was informed that Concord would have shown up *after* I was destroyed and likely destroyed them, as though that was supposed to make the situation okay. That's the statement that made me say "yeah, no thanks" and log out for the last time.

CCP either doesn't understand the ganker mindset, or they do and seek to actively encourage it.

A ganker/griefer *knows* what's at stake. They *know* they're going to be killed at some point. They don't care. It's the same in any other PvP MMO where you can gain 'Criminal' status for killing an "innocent". 

Destroying them *after* they've gotten their kill is *not* a deterrent. It's giving them a head-start and a green light to do exactly what they're there to do, without interference. Why wouldn't they do it?

The only way to truly deter and reduce that kind of activity is to rob the ganker of their moment, and make their lives really difficult in high-sec areas. The only thing they care about is the "satisfaction" of killing an unprepared target. So you don't let them have it, or make them work *really* hard for it

A better way to deal with them is to "speak their language". The moment they open fire or engage in any other aggressive action toward an 'innocent', do to them what they do to their targets. Shut them down, make them a sitting duck... and then destroy them. All while their would-be target gets to sit and watch - and perhaps even loot the remains once they're destroyed. Humiliate them. Shut them down. Rob them of their "victory", cheap as it is.

Beyond that, have gate sentries around high-sec areas. Give them some push-back. If you're a criminal, you aren't going to be able to just hang around at high-sec space warp gates without resistance. 

Don't eliminate their ability to do what they do.. just make it a hell of a lot harder to do. Make them work for their kills.

Failing that, or some similarly effective remedy... stop calling it "High Sec". There's nothing "secure" about being destroyed and podded before any kind of help shows up.

For those who might say "well, High Sec is supposed to be dangerous". I agree. It should be, and can be in many ways. Point is, if it's dangerous for regular players, it should be even more so for gankers/gate campers. Right now, it isn't.

QuarterStack

Kyleran said:

They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

Another misguided idea by CCP.

If it's supposed to be "a sandbox" allowing for many playstyles, then PvE should be as encouraged and supported as PvP.

They shouldn't be trying to "encourage" PvE players to PvP more if that's not what they want to do. That sounds to me like they know the PvE game is lacking, and so encouraging PvP is a good way to distract people from that fact.

If you're providing a so-called sandbox environment to players, then you have to support and encourage all playstyles. Or don't call it a sandbox.

High Security Space that isn't really secure, in a "Sandbox" where one playstyle is favored and promoted above others. CCP should stop using terms they don't understand.

No wonder the population's been stagnating/dropping.

TEKK3N

It became safer playing in Null Sec rather than High Sec.

That tells you everything there is to know about EVE and CCP.
Clueless. They just gave in to the loud hardcore pvp minority, and the result is the game is dying.

Phry

TEKK3N said:

It became safer playing in Null Sec rather than High Sec.

That tells you everything there is to know about EVE and CCP.
Clueless. They just gave in to the loud hardcore pvp minority, and the result is the game is dying.

No, High sec is definitely safer now that stricter limitations have been placed on Corps so that being wardec'd in high sec is now a hell of a lot harder to do, if not impossible. The focus is definitely shifting away from PVP towards PVE.