I'm only 2-3 hours in so far, and I'm just loving it. I played BT 1-3 as a kid when they first came out, and this is a very nice continuation of the series.
Hmm 8.8 ,not buying that for one second.I might believe a 6 else i figure everything said is blown out of proportion,over stated.
It is a RPG,we better hear about the characterization "NOT the paper doll crap" and hear about the combat structure,the npc's,HOW is the world tied together etc etc.This sounded awfully close to a simple advertisement or something written for this site by someone else.
First of all ,the early advertising was not true,DnD is the game that spawned all the rpg's,never once through my gaming career did Bard's Tale do anything other than be a title out there.
Game your way,yeah nice sales pitch.
A guide comes with game,that can really give fake impressions of a game because most of us by now realize that allowing players to win win is a win win in the PR/marketing/media area.Instead keep the INTEGRITY of the game,if an area is too hard ,then absorb the feedback instead of just giving them, the answers.
The systems sound pretty darn cheap,like a bunch of levers to push and likely even with sparklies like many games do,in other words a lot of hand holding and that is not good enough,just look in the guide.
There is a sense of accomplishment in doing it yourself,remove that option and players will lean towards just looking up the answers.
I don't think 8.8 is accurate. I see mixed reviews on steam so far.......hmmmm. Whats the TRUTH about the game? Is it decent or crap?
Each and every review is a personal opinion. Even reviews that claim that the game plays like crap, others with basically the same setups say the opposite.
Wait a few days, to weeks...watch some streams on the web, and if still interested buy it on steam and skip the intro/tutorial (so you do not waste your refund time) and play the game for an hour. If it runs well, and you are still interested then re-start and enjoy. If not, refund and move on.
Let me start off by saying that I am huge Brian Fargo fan - I back all of his projects and am a BT4 backer.
I am also an avid Bards Tale 1-3 fan, having mapped all 3 games by hand when they originally came out as well as finishing all 3 many times.
I have about 6, almost 7 hours into BT4 and sadly for me this is nowhere a 8.8 game - it might not even be a 6 at this point, the more I play the more I realize that this is not good.
Not going to go into lore problems, nor performance nor any technical issues - but actual gameplay - its just lacking in a huge way:
- the entire stat system is completely dumbed down and is just badly implemented. The original games had a system that made sense - why scrap that and put in this atrocity? - levels dont make any difference, again this was working perfect in 1-3, completely took all fun out of leveling - no random encounters - a staple feature of original trilogy gone - gear is a simple modification to the simple stat system - again not good - a small fraction of spells from #1 - what happened?
The combat - ugh - this is a big one - it's not good, I understand that they took a risk at trying the grid based approach but it just isn't fun, it's slow and doesnt feel rewarding.
The combat feels like a simple puzzle with awful pacing, it also limits greatly the fun of fighting multiple large groups of enemies- again a staple of the original trilogy.
Gone is the frantic and exciting pace of BT1-3 combat.
Just feeling bad for Brian at this point - the steam reviews sadly are more in line with what I have experienced - this is not even close to 8.8 game.
The difference between reviews from people who paid to play rather than a website that makes money off of advertising from games like this, maybe? I mean, it's pretty rare to see mmorpg.com give a bad review of any game. I don't know that they get any money from the BT4 developers, but it seems suspicious that their review is once again out of whack with Steam. 44% of the 117 reviews currently on Steam are positive. They aren't even batting .500. I know it's just been released, but you know what they say about first impressions.
Let me start off by saying that I am huge Brian Fargo fan - I back all of his projects and am a BT4 backer.
I am also an avid Bards Tale 1-3 fan, having mapped all 3 games by hand when they originally came out as well as finishing all 3 many times.
I have about 6, almost 7 hours into BT4 and sadly for me this is nowhere a 8.8 game - it might not even be a 6 at this point, the more I play the more I realize that this is not good.
Not going to go into lore problems, nor performance nor any technical issues - but actual gameplay - its just lacking in a huge way:
- the entire stat system is completely dumbed down and is just badly implemented. The original games had a system that made sense - why scrap that and put in this atrocity? - levels dont make any difference, again this was working perfect in 1-3, completely took all fun out of leveling - no random encounters - a staple feature of original trilogy gone - gear is a simple modification to the simple stat system - again not good - a small fraction of spells from #1 - what happened?
The combat - ugh - this is a big one - it's not good, I understand that they took a risk at trying the grid based approach but it just isn't fun, it's slow and doesnt feel rewarding.
The combat feels like a simple puzzle with awful pacing, it also limits greatly the fun of fighting multiple large groups of enemies- again a staple of the original trilogy.
Gone is the frantic and exciting pace of BT1-3 combat.
Just feeling bad for Brian at this point - the steam reviews sadly are more in line with what I have experienced - this is not even close to 8.8 game.
The difference between reviews from people who paid to play rather than a website that makes money off of advertising from games like this, maybe? I mean, it's pretty rare to see mmorpg.com give a bad review of any game. I don't know that they get any money from the BT4 developers, but it seems suspicious that their review is once again out of whack with Steam. 44% of the 117 reviews currently on Steam are positive. They aren't even batting .500. I know it's just been released, but you know what they say about first impressions.
I take exception to that. Torval is a call it like he sees it kind of person. He has a long history of voicing his opinions in a cogent and thought out manner on this site. (and others) This site makes zero money off of reviews and to think otherwise is ridiculous. Yes he likes the game well enough to score it what he did but to imply he did it for reasons other than that is his opinion is unfounded and uncalled for.
My bad, I thought it was reviewed by a writer for mmorpg.com. I don't think they take direct cash for reviews. But there could be a lot of motivation to fluff things if there is advertising money, or potential advertising money, involved. Who knows, just a thought. I'm not making an accusation, I'm raising a question.
Ive played BT4 alot over the past year and have played the Trilogy a ton also , since the first appeared in my local pc store in 1985..
I like them both , (trilogy and BT4) , I do get Kanos list of cons , and there legit when compared to the Trilogy side by side ,
But on its own BT4 is a really good game , if you play it not going in expecting the Trilogy(which many players will) It stands on its merits and experience ..
Pretty enjoyable game 8.8 is a bit high IMO .....8 is highest i can give it ..
Very mixed reviews on Steam, enough to make me sit this one out for a few months and see how it pans out.
Same, I actually did not buy although iv been waiting forever for this game. Since going Ultra Wide i can't play if a game doesn't support it but another reason i passed was alot of the reviews. I'll pick this one up during a sale.
I stayed up way too late playing it last night and called in sick to play more today. It does a lot of shit I differently than I would have wanted or agree with, and you have to turn it on hard difficulty for combat to not be a steamroll waste of time, but I still am having a blast playing it.
My biggest gripe is they said respecing for mercenary tokens would be included at the adventurer's guild, and it isn't that I have found, seen, or been able to figure out.
I can't figure out the elven tree riddles that ask you to put an elven weapon in them for the life of me. And either my internet search skills are far worse than I ever imagined (and I know they aren't good) or no one else has either and only a handful are curious.
I stayed up way too late playing it last night and called in sick to play more today. It does a lot of shit I differently than I would have wanted or agree with, and you have to turn it on hard difficulty for combat to not be a steamroll waste of time, but I still am having a blast playing it.
My biggest gripe is they said respecing for mercenary tokens would be included at the adventurer's guild, and it isn't that I have found, seen, or been able to figure out.
I can't figure out the elven tree riddles that ask you to put an elven weapon in them for the life of me. And either my internet search skills are far worse than I ever imagined (and I know they aren't good) or no one else has either and only a handful are curious.
I have not figured out the elven riddle things either and there is no info that comes up in search. Those sites probably don't rank well on SEO. :c
[MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD - mostly about the puzzles, not story]
- the spoiler tags keep breaking and won't work, so.... yeah.
I wonder if these are similar to the puzzle locks that require you to put in key items. They have a riddle and then you answer them with the appropriate item. This is in the guide book and in game tutorial.
There are also sacrificial shrines that have 4 symbols in the shrine pedestal. They are like the elven riddle trees too. I haven't figured out how to make either one work. I'm also not sure if they're something that will be explained later or if we're left to figure these out all on our own.
There are puzzle weapons too like the one in the article. They have mini puzzles in them and then you insert something that powers a weapon buff. These can be really powerful in reducing skill timers and providing additional skill specific effects, like knock back.
I have figured out one puzzle weapon that comes as a bonus item for paying for a higher package tier. It's the axe. Once I figured out the puzzles I inserted some gems or seeds and it unlock the bonuses.
Later I found and elven bow and unlocked it and did the same, only the bonuses didn't unlock. Now I wonder if I need to go and insert it into the Riddle Tree. Either that or it's bugged. There were some sort of bugs about that system.
Its great to know I'm not the only one not able to figure it out. I just did the blood room in mangar's tower. This game has some very good riddles.
Minor spoilers (not really, just me speculating)-
Are the sacrifice areas like the one you see almost right away right after first entering the underground? If so are those the ones tied to the code wheel?
The elven tree things - one riddle mentions wine and ale and secrets, but the riddle itself specifically asks for you to put in the elven weapon. The pre-order axe took up two slots, and all the other ones I found. I made a dagger with the recipes you get in the first dungeon that uses elven fragment things. I just thought about it right now and I'm in magnar's tower so can't test but I'll try the dagger since it takes up one slot, so I can also fit ale and wine in with it.
So far I haven't had an issues with the elven weapons puzzles (on the weapon themselves) being bugged. Solving them is another issue. The Axe has a million possibilities with the leather hilt. All the other ones so far have had a similar slide picture puzzle that I really suck at. I get close, but then have to completely ruin it by trying to get the one picture in the right spot and just get further and further away from getting it. I did get one by having my kid do it, but she is giving me a hard time about doing the others because she is an angsty teen and too cool to help her dad out I guess. My other two kids are too young to serve my BT4 puzzle needs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@Torval Oh that was a nice review, well done mate! Title has been added to the never ending queue of games to play.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I don't think 8.8 is accurate. I see mixed reviews on steam so far.......hmmmm. Whats the TRUTH about the game? Is it decent or crap? thx
Well, read what people are saying. Actually saying.
If someone says they don't like something but it's something you like then that's "decent."
If someone says the game doesn't compare to the first games and you hated the first games then that's decent. Or crap depending on your perspective.
So look on Steam and look at the actual content. Completely discount people saying something is decent or crap but don't give any examples.
It appeared to me folks who go in with an attitude of openness give positive reviews.
Most of the negative reviews come from people with performance issues or are graphics snobs.
Another core group of disgruntled are those who feel the new game has variances from the original series designs. Backers / buyers of retro games often look at what some consider evolutionary as a big negative hence their complaints.
Finally the save point system is a feature almost universally panned, even the old school gamers didnt want to see that retained. (If it was even in the originals, cant recall)
TLDR: the fewer expectations a person has going in, the more they seem to enjoy it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My elven weapon idea above didn't pan out. But I did see a loading screen message that seemed to indicate all you do is put the right elven weapon in the right tree.
Anyone have any additional information on this by chance?
I just finished the third dungeon (Sentry Tower I think its called) and am still having a ball. The combat and encounters keep getting better and better outside the trash fights, which are about half or so I'd say. Usually the more I play a game the more boring it gets - this game has been the opposite. The more I play the more I want to play.
One really annoying thing - their patch nots for the next three planned patches mention nothing about respecing being implemented. They did mention grid movement so they didn't just not mention missing features. Anyone know if respecing has been addressed?
I redeemed my key on GOG and have put a bit of time into it now. I like the cinematic perspective of the game. The music is very good. As one would expect from the series. There is humor throughout the game as one would also expect. I like the positional combat (having to move out of the way of oncoming attacks as a monster charges up) I like that Melody (yeah I kept her) gets drunk to be more powerful before passing out lol So far so good. I am enjoying it so far.
"Cabbage, Carrots, Potatoes"
I'll be curious to hear what you like and don't as you get further in.
Cabbage, carrots, potatoes is funny like the "Many cheeses" guy in Divinity:OS.
Also, You, are not good enough for this soup!
That guy really thinks highly of his soup!
I had to laugh when I saw that in the game. It had to be a take off on this. No soup for you!
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The game has good and bad bits. Needs optimisation and a FOV slider badly but its fun so far. The best part is the music/background sounds/singing. Its probably some of the best ive heard in a game and really adds to the atmosphere. I actually stop to hear the NPC's sing which i never do lol.
Sadly there are just so may really mind boggling design decisions:
... - Strength determines all damage - including magic users? Who thought this was a good idea.... ...
Although I understand that this is unusual and why many would find it weird, the idea that all stats are useful to all classes is not exactly new. Several games have done that.
And the so-called non-magical abilities in many RPGs for years have really, really crossed the line into magical territory. The most obvious examples are the AOE or multi-shot arrow abilities, some of which even give you a self-heal.
I've actually thought for a long time that ESO should have gone to something like that since 99% of their abilities that use stamina instead of magicka are that type of non-magical yet suspiciously magic-like abilities. It'd be a lot simpler if they just used one stat.
In ESO they should reserve stamina use for obvious non-magical things like sprinting, dodging, blocking and bashing. Even something as simple as hitting someone with a sword in ESO restores your stamina but only if you swing it extra hard lol. That to me is much goofier than what they're doing in Bard's Tale 4 with strength.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm really enjoying the game, although it has undeniable rough edges. As an example, you can only load a few skills (4) per character into battle. There is a clumsy interface, not documented, where you can change the assigned skills. In my case, I had to hit arrow keys over and over until I could highlight the skill and slot that I wanted to assign, hit enter (not mouse click!) a couple of times, and navigate through menus to change anything. This should be *much* more transparent. If you click on a button to assign a skill there is no way to change the decision, and not even a "commit" second chance button. Only being able to save the game at specific points is actually fine by me - you can return to a nearby save point and get a full heal as well.
At the same time, I really like the puzzles, the tactical feel of the combat, and the dungeon crawler aspect is very well done. Different classes play differently and you can approach the game in quite different ways. At higher levels it gets more interesting, not less. By contrast, Divinity Original Sin left me completely cold. I hated the tone; the initial fun of "explode every container" wore into tedium pretty quickly for me, and I found the crafting system awful. So the moral, I guess, is that different games hit the sweet spot for fund for different folks, and I'm liking this one a lot.
If anyone cares I figured out the elven tree things. They open some of the elven weapons third slot riddle bonuses. Some others want you to kill a specific mob. In my case both wanted the wielder to kill an archer.
Comments
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Always love your reviews...
Wait a few days, to weeks...watch some streams on the web, and if still interested buy it on steam and skip the intro/tutorial (so you do not waste your refund time) and play the game for an hour. If it runs well, and you are still interested then re-start and enjoy. If not, refund and move on.
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aloha Mr Hand !
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
My biggest gripe is they said respecing for mercenary tokens would be included at the adventurer's guild, and it isn't that I have found, seen, or been able to figure out.
I can't figure out the elven tree riddles that ask you to put an elven weapon in them for the life of me. And either my internet search skills are far worse than I ever imagined (and I know they aren't good) or no one else has either and only a handful are curious.
Minor spoilers (not really, just me speculating)-
Are the sacrifice areas like the one you see almost right away right after first entering the underground? If so are those the ones tied to the code wheel?
The elven tree things - one riddle mentions wine and ale and secrets, but the riddle itself specifically asks for you to put in the elven weapon. The pre-order axe took up two slots, and all the other ones I found. I made a dagger with the recipes you get in the first dungeon that uses elven fragment things. I just thought about it right now and I'm in magnar's tower so can't test but I'll try the dagger since it takes up one slot, so I can also fit ale and wine in with it.
So far I haven't had an issues with the elven weapons puzzles (on the weapon themselves) being bugged. Solving them is another issue. The Axe has a million possibilities with the leather hilt. All the other ones so far have had a similar slide picture puzzle that I really suck at. I get close, but then have to completely ruin it by trying to get the one picture in the right spot and just get further and further away from getting it. I did get one by having my kid do it, but she is giving me a hard time about doing the others because she is an angsty teen and too cool to help her dad out I guess. My other two kids are too young to serve my BT4 puzzle needs.
Again? As many games as you have played /are playing I assume there already was two or three of you already out there.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It appeared to me folks who go in with an attitude of openness give positive reviews.
Most of the negative reviews come from people with performance issues or are graphics snobs.
Another core group of disgruntled are those who feel the new game has variances from the original series designs. Backers / buyers of retro games often look at what some consider evolutionary as a big negative hence their complaints.
Finally the save point system is a feature almost universally panned, even the old school gamers didnt want to see that retained. (If it was even in the originals, cant recall)
TLDR: the fewer expectations a person has going in, the more they seem to enjoy it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Anyone have any additional information on this by chance?
I just finished the third dungeon (Sentry Tower I think its called) and am still having a ball. The combat and encounters keep getting better and better outside the trash fights, which are about half or so I'd say. Usually the more I play a game the more boring it gets - this game has been the opposite. The more I play the more I want to play.
One really annoying thing - their patch nots for the next three planned patches mention nothing about respecing being implemented. They did mention grid movement so they didn't just not mention missing features. Anyone know if respecing has been addressed?
No soup for you!
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
And the so-called non-magical abilities in many RPGs for years have really, really crossed the line into magical territory. The most obvious examples are the AOE or multi-shot arrow abilities, some of which even give you a self-heal.
I've actually thought for a long time that ESO should have gone to something like that since 99% of their abilities that use stamina instead of magicka are that type of non-magical yet suspiciously magic-like abilities. It'd be a lot simpler if they just used one stat.
In ESO they should reserve stamina use for obvious non-magical things like sprinting, dodging, blocking and bashing. Even something as simple as hitting someone with a sword in ESO restores your stamina but only if you swing it extra hard lol. That to me is much goofier than what they're doing in Bard's Tale 4 with strength.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED