There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
It only has value to those that find such valuable.
It will be interesting to see just how many do still find that valuable, both in those with previous firsthand experience and those who desire it simply from what they have heard from how it was back then.
Is it genuine interest for and commitment to the old ways, or will it turn out a case of rose-coloured glasses shattered for the veterans and actuality crushing the grandeur imagined by the uninitiated.
Thanks for the list. I quit playing when TBC launched and this brings back a lot of memories. TBH most of these points are a big fat + in my book.
I would like to take a dip back in once Classic launches. The thing is that you really need a lot of time to actually be able to enjoy the game. For pvp, I remember farming those berries that ran off a different CD than normal potions. I really don't see myself doing that now.
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
It only has value to those that find such valuable.
It will be interesting to see just how many do still find that valuable, both in those with previous firsthand experience and those who desire it simply from what they have heard from how it was back then.
Is it genuine interest for and commitment to the old ways, or will it turn out a case of rose-coloured glasses shattered for the veterans and actuality crushing the grandeur imagined by the uninitiated.
I am eager to see how this unfolds.
That is a very large part of the nostalgia that I feel some people are forgetting. The main reason things were 'worth getting' was because that was the only way they could be gotten or very limited ways to get 'valuable' things. Most people in the old days were honestly looking for any corner they could cut. I mean half the people I would be on vent with would be talking about how much currency they were buying and weighing the worth of it, so of course if a dev is either giving you free stuff or providing you with ways to legitimately get advancement (i.e. buying in game currency), a large portion will do it and thing talk crap about people who do it as long as no one finds out they do it. That's just how human's work, always looking for the easiest thing.
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
Funny story. When playing vanilla WOW I recall being relieved at how much easier it was than the MMORPGs I had played previous to it.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
Funny story. When playing vanilla WOW I recall being relieved at how much easier it was than the MMORPGs I had played previous to it.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
Precisely I am very humoured by the fact that people consider Vannila WoW hard. It was very easy compared to Everquest. In fact I was very surprised by this narrative when in started appearing but then I realised that compared to the games that came after it one can see how it could easily be mistaken for a harder game.
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
Funny story. When playing vanilla WOW I recall being relieved at how much easier it was than the MMORPGs I had played previous to it.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
You are so right about WoW being easier in general. It blows my mind that people look at vanilla WoW as some kind of hardcore version of MMORPGs. It literally took examples of everything before it and made it more accessible. Making it more accessible required making it easier in a lot of ways. But I think it also made a lot of things straight up better (and some thing worse depending on what a person prefers). Yes, it was meant to appeal to a wider audience, as well as being easier to play through, but it's polish and scope at release was unprecedented.
That said, WoW does still offer real challenge for people that chase it. This is one of those things that I think a lot of people don't give it credit for. WoW gives people something to aspire to. They focused heavily on those end game raider type people (and still do). This was completely based on EQ style of stuff at the time. But they brought it up a notch and introduced more interesting mechanics to large group fights.
It is really strange to see people talk about vanilla as if it's hardcore though. I remember, and this doesn't feel like that long ago, that people were talking about vanilla as if it was for babies.
I remember those days. Having to save up for my first mount and for skills. The long grind to level. Players kill stealing either by accident but some on purpose. Lots of corpse runs. No thank you but you guys and gals have fun.
I forgot about being too poor to level my skills! I once traveled from Darnassus to Stormwind as a wisp, was lost out of my mind. Got stuck in the underground castle dungeon with lava, I forget the name. It took me days to finally get there.
I didn't realize I enjoyed my time in WoW that much, but I'm pretty sure it's mostly rose tinted glasses.
I had some very good experiences and it was certainly fun at times, especially reaching new zones and meeting and grouping with others. Early WoW, it was the worst of times, it was the best of times...
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Rare Tameable Wildlife that transfered with a special skill (hunters) and having to level and train them. That was fun as well. It ment something. Current game means jack and is soo dumbed down most of it has been taken out your hands
I remember those days. Having to save up for my first mount and for skills. The long grind to level. Players kill stealing either by accident but some on purpose. Lots of corpse runs. No thank you but you guys and gals have fun.
I forgot about being too poor to level my skills! I once traveled from Darnassus to Stormwind as a wisp, was lost out of my mind. Got stuck in the underground castle dungeon with lava, I forget the name. It took me days to finally get there.
I didn't realize I enjoyed my time in WoW that much, but I'm pretty sure it's mostly rose tinted glasses.
Yes, earning gold was a very real challenge, so much so my son and I didn't earn enough gold to buy both the skill and mount itself until we were level 44.
Whatever you do, don't try to both level engineering on your first characters.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you want to do a Dungeon ... You need to be there, not camped in Stormwind waiting to run Scarlet Monastery. Yes this means getting there on your own at times and that can be a big challenge in itself.
ah, yeah I forgot that one. Gotta actually run to do dungeons
The other one I forgot is leveling is super slow. It takes a lot of time to level. I can get to level 120 so quick in BFA even with their leveling changes compared to classic WoW.
16 days played to level 60 on my first character, a Paladin who actually grouped a lot especially after level 50 which you pretty much had to as there were few solo quests in that range so it was either group or grind and I did both.
Contrast that with a warrior I rolled on a new server for Cata who got to max level (85) in 4.5 days played.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know what i look forward to most about classic, Just regular mobs dropping stuff i can use. Thats the biggest thing. The mystery that the random murloc im farming might drop a weapon that is actually a upgrade or finding herbs while farming so i can craft more potions which is huge in vanilla.
Your title is misleading. This is what you think will be different in classic WoW versus retail as the demo only includes 2 zones, no dungeons, no PVP, limited to level 15-19 only.
No one knows for sure what classic will actually be like. What is pretty evident is that it will NOT be the old vanilla, but a take there on. So past experience may not actually be relevant.
Since it hasn't been released and even the demo is heavily gimped, no know knows anything for sure as to how it will play out.
This is my experience with the most popular (currently) vanilla WoW server. Not what I think might be different or not different. People are expecting and requested blizzard to do vanilla WoW, not something different. So this thread is for those expecting a vanilla experience and what to expect out of it from my own experience on the vanilla wow server I play.
He's not wrong though, there is a reason they are calling it classic, it will not replicate vanilla in total.
Simple changes will be made, especially in the background along with some minor QOL improvements, class balancing and bug fixes of course.
Well, if its so different from vanilla then all the people that have been asking for an official vanilla WoW aren't gonna be very happy.
If it isn't like vanilla at all, and its mostly just vanilla zones/quests with little of the mechanics/classes/skills/crafting etc...all the complaining for WoD and BFA combined will look like nothing but a tiny drop in a big lake.
That be one sure fire way for blizzard to shoot themselves in the foot lol.
Imagine the mass amount of hate posts there'll be from that.
Pretty sure blizzard isn't gonna go down that route though.
Where did I mention anything about classic being "very different" from vanilla? So many minor QOL adjustments they could make while staying true to vanilla.
Could be in not requiring Warlocks and Hunters to consume bag space for pet food and soul shards.
They could subtly increase or lower drop rates on gold or gear, adjustments they did back in Vanilla as well.
Class balancing could be slightly different, and they could decide to lower the cost to respec within a class which would mean raid spec'd healers, paladins, and druids could change more easily for PVP rather than having to level up two separate characters.
All purely speculation of course, but Blizzard's too smart to roll out a purely vanilla experience because as that one lead dev said, players only think they want vanilla.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Current players, or players who started during WotLK and onward may or may not enjoy the Classic experience, though the verdict is out. BFA has been fun in a fleeting sort of way, but if you were to read the general forums or talk to the average player, I think you'd find a large portion of the subscriber base is very unhappy with the experience right now. Everything being discussed here is speculation at this point, but as someone who's been playing vanilla private servers, who started playing WoW during the open beta, all of the the reasons in the OP and beyond are exactly why I'm looking forward to Classic servers so much more than I am raiding BFA content with my guild every Friday and Saturday.
Yup this. And if it is like a couple posters say above and WoW classic is barely like vanilla...even if its 50/50 or even 60/40 like vanilla...unless its 95% like vanilla or greater I don't see the reaction being positive in the slightest. I'm not so sure Blizzard would do that to themselves. The amount of bad feedback from players would be insane.
On the other hand more relating to the topic at hand...on the vanilla WoW server I'm on, Ironforge is super active like it was back in...vanilla. Darnassus sees a lot of people too from when I ran through. In current WoW, barely any of the cities are used (and ironforge is almost always empty) except Orgrimmar/Stormwind and the latest expansion cities.
its awesome to see so many people using ironforge
blizzard said classic is going to be vanilla patch 1.12 with modern code. so its more then likely graphically enriched 2006 vanilla wow minus some server side things like wall jumping.
Just to be real... even the pirate servers aren't 100% true to vanilla either. They no more have the original code than Blizzard does. I've played the original WoW and the pirate servers. The pirate servers are closer to vanilla than retail is, that is why people call it classic WoW. It isn't classic WoW, it's the closest thing there is to classic WoW.
Classic WoW will receive all the fan fare and loyalty as any other Blizzard expansion has. People will sing it's praises and swear that the Gods have finally answered them... at least until 2 months have passed by and everyone is at max level and wondering just what is the point of playing a version of the game that they KNOW will receive no updates ever. At least with original WoW, the reality of an expansion on the way was very real. In this case, this is it.
Yes, lots of people will play it and then stop playing it. It is the nature of the beast. It will not change the fact that retail WoW is not the game you started playing nor will it feel the same playing classic WoW as it did when you originally played it. Even on pirate servers this is the case because what is really missing most of all is not the game play but the people. The people you played with are actually what made vanilla WoW what it was.
The game itself was just a novelty. It would have failed miserably had the people not been there to prop it up. Modern games fail almost entirely because the people don't stay around... and the reason they don't stay around is because there are a 1000 other things they could be doing. Back in the day, WoW literally was the only reason some people lived. That social connection was their only reason they woke up in the morning. The choices were few and most only thought that WoW was the only game there was at the time... even though there were others, they really believed it was the only game they could play.
It's not about easy or hard... it's about going through all that with birds of a feather. The flock hasn't been in WoW for a very long time. Which is why all the real ugliness of the game shows through so quickly... the people aren't there to make up for it's flaws. WoW has always had flaws, people looked past them for the social connections. Now they could care less about anyone else in game and as such, the game that is flawed and has always been flawed is seen as flawed.
This is why Blizzard really never entertained the idea of a classic server for long. The same ills that they face in retail would show their ugly head in classic too. And without the hope of classic some day becoming a reality, the people who yearn for it, would have stopped playing retail. Well the day of classic is coming and all it will really do is send more people away from the game... not bring them back. Classic won't kill WoW, but it will definitely take a huge hit because of it.
Didn't see one of my favorite things. Hogger will kill you if you are alone. The fond memories of an entire raid coming to kill him just to repay him for all the times he popped up behind someone and killed them in one hit.
Either create a guild or find one asap if you intend on experience the "Vanilla" game. Playing the game by yourself and attempting to use trade chat souly to find groups won't work after the initial experience of transporting back to that era has worn off. Find or create a guild because it makes things so much easier.
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
Funny story. When playing vanilla WOW I recall being relieved at how much easier it was than the MMORPGs I had played previous to it.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
Anarchy Online 200 Levels Vanilla + 10 Shadow levels + plus research (About the same XP as leveling to 200 Levels) Plus Alien Levels Only way to gain Alien XP was to do Alien content. That too was quite grindy
Do we even know what Classic WoW will be like? So far I know is that people can playtest lvl 15-19 during Blizcon. All we know is that isn't going to be a 1 on 1 copy from Vanilla.
We know a bit. Some screen shots were leaked a couple days ago, several content creators have made videos or have been clipped from streaming services displaying them. This is the one I've seen, and from other anonymous sources they are confirmed to be real (according to Asmongold), but there's really no way to be certain until those sources are revealed. They seem legit to me, however. Take that with a grain of salt, because I'm just a dude.
This video really made me miss the old skill trees in WoW and SWTOR.
Nothing like spending your entire vanilla career gearing up to pull sub 500 dps on a cherry picked Noth Fight. DPS paladins made Boot-leg electric mages look good. Don't worry though, with enough delusion you too can be that asshole who dropped consecrates on Farlina Worshipers to pad your sub-par-warlock tier dps.
There are some who feel that not taking everything for granted and having to earn literally everything you have and do was actually good for the genre. In vanilla, nothing was taken for granted and nothing was given. You had to earn it. That means it has value.
Funny story. When playing vanilla WOW I recall being relieved at how much easier it was than the MMORPGs I had played previous to it.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
@Kyleran As someone who started in DAoC I completely agree. Personally I prefer the difficulty of Vanilla Wow over Gen 1 MMOs. I think it was just right. BC and WOTLK were good too, but it went too far on the easy spectrum after those expacs.
I think BC was better than Vanilla, but its flaw was adding flying. If BC didn't add flying, and say they waited till WotLK . I imagine it would be the the main version of the game you would see on most private servers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Is it genuine interest for and commitment to the old ways, or will it turn out a case of rose-coloured glasses shattered for the veterans and actuality crushing the grandeur imagined by the uninitiated.
I am eager to see how this unfolds.
I would like to take a dip back in once Classic launches. The thing is that you really need a lot of time to actually be able to enjoy the game. For pvp, I remember farming those berries that ran off a different CD than normal potions. I really don't see myself doing that now.
Some still eschew it because to them even in the vanilla days WOW was an easy mode game. (Compared to titles like L2 or EQ1 it really was)
Thing is, MMORPGs really have gone downhill so far from those days people are now holding vanilla WOW up as some sort of pinnacle of challenge, which it really wasn't.
All a matter of when one started in the genre I suspect.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That said, WoW does still offer real challenge for people that chase it. This is one of those things that I think a lot of people don't give it credit for. WoW gives people something to aspire to. They focused heavily on those end game raider type people (and still do). This was completely based on EQ style of stuff at the time. But they brought it up a notch and introduced more interesting mechanics to large group fights.
It is really strange to see people talk about vanilla as if it's hardcore though. I remember, and this doesn't feel like that long ago, that people were talking about vanilla as if it was for babies.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Whatever you do, don't try to both level engineering on your first characters.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Contrast that with a warrior I rolled on a new server for Cata who got to max level (85) in 4.5 days played.
Bleh.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aloha Mr Hand !
Could be in not requiring Warlocks and Hunters to consume bag space for pet food and soul shards.
They could subtly increase or lower drop rates on gold or gear, adjustments they did back in Vanilla as well.
Class balancing could be slightly different, and they could decide to lower the cost to respec within a class which would mean raid spec'd healers, paladins, and druids could change more easily for PVP rather than having to level up two separate characters.
All purely speculation of course, but Blizzard's too smart to roll out a purely vanilla experience because as that one lead dev said, players only think they want vanilla.
He wasn't wrong.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Classic WoW will receive all the fan fare and loyalty as any other Blizzard expansion has. People will sing it's praises and swear that the Gods have finally answered them... at least until 2 months have passed by and everyone is at max level and wondering just what is the point of playing a version of the game that they KNOW will receive no updates ever. At least with original WoW, the reality of an expansion on the way was very real. In this case, this is it.
Yes, lots of people will play it and then stop playing it. It is the nature of the beast. It will not change the fact that retail WoW is not the game you started playing nor will it feel the same playing classic WoW as it did when you originally played it. Even on pirate servers this is the case because what is really missing most of all is not the game play but the people. The people you played with are actually what made vanilla WoW what it was.
The game itself was just a novelty. It would have failed miserably had the people not been there to prop it up. Modern games fail almost entirely because the people don't stay around... and the reason they don't stay around is because there are a 1000 other things they could be doing. Back in the day, WoW literally was the only reason some people lived. That social connection was their only reason they woke up in the morning. The choices were few and most only thought that WoW was the only game there was at the time... even though there were others, they really believed it was the only game they could play.
It's not about easy or hard... it's about going through all that with birds of a feather. The flock hasn't been in WoW for a very long time. Which is why all the real ugliness of the game shows through so quickly... the people aren't there to make up for it's flaws. WoW has always had flaws, people looked past them for the social connections. Now they could care less about anyone else in game and as such, the game that is flawed and has always been flawed is seen as flawed.
This is why Blizzard really never entertained the idea of a classic server for long. The same ills that they face in retail would show their ugly head in classic too. And without the hope of classic some day becoming a reality, the people who yearn for it, would have stopped playing retail. Well the day of classic is coming and all it will really do is send more people away from the game... not bring them back. Classic won't kill WoW, but it will definitely take a huge hit because of it.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Dishonorable kill counts
This one I miss the most: Everybody knew everyone on the server
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
200 Levels Vanilla +
10 Shadow levels + plus research (About the same XP as leveling to 200 Levels)
Plus Alien Levels Only way to gain Alien XP was to do Alien content. That too was quite grindy
I think BC was better than Vanilla, but its flaw was adding flying. If BC didn't add flying, and say they waited till WotLK . I imagine it would be the the main version of the game you would see on most private servers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes