How is this review NOT informative? It doesn't conform to people who dislike the game's opinion, and that's not the same thing. What you're looking for is for reviewers to be echo chambers of your own personal thoughts. That's NOT what the idea should be. A critic's role isn't to meet your expectations, but to share with you whether a product met their own.
No I disagree.
And that's the thing, I completely agree with Bill.
As I said to Mad Frenchie, any reviewer that just writes to what others are saying is not helpful.
In my opinion it's THAT very thing that is bad journalism.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
You see, that's the thing, I think it's awesome there are no npc's in a multiplayer game.
Especially one with pvp.
Now all this kerfuffle makes me want to see for myself if this game is "really that bad ... "
Maybe, if it weren't also coupled with enemy NPC AI that literally stand stock still doing nothing until a players get in range and triggers their aggro, at which point they either A) run straight at the player, , run behind something a peak out to take pot shots, or C) glitch out.
Literally, reviewers stayed hidden and monitored enemies like the Scorch, and reported they literally stand around staring at nothing until you aggro them. WoW has more interesting mob AI.
Does Wow? That sounds to me like regular run of the mill horrible MMO AI in most mmo's.
I've been playing quite a lot of Lord of the Rings Online lately and that is pretty par for the course for not only that mmo, but most mmo's.
My opinion is that if you can see an enemy they should be able to see you. Period.
But most mmo's (not calling Fallout 76 an mmo) have never gotten away from that. It's like the time I was talking to a higher level devloper and noted that Warhammer (mmo) had this issue where, if I attack at range a guard npc, the other guard just stands there while the one I attacked comes at me.
His response? "Well, they don't have a lot of PvE experience." My thought? When does one need experience for common sense?
Glitching out is an issue though.
So, I suppose the only thing left for me to do is to try the game. Which I will do.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
This happens ALL THE TIME in FO76. Whitesprings bots will attack hostiles. Super Mutants will attack Scorched, Scorched Attack Feral Ghouls, Everything is attacking everything at all times. Often times I'll be somewhere, hear a gunshot and check the map to see if it's a player, and most of the time it isn't.
Not to mention the enemies in FO76 are WAY more varied than in FO4. Even now after all my time played I sometimes see a new animal or enemy I haven't seen before.
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
You see, that's the thing, I think it's awesome there are no npc's in a multiplayer game.
Especially one with pvp.
Now all this kerfuffle makes me want to see for myself if this game is "really that bad ... "
Maybe, if it weren't also coupled with enemy NPC AI that literally stand stock still doing nothing until a players get in range and triggers their aggro, at which point they either A) run straight at the player, , run behind something a peak out to take pot shots, or C) glitch out.
Literally, reviewers stayed hidden and monitored enemies like the Scorch, and reported they literally stand around staring at nothing until you aggro them. WoW has more interesting mob AI.
Does Wow? That sounds to me like regular run of the mill horrible MMO AI in most mmo's.
I've been playing quite a lot of Lord of the Rings Online lately and that is pretty par for the course for not only that mmo, but most mmo's.
My opinion is that if you can see an enemy they should be able to see you. Period.
But most mmo's (not calling Fallout 76 an mmo) have never gotten away from that. It's like the time I was talking to a higher level devloper and noted that Warhammer (mmo) had this issue where, if I attack at range a guard npc, the other guard just stands there while the one I attacked comes at me.
His response? "Well, they don't have a lot of PvE experience." My thought? When does one need experience for common sense?
Glitching out is an issue though.
So, I suppose the only thing left for me to do is to try the game. Which I will do.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
Just pointing out that it's typical for mmo ai.
Are there any new mmo's that have better ai? Or at least games that allow for a larger amount of players.
I mean, Conan Exiles doesn't have exquisite AI.
Bless certainly didn't but that game is sort of older and didn't seem to be about "AI" or a world in general.
Fallout 4 is a single player game so I imagine someone will say that's why there is a different. I don't know if I buy that but maybe it's true.
Pantheon doesn't look to have anything other than traditional AI (so far).
Elder Scrolls Online hasn't really wowed me though I've liked a few things I've seen.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
This happens ALL THE TIME in FO76. Whitesprings bots will attack hostiles. Super Mutants will attack Scorched, Scorched Attack Feral Ghouls, Everything is attacking everything at all times. Often times I'll be somewhere, hear a gunshot and check the map to see if it's a player, and most of the time it isn't.
Not to mention the enemies in FO76 are WAY more varied than in FO4. Even now after all my time played I sometimes see a new animal or enemy I haven't seen before.
That's a good thing to hear for FO76, but it isn't really the same as the two I mentioned. Both the BoS and Insitute be interacted with and cooperated with by the player.
That's a symptom of the lack of NPC factions that aren't just cannon fodder for players. Either way, this reviewer made it very clear he experimented with the AI and found they do nothing without being triggered by players:
"It doesn’t help West Virginia feel any more lived in that the AI enemies do such a poor job of appearing alive. They’re clearly just waiting around for you to turn up and kill them. When Scorched and ghouls aren’t spawning out of thin air, I’ve sat hidden watching them to see how they spend their time and, well, they just stand there, fixed to the same spot.
They only come alive when you walk into their vision, and even then they either run straight at you or hide behind the nearest bit of wall, leaning out periodically to shoot in your direction. And that’s when they work as they’re supposed to. Sometimes they won’t even do that due to some bug hidden away in the code. Often an enemy will stand stock still, inanimate, waiting for you to kill them.
After 30 hours of fighting countless Super Mutants, Scorched, and ghouls – who all behave exactly the same way, suffer from the same bugs, and offer no real challenge – I am completely bored of combat. Now, when I see an enemy, I’m just frustrated that they’re getting in the way. There’s no fun in the 500th headshot against these cretinous creatures."
Their final score is a mere 0.4 off from the average critical score, by the way.
I think its not being taken into account the thousands of very detailed intricate details of the game that tell the story. Seems to be a lot of hate because its not the game they had in mind instead of "getting it" and seeing the game that's there in a dead world brought to life. Best fallout imo in many respects. i wont say it doesn't need work... cause it does ... There's some awesome content to be seen tho.
I think its not being taken into account the thousands of very detailed intricate details of the game that tell the story. Seems to be a lot of hate because its not the game they had in mind instead of "getting it" and seeing the game that's there in a dead world brought to life. Best fallout imo in many respects. i wont say it doesn't need work... cause it does ... There's some awesome content to be seen tho.
Those details existed in FO4. Holotapes, notes, emails, diaries... All there. Many of these will update your map with a PoI to investigate further.
This idea that FO76 created that storytelling for the franchise is patently false. FO76 didn't actually add anything to the franchise in the narrative department.
How is this review NOT informative? It doesn't conform to people who dislike the game's opinion, and that's not the same thing. What you're looking for is for reviewers to be echo chambers of your own personal thoughts. That's NOT what the idea should be. A critic's role isn't to meet your expectations, but to share with you whether a product met their own.
No I disagree.
And that's the thing, I completely agree with Bill.
As I said to Mad Frenchie, any reviewer that just writes to what others are saying is not helpful.
In my opinion it's THAT very thing that is bad journalism.
No one is asking for him to echo everyone. Like I said before, he couldve gone into all his personal experiences into more detail, good and bad, and maybe give a good reason why he considers this game to be comparable in quality to other games that have received a 7. That is FAR from what he did.
Journalists, (good ones anyway) should be able to detach themselves from personal opinion for an honest review. This guy went off on tangents already excusing everything from the very start (which youve failed to address btw) mentioned 2 interesting story bits, glazed over the bugs, 1/4 of the entire thing is what he feels the game needs to , then brought up his horrible puberty analogy again.
Letting your personal opinions influence your writing is called bias, and its been a bad thing in the journalism for ages. Or at least up until recent years I guess, when everyone suddenly decided opinions were as credible and important as facts.
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
This happens ALL THE TIME in FO76. Whitesprings bots will attack hostiles. Super Mutants will attack Scorched, Scorched Attack Feral Ghouls, Everything is attacking everything at all times. Often times I'll be somewhere, hear a gunshot and check the map to see if it's a player, and most of the time it isn't.
Not to mention the enemies in FO76 are WAY more varied than in FO4. Even now after all my time played I sometimes see a new animal or enemy I haven't seen before.
That's a good thing to hear for FO76, but it isn't really the same as the two I mentioned. Both the BoS and Insitute be interacted with and cooperated with by the player.
That's a symptom of the lack of NPC factions that aren't just cannon fodder for players. Either way, this reviewer made it very clear he experimented with the AI and found they do nothing without being triggered by players:
"It doesn’t help West Virginia feel any more lived in that the AI enemies do such a poor job of appearing alive. They’re clearly just waiting around for you to turn up and kill them. When Scorched and ghouls aren’t spawning out of thin air, I’ve sat hidden watching them to see how they spend their time and, well, they just stand there, fixed to the same spot.
They only come alive when you walk into their vision, and even then they either run straight at you or hide behind the nearest bit of wall, leaning out periodically to shoot in your direction. And that’s when they work as they’re supposed to. Sometimes they won’t even do that due to some bug hidden away in the code. Often an enemy will stand stock still, inanimate, waiting for you to kill them.
After 30 hours of fighting countless Super Mutants, Scorched, and ghouls – who all behave exactly the same way, suffer from the same bugs, and offer no real challenge – I am completely bored of combat. Now, when I see an enemy, I’m just frustrated that they’re getting in the way. There’s no fun in the 500th headshot against these cretinous creatures."
Their final score is a mere 0.4 off from the average critical score, by the way.
Whitesprings resort is a faction in itself, they will work with the player as well, they aren't an enemy NPC faction. Most people drop nukes there so they have help to take out the Scorchbeasts, but... it often backfires because if you attack the whitesprings bots, they can turn against you very quickly.
Plus, as you level, the enemies get substantially harder, you can't just headshot and range them perpetually. Enemies post level 50 won't drop off you immediately when you try to retreat to stealth. They run MUCH faster, like, superhumanly fast. Most players probably haven't even ventured into the forest, which is completely different than what we've seen in other fallout games, even way different than other areas of FO76. Enemies there are tougher, some are stealthier, some roam pretty far away.
Enemies also average based upon who is around, if a level 50 has run through an area that usually spawns 20s, low level players could have to deal with level 40 - 68+ enemies.
And while enemies don't necessarily "come alive" until you zone into the area, they can and will be activated by other players events, and remain that way, which is way more alive than most MMOs appear.
An example of this is again, whitesprings resort. I entered and ran through the area through a hole in the fence, found the bots attacking 2 scorchbeasts. Figured I'd leave and come back later, got to an area where I could port out, went to my base, and headed back to the resort 10 minutes later, one scorchbeast was killed, the other at a quarter health. Dozens of scrap heaps from the dead bots.
The problem with this game is how inconsistent it is, what one person pessimistically experiences could turn out way differently for someone else.
I think its not being taken into account the thousands of very detailed intricate details of the game that tell the story. Seems to be a lot of hate because its not the game they had in mind instead of "getting it" and seeing the game that's there in a dead world brought to life. Best fallout imo in many respects. i wont say it doesn't need work... cause it does ... There's some awesome content to be seen tho.
Funny you should say this because I'm seeing this exact theme with some of the reviews on Metacritic. Now these are bits ...
"Fallout 76 lacks the heart and soul of what is a Bethesda RPG. The
exclusion of NPC's and, in general, decent quest givers makes an
emotional (or any) connection to the world near-on impossible and
manages to shatter any immersion."
"There is something good in this game, but it’s crippled by a bland world design and a non-existent plot." (why does there have to be a plot? - S)
"The bare-bones plot and general lack of direction mean you must make
your own fun. It's set in a largely static world that doesn't care about
the choices you make, and the few times when you can impact the world
may be lost to you or circumvented by others with a mere server hop.
There's fun to be had if you enjoy the thought of poking around a
Fallout wasteland with a friend."
I'm leaning toward your thinking Rastan. Bugs and technical issues aside, this is a different type of Fallout Game and I don't think the fans like what they tried.
Assuming that this grand experiment was done well.
In my mind it's always ok not to have quests or NPC's but to just have a world to explore and things to see and read but I don't believe the majority of players would be with me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
EDIT- those reviews also include that the wasteland is largely empty as a result of the decision to forego true NPC populations. I didn't see much made of that in this review, and is something I would've been unpleasantly surprised with had I just taken this review as the assessment of the game I go by.
Realize that you just used the fact that, a game that's well over a decade old and has to scale to higher player counts, has poor AI... So Bethesda's new $60 AAA small-group multiplayer shooter title shouldn't have any better, and we shouldn't demerit their title for having even more boring NPC enemies (WoW mobs will patrol, ESO's will heal and flank, etc.) than older titles that must scale the AI up against larger player counts hogging system resources.
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
This happens ALL THE TIME in FO76. Whitesprings bots will attack hostiles. Super Mutants will attack Scorched, Scorched Attack Feral Ghouls, Everything is attacking everything at all times. Often times I'll be somewhere, hear a gunshot and check the map to see if it's a player, and most of the time it isn't.
Not to mention the enemies in FO76 are WAY more varied than in FO4. Even now after all my time played I sometimes see a new animal or enemy I haven't seen before.
That's a good thing to hear for FO76, but it isn't really the same as the two I mentioned. Both the BoS and Insitute be interacted with and cooperated with by the player.
That's a symptom of the lack of NPC factions that aren't just cannon fodder for players. Either way, this reviewer made it very clear he experimented with the AI and found they do nothing without being triggered by players:
"It doesn’t help West Virginia feel any more lived in that the AI enemies do such a poor job of appearing alive. They’re clearly just waiting around for you to turn up and kill them. When Scorched and ghouls aren’t spawning out of thin air, I’ve sat hidden watching them to see how they spend their time and, well, they just stand there, fixed to the same spot.
They only come alive when you walk into their vision, and even then they either run straight at you or hide behind the nearest bit of wall, leaning out periodically to shoot in your direction. And that’s when they work as they’re supposed to. Sometimes they won’t even do that due to some bug hidden away in the code. Often an enemy will stand stock still, inanimate, waiting for you to kill them.
After 30 hours of fighting countless Super Mutants, Scorched, and ghouls – who all behave exactly the same way, suffer from the same bugs, and offer no real challenge – I am completely bored of combat. Now, when I see an enemy, I’m just frustrated that they’re getting in the way. There’s no fun in the 500th headshot against these cretinous creatures."
Their final score is a mere 0.4 off from the average critical score, by the way.
Whitesprings resort is a faction in itself, they will work with the player as well, they aren't an enemy NPC faction. Most people drop nukes there so they have help to take out the Scorchbeasts, but... it often backfires because if you attack the whitesprings bots, they can turn against you very quickly.
Plus, as you level, the enemies get substantially harder, you can't just headshot and range them perpetually. Enemies post level 50 won't drop off you immediately when you try to retreat to stealth. They run MUCH faster, like, superhumanly fast. Most players probably haven't even ventured into the forest, which is completely different than what we've seen in other fallout games, even way different than other areas of FO76. Enemies there are tougher, some are stealthier, some roam pretty far away.
Enemies also average based upon who is around, if a level 50 has run through an area that usually spawns 20s, low level players could have to deal with level 40 - 68+ enemies.
And while enemies don't necessarily "come alive" until you zone into the area, they can and will be activated by other players events, and remain that way, which is way more alive than most MMOs appear.
An example of this is again, whitesprings resort. I entered and ran through the area through a hole in the fence, found the bots attacking 2 scorchbeasts. Figured I'd leave and come back later, got to an area where I could port out, went to my base, and headed back to the resort 10 minutes later, one scorchbeast was killed, the other at a quarter health. Dozens of scrap heaps from the dead bots.
The problem with this game is how inconsistent it is, what one person pessimistically experiences could turn out way differently for someone else.
Thanks for clarifying here.
Seems to me from your explanation Bethesda was counting on player triggered events to replace the NPC triggered events we saw previously (i.e. BoS flying around attacking Raider settlements when spotted). But how often do you enjoy that kinda of happenstance in FO76? I haven't seen a reviewer go into more depth on how often these coincidental crossings happen.
As for Whitesprings working with the player: are you saying there are actually friendly NPCs that the player can work with, other than the canned bots we've seen mention of? It seems a Whitesprings full of human NPCs the player can interact with is completely contrary to what's been reported about the game.
Whitesprings resort is a faction in itself, they will work with the player as well, they aren't an enemy NPC faction. Most people drop nukes there so they have help to take out the Scorchbeasts, but... it often backfires because if you attack the whitesprings bots, they can turn against you very quickly.
Plus, as you level, the enemies get substantially harder, you can't just headshot and range them perpetually. Enemies post level 50 won't drop off you immediately when you try to retreat to stealth. They run MUCH faster, like, superhumanly fast. Most players probably haven't even ventured into the forest, which is completely different than what we've seen in other fallout games, even way different than other areas of FO76. Enemies there are tougher, some are stealthier, some roam pretty far away.
Enemies also average based upon who is around, if a level 50 has run through an area that usually spawns 20s, low level players could have to deal with level 40 - 68+ enemies.
And while enemies don't necessarily "come alive" until you zone into the area, they can and will be activated by other players events, and remain that way, which is way more alive than most MMOs appear.
An example of this is again, whitesprings resort. I entered and ran through the area through a hole in the fence, found the bots attacking 2 scorchbeasts. Figured I'd leave and come back later, got to an area where I could port out, went to my base, and headed back to the resort 10 minutes later, one scorchbeast was killed, the other at a quarter health. Dozens of scrap heaps from the dead bots.
The problem with this game is how inconsistent it is, what one person pessimistically experiences could turn out way differently for someone else.
Thanks for clarifying here.
Seems to me from your explanation Bethesda was counting on player triggered events to replace the NPC triggered events we saw previously (i.e. BoS flying around attacking Raider settlements when spotted). But how often do you enjoy that kinda of happenstance in FO76? I haven't seen a reviewer go into more depth on how often these coincidental crossings happen.
As for Whitesprings working with the player: are you saying there are actually friendly NPCs that the player can work with, other than the canned bots we've seen mention of? It seems a Whitesprings full of human NPCs the player can interact with is completely contrary to what's been reported about the game.
Whitesprings Resort is an NPC run resort, inside you have all these little shops and stations, and there's a little story of what whitesprings is all about. All the bots on site are friendly NPCs, they will protect you (unless you attack them). Outside of the resort they patrol, and will help you kill things. They converse with you, sell you goods, all what you'd expect from a regular NPC faction.
I also read through the article you linked, as it's a PC player and I'm PS4, I can't say how factual some things are that he said. One problem he mentioned was not being able to use stimpaks on his radial menu, whereas it's a hard coded usage on the PS4 D-Pad. There were some other little nitpicky things that are different it seems between versions, but still.
The major issue I've seen, is that most players haven't explored everything. It's very easy to stay in western Appalachia and never venture to the areas that start shifting how the game is played. 30 hours could be a lot of time if spent efficiently, or it could be spent screwing around getting little to nothing done.
I think Bethesda had a solid idea with the way they've presented enemies, I think the games' bugs really make it a game that is tough to truly love, but it's not as bad as a lot of people say. At least, in my experience, but that's not to say that the PC version isn't much worse. I think that's another important factor in the original review. It was a PS4 review.
Whitesprings resort is a faction in itself, they will work with the player as well, they aren't an enemy NPC faction. Most people drop nukes there so they have help to take out the Scorchbeasts, but... it often backfires because if you attack the whitesprings bots, they can turn against you very quickly.
Plus, as you level, the enemies get substantially harder, you can't just headshot and range them perpetually. Enemies post level 50 won't drop off you immediately when you try to retreat to stealth. They run MUCH faster, like, superhumanly fast. Most players probably haven't even ventured into the forest, which is completely different than what we've seen in other fallout games, even way different than other areas of FO76. Enemies there are tougher, some are stealthier, some roam pretty far away.
Enemies also average based upon who is around, if a level 50 has run through an area that usually spawns 20s, low level players could have to deal with level 40 - 68+ enemies.
And while enemies don't necessarily "come alive" until you zone into the area, they can and will be activated by other players events, and remain that way, which is way more alive than most MMOs appear.
An example of this is again, whitesprings resort. I entered and ran through the area through a hole in the fence, found the bots attacking 2 scorchbeasts. Figured I'd leave and come back later, got to an area where I could port out, went to my base, and headed back to the resort 10 minutes later, one scorchbeast was killed, the other at a quarter health. Dozens of scrap heaps from the dead bots.
The problem with this game is how inconsistent it is, what one person pessimistically experiences could turn out way differently for someone else.
Thanks for clarifying here.
Seems to me from your explanation Bethesda was counting on player triggered events to replace the NPC triggered events we saw previously (i.e. BoS flying around attacking Raider settlements when spotted). But how often do you enjoy that kinda of happenstance in FO76? I haven't seen a reviewer go into more depth on how often these coincidental crossings happen.
As for Whitesprings working with the player: are you saying there are actually friendly NPCs that the player can work with, other than the canned bots we've seen mention of? It seems a Whitesprings full of human NPCs the player can interact with is completely contrary to what's been reported about the game.
Whitesprings Resort is an NPC run resort, inside you have all these little shops and stations, and there's a little story of what whitesprings is all about. All the bots on site are friendly NPCs, they will protect you (unless you attack them). Outside of the resort they patrol, and will help you kill things. They converse with you, sell you goods, all what you'd expect from a regular NPC faction.
I also read through the article you linked, as it's a PC player and I'm PS4, I can't say how factual some things are that he said. One problem he mentioned was not being able to use stimpaks on his radial menu, whereas it's a hard coded usage on the PS4 D-Pad. There were some other little nitpicky things that are different it seems between versions, but still.
The major issue I've seen, is that most players haven't explored everything. It's very easy to stay in western Appalachia and never venture to the areas that start shifting how the game is played. 30 hours could be a lot of time if spent efficiently, or it could be spent screwing around getting little to nothing done.
I think Bethesda had a solid idea with the way they've presented enemies, I think the games' bugs really make it a game that is tough to truly love, but it's not as bad as a lot of people say. At least, in my experience, but that's not to say that the PC version isn't much worse. I think that's another important factor in the original review. It was a PS4 review.
Good points. So Whitesprings lacks only NPC characters that are involved in the quest content, then? As in, there's no Detective Nick Valentine that has detective cases you can help him with, or there's no Paladin Danse you find out in the world and help retrieve the piece of tech he needs, etc..
As for the PC vs. PS4, that's a great point to make.
It seems strange, to me, that a site primarily concerned with PC gaming (as both reference to it's general titles covered as well as general audience) would review a console version for its readers... But again, I see reviews as a service to readers, not merely a blog post of one's personal experience with a summary score attached.
Good points. So Whitesprings lacks only NPC characters that are involved in the quest content, then? As in, there's no Detective Nick Valentine that has detective cases you can help him with, or there's no Paladin Danse you find out in the world and help retrieve the piece of tech he needs, etc..
As for the PC vs. PS4, that's a great point to make.
It seems strange, to me, that a site primarily concerned with PC gaming (as both reference to it's general titles covered as well as general audience) would review a console version for its readers... But again, I see reviews as a service to readers, not merely a blog post of one's personal experience with a summary score attached.
Yeah unfortunately, no Nick Valentine. I will admit, there are few NPCs with any real personalities. The real stories, and feelings come through holotapes. The ones at White Springs do have personalities, but I haven't really gotten any quests from them. There are no Paladins that you can talk to, at least that I've found thus far, despite finding and exploring a BoS compound... though I didn't have enough time to explore it thoroughly at the time so I'll head back and see what I can find.
There's a lot that they can do to improve the game. It's really a large game though, I can only imagine trying to review it in such a short time frame. It's hard to get a definitive picture of everything it has to offer, but the bugs... it seems those are easy to find.
Good points. So Whitesprings lacks only NPC characters that are involved in the quest content, then? As in, there's no Detective Nick Valentine that has detective cases you can help him with, or there's no Paladin Danse you find out in the world and help retrieve the piece of tech he needs, etc..
As for the PC vs. PS4, that's a great point to make.
It seems strange, to me, that a site primarily concerned with PC gaming (as both reference to it's general titles covered as well as general audience) would review a console version for its readers... But again, I see reviews as a service to readers, not merely a blog post of one's personal experience with a summary score attached.
Yeah unfortunately, no Nick Valentine. I will admit, there are few NPCs with any real personalities. The real stories, and feelings come through holotapes. The ones at White Springs do have personalities, but I haven't really gotten any quests from them. There are no Paladins that you can talk to, at least that I've found thus far, despite finding and exploring a BoS compound... though I didn't have enough time to explore it thoroughly at the time so I'll head back and see what I can find.
There's a lot that they can do to improve the game. It's really a large game though, I can only imagine trying to review it in such a short time frame. It's hard to get a definitive picture of everything it has to offer, but the bugs... it seems those are easy to find.
Good information.
My ire with this title is two-fold: Bethesda has made moves related to the title that screams a quick buck was wanted, and I'm getting quite tired of what seems to be becoming more and more common: release it unfinished, use the money from the early buyers to finish.
Well first of all,i have seen this before in several games.I am talking about WE the gamer having to make up or read a story pre game or about the game but THE GAME does not do a good job of telling ANY story at all.
You can say whatever you want about WHY what is or how is there,all that players were doing is running around looking for loot and that is it.Once in a while run into something to shoot,yeah exciting.
There is NO game like that,it is simply an empty or at least mostly empty world doing nothing more than being another H1Z1 survival type game and were can't even use the term survival.
This was very obviously a severe lack of effort,they just figured they could sell this on name alone and wanted it out fast.
So because at least imo it does NOTHING well it fails in a rating in every single aspect of design scoring.So it as the very best a 4/10 and that is being generous because a 4 means it is close and it is not close.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Reviews are to inform consumers about potential purchases. It should be done with the majority of your viewers in mind. Not the small percent that could enjoy watching paint dry. Personally, I'm tired of reading extended ads instead of actual reviews on gaming sites.
How is this review NOT informative? It doesn't conform to people who dislike the game's opinion, and that's not the same thing. What you're looking for is for reviewers to be echo chambers of your own personal thoughts. That's NOT what the idea should be. A critic's role isn't to meet your expectations, but to share with you whether a product met their own.
It's not informative because instead of reading about the core aspects of the game like graphics, sound/music, performance, controls, responsiveness, UI, server stability, and bugs I got a story about adolescence.
Having read it, I can say with full confidence that this would be a bad, uninformative review even without a score.
"Here's a metaphor about growing pains. Here's a few stories that you can experience in Fallout 76. And there's a few bugs, but enough of that, let's get back to the metaphor. Everything is okay because Fallout 76 is just a kid."
You may be up for the most contrived Pullitzer nomination in human history, but you utterly failed in writing a review. No discussion of the core gunplay. No discussion of the core gameplay loop. No discussion of how PvP works. No mention of how events work or how monsters scale. Or progression. Or the resource economy. Or the value for money prospect.
Even if the score were reasonably in line with expectations, this would still be unacceptable. A competent review can adequately inform a customer of the experience they can expect. This does not.
I beg to differ. The reviewers analogy does in fact tell what type of gaming experience to expect;
Zits, weird growths in odd places, experimentation with 'recreational pharmaceuticals' because the reality is just too depressing, and a tremendous amount of self pleasuring because the game is a tease
I don't personally care if this game came out good or not but a LOT of eyebrows were raised when somebody or a couple people on this site BEFORE the game arrived said...'THIS IS A GAME WE NEED"
So one has to think WHY would anyone say that about a game before it arrives.Well then i think back and the EXACT same thing happened with Destiny 2,it was like 5-6 months BEFORE the game even hit beta and this site was giving the game high fives all around.I forget the exact thread that was started but it was similar to this Fallout thread of WE NEED idealism this game.
I think far too often threads look biased or to have an agenda pointing at deception.Instead an author/reviewer should give a VERY real account,,the way two friends would talk to each other about a game.
Which leads to my last point,i can't stand FAKE people,i applaud only those that keep it real,no sell jobs no bs.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
In my mind it's always ok not to have quests or NPC's but to just have a world to explore and things to see and read but I don't believe the majority of players would be with me.
That essentially describes Conan Exiles and it's reasonably popular according to Funcom and their financials.
I'd say the lesson several studios and publishers should learn this year is not to disenfranchise the customer base that built you, while you pursue new interests.
Rockstar understands this in my opinion. They delivered a well received single player game and also delivered a more gamified competitive online environment for those fans because they are legion. Despite some grumps about grind this seems to have pleased their fans overall. Additionally, they don't make big promises they can't deliver.
Point of fact, I love Conan Exiles.
But your point in not disenfranchising their player base is very appropriate.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I know a lot of people wish there were NPC's but something tells me, if there were, people would be complaining that it does not fit with the game or the lore or whatever. I personally LOVE not having NPC's. You just emerged from the vault and are trying to start life anew.....how does it make sense to have a bunch of people just standing around? I am not being guided by some random quest giving either - I can explore and go and discover things on my own. The world feels apocalyptic and I really do appreciate it. If there were NPC's standing around and people with exclamation marks over their heads, I personally think it would take away from the game and ruin the experience.
Why would they complain about that when it's been a part of every single Fallout game in the franchise, though?
Also, physics professors will tell you it's just as risky for a human to attempt to live in a vault for 25 years as it would be to come up prior to those 25 years ending.
It's a myth that nuclear radiation at deadly levels persists for years and years and years. Areas contaminated by high levels of radiation usually become safe for decontamination within 5 weeks. Folks would survive the bombs, and they wouldn't need a bunker to do it.
I know a lot of people wish there were NPC's but something tells me, if there were, people would be complaining that it does not fit with the game or the lore or whatever. I personally LOVE not having NPC's. You just emerged from the vault and are trying to start life anew.....how does it make sense to have a bunch of people just standing around? I am not being guided by some random quest giving either - I can explore and go and discover things on my own. The world feels apocalyptic and I really do appreciate it. If there were NPC's standing around and people with exclamation marks over their heads, I personally think it would take away from the game and ruin the experience.
Why would they complain about that when it's been a part of every single Fallout game in the franchise, though?
Also, physics professors will tell you it's just as risky for a human to attempt to live in a vault for 25 years as it would be to come up prior to those 25 years ending.
It's a myth that nuclear radiation at deadly levels persists for years and years and years. Areas contaminated by high levels of radiation usually become safe for decontamination within 5 weeks. Folks would survive the bombs, and they wouldn't need a bunker to do it.
Not to mention that those mutations happened pretty damn fast. You'd think a mutation that gives ex-humans an advantage and allows them to resist higher ambient radiation and morph into something like a super mutant would take several generations. Mutations only happen quickly in species with short life spans and high reproductive rates - think bacteria.
IDK why anyone would bother trying to defend the lack of human NPCs on the basis of scientific realism. FO left the realm of serious Scifi and became fantasy a long time ago. You can kind of get away with mutations of the magnitude seen in FO games if we're talking far future - like several hundred years. Even a couple of hundred years in FO4 stretched credibility. The 25 year time frame for FO76 makes it absolutely laughable.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'd give it a 6 or a 7, probably in the middle. It's far better than people seem to be making it out to be, but nowhere near what it SHOULD be.
And side note: scores, like opinions, are based on personal tastes and preference. Let's keep that in mind before telling someone else, including the writer, what they should think and feel.
I don't know how I'd personally score the game as there's no way in hell I'm getting involved in this disaster. And I feel that so far 76 has been a pretty big black eye for Bethesda. So now you know where I stand in the whole Fallout 76 controversy.
That said I'd recommend a better strategy than just defending Mister Gula's review as his own personal opinion. I suggest like you guys used to do in the past that if someone disagrees with his review and score then to challenge them to step up and put their money where their mouth .. er keyboard is, and write a review themselves.
Too late for that boat on this title... I've seen enough videos and reviews. I'm giving this title the same berth I have Destiny 2: hit me up when a couple expacs iron out the details and you bundle them into one price for me.
I'd give it a 6 or a 7, probably in the middle. It's far better than people seem to be making it out to be, but nowhere near what it SHOULD be.
And side note: scores, like opinions, are based on personal tastes and preference. Let's keep that in mind before telling someone else, including the writer, what they should think and feel.
I don't know how I'd personally score the game as there's no way in hell I'm getting involved in this disaster. And I feel that so far 76 has been a pretty big black eye for Bethesda. So now you know where I stand in the whole Fallout 76 controversy.
That said I'd recommend a better strategy than just defending Mister Gula's review as his own personal opinion. I suggest like you guys used to do in the past that if someone disagrees with his review and score then to challenge them to step up and put their money where their mouth .. er keyboard is, and write a review themselves.
Not to mention that when you insist on putting a number on it you're pretty well inviting numerical one line counters. Rock Paper Shotgun is smart to avoid numbers. You can't really disagree with their reviews simply by saying "it's not a 7 it's a 4" because they don't do 7s or 4s. If you want to disagree with them you're pretty well forced to do your own counter-review.
Of course, you don't get counted on Metacritic and get links from them to your site's review if you don't give it a number... so there is that
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EDIT- the enemies in Fallout 4 are more interesting. Not because they're smarter on an individual basis, but because the NOC groups such as BoS and the Insititute patrolling or exploring can cause dynamic gunfights between the NPCs you happen upon. It's a step backwards from the previous Fallout title itself.
Not to mention the enemies in FO76 are WAY more varied than in FO4. Even now after all my time played I sometimes see a new animal or enemy I haven't seen before.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's a symptom of the lack of NPC factions that aren't just cannon fodder for players. Either way, this reviewer made it very clear he experimented with the AI and found they do nothing without being triggered by players:
"It doesn’t help West Virginia feel any more lived in that the AI enemies do such a poor job of appearing alive. They’re clearly just waiting around for you to turn up and kill them. When Scorched and ghouls aren’t spawning out of thin air, I’ve sat hidden watching them to see how they spend their time and, well, they just stand there, fixed to the same spot.
They only come alive when you walk into their vision, and even then they either run straight at you or hide behind the nearest bit of wall, leaning out periodically to shoot in your direction. And that’s when they work as they’re supposed to. Sometimes they won’t even do that due to some bug hidden away in the code. Often an enemy will stand stock still, inanimate, waiting for you to kill them.
After 30 hours of fighting countless Super Mutants, Scorched, and ghouls – who all behave exactly the same way, suffer from the same bugs, and offer no real challenge – I am completely bored of combat. Now, when I see an enemy, I’m just frustrated that they’re getting in the way. There’s no fun in the 500th headshot against these cretinous creatures."
Their final score is a mere 0.4 off from the average critical score, by the way.
EDIT- forgot link: https://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout-76-pc-review
This idea that FO76 created that storytelling for the franchise is patently false. FO76 didn't actually add anything to the franchise in the narrative department.
Journalists, (good ones anyway) should be able to detach themselves from personal opinion for an honest review. This guy went off on tangents already excusing everything from the very start (which youve failed to address btw) mentioned 2 interesting story bits, glazed over the bugs, 1/4 of the entire thing is what he feels the game needs to , then brought up his horrible puberty analogy again.
Letting your personal opinions influence your writing is called bias, and its been a bad thing in the journalism for ages. Or at least up until recent years I guess, when everyone suddenly decided opinions were as credible and important as facts.
Plus, as you level, the enemies get substantially harder, you can't just headshot and range them perpetually. Enemies post level 50 won't drop off you immediately when you try to retreat to stealth. They run MUCH faster, like, superhumanly fast. Most players probably haven't even ventured into the forest, which is completely different than what we've seen in other fallout games, even way different than other areas of FO76. Enemies there are tougher, some are stealthier, some roam pretty far away.
Enemies also average based upon who is around, if a level 50 has run through an area that usually spawns 20s, low level players could have to deal with level 40 - 68+ enemies.
And while enemies don't necessarily "come alive" until you zone into the area, they can and will be activated by other players events, and remain that way, which is way more alive than most MMOs appear.
An example of this is again, whitesprings resort. I entered and ran through the area through a hole in the fence, found the bots attacking 2 scorchbeasts. Figured I'd leave and come back later, got to an area where I could port out, went to my base, and headed back to the resort 10 minutes later, one scorchbeast was killed, the other at a quarter health. Dozens of scrap heaps from the dead bots.
The problem with this game is how inconsistent it is, what one person pessimistically experiences could turn out way differently for someone else.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Seems to me from your explanation Bethesda was counting on player triggered events to replace the NPC triggered events we saw previously (i.e. BoS flying around attacking Raider settlements when spotted). But how often do you enjoy that kinda of happenstance in FO76? I haven't seen a reviewer go into more depth on how often these coincidental crossings happen.
As for Whitesprings working with the player: are you saying there are actually friendly NPCs that the player can work with, other than the canned bots we've seen mention of? It seems a Whitesprings full of human NPCs the player can interact with is completely contrary to what's been reported about the game.
I also read through the article you linked, as it's a PC player and I'm PS4, I can't say how factual some things are that he said. One problem he mentioned was not being able to use stimpaks on his radial menu, whereas it's a hard coded usage on the PS4 D-Pad. There were some other little nitpicky things that are different it seems between versions, but still.
The major issue I've seen, is that most players haven't explored everything. It's very easy to stay in western Appalachia and never venture to the areas that start shifting how the game is played. 30 hours could be a lot of time if spent efficiently, or it could be spent screwing around getting little to nothing done.
I think Bethesda had a solid idea with the way they've presented enemies, I think the games' bugs really make it a game that is tough to truly love, but it's not as bad as a lot of people say. At least, in my experience, but that's not to say that the PC version isn't much worse. I think that's another important factor in the original review. It was a PS4 review.
As for the PC vs. PS4, that's a great point to make.
It seems strange, to me, that a site primarily concerned with PC gaming (as both reference to it's general titles covered as well as general audience) would review a console version for its readers... But again, I see reviews as a service to readers, not merely a blog post of one's personal experience with a summary score attached.
The real stories, and feelings come through holotapes. The ones at White Springs do have personalities, but I haven't really gotten any quests from them. There are no Paladins that you can talk to, at least that I've found thus far, despite finding and exploring a BoS compound... though I didn't have enough time to explore it thoroughly at the time so I'll head back and see what I can find.
There's a lot that they can do to improve the game. It's really a large game though, I can only imagine trying to review it in such a short time frame. It's hard to get a definitive picture of everything it has to offer, but the bugs... it seems those are easy to find.
My ire with this title is two-fold: Bethesda has made moves related to the title that screams a quick buck was wanted, and I'm getting quite tired of what seems to be becoming more and more common: release it unfinished, use the money from the early buyers to finish.
You can say whatever you want about WHY what is or how is there,all that players were doing is running around looking for loot and that is it.Once in a while run into something to shoot,yeah exciting.
There is NO game like that,it is simply an empty or at least mostly empty world doing nothing more than being another H1Z1 survival type game and were can't even use the term survival.
This was very obviously a severe lack of effort,they just figured they could sell this on name alone and wanted it out fast.
So because at least imo it does NOTHING well it fails in a rating in every single aspect of design scoring.So it as the very best a 4/10 and that is being generous because a 4 means it is close and it is not close.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I beg to differ. The reviewers analogy does in fact tell what type of gaming experience to expect;
Zits, weird growths in odd places, experimentation with 'recreational pharmaceuticals' because the reality is just too depressing, and a tremendous amount of self pleasuring because the game is a tease
So one has to think WHY would anyone say that about a game before it arrives.Well then i think back and the EXACT same thing happened with Destiny 2,it was like 5-6 months BEFORE the game even hit beta and this site was giving the game high fives all around.I forget the exact thread that was started but it was similar to this Fallout thread of WE NEED idealism this game.
I think far too often threads look biased or to have an agenda pointing at deception.Instead an author/reviewer should give a VERY real account,,the way two friends would talk to each other about a game.
Which leads to my last point,i can't stand FAKE people,i applaud only those that keep it real,no sell jobs no bs.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, another site I will assume has been compromised and lacks any integrity towards their readers.
Also, physics professors will tell you it's just as risky for a human to attempt to live in a vault for 25 years as it would be to come up prior to those 25 years ending.
It's a myth that nuclear radiation at deadly levels persists for years and years and years. Areas contaminated by high levels of radiation usually become safe for decontamination within 5 weeks. Folks would survive the bombs, and they wouldn't need a bunker to do it.
IDK why anyone would bother trying to defend the lack of human NPCs on the basis of scientific realism. FO left the realm of serious Scifi and became fantasy a long time ago. You can kind of get away with mutations of the magnitude seen in FO games if we're talking far future - like several hundred years. Even a couple of hundred years in FO4 stretched credibility. The 25 year time frame for FO76 makes it absolutely laughable.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Of course, you don't get counted on Metacritic and get links from them to your site's review if you don't give it a number... so there is that
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED