Latest Camelot Unchained Newsletter Dishes on Class Prototype Design - MMORPG.com News

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Latest Camelot Unchained Newsletter Dishes on Class Prototype Design - MMORPG.com News

The latest Camelot Unchained newsletter has arrived and, as usual, it is packed with information about what the team has been up to over the past month. In this issue, the community is told that it has "a sense of being on the cusp of landing a bunch of different awesome chunks of the game and making big strides forward".

Read the full story here

Viper482

You can call this beta all you want....this game is still in the alpha stage.

killimandros

thats actually true Late alpha but no beta. I beta tested wow, age of conan, lotro as old school games, and they were at a far more advanced stage than CU. 

Quizzical

Does the distinction between late alpha and early beta really matter? They both really just mean that the game isn't ready for launch yet.

ceratop001

I test this game frequently since I'm a donor. It is most assuredly in alpha stage.

Spiider

Please do not tell us anything until you actually leave alpha. Like ZERO lies.

Iselin

Viper482 said:

You can call this beta all you want....this game is still in the alpha stage.

Semantics.

MJ is developing this old school style. The whole idea of people who are not employees or friends and family of employees getting to test an alpha is a modern day marketing scheme popularized by KS games.

This is an early beta by the simple fact that it's being tested by regular players.

Betas can last a year or more and a hell of a lot can change in that time if it's being done properly.

Lokero

Well, it's clear that the game still has a long, long road ahead, but at least it feels(to me) like they are moving at a somewhat steady(er) pace now.

SlyLoK

Every time I see a screenshot of this game I login and wonder what game it came from because I don't see it in game...

Wizardry

That is a weird reason to post something to onlookers.So your building classes in a rpg,yeah we figured that much,but thanks for the insight.
So it's intent was not really to inform us of any important information but more to just remind us...hey look over here,wanna join !!.

Well it is one pay grade above threads that tell us how many accounts or players a game has,those are really intuitive threads.

Hatefull

The actual news letter had quite a bit of information, to someone that is actually interested in the game and the design process they are following.

Viper482

Quizzical said:

Does the distinction between late alpha and early beta really matter? They both really just mean that the game isn't ready for launch yet.

Yes, it does to me because words do matter bro. When I as a backer am looking for honesty and accuracy in where the game is in development you bet your arse it matters. Beta has always been a complete or near complete game that still requires testing to identify and fix unknown bugs that come through players actually playing the game....that is what beta is for. Prototype class design in beta? You can say "early" beta all you want, prototype class design is alpha.

Viper482

Iselin said:

Viper482 said:

You can call this beta all you want....this game is still in the alpha stage.

Semantics.

MJ is developing this old school style. The whole idea of people who are not employees or friends and family of employees getting to test an alpha is a modern day marketing scheme popularized by KS games.

This is an early beta by the simple fact that it's being tested by regular players.

Betas can last a year or more and a hell of a lot can change in that time if it's being done properly.

Umm no it is not semantics dude. Alpha and Beta stages of game development are literally two different things, the words actually have meaning to people. Maybe you don't care what stage they call it but I do. And players bought into alpha with their backer package....just so you know. I was one of them. So don't tell me how "old school" is doing things, because he is not. Fanboy blindness is bad for everyone.

Viper482

SlyLoK said:

Every time I see a screenshot of this game I login and wonder what game it came from because I don't see it in game...

This. I have not appreciated the way this game has been represented to us for a long time. In game the game looks like a half-shined dog turd but they pass off these screenshots as if it is not. Then they move on to "beta" when it really has no business being called beta. It is all shady shit. As someone who put money into this game I will be as vocal about it as I wish. Get over it. Yes I am salty over this game, you guessed it. I was a hardcore Daoc player and jumped on this game in a split second. I am salty about what I have perceived as deceptional communications for a couple of years now. Until I see a finished product I really don't even want to hear anything MJ has to say.

ChildoftheShadows

Wizardry said:

That is a weird reason to post something to onlookers.So your building classes in a rpg,yeah we figured that much,but thanks for the insight.
So it's intent was not really to inform us of any important information but more to just remind us...hey look over here,wanna join !!.

Well it is one pay grade above threads that tell us how many accounts or players a game has,those are really intuitive threads.

Are YOU feeling ok today?

redonyou

In case some of you weren't aware, City State Entertainment puts out these newsletters every single week. They aren't all jam packed full of life-changing revelations. I'm disappointed the game isn't further along in development too, but I don't see how throwing a tantrum about it is going to change that. At least they're making an effort to be transparent throughout development.

As for why you don't see that exact building in-game, it's likely something a player created on the cube server - which is a separate server used solely for testing out the building system.

Lokero

redonyou said:

In case some of you weren't aware, City State Entertainment puts out these newsletters every single week. They aren't all jam packed full of life-changing revelations. I'm disappointed the game isn't further along in development too, but I don't see how throwing a tantrum about it is going to change that. At least they're making an effort to be transparent throughout development.

Wizardry said:

That is a weird reason to post something to onlookers.So your building classes in a rpg,yeah we figured that much,but thanks for the insight.
So it's intent was not really to inform us of any important information but more to just remind us...hey look over here,wanna join !!.

Well it is one pay grade above threads that tell us how many accounts or players a game has,those are really intuitive threads.

I, for one, really enjoy their newsletters.

They are more for the people who actually care about the development process and what they are working on.  If all you take away from their newsletters is "we are making game" then just skip them altogether.  None of them are going to be massive news alerts.

Typically, people who subscribe to newsletters subscribe because they are interested in what's actually going on consistently.

I like hearing the details of how they are designing things.  Some of their engine features have been fascinating to read about.

There's really no winning with info releases.  If you don't post often, people spam and harass you for information and assume the project is abandoned or vaporware.

If you give out actual blogs, newsletters, streams, etc., on a regular basis, then people whine about that, too.

It's probably not really worth the effort to speak to the community, since people tend to remain just as unhappy when you do.  But, I'm glad that CU does it.

H0urg1ass

Does anyone know how much total this game has raised for development?

From what I understand it's six years into development, and raised $17 million initially.  Knowing what I know about MMORPG development cycles, they usually take about 5 years to complete and significantly more capital than $17 million.

Six years and it's still effectively in Alpha?  That's quite a bit behind the usual development cycle.

I realize they don't have the funds of a BioWare, NCSoft or the Former Sony Online Entertainment, but still... games that take this long to gestate without hundreds of millions in backing don't usually make it.

JamesGoblin

H0urg1ass said:

Does anyone know how much total this game has raised for development?

From what I understand it's six years into development, and raised $17 million initially.  Knowing what I know about MMORPG development cycles, they usually take about 5 years to complete and significantly more capital than $17 million.

Six years and it's still effectively in Alpha?  That's quite a bit behind the usual development cycle.

I realize they don't have the funds of a BioWare, NCSoft or the Former Sony Online Entertainment, but still... games that take this long to gestate without hundreds of millions in backing don't usually make it.

If I remember correctly, last they mentioned was $17.5M some months ago; the problem with crowdfunding games is that we don't know the final (pre-launch) number since it grows slowly and unpredictably, it can stop anywhere between $20M and $30M. It is also a huge problem for developers, unlike AAAs with which you compare them.

Connected to that and your "six years", Kickstarter finished on May 2nd 2013 and, in their own words, they entered full production in late 2013 - if one can call that ~20 guys working on an MMORPG. I'd say their development started fully with new programmers in Seattle studio couple years ago, while still having much less than your typical AAA.

There is more big differences I'll skip (innovation, money for PvE etc.),so such parallels can be misleading but I agree with you that it all happens dangerously slowly.

cheyane

SlyLoK said:

Every time I see a screenshot of this game I login and wonder what game it came from because I don't see it in game...

I think that is the rendered art not what is in game.

H0urg1ass

JamesGoblin said:

H0urg1ass said:

Does anyone know how much total this game has raised for development?

From what I understand it's six years into development, and raised $17 million initially.  Knowing what I know about MMORPG development cycles, they usually take about 5 years to complete and significantly more capital than $17 million.

Six years and it's still effectively in Alpha?  That's quite a bit behind the usual development cycle.

I realize they don't have the funds of a BioWare, NCSoft or the Former Sony Online Entertainment, but still... games that take this long to gestate without hundreds of millions in backing don't usually make it.

If I remember correctly, last they mentioned was $17.5M some months ago; the problem with crowdfunding games is that we don't know the final (pre-launch) number since it grows slowly and unpredictably, it can stop anywhere between $20M and $30M. It is also a huge problem for developers, unlike AAAs with which you compare them.

Connected to that and your "six years", Kickstarter finished on May 2nd 2013 and, in their own words, they entered full production in late 2013 - if one can call that ~20 guys working on an MMORPG. I'd say their development started fully with new programmers in Seattle studio couple years ago, while still having much less than your typical AAA.

There is more big differences I'll skip (innovation, money for PvE etc.),so such parallels can be misleading but I agree with you that it all happens dangerously slowly.

Ahhh, ok, I didn't realize the KS finished on 2013 and started production near 2014.

I can reasonably see four years of hard ass work for ~20 guys having a game in Alpha state.  That's actually better than I would expect for those funds and that size team.

Don't get me wrong, I really want this game to succeed, so I wasn't poo poo'ing it at all.  I just didn't know the correct timeline.  I'm really stoked for the next couple of MMORPG's coming out like this and Crowfall.

JamesGoblin

H0urg1ass said:

Don't get me wrong, I really want this game to succeed, so I wasn't poo poo'ing it at all.  I just didn't know the correct timeline.

Yep, I understood that from your previous post. And just to clarify, they had 20 people back in 2013, at the moment they have 29 employees enlisted on their website - https://citystateentertainment.com/the-team/

Quizzical

Viper482 said:

Quizzical said:

Does the distinction between late alpha and early beta really matter? They both really just mean that the game isn't ready for launch yet.

Yes, it does to me because words do matter bro. When I as a backer am looking for honesty and accuracy in where the game is in development you bet your arse it matters. Beta has always been a complete or near complete game that still requires testing to identify and fix unknown bugs that come through players actually playing the game....that is what beta is for. Prototype class design in beta? You can say "early" beta all you want, prototype class design is alpha.

And what about games that add additional classes months or years after launch?  Are they still in alpha, too?

Quizzical

H0urg1ass said:

Does anyone know how much total this game has raised for development?

From what I understand it's six years into development, and raised $17 million initially.  Knowing what I know about MMORPG development cycles, they usually take about 5 years to complete and significantly more capital than $17 million.

Six years and it's still effectively in Alpha?  That's quite a bit behind the usual development cycle.

I realize they don't have the funds of a BioWare, NCSoft or the Former Sony Online Entertainment, but still... games that take this long to gestate without hundreds of millions in backing don't usually make it.

How long money lasts depends not just on how much there is, but also on how fast you burn through it.  $17 million won't last you six years with a staff of 200 full time developers, but it could last a lot longer than that with a staff of five.

MadFrenchie

Viper482 said:

SlyLoK said:

Every time I see a screenshot of this game I login and wonder what game it came from because I don't see it in game...

This. I have not appreciated the way this game has been represented to us for a long time. In game the game looks like a half-shined dog turd but they pass off these screenshots as if it is not. Then they move on to "beta" when it really has no business being called beta. It is all shady shit. As someone who put money into this game I will be as vocal about it as I wish. Get over it. Yes I am salty over this game, you guessed it. I was a hardcore Daoc player and jumped on this game in a split second. I am salty about what I have perceived as deceptional communications for a couple of years now. Until I see a finished product I really don't even want to hear anything MJ has to say.

Good on you, if you got skin in the game you should definitely let MJ and his team know if you feel they could do something differently that would make you feel better about your support.

I would only caution to limit the hyperbole on it, as you and I both know that can color your information in a way that obscures the true intent and point.

SlyLoK

redonyou said:

As for why you don't see that exact building in-game, it's likely something a player created on the cube server - which is a separate server used solely for testing out the building system.

I didn't mean the building. The screenshots look a million times better than the actual game does.