Fallout 76 Players Given Lifetime Ban for Homophobic Attacks

Kyleran

kitarad said:

Problem is you need better qualification than game developer and perhaps degrees in psychology and know how human beings interact to be able to anticipate this. They need to spend money on this and most companies won't bother. They will only react not anticipate.

Problem is these days you read about teens committing suicide over social media comments and if they are not careful this type of harassment can result in even more dire consequences. 

This game is supposed to be 17+ but I bet all my gumdrops that teens younger than 17 are playing.

I've been playing PVP centric MMORPGS  for a very long time and don't need a degree in anything to know far too many players act like asshats when online, so "controls" are necessary to maintain proper social order.

A stick to the miscreant's behinds would also be appropriate,  but only so much developers can do unfortunately. 

ConstantineMerus

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Depends on the context. Not just the words. I can be a racist without using any of the words you'd categorize under hate speech. And I can be talking to my best mate and you'd do so as hate speech. 

Problem with hate speech definition is it doesn't consider the context, but words alone. 

klash2def

Phry said:

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

That's not a fact, that's a baseless accusation. 

Baseless? Try harder. 

It's not up to me to try harder to provide reasons when you are accusing someone else of something - it is up to you. 

Hate speech is a term used to describe things people say that others find offensive, as has often been pointed out, to do such a thing is a dangerous and harmful proposition, because it is a matter of opinion as to what is classed as being hate speech, there is no definition other than it being something that offends others, as always who gets to decide what is and is not 'hate speech', its always the worst person possible. People on this forum of which klash2def is but one have said things that i find offensive, does that mean i can accuse them of hate speech, by the very definition of the term, yes i absolutely can. Thats why the term 'hate speech' is not just misleading, its wrong.

You sound pretentious. You are confused on what hate speech is and what being offensive is. Stop this because they are not exactly the same. There is no opinion of what HATE SPEECH is. Wtf are you talking about seriously. 

There is a opinion of what offends people yes, like idk "I hate the color blue" might offend some people because its their favorite color but calling me a nworder is always gonna be offensive, there is no "I get to pick if its offensive" because its fucking offensive. Its hate speech period frankly wtf are you talking about. 

The term hate speech Its not misleading its not wrong, using homophobic slurs, racial slurs even in jest towards is hate speech the moment it leaves the mouth. again super wtf are you talking about. 

Phry

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?

klash2def

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Depends on the context. Not just the words. I can be a racist without using any of the words you'd categorize under hate speech. And I can be talking to my best mate and you'd do so as hate speech. 

Problem with hate speech definition is it doesn't consider the context, but words alone. 

See that's the problem right there. You think the context matters, dude listen to me. There is no context ever where its okay to use racial slurs. Why are you trying to separate racism from hate speech, its the same shit. I dont care who you are talking to. Its hate speech. 

you have never and will never experience it so you are speaking from a place of ignorance altogether. 

klash2def

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?

Sit this one out big dog. 

There is only one way to interpret what you said:

"If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. "

10/10 people would say according to your words, that you believe hate speech isn't real. Sit down. Bad try at trying to change the narrative. 

ConstantineMerus

klash2def said:

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Depends on the context. Not just the words. I can be a racist without using any of the words you'd categorize under hate speech. And I can be talking to my best mate and you'd do so as hate speech. 

Problem with hate speech definition is it doesn't consider the context, but words alone. 

See that's the problem right there. You think the context matters, dude listen to me. There is no context ever where its okay to use racial slurs. Why are you trying to separate racism from hate speech, its the same shit. I dont care who you are talking to. Its hate speech. 

you have never and will never experience it so you are speaking from a place of ignorance altogether. 

So Eddie Murphy and Dave Chapelle must KKK members who happen to be black. They do a lot of hate speech if you remove the context.

ConstantineMerus

Anyways since it is a gaming site I'm gonna leave it at that. I'll gladly read your thoughts if you can back them with reason on how the context is irrelevant and will reflect on your words. Other than that I can't rationalize removing the context just because you feel so. Cheers mate. 

Kyleran

FlyByKnight said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

kitarad said:

^^^ ahh you can turn it off.

Of course you can.  And anyone who even lifted a finger to try could see it quite easilly...

Not picking on Suzy here as others say the same thing... but come on folks, at least make an effort here. It's literaly the first choice under Audio. There is more than enough legitimate to complain about in the game. No need to make stuff up.

And by the way you can also set it to just your group.

Good deal on that clarification.

I'm interested in hearing what everybody thinks should be the default values for voice chat out of the box or how it should be handled by developers in general.

I think having group on by default is fine, with any other interactions being a request with Yes/No prompt.

I would expect to hear and chat with people I grouped up with so having it on by default makes sense.

General proximity chat should be an opt in feature as you suggested.

klash2def

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

ConstantineMerus said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Depends on the context. Not just the words. I can be a racist without using any of the words you'd categorize under hate speech. And I can be talking to my best mate and you'd do so as hate speech. 

Problem with hate speech definition is it doesn't consider the context, but words alone. 

See that's the problem right there. You think the context matters, dude listen to me. There is no context ever where its okay to use racial slurs. Why are you trying to separate racism from hate speech, its the same shit. I dont care who you are talking to. Its hate speech. 

you have never and will never experience it so you are speaking from a place of ignorance altogether. 

So Eddie Murphy and Dave Chapelle must KKK members who happen to be black. They do a lot of hate speech if you remove the context.

Stop talking to me about black context. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Dave and Eddie do black satire. Dave was making a satire about a real life black person who tried to join the KKK. Context matters for black people, in our community yea, because if we thought Dave or Eddie were racist against their own people they would have been cancelled years ago, see because we are all black we understand what dave is doing, the context being he is a BLACK satirical artist. That's the only context that we need. We speak different, we have our own lingo, and everyone knows. Our lingo isn't hate speech, its how we speak to each other, we took the power out a lot of words that used to be weaponized against us. That's our fight not yours. Stop trying to inject yourself into shit that's not yours. 

There is a big difference between Black Professional Satire artist and WHITE racist 15-35 year old men on PSN or XB Live. You as a white male don't get to say any of that shit chappelle says at least not without facing the consequence if heard by the wrong person or people. 

Just looking out for you. 

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

Phry

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?

Sit this one out big dog. 

There is only one way to interpret what you said:

"If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. "

10/10 people would say according to your words, that you believe hate speech isn't real. Sit down. Bad try at trying to change the narrative. 

I have asserted that hate speech isn't real and even provided one of the many arguments that explains why it is wrong, hideously wrong, that does not mean that things people say cannot be offensive, just that the term itself creates injustice.
People say things that others find offensive all the time, thats life and if there is one thing that the freedom of speech guarantees is that you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, hate speech is a term used as a form of censorship and that inevitably hurts everyone, because once you start treading down the path of saying that people do not have the right to say anything that can be found offensive by anyone, freedom of opinion of thought of association are the casualty.
Hate speech is just a tool of oppression, laws protecting people from abuse whether by word of mouth or physical already exist in abundance without such draconian measures as 'hate speech' 
Jordan Peterson explains this so much better than i ever could, i just wish to god more people would listen more and not be so quick to judge others they disagree with, we are imperfect beings that make mistakes from time to time, if we can't even talk about things without worrying if someone is offended then we'll never solve our problems

Slapshot1188

Xarko said:

This whole FO76 voice chat thing shows how easily can a game dev get disconnected from gaming reality. Imagine implementing always on voice chat and actually believing it will help immersion. In the "survival" game including "PvP" of all games. 

Anyone playing multiplayer games actively would know that's a one shit idea.

Yet another person with the "always on voice chat" misinformation.   

This thread is a perfect example of folks who hear a blurb in the press or from a friend and just believe the "fake news".

The Voice Chat can be turned off or switched to group only.  It is LITERALLY the first option under audio.

klash2def

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?

Sit this one out big dog. 

There is only one way to interpret what you said:

"If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. "

10/10 people would say according to your words, that you believe hate speech isn't real. Sit down. Bad try at trying to change the narrative. 

I have asserted that hate speech isn't real and even provided one of the many arguments that explains why it is wrong, hideously wrong, that does not mean that things people say cannot be offensive, just that the term itself creates injustice.
People say things that others find offensive all the time, thats life and if there is one thing that the freedom of speech guarantees is that you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, hate speech is a term used as a form of censorship and that inevitably hurts everyone, because once you start treading down the path of saying that people do not have the right to say anything that can be found offensive by anyone, freedom of opinion of thought of association are the casualty.
Hate speech is just a tool of oppression, laws protecting people from abuse whether by word of mouth or physical already exist in abundance without such draconian measures as 'hate speech' 
Jordan Peterson explains this so much better than i ever could, i just wish to god more people would listen more and not be so quick to judge others they disagree with, we are imperfect beings that make mistakes from time to time, if we can't even talk about things without worrying if someone is offended then we'll never solve our problems

You have no idea what hate speech is do you.

Slapshot1188

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

klash2def

@Phry Hate Speech isn't just "Judging people we disagree with." super pretentious of you to think you can just boil such a sensitive thing down to just "Disagreeing".  But, Let me help. 

Hatred: Racial Slurs, Homophobic Slurs, Sexist slurs,  etc

Hate Speech: Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. - Official Definition

Excuse the raw form but for effect i'm not blurring out any of these hate speech slurs. I don't want you being confused on what hate speech looks like.

"Why are there niggers in my game" 
"You stupid faggot"
"Stay in the kitchen you dumb bitch"
"I hope all Muslims die."

I heard all of these this week in ONE game. Those are four examples out of millions used daily. again.. I very plainly ask wtf you are talking about. 

Stop equating your own personal limited belief to others very real reality. Its real. No matter how much you want to tuck your head under the cover and pretend its not. As a white person instead of acting like its not real, you should try being an ally to the people affected. Stand up and say something when you see that shit. There should be a no tolerance policy for hate speech on all media platforms. It does not matter what you personally believe. 

Bananable

"Fallout 76 Players Given Reward for Homophobic Attacks"
LOLZ

This is so stupid, i personally dont care what you do in your free time. But why do i need this ShiFt in the game?!  This stupid devs/publishers desperate PR is so annoying.
Can you imagine you come to grocery store to buy something and some employee tell you "Im gay"? You are in a rush so at first you dont even understand whats his talking about. So you impatiently repeat to him what you need, but he gets offended and runs to manager.    >.>


Um, btw is there game somewhere in this HUGE pile of yellow press?
Oh yea, there isnt! Its FU 76, somebody actually still expecting something good from it?
Seriously! This game looks like GTA online, but worse. Whole point of which is to bother to other players. And thats how devs intended to.



P.S. When i played Gw2, guilds asked to join RC or TS. 
First time there was women talking what are "great" BFs they have. Second time some guy in female voice sang Fergie glamorous....
This is not about gays. Its just stupid annying pointless information. And its not working because people use to share with someone whos close or atleast to someone who have same interests, not some strangers with their own problems. And now bi*ching about it publicly is a thing...because thats what streamers do...when they stream those boooooring games. 
Ive watched some lets play (Dying light) on YT. It was stream record from twitch. The guy is like 30 years old, he played with his friend. They were so bored, but they have to talk about something, so they talk about his constipation...
Adult guy. On public video. That suppose to advertise the game/his channel. That kids watch for fun (some even DONATE). Was talking about his personal problems.    >.>

Slapshot1188

Somewhat related article I recently read: https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-addicted-to-outrage-is-there-a-cure-1543620811

I thought it was a good read.

Phry

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

klash2def said:

Phry said:

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Hate speech isn't real. Fact.

Hate Speech is very real and if you say otherwise you more than likely practice hate speech often.

Fact.  

Fun fact for you. If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact.

man huh?


What do you call homophobic slurs? What do you call Racial slurs? What do you call sexist slurs? Oh I'm sorry, I must've missed the memo where all those things are considered Love and not hate. 

Not what i was saying, in fact i find your interpretation of what i was saying as being deeply offensive. Are you engaging in 'hate speech' ?

Sit this one out big dog. 

There is only one way to interpret what you said:

"If you consider Hate speech as being real, then you have been using it against others. Also Fact. "

10/10 people would say according to your words, that you believe hate speech isn't real. Sit down. Bad try at trying to change the narrative. 

I have asserted that hate speech isn't real and even provided one of the many arguments that explains why it is wrong, hideously wrong, that does not mean that things people say cannot be offensive, just that the term itself creates injustice.
People say things that others find offensive all the time, thats life and if there is one thing that the freedom of speech guarantees is that you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, hate speech is a term used as a form of censorship and that inevitably hurts everyone, because once you start treading down the path of saying that people do not have the right to say anything that can be found offensive by anyone, freedom of opinion of thought of association are the casualty.
Hate speech is just a tool of oppression, laws protecting people from abuse whether by word of mouth or physical already exist in abundance without such draconian measures as 'hate speech' 
Jordan Peterson explains this so much better than i ever could, i just wish to god more people would listen more and not be so quick to judge others they disagree with, we are imperfect beings that make mistakes from time to time, if we can't even talk about things without worrying if someone is offended then we'll never solve our problems

You have no idea what hate speech is do you.

Unfortunately i have very real concerns about things like that. 
https://www.christianconcern.com/our-issues/freedom/scotlands-alarming-hate-posters
When you 'invent' a crime such as 'hate speech' the results are not pretty and are easily turned into 'persecution' there are already enough existing laws that protect people from abuse, without criminilising peoples critical opinions that are often 'fact based' and if you think that doesn't happen then you are perhaps the one who needs to read between the lines of what 'hate speech' means.

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living at the highest level. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

I will admit I do hear the black kids using homophobic slurs and when I do, I tell them its not cool. I explain why its not and they usually don't do it again the rest of the session. I am the same way I am here on this forum I am everywhere. I am very passionate about human rights and equality. If I'm making a difference in 1 persons life then so be it. Whatever it takes. As long as the seed is planted that that shit is wrong that's all I can hope for. 

Also just because you don't experience something, does not indicate it does not happen and often. 

Kyleran

Solar_Prophet said:

Was it stupid? Yes. Were they clearly laughing, joking, and making the comments in a tongue-in-cheek fashion as opposed to espousing actual hatred of homosexuals? Yes. 

The 3-day ban was arguably appropriate, since there was clearly no malice involved. A permanent ban is a gross overreaction, though given the overall quality of FO76 I'd say Bethesda was actually doing them a favor.

As for the guy who reported them, well, he needs to grow a much thicker skin. If this kind of thing sends him crying to Mommy Bethesda, he's going to have a very hard time in this world when he runs across actual hate based on superficial characteristics. There are no safe spaces to run to in the world at large. 

I suspect the permaban came after the perpetrators posted the video up themselves, not from the initial report.

Only in the internet are people somewhat safe from repercussions from distasteful behavior.

There are no parallels in real life where behaving as these folks did would earn a stern rebuke at the very least, likely escorted out the door in most establishments, and in the case of my employer be fired.

It's far past time for good men and women to do something, even on the internet.

rodarin

TheScavenger said:

parrotpholk said:

FlyByKnight said:

Also, are we all going to make believe that a person who would go "queer hunting" at a strangers expense (no matter the circumstance) doesn't have a character/personality flaw that might need some addressing? Let's not do that.

Assuming that they have a flaw or mental defect is a dangerous road to go down.

Some might argue that a person who swears they are one gender while biologically another has a flaw or defect.  That thought process is not the way to go because it can be turned around and we all wind up in the nut house.  

Why it is so hard to accept that some people just have a different idea of funny or what is normal?  This stuff has always been a part of the human condition in that some just do not like different and no amount of public service announcements or laws is going to change that.

Again once it escalates to violence we are talking a different ballgame.  The internet, social media and the 24 hour so called news cycle has brought to the forefront what has always been there.  This is every culture and not just in America so anyone who thinks their society is somehow above it all is full of shite.

hate speech isn't funny

Not to go all crazy about this but says who? A lot of people hate the president why? A lot of people hate his opponents why? A lot of people hate cats. A lot of people hate dogs. A lot of people talk bad about a lot of things and people. Just because a majority or even a lot of people THINK something doesnt make it true or false.

News flash--- people have hated other people for no 'good' reason since there have been people. People have talked bad about people for as long as there have been people.

The greatest irony to all this is the hypocrisy that has crept into one side (both sides) or the other when they describe their 'haters'. SO while the 'sympathetic' side can say and spew all the 'hate' speech they want the offending side is the real problem. Its pretty funny. As in humorous. But not to the side getting targeted. 

What about People who believe in God or some religion being subjected to hearing people say "Jesus Christ'' or 'God Damn it' or any other epithet that people say that offends another group? (and breaks one of the 10 commandments which i know doesnt mean anything these days). Why are people who swear or use profanity to the point of excess banned or even reprimanded? And dont use the "religious people shouldnt be playing (fill in the game name here)'' because that is as stereotypical and one sided as thinking homosexuals or blacks or white or (fill in the group here) shouldnt be playing a certain game or around a certain  atmosphere. Now an argument MIGHT be made that those words arent being being directly aimed at a single person. But if a group of guys went around screaming 'you F-ing Bible thumpers, collar wearing no sex before marriage virgins' or if they targeted a Mormon specifically (with all the things Mormons do that people find hilariously funny and easy to pick on) then what?

No matter what you or me or anyone thinks someone is going to find something someone says about someone else or a group of someone elses that is off color or 'wrong' or even 'hate speech' and some people are going to find it not only funny but hilarious.

Of course it can go too far (on both sides) where it becomes 'cruel' but then again who determines that thresh hold?

The FO 76 guys can do whatever they want to whomever they want. Its their game. But when people all start trying to play morality police those people need to just stop.

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life. 

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and  I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are.  Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters.  We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.  

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

Arthurpendragon

klash2def said:

@Phry Hate Speech isn't just "Judging people we disagree with." super pretentious of you to think you can just boil such a sensitive thing down to just "Disagreeing".  But, Let me help. 

Hatred: Racial Slurs, Homophobic Slurs, Sexist slurs,  etc

Hate Speech: Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. - Official Definition

Excuse the raw form but for effect i'm not blurring out any of these hate speech slurs. I don't want you being confused on what hate speech looks like.

"Why are there niggers in my game" 
"You stupid faggot"
"Stay in the kitchen you dumb bitch"
"I hope all Muslims die."

I heard all of these this week in ONE game. Those are four examples out of millions used daily. again.. I very plainly ask wtf you are talking about. 

Stop equating your own personal limited belief to others very real reality. Its real. No matter how much you want to tuck your head under the cover and pretend its not. As a white person instead of acting like its not real, try being an ally to the people affected. Stand up and say something when you see that shit. There should be a no tolerance policy for hate speech on all media platforms. It does not matter what you personally believe. 

being gay and black  i long ago learned where the blacklist function is on every online game i play  .. you would think in 2018 that people weren't as stupid/intolerable as they are an i wouldnt have to do that. i currently  dont plan to play this game cause of all the bugs i hear about not because of this fiasco. just wanted to let you know i appreciate you trying to educate the masses on here but as you can see from the responses on here it;s just some people you never gonna get through to. when you're raised a certain way and/or only around a certain subset of people majority or their lives they dont either care/want to understand what may offend anyone outside their "bubble".. its sort of that "get over it " attitude that i seen within people who dont understand what is hate speech... until it directly affects them or a family member. way too many young people out here losing their lives to suicide because of words people need to wake up. 

cheyane

I disagree that by complaining this means the person complaining is weak and they will fall apart in real life. Au contraire , I think the person is using what means is available to them and making sure they get the persons that bothered them into trouble. It's payback, best form since they got banned for life.

I think they got the last laugh. Has it ever occurred to you that people these days understand the climate very well and use it to their benefit. Why should I have to change channel or server or switch off something when I can get rid of you instead?

They stayed and made sure they recorded all the juicy bits and spread it around and got the douches banned. Nice hatchet job...bravo!

We the older generation were the morons that kept quiet and took shit, fight back and make it a lethal blow...banned for life now there's a punishment that didn't fit the crime but damn it felt good didn't it. Young people these days are bad ass and they are using the methods that work currently. What worked for us don't work for them. 

Kyleran

ceratop001 said:

I have a controversial different take on this. I'm for not banning anyone. If you can't handle words you are way to sensitive. I'm not politically correct. PvP should be ruthless and crazy. Let all things happen. Good or bad people are who they are. I feel today's younger generation is way too sensitive and needs to toughen up a bit. I love it when players can say what they want and do what they want. It makes PvP more exciting and tactical. Words can't hurt you. They are just words and you can ignore it.

Cheers...

Let's make it even more exciting and require players to post their real  life names and addresses so they never know who might show up for some "real PVP."

What,  no? Man up boyo.