Modern business, amplified with mmorpg's

delete5230

Their in it for the fast up front money.  The big money is made early. 
The commercial on TV is more important than the game it self.


After that it's non-profitable maintenance, they expect layoffs.  The marketing and advertisement is paid one time and that's in the beginning.  They average REPUTATION vs COST and often would sacrifice reputation if huge profit can be made.  They actually look that far ahead, it's the new standard practice.

CEO's take positions temporarily, they want their time to count, while in office they leave the mess for the next guy.  Refer to American politics, companies do the same.  This is not learned in business school, its what they do afterwards. 

Note: 
Notice players thoughts are not taken into account in above ?......This seems amplified with the mmrpg industry, production time is way over the top, yet they want profit anyway.  Gamers see it most.   
   



Story: 
I worked for the largest optical media company in the world.  We mass produced at least 70% of all Compact Disc, DvD and Blue Ray on the market.  
Most smaller label's ?.... Secret, we made them too. 

Our CEO was ruthless.  He didn't care about people or product, he cared about maximum profit.  We watched him screw others to make it to the top.  We all watched his clime unfold.  It was genius yet evil, it was amazing, he was a scary person in a business suit. 

The very first thing he did is cut maintenance downtime on machines, nothing got serviced or oiled, all this against engineering recommendation's.  Second he cut Quality Control all together, and had operators do testing but threatened them with massive output of product... Quality went down fast, yet try and prove it.   

His motto, he openly told us....Make money today, you don't know what the future holds, MAKE MONEY NOW ! 
  

Designer, developer, the software people are nothing.  Their workers that can be replaced.
This is Blizzard. This is World of Warcraft. This is all mmorpg's     

delete5230

MMORPG's will never regress from how business is run now.  It would be counter productive to resort back to passion.  Anything with passion would have to come from the small guy !

TEKK3N

delete5230 said:

Designer, developer, the software people are nothing.  Their workers that can be replaced.
This is Blizzard. This is World of Warcraft. This is all mmorpg's     

This is how big business work, not just the gaming industry.

The number one enemy for the quality of a product/service has a name, and it's not the overall Profit.
It's the Profit Margin.

If you ever ran or managed a company, you will understand what I am talking about.

Being profitable is not good enough, you also need to produce a high Margin or you are not doing a good job as a manager (AKA you will lose the job even if the company is making profit).

You can only increase the margin in 2 ways:
1: You cut the costs
2: You raise the revenues without increasing the costs (but it's a rare scenario).

So in general raising your Margin means cutting labor costs, Customer Service, Quality Control, Quality of raw materials and so on.

So in short, the reason why the Margin figure is so detrimental for the quality of a product/service is that, as a Manager, you are forced to cut the costs even if the company is making a nice profit, or else you might lose your job (or your Bonus).

delete5230

TEKK3N said:

delete5230 said:

Designer, developer, the software people are nothing.  Their workers that can be replaced.
This is Blizzard. This is World of Warcraft. This is all mmorpg's     

This is how big business work, not just the gaming industry.

The number one enemy for the quality of a product/service has a name, and it's not the overall Profit.
It's the Profit Margin.

If you ever ran or managed a company, you will understand what I am talking about.

Being profitable is not good enough, you also need to produce a high Margin or you are not doing a good job as a manager (AKA you will lose the job even if the company is making profit).

You can only increase the margin in 2 ways:
1: You cut the costs
2: You raise the revenues without increasing the costs (but it's a rare scenario).

So in general raising your Margin means cutting labor costs, Customer Service, Quality Control, Quality of raw materials and so on.

So in short, the reason why the Margin figure is so detrimental for the quality of a product/service is that, as a Manager, you are forced to cut the costs even if the company is making a nice profit, or else you might lose your job (or your Bonus).

Absolutely agree.... Thanks for adding 

Vhayne

I saw this decades ago with CompUSA.  I worked for them for years selling computers.  Each year, the profit margin goal would go up by at least 1%.  

I kept asking them, "You do realize how hard it was to maintain it at the previous goal right? (giving discounts on all sorts of stuff, giving things away for free - just to sweeten the deal and make the sale) How are we supposed to maintain this new goal??" 


Obviously, they went under.   

Ungood

This only applies for business that do not plan to be around long term. Tech Industries are in fact like this, because they have a short life, IE: CD's may or may not have been replaced in a few years by something else, case in point, most people now use flash drives and almost no one uses CD's anymore.

This is the reality of the Tech Industry, they need to make the money now, because they may not be able to tomorrow. What is big today is dead tomorrow.

That is how they function.

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

It's really the nature of the industry. 

delete5230

Ungood said:

This only applies for business that do not plan to be around long term. Tech Industries are in fact like this, because they have a short life, IE: CD's may or may not have been replaced in a few years by something else, case in point, most people now use flash drives and almost no one uses CD's anymore.

This is the reality of the Tech Industry, they need to make the money now, because they may not be able to tomorrow. What is big today is dead tomorrow.

That is how they function.

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

It's really the nature of the industry. 

Good points and all is true. I like your chainsaw example, that hit home and I fully understand your point.  

Much like my story of a CEO being ruthless, they think deeply on profit margin and only that.  They foresee the future and have no intention of being in that product for the long haul.  It's much more profitable to hit-and-run. That's where the money is.  

Many of us want the long haul...Too much costly maintenance for them. Blizzards WoW is the exception, however they ruthless too in other ways.   

Cryomatrix

Vhayne said:

I saw this decades ago with CompUSA.  I worked for them for years selling computers.  Each year, the profit margin goal would go up by at least 1%.  

I kept asking them, "You do realize how hard it was to maintain it at the previous goal right? (giving discounts on all sorts of stuff, giving things away for free - just to sweeten the deal and make the sale) How are we supposed to maintain this new goal??" 


Obviously, they went under.   

I worked for CompUSA when I was 18 in 1999. I knew they were going under because their stores looked like a setup for a horror movie.

Cryomatrix

Vhayne

Cryomatrix said:

Vhayne said:

I saw this decades ago with CompUSA.  I worked for them for years selling computers.  Each year, the profit margin goal would go up by at least 1%.  

I kept asking them, "You do realize how hard it was to maintain it at the previous goal right? (giving discounts on all sorts of stuff, giving things away for free - just to sweeten the deal and make the sale) How are we supposed to maintain this new goal??" 


Obviously, they went under.   

I worked for CompUSA when I was 18 in 1999. I knew they were going under because their stores looked like a setup for a horror movie.

Cryomatrix

Haha, I miss it though. 

Quizzical

Ungood said:

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

If chainsaws haven't changed much in 80 years, then why does one vendor alone feel the need to offer 42 different models?

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/product-selector/chain-saws-product-selector/

I'll bet that they offered exactly zero of those models 80 years ago.  Probably 30 years ago, too.

From a cursory investigation, 80 years ago, chainsaws used neither gasoline nor aluminum.  They were enormously heavy and often required two people to operate.  That's not at all similar to today's models that you can hold in your hands without needing to drag a power cord around.  The modern versions are far more powerful than what they could offer eighty years ago, too.  And that's to say nothing of a ton of little improvements that people who don't use chainsaws wouldn't notice.

Ungood

Quizzical said:

Ungood said:

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

If chainsaws haven't changed much in 80 years, then why does one vendor alone feel the need to offer 42 different models?

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/product-selector/chain-saws-product-selector/

I'll bet that they offered exactly zero of those models 80 years ago.  Probably 30 years ago, too.

From a cursory investigation, 80 years ago, chainsaws used neither gasoline nor aluminum.  They were enormously heavy and often required two people to operate.  That's not at all similar to today's models that you can hold in your hands without needing to drag a power cord around.  The modern versions are far more powerful than what they could offer eighty years ago, too.  And that's to say nothing of a ton of little improvements that people who don't use chainsaws wouldn't notice.

That's Stihl, and, some of their models have been around 40+ years.

Some of their saws are still being used after 60+ years in the fields.

yah.. now, about those 42 styles.. and they all look roughly the same, or did you miss that?



In fact do you know what the difference between a 320 Farmboss and a 420 is? The piston, I know this, because I had to rebuild both those saws where I worked, and all their other parts are interchangeable.

So as I said.. largely unchanged.

Kyleran

Quizzical said:

Ungood said:

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

If chainsaws haven't changed much in 80 years, then why does one vendor alone feel the need to offer 42 different models?

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/product-selector/chain-saws-product-selector/

I'll bet that they offered exactly zero of those models 80 years ago.  Probably 30 years ago, too.

From a cursory investigation, 80 years ago, chainsaws used neither gasoline nor aluminum.  They were enormously heavy and often required two people to operate.  That's not at all similar to today's models that you can hold in your hands without needing to drag a power cord around.  The modern versions are far more powerful than what they could offer eighty years ago, too.  And that's to say nothing of a ton of little improvements that people who don't use chainsaws wouldn't notice.

I can't speak to 80 years ago, even I'm not that old.

But 40 years ago I spent 6 weeks clearing land with chain saws that functionally aren't much different from todays models.

Maybe a little lighter, and while some are electric you still need gas powered for heavy duty clearing.

Ungood

I would also like to add, for anyone reading this, the 320 Farmboss was a 20+ year old discontinued saw, and the 420 was 2 years old... Same Exact Parts.. 

Theocritus

Vhayne said:

Cryomatrix said:

Vhayne said:

I saw this decades ago with CompUSA.  I worked for them for years selling computers.  Each year, the profit margin goal would go up by at least 1%.  

I kept asking them, "You do realize how hard it was to maintain it at the previous goal right? (giving discounts on all sorts of stuff, giving things away for free - just to sweeten the deal and make the sale) How are we supposed to maintain this new goal??" 


Obviously, they went under.   

I worked for CompUSA when I was 18 in 1999. I knew they were going under because their stores looked like a setup for a horror movie.

Cryomatrix

Haha, I miss it though. 

I do miss the video game stores where we could go for a couple hours and just look at the new titles....Buying things online seems so cold and empty, not even a box for our trouble.

laserit

Ungood said:

This only applies for business that do not plan to be around long term. Tech Industries are in fact like this, because they have a short life, IE: CD's may or may not have been replaced in a few years by something else, case in point, most people now use flash drives and almost no one uses CD's anymore.

This is the reality of the Tech Industry, they need to make the money now, because they may not be able to tomorrow. What is big today is dead tomorrow.

That is how they function.

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

It's really the nature of the industry. 

Chain saws are always evolving. If your not constantly researching and investing in your products and production methods your doomed to extinction. You have lots of Global competition.

Exporting and losing all your production capability is so short term and foolish.

Easy come, easy go.

   

Ungood

laserit said:

Ungood said:

This only applies for business that do not plan to be around long term. Tech Industries are in fact like this, because they have a short life, IE: CD's may or may not have been replaced in a few years by something else, case in point, most people now use flash drives and almost no one uses CD's anymore.

This is the reality of the Tech Industry, they need to make the money now, because they may not be able to tomorrow. What is big today is dead tomorrow.

That is how they function.

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

It's really the nature of the industry. 

Chain saws are always evolving. If your not constantly researching and investing in your products and production methods your doomed to extinction. You have lots of Global competition.

Exporting and losing all your production capability is so short term and foolish.

Easy come, easy go.

   

This is not Not true at all.

Let me ask you a question, do you really think that a Honda is made any intrinsically Different then a Ford?

laserit

Ungood said:

laserit said:

Ungood said:

This only applies for business that do not plan to be around long term. Tech Industries are in fact like this, because they have a short life, IE: CD's may or may not have been replaced in a few years by something else, case in point, most people now use flash drives and almost no one uses CD's anymore.

This is the reality of the Tech Industry, they need to make the money now, because they may not be able to tomorrow. What is big today is dead tomorrow.

That is how they function.

Now, on the flip side of that, Chainsaw makers are better served to invest in the long term, as  Chainsaws have remained largely unchanged for the last 80+ years, thus investing in quality the first time, and maintaining their production equipment, builds their cost effectiveness of production, as after a time, they recapped their original outlay on their equipment, and thus their profit margins go up naturally overtime.

It's really the nature of the industry. 

Chain saws are always evolving. If your not constantly researching and investing in your products and production methods your doomed to extinction. You have lots of Global competition.

Exporting and losing all your production capability is so short term and foolish.

Easy come, easy go.

   

This is not Not true at all.

Let me ask you a question, do you really think that a Honda is made any intrinsically Different then a Ford?

Like the chainsaw, the process of making a Honda and a Ford has been and is still evolving. It will always evolve. Of coarse their manufacturing processes are very similar My own manufacturing and fabricating processes are always evolving. When I or one of competitors purchase new tech to improve on a process the other must follow suit. Ford didn't invent robotics on their assembly line, they and Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Porsche, etc. etc. purchased them from the companies that do. 

I just ordered a fully automated forming machine with a price tag of just over a million dollars.

 

A million dollars is a very significant investment for me, I'm a small fry. Two year ago I bought my sixth laser since 1992 at a cost of 1.2 million



 I invest between 1 to 1.5 million dollars every couple years on major piece of evolving technology to improve my processes. Do things cheaper and improve my delivery time. The competitors who don't eventually disappear. I've seen plenty over the years disappear. If I didn't I would of disappeared. The companies who make the technology I purchase are constantly evolving and improving their products and processes or they will end up disappearing as some have.

I need to do that in order to survive and flourish. Stihl, Ford and Honda do the same on a much bigger scale.

Stihl makes chainsaws faster and more efficiently than they ever have, their designs and processes certainly have changed and still are changing.

Gdemami

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

ConstantineMerus

Gdemami said:

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

Back in my day we used to shoot people for having an opinion. World was indeed a better place. 

delete5230

Back 40 years ago when I was around 13 years old, I was obsessed with hunting so my father bought me a hunting rifle I wanted.  It was a Remington model 760 pump action 30-06. I loved that gun, if I could I would sleep with it.  Anyway since then they cheapened it in many ways and called it the Model 7600, few years later they cheapened it more and called it the Model 6. 

So it often works in reverse, much like mmorpg's   

delete5230

Automobile manufactures, 
As manufacturing plants are focusing on making vehicles, their marketing departments are constantly striving to give false incentive's. Their also trying to capitalize on the maintance by making their products unrepairable by private auto repair stations. 

A good example:
Somewhere back in the early 80s, they interduce computers where you needed to have the authorized repair stations diagnose problems with their analyzers.  Very soon after people cracked any code they could come up with to combat this trickery.... However to this day their still trying to stop the small guy. 

Good example 2: 
Somewhere back in the early 80's they interduce FORCED power windows, door locks, Air conditioning and many others.... People complained to no avail, they didn't want to pay for this.  



New car dealerships are trying to take over used car sales (they call it pre-owned). 
They came up with a tricky idea, they call "certified used vehicle", where they check the tires breaks and fluids and give an inflated warranty at top dollar.  This is all very basic stuff and only have to meet minimum state law requirement's, if it does they don't do anything.   

It's all about marketing tricks !!!!!!…. This is mmorpg's

Kyleran

Gdemami said:

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

Well most of have jobs and real world experience, but hear some folks actually read (go figure) or study subjects of interest. 

Good thing we are here for you.

  

Kyleran

ConstantineMerus said:

Gdemami said:

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

Back in my day we used to shoot people for having an opinion. World was indeed a better place. 

Used to? I live in Florida remember.

Kyleran

delete5230 said:

Back 40 years ago when I was around 13 years old, I was obsessed with hunting so my father bought me a hunting rifle I wanted.  It was a Remington model 760 pump action 30-06. I loved that gun, if I could I would sleep with it.  Anyway since then they cheapened it in many ways and called it the Model 7600, few years later they cheapened it more and called it the Model 6. 

So it often works in reverse, much like mmorpg's   

Very true, sometimes more modern and cost saving manufacturing processes have led to lower quality, household appliances are rife with this.

Few may remember, but we actually had car batteries 40 years ago with 5 year warranties which actually lasted more than 5 years. These days I rarely get much past three years regardless what I buy.

Ten year incandescent light bulbs were a thing in 1990, but manufacturers quickly brought a halt to both.

Planned obsalecense is a significant driver in many companies design decisions. 

ConstantineMerus

Kyleran said:

ConstantineMerus said:

Gdemami said:

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

Back in my day we used to shoot people for having an opinion. World was indeed a better place. 

Used to? I live in Florida remember.

I live in the wrong continent. I'm gonna retire there. Do you have death penalty?

TEKK3N

Kyleran said:

Gdemami said:

I love this site, it is so resourceful.  There are so many experts, literally on anything!

Well most of have jobs and real world experience, but hear some folks actually read (go figure) or study subjects of interest. 

Good thing we are here for you.

  

Slowly the dude is getting an education.
In few years time, he might be able to come out of the basement and face the real world.

PS: I just replied because I need my daily Gdemani LOL.
My day won't be complete without it.