I deeply mistrust games that cost too much in development, MMO or not. You spent 500 million dollars on this game ? Well, then I'm not gonna touch that crap. Because you will want your money back and even if you sell the game 10 million times, you still need at least $50 from every player. And thats $50 pure profit, mind ! Not price in the shop.
I also specifically strongly oppose too elaborate graphics in MMOs.
Thats because a MMO needs LOTs of content, and it needs a HUGE gameworld. The more you have to work on graphics the less you will have left for the real content.
Thats why I would maintain that graphics should require maybe 50% to 75% of total resources (graphics, even "cheap" graphics, are a ton of work either way) needed for development, but not more. For example, the graphics of SWTOR seemed a good choice. Not ugly, but not too overly fancy either. Great to make a lot of gameworld with a ton of story in them.
MMOs are to be played very longterm. A game with good longterm motivation absolutely needs an excellent game core. Graphics might look great for a couple of hours, but if then you forget about them.
Games with excellent graphics, thats what offline is for. The game only lasts a couple hours, the hardware demands are insane, sure go ahead, do that then.
Well often the better the graphics the more demand it puts on teh system....If youre talking MMO, then high graphics and alot of people often equals a problem.
It really depends on how the game looks altogether. If the graphics are bad but it still has some charm, then that's fine. Or even if it looks dated, that's fine too as long as it looks coherent.
If done correctly I think any graphical style could work, and I'm not looking for anything with ultra realism, although if they can pull it off and it is smooth, then I'm all for that too.
For me Animations > Graphics but with that said i need to feel immersed when playing a MMO and if the graphics are 2 generations behind like say Project Gorgon was i just can't get into it. Despite the fact everything else was perfect.
I would've voted for Nintendo graphics if the option wasn't bugged. Sure, better graphics are nice to have, but if it's between better gameplay/more content/faster development time and pretty pixels, I'll go with the former every single time.
IMO graphics whores who choose the latter are a major factor in the decline of the genre.
gameplay > graphics. are graphics important? sure, but with out good gameplay it doesn't matter how pretty the game is
I totally agree with that, but I'd still not play a game with isometric "2.5D" graphics like UO even if it has amazing gameplay.
Real 3D is the minimum for me now for an immersive world.
Note that I played countless hours of Minecraft, but I used high resolution texture patches and the game is 3D.
Although I agree with this in general I think there is amazing art and quality in 2D hand drawn fighters like Blazblue, it just looks stunning. I also like their new 3D gone 2D style used in the new Guilty Gear games but secretly prefer the old ways. It just looks so, so good. Then again, I´ve had an obsession with 2D fighters and their looks since SSF2CE on the Genesis and my favourite console, the Saturn. So perhaps I am biased....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Know why it should matter? Graphics are the very core of a VIDEO game,they help to bring the world to life render objects to look believable/real. Graphics is basically 90% of a game,without them ,you have the engine and empty artwork.If i wasn't so lazy i would load up a simple map and show you what it looks like without the FACE.
IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
yeah i said i was lazy so this is someone else's video.Skip to 40 seconds and you'll see what a blank map and a character looks like with no textures/face,it is NOT what anyone would accept for gaming. Graphics matter 100%. What i feel the OP is actually eluding too is level of detail.This also matters to me because lack of detail does a WORSE job of bringing the visual to life. There are of course several levels of detail,i feel most accept them somewhere in between.I doubt there is a single person that needs 10/10 graphics,well perfect could never be achieved anyhow.
You know, the game i have spent countless of hours in has no graphics at all. It's called Nethack. Graphics can be a huge factor but it doesn't matter 100%.
Style is more important than actual graphical quality for me, and gameplay trumps graphics.
That said though, some old games have design choices or engine limitations of the time that are simply an annoyance by today's standards. For example some old games have TERRIBLE camera controls that are so archaic compared to games now that it is just annoying.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
gameplay > graphics. are graphics important? sure, but with out good gameplay it doesn't matter how pretty the game is
I totally agree with that, but I'd still not play a game with isometric "2.5D" graphics like UO even if it has amazing gameplay.
Real 3D is the minimum for me now for an immersive world.
Note that I played countless hours of Minecraft, but I used high resolution texture patches and the game is 3D.
I have to show my inner snobbishness... UO's graphics were why I did not play it back then. I chose EQ's 3D graphics instead. There is something about 2D (or even 2.5D) that just misses with me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I would probably enjoy them, but then the criteria to enjoy them would be that much higher.
For example I did enjoy UO, but thats also when I was new to gaming. SO for me to enjoy UO again, it would be more for the little tid bits I enjoyed and not the grind in any way. So its not UO really at that point, but just a combat system. And it would need to have players ready to pvp, or I would be not doing anything that I would want to do in UO.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
2D or even 2,5D graphics don't do it for me. We are not in 1999 anymore.
I agree. I was fine with that back in the days of the Commodore 64 but my PC is built to maximise graphics. I never buy games that are 2D and 2.5D because they're really just an excuse for lazy programming touted as "Retro" to the rubes.
Know why it should matter? Graphics are the very core of a VIDEO game,they help to bring the world to life render objects to look believable/real. Graphics is basically 90% of a game,without them ,you have the engine and empty artwork.If i wasn't so lazy i would load up a simple map and show you what it looks like without the FACE.
IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
yeah i said i was lazy so this is someone else's video.Skip to 40 seconds and you'll see what a blank map and a character looks like with no textures/face,it is NOT what anyone would accept for gaming. Graphics matter 100%. What i feel the OP is actually eluding too is level of detail.This also matters to me because lack of detail does a WORSE job of bringing the visual to life. There are of course several levels of detail,i feel most accept them somewhere in between.I doubt there is a single person that needs 10/10 graphics,well perfect could never be achieved anyhow.
<Quote> IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
We all want good graphics Here's the problem with everyone that want's good graphics
You can't have both.....Rich game play and good looks. You can't think personal, you need to think technical.
Know why it should matter? Graphics are the very core of a VIDEO game,they help to bring the world to life render objects to look believable/real. Graphics is basically 90% of a game,without them ,you have the engine and empty artwork.If i wasn't so lazy i would load up a simple map and show you what it looks like without the FACE.
IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
yeah i said i was lazy so this is someone else's video.Skip to 40 seconds and you'll see what a blank map and a character looks like with no textures/face,it is NOT what anyone would accept for gaming. Graphics matter 100%. What i feel the OP is actually eluding too is level of detail.This also matters to me because lack of detail does a WORSE job of bringing the visual to life. There are of course several levels of detail,i feel most accept them somewhere in between.I doubt there is a single person that needs 10/10 graphics,well perfect could never be achieved anyhow.
<Quote> IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
We all want good graphics Here's the problem with everyone that want's good graphics
You can't have both.....Rich game play and good looks. You can't think personal, you need to think technical.
I'm not sure why you believe that to be true. You can have both. We already have games that excel in both. I understand arguing that gameplay is much harder to get right compared to graphics, and gameplay can make or break your game while graphics may not. But that doesn't mean that both goals are possible.
The matter of graphic isn't how much detail it is but how it make you feel comfortable when look at .
For example UO graphic vs Diablo 1 graphic . I still enjoy Diablo 1 graphic even 20 years had pass from it release but UO graphic is ... kind of hard to look at it now
And smooth animation is must , no matter what kind of style you chose .
It depends on the game. Graphics is just a part of the whole. I usually want great graphics but games with poor combat, limited inventory, too many time-sinks, forced mini-maxing, not being able to share at least some inventory with alts, no account wide purchases, usually turn me off. Also, if I feel like the amount of work required to play the game is off, such as work not being equal to rewards is bad, just kills the game for me.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Does anyone remember Firefall? I loved how the game world looked. It was partly cell shaded but not fully. And it also meant that you didn't need a state of the art PC to run it. Man, I miss that game. That game world was beautiful.
Do you consider smoothness of Character movement and animations as part of graphics? If yes, top notch If not, just general good graphics. The smoothness is much more important to me.
Comments
also cartoony graphics can be top knotch...
but its not the graphics that are important
most important are the annimations..
bad annimations give me the shiveers
and turn me off
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If done correctly I think any graphical style could work, and I'm not looking for anything with ultra realism, although if they can pull it off and it is smooth, then I'm all for that too.
Aloha Mr Hand !
IMO graphics whores who choose the latter are a major factor in the decline of the genre.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I dont play old school games.
I would probably enjoy them, but then the criteria to enjoy them would be that much higher.
For example I did enjoy UO, but thats also when I was new to gaming. SO for me to enjoy UO again, it would be more for the little tid bits I enjoyed and not the grind in any way. So its not UO really at that point, but just a combat system. And it would need to have players ready to pvp, or I would be not doing anything that I would want to do in UO.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
mmorpg junkie since 1999
IF anyone says graphics don't matter,they are either completely ignorant of graphics or are lying.
We all want good graphics
Here's the problem with everyone that want's good graphics
You can't have both.....Rich game play and good looks. You can't think personal, you need to think technical.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If yes, top notch
If not, just general good graphics. The smoothness is much more important to me.