Your right it factually is a point of view, and I think you are naive if you believe "one society has deemed it unacceptable that shouldn't be tolerated". Its a vocal minority taking control of positions of power and bullying others to enforce such a doctrine. Its actually past the slippery slope where arbitrarily some people have forced their will upon others. Oddly enough its the EXACT same action of hate and intolerance, but apparently its okay to be intolerant and hateful against people who differ with "your opinion".
To provide a more succinct example of why this type of action is wrong. Person A "I hate gays they are the evil of the world" , person B "I Hate people who hate gays they are the evil of the world". In our twisted world of regressive progressives somehow person B has become righteous hero for committing the same act of generic hate.
No, I can just look at things without trying to frame it into a neat little equilibrium for equlibrium's sake when the moral compass clearly points a specific direction.
The reason folks don't see those who hate racists as the same level of terrible as the racists is because one's hate is directed arbitrarily at a people for no rational reason; the other's hate is directed at the racist because that worldview has proven to both be morally atrocious and dangerous in the past.
Nothing about that means I ever said it was okay for someone to break the law in violence against the racist. More apropos, if someone breaks the rules of conduct Blizzard lays out, no matter the side they support, I support the company taking action.
Because that's what's going on here. This isn't some form of suppression of free speech; it's a company setting rules for business associates regarding their business interactions. If Blizzard feels the actions of the players reflect on their league, they have every right to allow or disallow contenders based on whatever criteria they believe will best serve the interests of the league.
Not going to waste more time arguing with someone who simply isnt logical and can't reason beyond emotions. You've been hoodwinked into thinking that hating someone because of their looks is somehow different or worse than hating someone because of how they think under the phoney guise of "you cant change your looks but you can change how you think!". Its non sense hating is hating and trying to rationalize or justify away acceptable reasoning only changes it in your mind. We wont even get into the fact that people have learned to protect themselves as a natural survival trait by "sticking to their own and distrusting people who are different" has been demonized into "RAYCIST is the most evilestist thing in the world". Yet the entirety of human existence people have been raped slaughtered and pillaged by people who look different and it still happens today all over the world.
If you understood and cared about freedom the first and most important part of freedom is being able to think how you wish, if you cant protect that there is no freedom NONE.
But more on topic the real issue is not blizzard trying to shape the conduct of the people int heir esports, thats their right.choice the line that is being crossed which is dangerous and MANY MANY people are pointing out that you seem to be in denial of of is that they are trying to enforce their behavior policing into other aspects of people lives that blizzard has 100% zero domain over. A persons twitch account is 100% NONE OF BLIZZARDS BUSINESS. If we do not fight this type of minuscule tyranny now soon it will be your social security number and bank account to be impounded with jail time for your "perceived" bad behavior.
In many instances right and wrong is a fluid measurement that changes overtime with social and cultural norms, in a healthy free society people must be insulted from thought police period. Lets not even get into the fact its arbitrary and subjective material with little bearing on reality often with never ending double standards. Oh I'm gay its okay for me to gay bash but you are hetero your not allowed! Oh im a comedian I can make fun of xyz, you're not so you can't.
Is Amazon going to buy Blizzard? they own Twitch right now afaik so linking the two effectively means its linking your battlenet account to Amazon right?
Which you can link to your cable provider, mobile phone and every other aspect of your digital life, wonderful isn't it?
Can't edit, so I need to add: at least here in the U.S., race and other characteristics are actually protected from discrimination in the business sector as well. Blizzard can't arbitrarily decide Korean gamers can't play in their league unless they can prove a really, really good reason for this that's related to a business interest.
having a local league is NOT discriminating by race ^^
you make it sound like the states are an IP lock free zone, which i kinda doubt :P
A region lock isn't actually a policy against a certain race, though. It's a policy against/for certain regions that might contain members of multiple races or ethnicities. It could result in de facto discrimination, but again, if the business interest is legit, the courts could very well decide the company is within their rights. That's different than, say, locking out Koreans in the local area which specifically targets user based solely on their race/ethnicity and, as such, is illegal unless there's an overwhelming business need supporting it. I.e., if there were a new gene therapy treatment, but the risks for a certain genetic population that corresponds to an ethnicity (for our example, let's say Koreans) are vastly higher than for other races or ethnicities, the business might very well be in the right to refuse to perform that procedure on individuals from the higher risk gene pool.
The sad bit with all this thought policing is that nobody talks in these games any more, because nobody wants to offend anybody, since people take offense for any random arbitrary reason.
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
The sad bit with all this thought policing is that nobody talks in these games any more, because nobody wants to offend anybody, since people take offense for any random arbitrary reason.
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
It's literally as simple as not being a complete asshead towards others. If someone finds that too restrictive, they aren't worth communicating with in the first place.
Is Amazon going to buy Blizzard? they own Twitch right now afaik so linking the two effectively means its linking your battlenet account to Amazon right?
Which you can link to your cable provider, mobile phone and every other aspect of your digital life, wonderful isn't it?
I knew there was a reason why i don't have cable or a mobile phone.
The sad bit with all this thought policing is that nobody talks in these games any more, because nobody wants to offend anybody, since people take offense for any random arbitrary reason.
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
I disagree; I've never, ever avoided conversation online merely because I thought I might accidentally offend someone.
If I say something offensive, I have the wherewithal to know it before I say it. If it's borderline, I still have the wherewithal to notice it and prepare to clarify if needed.
Folks saying they can't figure out what's offensive or how to handle a situation where they might inadvertently say something offensive either A) literally are so inept at social conversation they can't tell, B ) doesn't give a shit and just wants to have their own version of a "safe space" where they can be complete assholes unimpeded, or C) is too lazy to consider what they're saying before they say it.
None of those scenarios spur me into action to change it in a way that enables said person.
The sad bit with all this thought policing is that nobody talks in these games any more, because nobody wants to offend anybody, since people take offense for any random arbitrary reason.
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
I disagree; I've never, ever avoided conversation online merely because I thought I might accidentally offend someone.
If I say something offensive, I have the wherewithal to know it before I say it. If it's borderline, I still have the wherewithal to notice it and prepare to clarify if needed.
Folks saying they can't figure out what's offensive or how to handle a situation where they might inadvertently say something offensive either A) literally are so inept at social conversation they can't tell, B ) doesn't give a shit and just wants to have their own version of a "safe space" where they can be complete assholes unimpeded, or C) is too lazy to consider what they're saying before they say it.
None of those scenarios spur me into action to change it in a way that enables said person.
Freedom of speech means you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, its a sad indictment that some people find the truth offensive, worse that they would try to censor it on that basis.
The sad bit with all this thought policing is that nobody talks in these games any more, because nobody wants to offend anybody, since people take offense for any random arbitrary reason.
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
I disagree; I've never, ever avoided conversation online merely because I thought I might accidentally offend someone.
If I say something offensive, I have the wherewithal to know it before I say it. If it's borderline, I still have the wherewithal to notice it and prepare to clarify if needed.
Folks saying they can't figure out what's offensive or how to handle a situation where they might inadvertently say something offensive either A) literally are so inept at social conversation they can't tell, B ) doesn't give a shit and just wants to have their own version of a "safe space" where they can be complete assholes unimpeded, or C) is too lazy to consider what they're saying before they say it.
None of those scenarios spur me into action to change it in a way that enables said person.
Freedom of speech means you have the right to say things that some people might find offensive, its a sad indictment that some people find the truth offensive, worse that they would try to censor it on that basis.
Freedom of speech applies only where the government is involved in limiting your speech. This includes any specifics about what businesses can and can't do to limit your speech and where. Current law does not force companies to allow you to use whatever speech you want within things like their company-owned and managed applications or business associations. Riot is violating no one's freedom of speech, nor is Blizzard.
And what truth as you speaking of? That's a pretty wide generalization to be considered evidence in support of an argument.
People got banned for commenting "gg" when their team lost, because somebody reported them as being offensive. So there's that.
Got any proof of that?
Do a search on "gg ez", you'll find tons of evidence.
Yes, and I immediately found clarification from Riot: the reports of those gg ezs lead to accounts being reviewed and a pattern of negative behavior being uncovered that previously went unreported.
No problems there. Quit being an asshole to everyone you play with: problem solved.
Freedom of speech is irrelevant. What is relevant is fostering a hostile environment by over-policing your game.
They have every right to do so, though. Just like you have a right to criticize them here for it.
I'm merely pointing out that from my POV toxic rules have a detrimental effect on the social part of these games.
What's next, post something on facebook and lose your steam account?
If you're in business with Steam and your actions on Facebook might cost them revenue? Yup. But repercussions to one's actions aren't extraordinary; at least, not until the anti-PC crowd went fucking nuts and decided being anti-PC meant they should be allowed to be shitty people to others and no one should be able to judge them for it.
EDIT- Specific case in point:
From Riot, after the offender tried to disingenuously claim he got banned for "GG ez": "No. You didn't say ggez in the game you were penalized for at all.
You called people idiots, autistic, and feeders along with telling people to kill themselves and to fuck themselves.
Additionally you've already been warned numerous times.
You have an intentional feeder ban and a chat restriction before this."
I wish that Riot would bring back the Tribunal. Hell, I wish every game would. One, because it's fucking hilarious (often more fun to participate in than the game itself), and two because it shows other players exactly how bad the human fuck-storms being reviewed are.
All teenagers are anti-PC by definition. So I'm not surprised that they would rebel when they see game companies trying to play morality police.
Personally I would feel disinclined to spend money on a PvP game where snarky comments could retroactively deny me a paid product. So what if somebody "teabags" somebody else, or we should ban them for it?
I think I'm going off topic though with this, since Blizzard is talking about a chat service and not their game services. Blizzard does have a history of overreacting of course, though what drove me away from their games was their lootbox predatory practices, not their thought policing.
Or just stop watching that specific "Twitch Channel" all together because forcing people to link their accounts is flat out stupid some people choose not to disclose private information to companies such as "Twtitter" "FaceBook" or "Twitch" so when you link your account your providing your email, or account name to Twitch.
Not like they are going to do anything bad one would hope but still some people would rather not link their info.
I wish that Riot would bring back the Tribunal. Hell, I wish every game would. One, because it's fucking hilarious (often more fun to participate in than the game itself), and two because it shows other players exactly how bad the human fuck-storms being reviewed are.
Tribunal was nothing but troll, and Toxicity any little thing you did or someone didn't agree with they would spam punish.
Every since Tribunal Removal i've yet to see a ban, chat mute, or restriction on my acconut which proves that "Tribunal" wasn't there for justice but rather just to punish people who saw a person doing bad in a specific game, or for telling someone to stop being toxic in chat then letting them know you muted them.
Toxic players would just spam punish on Tribunal which is the reason I pushed for removal along with others and it finally got removed because it just didn't do it's job.
Comments
No, I can just look at things without trying to frame it into a neat little equilibrium for equlibrium's sake when the moral compass clearly points a specific direction.
The reason folks don't see those who hate racists as the same level of terrible as the racists is because one's hate is directed arbitrarily at a people for no rational reason; the other's hate is directed at the racist because that worldview has proven to both be morally atrocious and dangerous in the past.
Nothing about that means I ever said it was okay for someone to break the law in violence against the racist. More apropos, if someone breaks the rules of conduct Blizzard lays out, no matter the side they support, I support the company taking action.
Because that's what's going on here. This isn't some form of suppression of free speech; it's a company setting rules for business associates regarding their business interactions. If Blizzard feels the actions of the players reflect on their league, they have every right to allow or disallow contenders based on whatever criteria they believe will best serve the interests of the league.
Not going to waste more time arguing with someone who simply isnt logical and can't reason beyond emotions. You've been hoodwinked into thinking that hating someone because of their looks is somehow different or worse than hating someone because of how they think under the phoney guise of "you cant change your looks but you can change how you think!". Its non sense hating is hating and trying to rationalize or justify away acceptable reasoning only changes it in your mind. We wont even get into the fact that people have learned to protect themselves as a natural survival trait by "sticking to their own and distrusting people who are different" has been demonized into "RAYCIST is the most evilestist thing in the world". Yet the entirety of human existence people have been raped slaughtered and pillaged by people who look different and it still happens today all over the world.
If you understood and cared about freedom the first and most important part of freedom is being able to think how you wish, if you cant protect that there is no freedom NONE.
But more on topic the real issue is not blizzard trying to shape the conduct of the people int heir esports, thats their right.choice the line that is being crossed which is dangerous and MANY MANY people are pointing out that you seem to be in denial of of is that they are trying to enforce their behavior policing into other aspects of people lives that blizzard has 100% zero domain over. A persons twitch account is 100% NONE OF BLIZZARDS BUSINESS. If we do not fight this type of minuscule tyranny now soon it will be your social security number and bank account to be impounded with jail time for your "perceived" bad behavior.
In many instances right and wrong is a fluid measurement that changes overtime with social and cultural norms, in a healthy free society people must be insulted from thought police period. Lets not even get into the fact its arbitrary and subjective material with little bearing on reality often with never ending double standards. Oh I'm gay its okay for me to gay bash but you are hetero your not allowed! Oh im a comedian I can make fun of xyz, you're not so you can't.
Have a nice day.
If so there is the reason why chat suddenly has to be cleaned up after decades of gaming companies not really being that bothered about it.
Which you can link to your cable provider, mobile phone and every other aspect of your digital life, wonderful isn't it?
The end result is merely amplifying the toxic environment. If people want to socialise with others, why play these games with their anti-social rules?
If I say something offensive, I have the wherewithal to know it before I say it. If it's borderline, I still have the wherewithal to notice it and prepare to clarify if needed.
Folks saying they can't figure out what's offensive or how to handle a situation where they might inadvertently say something offensive either A) literally are so inept at social conversation they can't tell, B ) doesn't give a shit and just wants to have their own version of a "safe space" where they can be complete assholes unimpeded, or C) is too lazy to consider what they're saying before they say it.
None of those scenarios spur me into action to change it in a way that enables said person.
And what truth as you speaking of? That's a pretty wide generalization to be considered evidence in support of an argument.
What's next, post something on facebook and lose your steam account?
No problems there. Quit being an asshole to everyone you play with: problem solved.
EDIT- Specific case in point:
From Riot, after the offender tried to disingenuously claim he got banned for "GG ez": "No. You didn't say ggez in the game you were penalized for at all.
You called people idiots, autistic, and feeders along with telling people to kill themselves and to fuck themselves.
Additionally you've already been warned numerous times.
You have an intentional feeder ban and a chat restriction before this."
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/cBfF2qVH-saying-gg-ez-made-me-get-perma-banned#comment-0008
Personally I would feel disinclined to spend money on a PvP game where snarky comments could retroactively deny me a paid product. So what if somebody "teabags" somebody else, or we should ban them for it?
I think I'm going off topic though with this, since Blizzard is talking about a chat service and not their game services. Blizzard does have a history of overreacting of course, though what drove me away from their games was their lootbox predatory practices, not their thought policing.
Not like they are going to do anything bad one would hope but still some people would rather not link their info.
Every since Tribunal Removal i've yet to see a ban, chat mute, or restriction on my acconut which proves that "Tribunal" wasn't there for justice but rather just to punish people who saw a person doing bad in a specific game, or for telling someone to stop being toxic in chat then letting them know you muted them.
Toxic players would just spam punish on Tribunal which is the reason I pushed for removal along with others and it finally got removed because it just didn't do it's job.