Toxicity in games is less to do with game design and more to do with players. There are occasions where emergent gameplay can lead to toxicity more frequently, but it is still ultimately on the players.
While it is undoubtedly the players that engage in it, i would argue that it is game design that is often at fault, players will do what they can do, sadly games with built in voice comms, particularly area based voice comms does encourage a certain type of behaviour if that game is a PVP game.
abusing unmoderated in-game features to accomplish the above
This is toxic behavior. When it remains unmoderated it becomes a toxic environment.
It's not really rocket science and it isn't isolated to PVP, but tends to been seen more in PVP due to poor sportsmanship and oversensitivity to things beyond player control.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
It used to mean people who threw temper tantrums and made the game less enjoyable. Ragers in LoL are the archetypal toxic gamer.
Now it's a meaningless buzzword that midwits throw out like "incel" or "alt-right" with no idea what they're talking about.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like incels and alt-right etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hillarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in some cases
Sounds to me a lot like people who try to shoehorn politics into every single conversation.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like SJW and snowflake etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hilarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in all cases
EDIT: Fixed it for you
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
It used to mean people who threw temper tantrums and made the game less enjoyable. Ragers in LoL are the archetypal toxic gamer.
Now it's a meaningless buzzword that midwits throw out like "incel" or "alt-right" with no idea what they're talking about.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like incels and alt-right etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hillarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in some cases
Sounds to me a lot like people who try to shoehorn politics into every single conversation.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like SJW and snowflake etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hilarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in all cases
EDIT: Fixed it for you
NPC is used most often to replace terms like SJW and Snowflake, because they say the same scripted statements that often defy facts/logic etc. its a MEME that is probably the most successful weapon in use today against Snowflakes and SJW's, they hate it
It used to mean people who threw temper tantrums and made the game less enjoyable. Ragers in LoL are the archetypal toxic gamer.
Now it's a meaningless buzzword that midwits throw out like "incel" or "alt-right" with no idea what they're talking about.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like incels and alt-right etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hillarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in some cases
Sounds to me a lot like people who try to shoehorn politics into every single conversation.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like SJW and snowflake etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hilarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in all cases
EDIT: Fixed it for you
NPC is used most often to replace terms like SJW and Snowflake, because they say the same scripted statements that often defy facts/logic etc. its a MEME that is probably the most successful weapon in use today against Snowflakes and SJW's, they hate it
NPC is used most often to replace terms like RWNJ and bigot, because they say the same scripted statements that often defy facts/logic etc. its a MEME that is probably the most successful weapon in use today against RWNJ's and bigots, they hate it
They also love the word "Triggered" but get "triggered" when they see Women, African Americans, lgbt, Inclusion, and Equality. They hate it. ;P
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I was thinking about something while wondering about this topic.
The concept of voluntary tyranny. There is this book called the "The Prefect" by Alastair Reynolds where to live in a habitat certain individuals who want a simpler life where their basic needs are taken care of in favour of them doing something for the people that rule over them, give up their rights totally except for a few voting rights. What ensues is a comical tragedy of sorts. Gradually it never ends well for the people who gave up their rights. They end up being hunted, tortured and killed and brought back to life since even death isn't an escape for the amusement of the sick tyranny. What constantly ran through my mind is how human beings are capable of inflicting such horribly innovative tortures and how could anyone have ever thought that this was a good idea.
Human beings need to have control and limits. Otherwise no system that started out even with the best of intentions will not end up becoming a version of hell on earth that we cheerfully construct at the expense of our fellow man where even in death there is no relief or dignity.
I think you know 'toxic' when you see it. There is no need to give examples or be polemic about it. We know it when we come face to face with it.
I was thinking about something while wondering about this topic.
The concept of voluntary tyranny. There is this book called the "The Prefect" by Alastair Reynolds where to live in a habitat certain individuals who want a simpler life where their basic needs are taken care of in favour of them doing something for the people that rule over them, give up their rights totally except for a few voting rights. What ensues is a comical tragedy of sorts. Gradually it never ends well for the people who gave up their rights. They end up being hunted, tortured and killed and brought back to life since even death isn't an escape for the amusement of the sick tyranny. What constantly ran through my mind is how human beings are capable of inflicting such horribly innovative tortures and how could anyone have ever thought that this was a good idea.
Human beings need to have control and limits. Otherwise no system that started out even with the best of intentions will not end up becoming a version of hell on earth that we cheerfully construct at the expense of our fellow man where even in death there is no dignity.
I think you know 'toxic' when you see it. There is no need to give examples or be polemic about it. We know it when we come face to face with it.
nice paradox
people who give they freedom are used like tools and treated worse then animals
but we need to remove freedom or they will do wathever they want without care.
toxic is a play word of a behavior of someone is doing some words on you then you don't like, most of the time is used on mobas, talking about people who rage a lot when they are not being carried by his others team mates, so he in his absolute wisdow try to belittle others to feel better about himself, most of time its fixed by who think someone is toxic is muting then, then the whole toxicity is over, but not, normally people who complain about other people being toxic, need to be toxic too and try to "punish" the other in some way, be by throwing the match or complaining about it to a moderator
in the end I find funny of people who complain about toxicity are normally toxic thenselfs, and if you call then on it you also become toxic
Pretty much when you cross the line in to personal... When you target someone with the sole intent of making them feel like shit. Then you are toxic.
There can be a fair amount of thrash-talk without it getting personal och antagonistic. But when the entire intent is to get to someone, then it is toxic. Now if you are a pro athlete (with a team behind you) the bar i pretty high. But if you are just your average gamer it is way lower. Because you do not have the advantage of a on-call therapist to help you sort out the abuse.
Now add to that the fact that most our prime insults have their roots in either racist, sexist or (if you are male) homophobic slurs and there is not really any good way to go.
Heck if anything we really need new proper insults.. =P
Ayway... It is pretty simple, if it goes personal it is toxic.
Playing AoC my friend played a Stygian assassin and one day some people came up to us and started calling him a Stygger. PVP game so we began kicking their asses and they had some friends hiding nearby of course and sent us to our graves. When we respawned they found us again and called me a stygger lover.
It was hilarious.
Just an example of what I don't consider toxic behavior
Toxic in a PvP game? Oh my! Just about everything except 'event' style PvP, if the game allows, encourages, or requires random open world killing of other players, then it contains 'toxic' behavior.
Toxic in a PvP game? Oh my! Just about everything except 'event' style PvP, if the game allows, encourages, or requires random open world killing of other players, then it contains 'toxic' behavior.
Exactly.
Nobody in entitled to invite themselves to a pvp game or server, then complain because pvp happened.
Same with naughty words. Every game has an ignore function.
But you see, the problem isn't "toxic" players at all.
The problem is the "angry cat lady" players that refuse to use the ignore feature or play pve games/server. They never let it go. They have to be right. They have to police and control others speech and behavior. It's why they are lonely, angry cat ladies. It's what they do.
Toxic in a PvP game? Oh my! Just about everything except 'event' style PvP, if the game allows, encourages, or requires random open world killing of other players, then it contains 'toxic' behavior.
Exactly.
Nobody in entitled to invite themselves to a pvp game or server, then complain because pvp happened.
Same with naughty words. Every game has an ignore function.
But you see, the problem isn't "toxic" players at all.
The problem is the "angry cat lady" players that refuse to use the ignore feature or play pve games/server. They never let it go. They have to be right. They have to police and control others speech and behavior. It's why they are lonely, angry cat ladies. It's what they do.
Actually, the problem is toxic players and the developers that pander to them. But you are right, if you play an explicitly PvP game or on an explicitly PvP server you have chosen to enter a toxic environment. Simply leave.
Oh, and using terms like "carebear" or "angry cat lady" just demonstrates your own toxicity.
Actually, the problem is toxic players and the developers that pander to them. But you are right, if you play an explicitly PvP game or on an explicitly PvP server you have chosen to enter a toxic environment. Simply leave.
Oh, and using terms like "carebear" or "angry cat lady" just demonstrates your own toxicity.
So does labeling other people as "toxic" just because you don't like their behavior or speech.
Not trying to be a jerk, but raise the question about why it's ok for one group to do it, but not the other. It's all hypocritical and solves nothing.
The solution is using the choices presented to us. Don't play pvp games if pvp hurts you (generally speaking) that much. Use the ignore feature if words hurt you (generally speaking) that much.
**Side note**
It's absolute crap that we have to provide disclaimers. Has our society become so frail?
Toxic: the repeated killing of a less skilled player. This is not PvP this is griefing, Taunting to the point of being a personal insult, intentionally ruining another players fun. Using unauthorized 3rd party software to enhance gameplay.
Toxic: joining a game where the intent is to kill other players in a digital world and then bitching and whining when you die. Calling hacks (aimbot, ESP, etc) at every loss (with no evidence), blaming your lack of skill (equipment, spells, weapons) on others.
NOT Toxic: Killing a new player and then moving on. Winning a duel or team battle, using superior knowledge of the arena (map, space, whatever) to ensure victory, positioning, shit talking, teamwork.
Play within the rules and be a good sport. Pretty simple.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Toxic: the repeated killing of a less skilled player. This is not PvP this is griefing,
Then call it griefing instead of using political buzzwords like,"toxic". That stupid term is too broad to define. It can mean anything.
If developers didn't put in a mechanic to disallow others from killing you, then it's working as intended. Play a different game.
However, if developers DO put in a mechanic that disallows killing other players X level below your own, or have to be flagged for pvp, then it's working as intended.
Actually, the problem is toxic players and the developers that pander to them. But you are right, if you play an explicitly PvP game or on an explicitly PvP server you have chosen to enter a toxic environment. Simply leave.
Oh, and using terms like "carebear" or "angry cat lady" just demonstrates your own toxicity.
So does labeling other people as "toxic" just because you don't like their behavior or speech.
Not trying to be a jerk, but raise the question about why it's ok for one group to do it, but not the other. It's all hypocritical and solves nothing.
The solution is using the choices presented to us. Don't play pvp games if pvp hurts you (generally speaking) that much. Use the ignore feature if words hurt you (generally speaking) that much.
**Side note**
It's absolute crap that we have to provide disclaimers. Has our society become so frail?
Oh come on! You are not really trying to run that dishonest line are you?
Firstly, toxic is the word that the OP provided us with, it is the topic of this thread. Secondly, by the general community standard operating out there at the moment 'toxic' is the right word, while 'angry cat lady' is just a gratuitous insult. If you are "not trying to be a jerk" then don't try and run a line that only a jerk would think was legitimate.
It used to mean people who threw temper tantrums and made the game less enjoyable. Ragers in LoL are the archetypal toxic gamer.
Now it's a meaningless buzzword that midwits throw out like "incel" or "alt-right" with no idea what they're talking about.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like incels and alt-right etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hillarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in some cases
Sounds to me a lot like people who try to shoehorn politics into every single conversation.
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like SJW and snowflake etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hilarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in all cases
EDIT: Fixed it for you
NPC is used most often to replace terms like SJW and Snowflake, because they say the same scripted statements that often defy facts/logic etc. its a MEME that is probably the most successful weapon in use today against Snowflakes and SJW's, they hate it
Because "Lock Her Up", "Fake News", "Get Woke, Go Broke" aren't scripted statements/words repeated by Brawndo drinkers.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I don't know if I'm alone in this, but my reaction to "toxic" pvp is pretty toxic. People like me provide a lot of motivation to the "toxic" people.
So many times in games I got ganked and spent the rest of my game time trying to get revenge, which rarely pans out and usually gives the ganker hours of entertainment. They can kill me 99 times, but as soon as I manage to come up with a strategy that kills them (like timing mass agro on me as I'm getting killed, popping smoke with vanish so he gets the agro, then killing him when he has a sliver of life) - I consider that a complete victory and win, log out with a smile and pretend I didn't get laughably owned for hours.
I remember the good nights like that a lot more than I do finally getting a raid boss down. God bless the toxic people and the good memories they provide us.
Comments
This is toxic behavior. When it remains unmoderated it becomes a toxic environment.
It's not really rocket science and it isn't isolated to PVP, but tends to been seen more in PVP due to poor sportsmanship and oversensitivity to things beyond player control.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And then it begins...
Probably how the term NPC came into being, users of terms like SJW and snowflake etc. came under the NPC term as a lot of their arguments/accusations seemed to be 'scripted', kind of hilarious though that gaming terminology could be used in that way, accurately in all cases
EDIT: Fixed it for you
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
They also love the word "Triggered" but get "triggered" when they see Women, African Americans, lgbt, Inclusion, and Equality. They hate it. ;P
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I see this as a perfect example of how divide and conquer works in a given polity.
The concept of voluntary tyranny. There is this book called the "The Prefect" by Alastair Reynolds where to live in a habitat certain individuals who want a simpler life where their basic needs are taken care of in favour of them doing something for the people that rule over them, give up their rights totally except for a few voting rights. What ensues is a comical tragedy of sorts. Gradually it never ends well for the people who gave up their rights. They end up being hunted, tortured and killed and brought back to life since even death isn't an escape for the amusement of the sick tyranny. What constantly ran through my mind is how human beings are capable of inflicting such horribly innovative tortures and how could anyone have ever thought that this was a good idea.
Human beings need to have control and limits. Otherwise no system that started out even with the best of intentions will not end up becoming a version of hell on earth that we cheerfully construct at the expense of our fellow man where even in death there is no relief or dignity.
I think you know 'toxic' when you see it. There is no need to give examples or be polemic about it. We know it when we come face to face with it.
But it's like Justice Potter Stewart once said about obscenity. I cannot define it, "but I know it when I see it.""
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Take each behaviour as it comes and make up your mind if you want it in PvP based on that.
There can be a fair amount of thrash-talk without it getting personal och antagonistic. But when the entire intent is to get to someone, then it is toxic. Now if you are a pro athlete (with a team behind you) the bar i pretty high. But if you are just your average gamer it is way lower. Because you do not have the advantage of a on-call therapist to help you sort out the abuse.
Now add to that the fact that most our prime insults have their roots in either racist, sexist or (if you are male) homophobic slurs and there is not really any good way to go.
Heck if anything we really need new proper insults.. =P
Ayway... It is pretty simple, if it goes personal it is toxic.
This have been a good conversation
Just about everything except 'event' style PvP, if the game allows, encourages, or requires random open world killing of other players, then it contains 'toxic' behavior.
Nobody in entitled to invite themselves to a pvp game or server, then complain because pvp happened.
Same with naughty words. Every game has an ignore function.
But you see, the problem isn't "toxic" players at all.
The problem is the "angry cat lady" players that refuse to use the ignore feature or play pve games/server. They never let it go. They have to be right. They have to police and control others speech and behavior. It's why they are lonely, angry cat ladies. It's what they do.
Oh, and using terms like "carebear" or "angry cat lady" just demonstrates your own toxicity.
Not trying to be a jerk, but raise the question about why it's ok for one group to do it, but not the other. It's all hypocritical and solves nothing.
The solution is using the choices presented to us. Don't play pvp games if pvp hurts you (generally speaking) that much. Use the ignore feature if words hurt you (generally speaking) that much.
**Side note**
It's absolute crap that we have to provide disclaimers. Has our society become so frail?
Toxic: joining a game where the intent is to kill other players in a digital world and then bitching and whining when you die. Calling hacks (aimbot, ESP, etc) at every loss (with no evidence), blaming your lack of skill (equipment, spells, weapons) on others.
NOT Toxic: Killing a new player and then moving on. Winning a duel or team battle, using superior knowledge of the arena (map, space, whatever) to ensure victory, positioning, shit talking, teamwork.
Play within the rules and be a good sport. Pretty simple.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If developers didn't put in a mechanic to disallow others from killing you, then it's working as intended. Play a different game.
However, if developers DO put in a mechanic that disallows killing other players X level below your own, or have to be flagged for pvp, then it's working as intended.
See?
Firstly, toxic is the word that the OP provided us with, it is the topic of this thread. Secondly, by the general community standard operating out there at the moment 'toxic' is the right word, while 'angry cat lady' is just a gratuitous insult. If you are "not trying to be a jerk" then don't try and run a line that only a jerk would think was legitimate.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So many times in games I got ganked and spent the rest of my game time trying to get revenge, which rarely pans out and usually gives the ganker hours of entertainment. They can kill me 99 times, but as soon as I manage to come up with a strategy that kills them (like timing mass agro on me as I'm getting killed, popping smoke with vanish so he gets the agro, then killing him when he has a sliver of life) - I consider that a complete victory and win, log out with a smile and pretend I didn't get laughably owned for hours.
I remember the good nights like that a lot more than I do finally getting a raid boss down. God bless the toxic people and the good memories they provide us.