Why is killing children in games taboo

Xasapis

If killing imaginary characters in imaginary settings makes us less aggressive, better to kill imaginary kids as well.

But that was not the point of this thread. In a sense it's a sign of the distorted society values, where having those truly disturbing finishing moves in Mortal Kombat considered acceptable, while viewing a nipple is not.

FlyByKnight

This is the type of f#$k sh!# folks want expressed in their RP entertainment? Murdering children, enslaving indigenous people, shooting "ninjas" with impunity etc.

Yeah... it's totally just a game thing. 

Westworld is thataway 

WarWitch

Why is killing children in RL ok? 

They are trying to pass a bill now In the USA to kill kids after they have been born. 

This is where it's legal to take a steel vacuum tube and put it inside the woman and tear the beating heart and head and limbs apart to fit inside the tube to suck it out of the woman.


Your question is interesting. Does it mean gaming devs are more responsible than our politicians?

Scot

The reason why you so rarely see children in any sort of multiplayer game with combat is that somebody will start asking stupid questions like this.

FlyByKnight

This thread should have never been born...

AlBQuirky

Arterius said:

I personally don't care if a game had killing kids as an option. I would never use said option but I wouldn't care if it was there in some crazy RPG. However, the question I have to ask is what kind of person thinks of this.

I have never sat around thinking, "Why don't video games allow me to kill children? That is something I am missing in the Witcher 3?"

I've often thought this when reading a book or watching a movie. Some of "things" writers "think up" are truly disturbing. How did they even get there?

"Realism" is a word thrown about quite a bit. Children die everyday in the real world. Sometimes even violently.

Terrorist groups use children specifically because there is no winning. Kill them and you're an evil bastard. Don't kill them and you're dead. Collateral damage is a thing. Blow up that building and wood/stone/bricks will fly. Children may die if present.

I've often wondered what happens to my range attack when I miss an attack. Does it keep going until it hits something? Not in any games I've played

Instead, and I fully understand this, games take the choice from players and need not worry about the "social backlash", which seems to rule our world these days. Look at the backlash for other "hot topic" social issues. I can't blame game makers in the least for this decision

It's easy to say, "It's just pixels." The reality is some players (like myself) can get disturbed by what's portrayed on our screens. It's not trouble separating reality from gaming, but rather a deep ingrained morality that many players have. Others aren't bothered at all. I've always believed that my personal morality should not be foisted onto everyone else, and vice versa. It would be nice if game makers left the choice to the players, but the anti-social loud ("Think as I do, or else...") criers won't let them.

As a parting thought, remember that old 70's movie Deathrace 2000 ? It was about running over people and the points depended on what they were, like a pregnant woman (2 lives) was worth more points than an old man (near death already).

In the year 2000, America is a totalitarian regime on the brink of collapse. The most popular sport in this dystopia is the Transcontinental Road Race, where teams earn points for logging the fastest time and for mowing over the most innocent pedestrians in the process.

There are lots of options in RPGs that I don't partake in. Killing children would be just another one. I can understand why game makers are basically "hands off" on the topic

Albatroes

Well, I'm a weeb so I tend to watch a lot of anime. The more recent anime, Goblin Slayer, did try and go this approach by slaughtering child goblins with the intent that goblins were born evil or even if they weren't they would eventually become evil out of revenge. When I saw that, it translated to me that most people regardless of entertainment medium, see children as something that can be shaped and is still formulating an identity, or at least that was what I was thinking when the main character would be killing them. It just brings up the whole 'nature' vs 'nurture' debate, but one has to keep in mind that most forms of entertainment have underlying points. To me, there's no underlying point I can think of in killing a child of any form. I think there was one horror movie that did kill a baby or something that was possessed but I forgot the name.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

AlBQuirky

parrotpholk said:

If you had a child then you would understand that on an emotional level it is disturbing.

Certain things that happened in movies and games used to not bother me but now it makes me ill to watch things where kids are being hurt or killed.  It is difficult to put into words but it is like a light switch flipped when we had our daughter.

I get the whole but we mass murder whole villages but trust me that when it comes to kids it is completely different on a certain level.

For most people that may be, but we still have awful parents. Some sell their children for a buck or two, some beat them regularly, and some even neglect their children. Having a child unfortunately does not "automatically instill" any sense of "goodness."

Vermillion_Raventhal

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

Vermillion_Raventhal

parrotpholk said:

AlBQuirky said:

parrotpholk said:

If you had a child then you would understand that on an emotional level it is disturbing.

Certain things that happened in movies and games used to not bother me but now it makes me ill to watch things where kids are being hurt or killed.  It is difficult to put into words but it is like a light switch flipped when we had our daughter.

I get the whole but we mass murder whole villages but trust me that when it comes to kids it is completely different on a certain level.

For most people that may be, but we still have awful parents. Some sell their children for a buck or two, some beat them regularly, and some even neglect their children. Having a child unfortunately does not "automatically instill" any sense of "goodness."

True but I am speaking under the assumption none of us are that.

You always have the evil in anything but that is the exception and not the rule.  No matter where or what time period you go to there are always twisted people.  You cannot take into account the extreme fringes as they are just that the extreme minority.

There are mothers who allow their children to be molested to keep a man. 

I git disturbed at kids being in prison forever at ages like age 13 when you see their drastic growth and maturing.  Always amazed at how people view of things can be so dramatically different. 

aummoid

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

AlBQuirky said:

parrotpholk said:

If you had a child then you would understand that on an emotional level it is disturbing.

Certain things that happened in movies and games used to not bother me but now it makes me ill to watch things where kids are being hurt or killed.  It is difficult to put into words but it is like a light switch flipped when we had our daughter.

I get the whole but we mass murder whole villages but trust me that when it comes to kids it is completely different on a certain level.

For most people that may be, but we still have awful parents. Some sell their children for a buck or two, some beat them regularly, and some even neglect their children. Having a child unfortunately does not "automatically instill" any sense of "goodness."

True but I am speaking under the assumption none of us are that.

You always have the evil in anything but that is the exception and not the rule.  No matter where or what time period you go to there are always twisted people.  You cannot take into account the extreme fringes as they are just that the extreme minority.

There are mothers who allow their children to be molested to keep a man. 

I git disturbed at kids being in prison forever at ages like age 13 when you see their drastic growth and maturing.  Always amazed at how people view of things can be so dramatically different. 

And when society at large finds out about those mothers and the men they're keeping, the parents go to jail and the kids are placed in some other environment where the hope is that they'll be safer.

So if you have a point here other than idle trolling to provoke offended responses, I'm not seeing it.

Asch126

Sometimes people say things that make you instantly realize that they are going to be serial killers in the future.

OP just confirmed to be he'll be one by asking why can't we murder defenseless children in videogames.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Asch126 said:

Sometimes people say things that make you instantly realize that they are going to be serial killers in the future.

OP just confirmed to be he'll be one by asking why can't we murder defenseless children in videogames.

If that's the cause I assume everyone who post here are hobo serial killers.  That is essentially what modern MMORPG are about. 

Vermillion_Raventhal

aummoid said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

AlBQuirky said:

parrotpholk said:

If you had a child then you would understand that on an emotional level it is disturbing.

Certain things that happened in movies and games used to not bother me but now it makes me ill to watch things where kids are being hurt or killed.  It is difficult to put into words but it is like a light switch flipped when we had our daughter.

I get the whole but we mass murder whole villages but trust me that when it comes to kids it is completely different on a certain level.

For most people that may be, but we still have awful parents. Some sell their children for a buck or two, some beat them regularly, and some even neglect their children. Having a child unfortunately does not "automatically instill" any sense of "goodness."

True but I am speaking under the assumption none of us are that.

You always have the evil in anything but that is the exception and not the rule.  No matter where or what time period you go to there are always twisted people.  You cannot take into account the extreme fringes as they are just that the extreme minority.

There are mothers who allow their children to be molested to keep a man. 

I git disturbed at kids being in prison forever at ages like age 13 when you see their drastic growth and maturing.  Always amazed at how people view of things can be so dramatically different. 

And when society at large finds out about those mothers and the men they're keeping, the parents go to jail and the kids are placed in some other environment where the hope is that they'll be safer.

So if you have a point here other than idle trolling to provoke offended responses, I'm not seeing it.

1. Not really the point... which was they exist and in larger numbers than most would want to admit.

2. It was side commentary.  My main post is there to read.  People are offended by everything so I just as well not post or are you being an idle troll?

WarEnsemble

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I have always wondered why killing children is taboo.  Not that it's something that I desire. 

Just a curiousity maybe from someone who thinks a little more binary. I mean a pixel is a pixel. I understand not wanting backlash but even games like GTA don't kill children even with the depravity that takes place in the game.

RPGs usually avoid having children altogether or make them unattackable/immortal or away from conflict. I mean children die in movies not even PG13  I mean you will have a whole village murdered but no kids in sight like Elder Scrolls games for example. 

The only exception is when the main character is a child or teen.  

When you grow up and have kids, you'll understand.

Sovrath

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

I don't think it's odd. Children are considered helpless and there is an imperative for most people to protect them.

Probably rubs most people the wrong way on a very deep visceral, societal level.

I wonder if game companies making children off limits could also be just to protect themselves from people who write and complain that there is "child killing" in a game.

Vermillion_Raventhal

WarEnsemble said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I have always wondered why killing children is taboo.  Not that it's something that I desire. 

Just a curiousity maybe from someone who thinks a little more binary. I mean a pixel is a pixel. I understand not wanting backlash but even games like GTA don't kill children even with the depravity that takes place in the game.

RPGs usually avoid having children altogether or make them unattackable/immortal or away from conflict. I mean children die in movies not even PG13  I mean you will have a whole village murdered but no kids in sight like Elder Scrolls games for example. 

The only exception is when the main character is a child or teen.  

When you grow up and have kids, you'll understand.

So you're telling me I no longer have to feed this 17 year old in my house because he's imaginary.  Thank you, this was therapeutic. 

Octagon7711

Perhaps it's all part of that supporting the continuation of human race unless you're screwing them over for profit thing.  It's also probably why you can't kill every NPC in town, it doesn't contribute to the storyline in most cases.  

Sovrath

parrotpholk said:

Sovrath said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

I don't think it's odd. Children are considered helpless and there is an imperative for most people to protect them.

Probably rubs most people the wrong way on a very deep visceral, societal level.

I wonder if game companies making children off limits could also be just to protect themselves from people who write and complain that there is "child killing" in a game.

I do not remember which COD game it was but remember the outrage over the airport incident.  Granted if I remember correctly that was shortly after 9/11 but still.

Imagine if a disturbed kid or adult plays a game and goes and shoots up a school in this political climate.  Nevermind the morality of it but just from a business perspective then it would put a company out of business. 

I am unsure as to why this is trivial to the OP but I out on the topic as I do not think there is much more one can say at this point.

I don't know if it is trivial to him.

The way I read his post is that "killing is bad yet there is killing in games so why are depictions of children spared if, again, all killing is bad."

The conclusion being "if killing is bad then we shouldn't have killing in games."

I'm not saying he is saying that but if one follows the logic one could come to that point.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Sovrath said:

parrotpholk said:

Sovrath said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

I don't think it's odd. Children are considered helpless and there is an imperative for most people to protect them.

Probably rubs most people the wrong way on a very deep visceral, societal level.

I wonder if game companies making children off limits could also be just to protect themselves from people who write and complain that there is "child killing" in a game.

I do not remember which COD game it was but remember the outrage over the airport incident.  Granted if I remember correctly that was shortly after 9/11 but still.

Imagine if a disturbed kid or adult plays a game and goes and shoots up a school in this political climate.  Nevermind the morality of it but just from a business perspective then it would put a company out of business. 

I am unsure as to why this is trivial to the OP but I out on the topic as I do not think there is much more one can say at this point.

I don't know if it is trivial to him.

The way I read his post is that "killing is bad yet there is killing in games so why are depictions of children spared if, again, all killing is bad."

The conclusion being "if killing is bad then we shouldn't have killing in games."

I'm not saying he is saying that but if one follows the logic one could come to that point.

Yes kind of what I am getting at.  It's also a case study of how we as people view morality.  Many players will do whatever a game tells them to do. There are some who will push the game to the limits they are allowed no matter how horrible.

This came about largely with game design issue of secession and inheritance.  If MMORPG players in a permanent death game had children in a PvP game should the children open to death as well.  Should the be included at all.  

Krimzin

Its the same reason you don't see many children zombies in TV/Movies. We were watching Resident Evil Apocalypse last night. You see a group of Zombie Children overwhelm a victim but not one violent act toward them. People don't want to see kids shot in the head, it does not make for good TV/Movie.

Sovrath

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Sovrath said:

parrotpholk said:

Sovrath said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

I don't think it's odd. Children are considered helpless and there is an imperative for most people to protect them.

Probably rubs most people the wrong way on a very deep visceral, societal level.

I wonder if game companies making children off limits could also be just to protect themselves from people who write and complain that there is "child killing" in a game.

I do not remember which COD game it was but remember the outrage over the airport incident.  Granted if I remember correctly that was shortly after 9/11 but still.

Imagine if a disturbed kid or adult plays a game and goes and shoots up a school in this political climate.  Nevermind the morality of it but just from a business perspective then it would put a company out of business. 

I am unsure as to why this is trivial to the OP but I out on the topic as I do not think there is much more one can say at this point.

I don't know if it is trivial to him.

The way I read his post is that "killing is bad yet there is killing in games so why are depictions of children spared if, again, all killing is bad."

The conclusion being "if killing is bad then we shouldn't have killing in games."

I'm not saying he is saying that but if one follows the logic one could come to that point.

Yes kind of what I am getting at.  It's also a case study of how we as people view morality.  Many players will do whatever a game tells them to do. There are some who will push the game to the limits they are allowed no matter how horrible.

This came about largely with game design issue of secession and inheritance.  If MMORPG players in a permanent death game had children in a PvP game should the children open to death as well.  Should the be included at all.  

I have no issues with "killing" in games because to me it's more about playing a role and having a part in a narrative.

There is small difference to me in watching Saving Private Ryan and playing in "Saving Private Ryan the video game" (if such a thing existed).

To me it's a story narrative.

Skyrim is one of my favorite games and when I play "good" characters they don't do the "evil" quests. But if I play an evil character they are usually very evil. I don't, however, download mods (or create a mod, it would be easy to do) where I can kill children just because that is just not important.

Darksworm

Sovrath said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

parrotpholk said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Lol sure I am sick.  Yet we are on forum based around a genre that is largely based around genocide for exp.  Basically we play murder hobos who do anything for money, loot and experience.

Weird points of morality by people do fascinate me.  Same people complain about abortion will be for an optional war where untold pregnant women, children and others are killed directly or indirectly. Some people will be against heinous criminals being put to death but support killing children in the womb. Exposed brains are more acceptable than exposed genitals.  

There is a reason child offenders are housed in different parts of a prison than the general population.  Even among the worst people children are still held as something that you absolutely do not fuck with.  I think this just goes with the idea that there are just lines which you do not cross.

Not going to get into politics here otherwise they will close an otherwise civil discussion as taboo as it may or may not be.

I can agree with that.  In real life that is.  I think entertainment where killing is afterthought it's odd that children are a taboo.

I don't think it's odd. Children are considered helpless and there is an imperative for most people to protect them.

Probably rubs most people the wrong way on a very deep visceral, societal level.

I wonder if game companies making children off limits could also be just to protect themselves from people who write and complain that there is "child killing" in a game.

This.  Also, it's pretty common to scapegoat games when people commit murder in the real world.  Anyone with a television or internet connection should be able to see this.

Just leave the child killing out, because trying to force "logic" (i.e. "It's just a game, though...") into these debates never works.  The loudest side wins.  We know what side that tends to be (the side that is best at making trending hashtags), and we definitely know how the press tends to lean to/support.

There is no way to counter arguments when children are being used to attack you.  Trying to do so just opens you up to being called heartless, awful, "Hitler."  No responsible company will go there, because it's just going to destroy their reputation - immediately.  It will be instant backlash.

All of the school shooting and gun violence/control debates will be brought up, and tied to your video game.  Who wants that?

It's pretty obvious why games simply don't do this...

Xasapis

Games have an international audience, US is currently just a portion of the overall population, while school shootings are almost an exclusive US phenomenon. Only stupid would try and connect gaming with school shootings.