ummm .. you are the one that put the monetary value on it , i just argued it as silly much like your Basketball analogy/the pixel Art anaolgy, and any other RL situtation you put out there.. And i assume you realize that by changing the rule set to cocentual PVP , its no longer an OWPVP game that we were discussing to start with ... More goal post moving
Just to clear something up.. those Pixels do have monetary value.
I'm playing legend of aria at the moment. It have fool loot pvp, but there are almost no gankers.
In order to gank people you have to become an outcast. But after you become an outcast you'll be marked as red. Which means all peaceful people can gank you without consequences...
In the end there are almost no gankers(at least on my server), because people don't want to pay the consequence to become an outlaw.
I'm playing legend of aria at the moment. It have fool loot pvp, but there are almost no gankers.
In order to gank people you have to become an outcast. But after you become an outcast you'll be marked as red. Which means all peaceful people can gank you without consequences...
In the end there are almost no gankers(at least on my server), because people don't want to pay the consequence to become an outlaw.
If the consequences are severe enough that almost no one does it then is there a point?
I'm playing legend of aria at the moment. It have fool loot pvp, but there are almost no gankers.
In order to gank people you have to become an outcast. But after you become an outcast you'll be marked as red. Which means all peaceful people can gank you without consequences...
In the end there are almost no gankers(at least on my server), because people don't want to pay the consequence to become an outlaw.
If the consequences are severe enough that almost no one does it then is there a point?
serious question, not being an ass.
LoA is not a very good game from the jump , many PvPers are playing other games , im also curious as to where he says ..." my server " if its a private server , its meaningless..
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
And you veered into these topics .. you veered into Monetary Value then you made a hard right into basketball rules , then you hit a bottleneck and went with pixel art , when that did not fly you introduced Concentual PvP into a OWPVP game as an answer , which is one of the siliest arguements ive ever seen on this site...
Go back and read thru the thread i just responded to each of these topics that YOU veered into
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
1. I don't have to backtrack because again you dragged it to something I wasn't talking about. Obviously if people use cash shops or subscriptions they put money into the game as well time. People generally don't want to waste money or lose their stuff. It's not hard to follow yet you went on your tangent.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
If the consequences are severe enough that almost no one does it then is there a point?
serious question, not being an ass.
I'm not sure how many other consequence it is to be a ganker in Legend of Aria. I believe guard also attack you in safe zone. You also can't use the resurrect stone in safe zone.
But you do have a point, there are just so few gankers because the penalty is a bit harsh. On the other hand if the penalty of being a ganker is to let other people know you are a ganker and can freely PK you. It is a bit fair game.
That being said, there are probably so few gankers because most people stay in safe zone. So gankers have a hard time finding people to gank.
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
1. I don't have to backtrack because again you dragged it to something I wasn't talking about. Obviously if people use cash shops or subscriptions they put money into the game as well time. People generally don't want to waste money or lose their stuff. It's not hard to follow yet you went on your tangent.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
Lol .. stopi t.. you veered into all these things , you brought the monetary value in , then you made a hard right into Basketball rules , when you hit that bottleneck you brought us to Pixel Art , then you drug us to one of the silliest arguemnets ive ever seen by introducing Concentual PvP as an answer to OWPVP ... wtf ...maybe read your own thread again ...The thread is about OWPVP with full loot please enlighten us tell us how concentual pvp(in any way shape or form) fits into that
I got RL stuff to attend to , now i need to find a way to apply my gaming rule sets to RL ..maybe i could hire a goblin minion to put the dog out for me
I'm playing legend of aria at the moment. It have fool loot pvp, but there are almost no gankers.
In order to gank people you have to become an outcast. But after you become an outcast you'll be marked as red. Which means all peaceful people can gank you without consequences...
In the end there are almost no gankers(at least on my server), because people don't want to pay the consequence to become an outlaw.
If the consequences are severe enough that almost no one does it then is there a point?
serious question, not being an ass.
Legit Answer.
Because a lot of time the PvP is supposed to enhance the game, adding in a means for players to resolve their conflicts with each other, adding a sense of risk, I think most developers look at the PvP as a means to augment the challenge, not an open invite to fill the game world with sociopaths that want to kill for the giggles of it..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
1. I don't have to backtrack because again you dragged it to something I wasn't talking about. Obviously if people use cash shops or subscriptions they put money into the game as well time. People generally don't want to waste money or lose their stuff. It's not hard to follow yet you went on your tangent.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
Lol .. stopi t.. you veered into all these things , you brought the monetary value in , then you made a hard right into Basketball rules , when you hit that bottleneck you brought us to Pixel Art , then you drug us to one of the silliest arguemnets ive ever seen by introducing Concentual PvP as an answer to OWPVP ... wtf ...maybe read your own thread again ...
I got RL stuff to attend to , now i need to find a way to apply my gaming rule sets to RL ..maybe i could hire a goblin minion to put the dog out for me
Yes because gaming has time and money spent on a game. Has nothing to do with monetary value you keep rambling about. Personal value and investment... say it with me.
You are just being obtuse because I seriously doubt you lack simple understanding of what personal investment into a hobby means. If you buy tools, classes and create something worthless to anyone else doesn't mean it doesn't have personal value to you.
I never said consentual PvP was a solution. It was an example how devleopers protect people's personal investments along with limited looting or lack of death penalty. Not hard to follow.
I brought up pixel art and time spent doing it having personal value of time spent. You compared it to the Mona Lisa which has nothing to do personal value. This again is response to you rambling about pixels.
I said games. All games have rules to get desired player behavior. Not real life chores. But it is clear your are just being obtuse. Personal value is the key word.
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
1. I don't have to backtrack because again you dragged it to something I wasn't talking about. Obviously if people use cash shops or subscriptions they put money into the game as well time. People generally don't want to waste money or lose their stuff. It's not hard to follow yet you went on your tangent.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
Lol .. stopi t.. you veered into all these things , you brought the monetary value in , then you made a hard right into Basketball rules , when you hit that bottleneck you brought us to Pixel Art , then you drug us to one of the silliest arguemnets ive ever seen by introducing Concentual PvP as an answer to OWPVP ... wtf ...maybe read your own thread again ...
I got RL stuff to attend to , now i need to find a way to apply my gaming rule sets to RL ..maybe i could hire a goblin minion to put the dog out for me
Yes because gaming has time and money spent on a game. Has nothing to do with monetary value you keep rambling about. Personal value and investment... say it with me.
You are just being obtuse because I seriously doubt you lack simple understanding of what personal investment into a hobby means. If you buy tools, classes and create something worthless to anyone else doesn't mean it doesn't have personal value to you.
I never said consentual PvP was a solution. It was an example how devleopers protect people's personal investments along with limited looting or lack of death penalty. Not hard to follow.
I brought up pixel art and time spent doing it having personal value of time spent. You compared it to the Mona Lisa which has nothing to do personal value. This again is response to you rambling about pixels.
I said games. All games have rules to get desired player behavior. Not real life chores. But it is clear your are just being obtuse. Personal value is the key word.
You really need to reread the thread a simple understanding of what you wrote would help ...
Now please point me to the OWPVP game that introduced concentual PVP to protect player investment
and again i did not put a monatary value on any of it at ll , actually quite the opposite, hence my ex of what a real investment in stocks ,,
Now if it helps the irony of it is , i believed in my hobby so much that in 2005 invested hundreds of thousand in Vivendi at 6 $ a share when they owned Blizz, then again in EA in 08 at 15 a share , and in FCMKF , SE , Nokia , AMD .. etc , i literally at this moment have millions invested in AAA and indie devs some whose games you play or are anticipating , i speak one on one with devs all the time ..
Thats what an investment is ... not spending .35 a day to play a game , that is no different than going to the movies , its money spent on a hobby , not an investment , that was my point , it has no value once its used just like that movie ticket
The most fun I've had with an MMO was Darkfall UW and I'm a PvE'r. I think inventory loot and armor taking a big hit on death, is the answer. I don't feel like going into the details but there was a reason to PvE and a reason to PvP occasionally (capture/defend player owned cities). Losing your home base was a big deal. Geography mattered, mob loot mattered, alliances mattered, sound mattered, sea battles and risk vs reward. The only change would have been to inventory loot, possibly lower the skill ceiling a tiny bit and armor big durability loss on death. There were also safe zones and tiered mob loot areas, with connected territory control improving loot.
Personal value. Doesn't matter what you think is an invest. Doesn't matter how much money you invest. It is what the person values.
Again you are looking at this as monetary value issue. Repeat after me personal value. Even if it includes money it is still about how the person values his time and money not how much he spends. Do you understand?
I brought up basketball to show how rules change player behavior. If you leave the bench during a fight you automatically get suspended in the NBA. Again this is about modifying player behavior. Severity of results nor real life vs. virtual matter. Same could apply to virtual basketball game. You again go left field with pixels and pixel vaginas and walking dogs.
Show me exactly said what you are saying. I am only entertaining this because I am bored while planning a trip.
ummm No again you brought the Monetary value in with this comment .. go
back and read the thread , i argued agaisnt that said it was silly with
my stock comment ..
"People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think
people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want
to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement."
you seem confused , And interesting that you now want to ignore the fact that you want to invoke concentual PVP and remove the OWPVP from the entire discussion , which makes everyhting you said moot
Again, time and money investment is about time and money spent playing the game. That is personal value to each player to their character and items. You brought in hard monetary value. I just replied even that wasn't right in art.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
Again ....YOU brought in monetary value hard or other wise ,,, , i argued that its silly ..
And ive actually had enough of watching you bactrack, dance and remove everything you argue by invoking concentual pvp into an OWPVP game along with the rest of the silly RL rules you want to apply like Basketball etc...
1. I don't have to backtrack because again you dragged it to something I wasn't talking about. Obviously if people use cash shops or subscriptions they put money into the game as well time. People generally don't want to waste money or lose their stuff. It's not hard to follow yet you went on your tangent.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
Lol .. stopi t.. you veered into all these things , you brought the monetary value in , then you made a hard right into Basketball rules , when you hit that bottleneck you brought us to Pixel Art , then you drug us to one of the silliest arguemnets ive ever seen by introducing Concentual PvP as an answer to OWPVP ... wtf ...maybe read your own thread again ...
I got RL stuff to attend to , now i need to find a way to apply my gaming rule sets to RL ..maybe i could hire a goblin minion to put the dog out for me
Yes because gaming has time and money spent on a game. Has nothing to do with monetary value you keep rambling about. Personal value and investment... say it with me.
You are just being obtuse because I seriously doubt you lack simple understanding of what personal investment into a hobby means. If you buy tools, classes and create something worthless to anyone else doesn't mean it doesn't have personal value to you.
I never said consentual PvP was a solution. It was an example how devleopers protect people's personal investments along with limited looting or lack of death penalty. Not hard to follow.
I brought up pixel art and time spent doing it having personal value of time spent. You compared it to the Mona Lisa which has nothing to do personal value. This again is response to you rambling about pixels.
I said games. All games have rules to get desired player behavior. Not real life chores. But it is clear your are just being obtuse. Personal value is the key word.
You really need to reread the thread a simple understanding of what you wrote would help ...
Now please point me to the OWPVP game that introduced concentual PVP to protect player investment
and again i did not put a monatary value on any of it at ll , actually quite the opposite, hence my ex of what a real investment in stocks ,,
Now if it helps the irony of it is , i believed in my hobby so much that in 2005 invested hundreds of thousand in Vivendi at 6 $ a share when they owned Blizz, then again in EA in 08 at 15 a share , and in FCMKF , SE , Nokia , AMD .. etc , i literally at this moment have millions invested in AAA and indie devs some whose games you play or are anticipating , i speak one on one with devs all the time ..
Thats what an investment is ... not spending .35 a day to play a game , that is no different than going to the movies , its money spent on a hobby , not an investment , that was my point , it has no value once its used just like that movie ticket
What you have listed is a type of investment, you have invested into a company. But that is not the only kind of investment.
There are many kinds of investments and many ways to invest yourself into something.
A simple example, I can invest time and money into my car, for example, and in return it serves me well.
Just like I can invest blood, sweat and tears, and huge chunk of my life, and money, and sanity, and a lot of other things I never thought I would, into my children, ensuring their future, and my ROI on that is far more a personal sense of seeing them become better.
Just like I can invest time and money into my War Hammer 40K figurines. I buy them, I paint them, and I have a nice 3500 point army of Chaos and 2000 point army of Tau. yes, that is still me investing into my hobby, I do not need to buy stock in Games Workshop to say I am investing into my hobby, and I don't take well to anyone playing with my mini's and even less f were to try and steal or break them.
So yes.. spending $0.35 a day is a type of investment, as they expect to a return for that $0.35 a day, mainly in the form of digital loot and game time.
Now if you talk to Devs all the time, and if you want ANY of the companies that you bought stock in, to not crash and burn.. you better tell them that they damn well better respect that player investment of $0.35 a day, if they want their game to survive.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
ikcin said: The risk of loss is part of the game, part of the fun, part of the entertainment - is'n it?
No it's not, and that is the whole point of this topic, why are Indie Game Companies making games that are neither fun or entertaining.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Always cracks me up when people start throwing out RL penalties and rules an apply them to a PVP game ...
Let me know when you can pull a Hobbit from your rectum , launch Firballs from your fingertips in RL while your Dragon pet attempts to hold aggro
They apply to human psychology. If you fight in basketball you are tossed even though it's a game.
The same concept applies to video games. Negative PvP actions that have no accountability will be done. Having fireballs or guns or hand to hand has little to no difference.
Let me tell ya , if someone is so upset by and protective of there fucking pixels there already broken and probably lost at RL as well ...
People are protecting their time and money investment. While I do think people are thin skinned it is not unfathomable that people don't want to waste hours to give someone else 5 seconds of amusement.
LOl , cmon man Time and Investment ... its a fucking game for Gods sake .. ..
The Time is negligible , they chose to play a game as there Hobby with there time .. If one thinks there would be wiser ways to Invest there time , Playing a game certainly is not a wise choice...
Buying 500k shares of a Stock is an investment that you would be wise to watch and protect , your pixels in a game are not an investment in any way ..
If a person is so overwhelming emotionally invested in there pixels that they become distressed by Pixel death they really need to get off the fucking PC and get there life togehter
If that were true the pat to win games wouldnt be the most popular options for most. Their excuse is always..."I have more money than time". So if spending TIME in the game isnt their 'enjoyment' what is? Getting the best loot and being a psycho more often than not.
Because its only a vocal minority that actually wants them, not only that but everyone has their own ideas on what a good full loot PVP game is, no surprise that there are so few actual successes, the only real 'success' is probably Eve Online and that comes with a ton of caveats.
Because many people want an immersive role-playing game, not these pseudo rpgs where dying doesn't matter.
So why do you play games with violence and weapons instead Sims? Immersive RPG with monsters and fights means a game where the risk is very high. I think you use the words role playing and immersive at a very deviant way.
Now bastard draw your sword, enough words! Ohh, you returned, I will kill you again! Ohhh, you returned by I'm punished because you refuse to defend yourself, so I have to leave. You win! And I even do not know why I attack you? - Immersive, indeed
You, the solo noobs are so pathetic. Safe and instanced are in fact the opposite of RP and immersive. Except if we are talking about some dress up and make up RPG.
Then you are right, in such a game the full loot has no place. Even the PvP, as your character could break its manicure.
role-playing games are about imagination, the same can be said about creating a role-playing game
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
Developers make full loot pvp MMOs because they dont want my money. *shrug*
If I play a MMO I am looking for a game that I can play for years and decades. No way I'd do that if there is no longterm incentive to work on your character, including the gear of your character. With full loot pvp the gear of the character cannot matter, i.e. needs to be easily replaceable. Thus MMOs with full loot pvp dont interest me at all.
Comments
In order to gank people you have to become an outcast. But after you become an outcast you'll be marked as red. Which means all peaceful people can gank you without consequences...
In the end there are almost no gankers(at least on my server), because people don't want to pay the consequence to become an outlaw.
serious question, not being an ass.
Again, those were things mentioned that are used to protect people's time and money investment in the game since you said there were no way to protect it. Not what I initially argued but what you veered into.
2. I brought up not just consentual pvp but limited looting and lack of death penalty that protect players personal investment in the game. Again not just concentual PvP like you are trying to cloud the subject. Again it's pretty clear unless you are being intentionally obtuse.
3. I brought up basketball to show how rules do effect how people behave in games. If you pay any attention to game design you realize games have rules to modify or limit player behavior, real life or video games.
But you do have a point, there are just so few gankers because the penalty is a bit harsh. On the other hand if the penalty of being a ganker is to let other people know you are a ganker and can freely PK you. It is a bit fair game.
That being said, there are probably so few gankers because most people stay in safe zone. So gankers have a hard time finding people to gank.
Because a lot of time the PvP is supposed to enhance the game, adding in a means for players to resolve their conflicts with each other, adding a sense of risk, I think most developers look at the PvP as a means to augment the challenge, not an open invite to fill the game world with sociopaths that want to kill for the giggles of it..
You are just being obtuse because I seriously doubt you lack simple understanding of what personal investment into a hobby means. If you buy tools, classes and create something worthless to anyone else doesn't mean it doesn't have personal value to you.
I never said consentual PvP was a solution. It was an example how devleopers protect people's personal investments along with limited looting or lack of death penalty. Not hard to follow.
I brought up pixel art and time spent doing it having personal value of time spent. You compared it to the Mona Lisa which has nothing to do personal value. This again is response to you rambling about pixels.
I said games. All games have rules to get desired player behavior. Not real life chores. But it is clear your are just being obtuse. Personal value is the key word.
Again you are looking at this as monetary value issue. Repeat after me personal value. Even if it includes money it is still about how the person values his time and money not how much he spends. Do you understand?
I brought up basketball to show how rules change player behavior. If you leave the bench during a fight you automatically get suspended in the NBA. Again this is about modifying player behavior. Severity of results nor real life vs. virtual matter. Same could apply to virtual basketball game. You again go left field with pixels and pixel vaginas and walking dogs.
Show me exactly said what you are saying. I am only entertaining this because I am bored while planning a trip.
There are many kinds of investments and many ways to invest yourself into something.
A simple example, I can invest time and money into my car, for example, and in return it serves me well.
Just like I can invest blood, sweat and tears, and huge chunk of my life, and money, and sanity, and a lot of other things I never thought I would, into my children, ensuring their future, and my ROI on that is far more a personal sense of seeing them become better.
Just like I can invest time and money into my War Hammer 40K figurines. I buy them, I paint them, and I have a nice 3500 point army of Chaos and 2000 point army of Tau. yes, that is still me investing into my hobby, I do not need to buy stock in Games Workshop to say I am investing into my hobby, and I don't take well to anyone playing with my mini's and even less f were to try and steal or break them.
So yes.. spending $0.35 a day is a type of investment, as they expect to a return for that $0.35 a day, mainly in the form of digital loot and game time.
Now if you talk to Devs all the time, and if you want ANY of the companies that you bought stock in, to not crash and burn.. you better tell them that they damn well better respect that player investment of $0.35 a day, if they want their game to survive.
And yes it is fun.
See Albion and Crowfall. (Crowfall is full loot towards whatever in your inventory, just not your gear)