I think of that high level necromancer coming into the newbie zones in EQ barking out, "1PP for each stack of skeleton bones!" as User Created Content.
The Costume Contests in City of Heroes was user created content. My Guild's foray into The Crossroads in WoW (and subsequent ass-beating) was user created Content.
SoE certainly had a view that player made content could address the issue of devs - nominally - not being able to make new (essentially pve) content fast enough. It was a key plank of Landmark - players being able to make and sell content. History now of course.
Going forward its something I could see Amazon taking forward. It fits with their basic business philosophy - think books, music, Alexa apps etc.
The biggest issue with created content from users is it removes the control of the experience from the development team. The world they spent years crafting and constructing works and exists based on certain defined parameters and logical corridors. Allowing user created content alters that and changes the rules and could change the way the world works. Very very risky to pull that off and introduces more room for game breaking bugs to occur.
I would imagine there are ways to limit the impact of modder content. For example if you have a CoH style mission generator and the new content could only be in these missions not the wider world. Also you could have a separate area of the game world where modders creations are introduced, if too many problems are found there, the mod goes no further into the wider gaming world.
I am not a game designer, I would suggest that the reason why there seems to be these issues is that so few gaming studios have seriously looked at this. If the professionals have hardly worked with such concepts no wonder it seems fraught with issues.
If you need to monitor the content at all then you'll be spending resources for quality control. Resources that could be better spent elsewhere . You could limit the possible outcomes to a point that doesn't need moderation, but you're probably not getting any real benefits from the work put into creating that possibility in the first place .
Creating a separate area for the system sounds like a test server. Those don’t really pan out the way you would think. Most players don’t mind checking out a test server once in a great while, but few actively test. If it’s not a test server and it’s meant to be a separate world until it’s approved then you can’t let players transfer characters or at least the stuff they do in the experimental are can’t be permanent in case if bugs or imbalances, just like a test server.
The biggest issue with created content from users is it removes the control of the experience from the development team. The world they spent years crafting and constructing works and exists based on certain defined parameters and logical corridors. Allowing user created content alters that and changes the rules and could change the way the world works. Very very risky to pull that off and introduces more room for game breaking bugs to occur.
I would imagine there are ways to limit the impact of modder content. For example if you have a CoH style mission generator and the new content could only be in these missions not the wider world. Also you could have a separate area of the game world where modders creations are introduced, if too many problems are found there, the mod goes no further into the wider gaming world.
I am not a game designer, I would suggest that the reason why there seems to be these issues is that so few gaming studios have seriously looked at this. If the professionals have hardly worked with such concepts no wonder it seems fraught with issues.
If you need to monitor the content at all then you'll be spending resources for quality control. Resources that could be better spent elsewhere . You could limit the possible outcomes to a point that doesn't need moderation, but you're probably not getting any real benefits from the work put into creating that possibility in the first place .
Creating a separate area for the system sounds like a test server. Those don’t really pan out the way you would think. Most players don’t mind checking out a test server once in a great while, but few actively test. If it’s not a test server and it’s meant to be a separate world until it’s approved then you can’t let players transfer characters or at least the stuff they do in the experimental are can’t be permanent in case if bugs or imbalances, just like a test server.
Well test servers are used in many MMOs, how about giving rewards for players to use the test server? Some shiny stuff and players will come. I have always wondered why there are not more incentives to play on test severs.
The biggest issue with created content from users is it removes the control of the experience from the development team. The world they spent years crafting and constructing works and exists based on certain defined parameters and logical corridors. Allowing user created content alters that and changes the rules and could change the way the world works. Very very risky to pull that off and introduces more room for game breaking bugs to occur.
I would imagine there are ways to limit the impact of modder content. For example if you have a CoH style mission generator and the new content could only be in these missions not the wider world. Also you could have a separate area of the game world where modders creations are introduced, if too many problems are found there, the mod goes no further into the wider gaming world.
I am not a game designer, I would suggest that the reason why there seems to be these issues is that so few gaming studios have seriously looked at this. If the professionals have hardly worked with such concepts no wonder it seems fraught with issues.
If you need to monitor the content at all then you'll be spending resources for quality control. Resources that could be better spent elsewhere . You could limit the possible outcomes to a point that doesn't need moderation, but you're probably not getting any real benefits from the work put into creating that possibility in the first place .
Creating a separate area for the system sounds like a test server. Those don’t really pan out the way you would think. Most players don’t mind checking out a test server once in a great while, but few actively test. If it’s not a test server and it’s meant to be a separate world until it’s approved then you can’t let players transfer characters or at least the stuff they do in the experimental are can’t be permanent in case if bugs or imbalances, just like a test server.
Well test servers are used in many MMOs, how about giving rewards for players to use the test server? Some shiny stuff and players will come. I have always wondered why there are not more incentives to play on test severs.
Coming up with ideas like providing rewards for it sounds good on paper, but in practice, it doesn't really change much. Plus, even if you did have a test server or test area for player created content, you would still need to send people to test it that worked for you to ensure that the material was in fact in line with the rest of the game and wasn't going to disrupt the economy pace of leveling.
Like others on here have mentioned, IMO the best player created content comes when players need to utilize each other and what they're given to achieve a goal. Like the COH costume contests, looking for bones or my favorite example from EQ; "Selling 3 bags at first Torch!"
In general any open world game is based on user made content, EVE, the PvP and trade in L2, anything sandbox is players made. Any competition and cooperation in the games is players made. Give to the players tools and goals, and they will make the game.
And I'm not talking about modes, or skins, players will make the game by playing it. This is the meaning of sandbox. Something most people here completely ignore.
I disagree with this somewhat. Some games have pvp, for instance Fallout 76 had open PvP, but most people choose not to do that and prefer co-operating with others.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
No, I think it's just the nature of following the path of least resistance. I enjoy the leveling in EQ, but got satisfaction when discovering power leveling and doing that from time to time. People also like to get ahead or feel they are not getting behind. So when something like this comes up they take advantage of it even if the disagree with it.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
No, I think it's just the nature of following the path of least resistance. I enjoy the leveling in EQ, but got satisfaction when discovering power leveling and doing that from time to time. People also like to get ahead or feel they are not getting behind. So when something like this comes up they take advantage of it even if the disagree with it.
People like the rewards of leveling. I have played RPGs where I went out to solve all the side quest and story. It was enjoyable.
MMORPG quest and grinding generally suck to the average person. They are just filler to be road blocks because they have no other reason for you to be playing. Hence why leveling has become easier and faster over the years. People like the gear and the powerup. Given the chance people skip the grind.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
No, I think it's just the nature of following the path of least resistance. I enjoy the leveling in EQ, but got satisfaction when discovering power leveling and doing that from time to time. People also like to get ahead or feel they are not getting behind. So when something like this comes up they take advantage of it even if the disagree with it.
People like the rewards of leveling. I have played RPGs where I went out to solve all the side quest and story. It was enjoyable.
MMORPG quest and grinding generally suck to the average person. They are just filler to be road blocks because they have no other reason for you to be playing. Hence why leveling has become easier and faster over the years. People like the gear and the powerup. Given the chance people skip the grind.
The trend for WoW and WoW clones where the entire goal is end game, but then I put that 100% on the developer for not making the entire process a journey.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Because players in general don't like the leveling process.
No, I think it's just the nature of following the path of least resistance. I enjoy the leveling in EQ, but got satisfaction when discovering power leveling and doing that from time to time. People also like to get ahead or feel they are not getting behind. So when something like this comes up they take advantage of it even if the disagree with it.
People like the rewards of leveling. I have played RPGs where I went out to solve all the side quest and story. It was enjoyable.
MMORPG quest and grinding generally suck to the average person. They are just filler to be road blocks because they have no other reason for you to be playing. Hence why leveling has become easier and faster over the years. People like the gear and the powerup. Given the chance people skip the grind.
The trend for WoW and WoW clones where the entire goal is end game, but then I put that 100% on the developer for not making the entire process a journey.
I think it is necessary though. If your game is purely based around themepark vertical progression alone there is nothing to fall back on. No matter how you repackage it will either be generic repetitive non effecting the world content or single player like phasing.
The biggest issue with created content from users is it removes the control of the experience from the development team. The world they spent years crafting and constructing works and exists based on certain defined parameters and logical corridors. Allowing user created content alters that and changes the rules and could change the way the world works. Very very risky to pull that off and introduces more room for game breaking bugs to occur.
I would imagine there are ways to limit the impact of modder content. For example if you have a CoH style mission generator and the new content could only be in these missions not the wider world. Also you could have a separate area of the game world where modders creations are introduced, if too many problems are found there, the mod goes no further into the wider gaming world.
I am not a game designer, I would suggest that the reason why there seems to be these issues is that so few gaming studios have seriously looked at this. If the professionals have hardly worked with such concepts no wonder it seems fraught with issues.
If you need to monitor the content at all then you'll be spending resources for quality control. Resources that could be better spent elsewhere . You could limit the possible outcomes to a point that doesn't need moderation, but you're probably not getting any real benefits from the work put into creating that possibility in the first place .
Creating a separate area for the system sounds like a test server. Those don’t really pan out the way you would think. Most players don’t mind checking out a test server once in a great while, but few actively test. If it’s not a test server and it’s meant to be a separate world until it’s approved then you can’t let players transfer characters or at least the stuff they do in the experimental are can’t be permanent in case if bugs or imbalances, just like a test server.
Well test servers are used in many MMOs, how about giving rewards for players to use the test server? Some shiny stuff and players will come. I have always wondered why there are not more incentives to play on test severs.
Coming up with ideas like providing rewards for it sounds good on paper, but in practice, it doesn't really change much. Plus, even if you did have a test server or test area for player created content, you would still need to send people to test it that worked for you to ensure that the material was in fact in line with the rest of the game and wasn't going to disrupt the economy pace of leveling.
Like others on here have mentioned, IMO the best player created content comes when players need to utilize each other and what they're given to achieve a goal. Like the COH costume contests, looking for bones or my favorite example from EQ; "Selling 3 bags at first Torch!"
Any reward incentive will find a certain playerbase segment willing to optimize, detracting from the real goal.
Player generated content needs to be for its own sake: for the love of the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Indeed, that is an excellent example how most players will not PvE if they could progress without that. Rationally we all choose the easiest way.
It's an excellent example of how people will try to get ahead. Has nothing to do with skipping PVE. You keep trying to spin shit to fit your narrow mind.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Indeed, that is an excellent example how most players will not PvE if they could progress without that. Rationally we all choose the easiest way.
It's an excellent example of how people will try to get ahead. Has nothing to do with skipping PVE. You keep trying to spin shit to fit your narrow mind.
He is right in a way. Using your content as a speed bump to advancement always leads players skipping content.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Indeed, that is an excellent example how most players will not PvE if they could progress without that. Rationally we all choose the easiest way.
It's an excellent example of how people will try to get ahead. Has nothing to do with skipping PVE. You keep trying to spin shit to fit your narrow mind.
He is right in a way. Using your content as a speed bump to advancement always leads players skipping content.
Nah you have to understand him. He's convinced everyone really just wants pvp hence "skipping pve". If skipping pve was the reason they wouldn't run end game.
I recall in City of Heroes when players made their own missions. They made monsters that gave huge experience which did not do any damage to players. It was insane how popular these missions were.
Indeed, that is an excellent example how most players will not PvE if they could progress without that. Rationally we all choose the easiest way.
It's an excellent example of how people will try to get ahead. Has nothing to do with skipping PVE. You keep trying to spin shit to fit your narrow mind.
He is right in a way. Using your content as a speed bump to advancement always leads players skipping content.
Nah you have to understand him. He's convinced everyone really just wants pvp hence "skipping pve". If skipping pve was the reason they wouldn't run end game.
No, you are the one who claims that players want to skip the PvP, so to PvE - the PvE servers. You are the one who claims there are PvP and PvE players. You are the one who claims the common opinion is the only truth, no matter how absurd is that. And in this case players do exactly the opposite you claim - they skip content to go faster to the so called end game.
As I claim there is not PvP and PvE players. Players just choose the easier way to progress. That is why they play on PvE servers. That is why they skip the content.
I never said everyone just wants to PvP. This is a nonsense. And you put it here, not me. I say most players like the competition. And this is pretty obvious too. Competitive sports are the most popular. Also I pointed many times that when the progression and the competition enters into a conflict most players choose the progression, as they believe they will compete when they are ready - which is not true in the most games.
Also there are people who do not go into the MMOs for the game, but for the VR. They want to live there or to RP following some story. And they have a problem with the competition too. And if you try to think you will see I'm right. But It seems I should not expect such an effort from you, and this is logical, as most people always take the easiest way.
Comments
Going forward its something I could see Amazon taking forward. It fits with their basic business philosophy - think books, music, Alexa apps etc.
Creating a separate area for the system sounds like a test server. Those don’t really pan out the way you would think. Most players don’t mind checking out a test server once in a great while, but few actively test. If it’s not a test server and it’s meant to be a separate world until it’s approved then you can’t let players transfer characters or at least the stuff they do in the experimental are can’t be permanent in case if bugs or imbalances, just like a test server.
Like others on here have mentioned, IMO the best player created content comes when players need to utilize each other and what they're given to achieve a goal. Like the COH costume contests, looking for bones or my favorite example from EQ; "Selling 3 bags at first Torch!"
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
MMORPG quest and grinding generally suck to the average person. They are just filler to be road blocks because they have no other reason for you to be playing. Hence why leveling has become easier and faster over the years. People like the gear and the powerup. Given the chance people skip the grind.
Player generated content needs to be for its own sake: for the love of the game.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance