Loot Box Bill (Proposed Law in US)

Superman0X

Here is the text of the proposed Anti Loot Box Bill:

https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/Loot-Box-Bill-Text.pdf

I am sure that there are lots of interesting parts. I am just looking through it myself at this time.

SBFord

Yep, it's officially been introduced to the US Senate.

https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/05/23/loot-box-bill-officially-introduced-to-us-senate

p4ttythep3rf3ct

I’m all for this. I just gave BDO a try with its Xbox release, the thing is a straight up gambling device wrapped in pretty clothes. Really thin clothes at that, the game itself I found subpar...if you are looking for a MMORPG, which, surprise surprise, I was. P2W is a cancer on the gaming industry. I’m all for micro transactions for things that don’t affect gameplay at all, like Fortnite does their cash shop right. Otherwise, it has not helped push games in the right direction IMO. 

Amathe

My proposed amendment to the definitional section of the Bill:

(9) NOOB. - the term "noob" means a clueless player who spends money wastefully on a Loot Box, as "loot box" is defined herein. "Noob" shall also refer to a newb, newbie, or noobstain.

Superman0X

I am reading though this with an eye for detail on some of the key definitions. Here is a shortened (less complicated) summary of the definition of Pay 2 Win.

Subs (payment for access to content) are specifically excluded as long as everyone pays the same amount for the same content. This might create some quirks with F2P games that have subs, and with subs that offer discounts for different time periods.

Pay 2 Win is defined as: (Any type of) Payment for things that gives (or helps with) goals, achievements, rewards, progression, or continued access to content. This is pretty broad, and they did a decent job of defining it in a way that is pretty all inclusive.

There are specific exclusions for (Increased) difficulty modes, cosmetic alterations and additional content. I see the increased difficulty mode as being easily exploitable, and the requirements for the additional content exemption being difficult to achieve (i.e. it can not give any advantage (see above) in the base game compared to those without it).

As all of these are mandated as illegal for any minor-oriented video game (which is extremely broad, and could include all games not specifically rated M, and even some of those) it seems that this bill is a bit premature, and a little rough to be actually voted on. It may be a good start for committee discussion, and a basis for an eventual law... but what they have right now seems to be pretty problematic.

P.S.

Having looked at the 'Loot Box' portion of the bill, it seems to only apply to paid loot boxes. It in no way prohibits unpaid lootboxes. It is just about selling via randomized output. It almost feels like the lootbox part is an afterthought.

JeffSpicoli

We are on the brink of war with Iran, The dems are still chasing some Russian collusion boogeyman  BULLSHIT that never existed, the Trumptards want a border fence and this guy is worried about video games....         (Not appropriate MMORPG content)

Gutlard

We all know that shit's going on. We come here to get away from politicians screwing everything up like usual.

This is THE place to care about gaming stuff right?

Cosmetics are okay, actual P2W in games is lame and ruins game play TO ME, so I don't like it.

Sure peeps want less regulation, and some peeps just don't want to be screwed over.

And I don't like regulation that has no enforcement, it's just a waste of time, so whatever happens  hope it's not all a waste of time/$$$.

Gut Out!

Amathe

I confess that my first thought when reading the post title was that some guy named Bill had a lot of loot boxes.

Scot

We have been talking about the need for change for so long, hopefully this goes through and other countries in the world wake up to what has happened.

Sal1

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

AlBQuirky

Gutlard said:

We all know that shit's going on. We come here to get away from politicians screwing everything up like usual.

This is THE place to care about gaming stuff right?

Cosmetics are okay, actual P2W in games is lame and ruins game play TO ME, so I don't like it.

Sure peeps want less regulation, and some peeps just don't want to be screwed over.

And I don't like regulation that has no enforcement, it's just a waste of time, so whatever happens  hope it's not all a waste of time/$$$.

Gut Out!

Enforcement is the key for me. A law is meaningless if it rarely (never) gets enforced, or has so many loopholes it has no teeth. We have too many toothless laws as it is

Superman0X

Scot said:

We have been talking about the need for change for so long, hopefully this goes through and other countries in the world wake up to what has happened.

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

If it passes (as is) it will make pretty much all online current games illegal (until they change business models).

Arterius said:

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

I actually think it will pass and for one big reason. Its not saying Loot Boxes can't exist. Its saying games targeted at children can't have them. It would be a big hit to publishers but what kids wouldn't get there hands on FIFA if say in 2021 it was rated "M"

It is odd, but the lootbox portion is almost an afterthought, and is something that could easily be gotten around.

MadFrenchie

Superman0X said:

Scot said:

We have been talking about the need for change for so long, hopefully this goes through and other countries in the world wake up to what has happened.

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

If it passes (as is) it will make pretty much all online current games illegal (until they change business models).

Arterius said:

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

I actually think it will pass and for one big reason. Its not saying Loot Boxes can't exist. Its saying games targeted at children can't have them. It would be a big hit to publishers but what kids wouldn't get there hands on FIFA if say in 2021 it was rated "M"

It is odd, but the lootbox portion is almost an afterthought, and is something that could easily be gotten around.

Unfortunately, Congress has proven time and again they don't understand e-commerce or tech at all.  Certainly not well enough to create effective legislation through their own, traditional think tanks or member committees.

Congress needs to get input from folks throughout the industry from both the consumer and producer's perspectives.  That is what would lead to some effective and properly scoped legislation.

AlBQuirky

Amathe said:

I confess that my first thought when reading the post title was that some guy named Bill had a lot of loot boxes.

Damn you! Now I can't read the thread title without reading it this way

Slapshot1188

Superman0X said:

Scot said:

We have been talking about the need for change for so long, hopefully this goes through and other countries in the world wake up to what has happened.

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

If it passes (as is) it will make pretty much all online current games illegal (until they change business models).

Arterius said:

Sal1 said:

I'll give my exact response in a similar post to this one. "It won't pass. Big business's and Corporations own the USA now. I wish it would pass though."

I actually think it will pass and for one big reason. Its not saying Loot Boxes can't exist. Its saying games targeted at children can't have them. It would be a big hit to publishers but what kids wouldn't get there hands on FIFA if say in 2021 it was rated "M"

It is odd, but the lootbox portion is almost an afterthought, and is something that could easily be gotten around.

Don’t worry.  Our two political parties haven’t been paid to take sides yet.  Soon we will have one pro-lootbox party and one against them. There is literally billions of dollars at stake here.  Plenty of cash to cut in the politicians and insure gridlock.

foppotee

Wasn't online poker sites under similar heat a few years ago & it eventually got regulated & now is legal in a few states?  I'm not sure if this bill will pass but I do think eventually a bill will pass regulating the non-transparent casino gambling in online games currently.  These games have now focused on making the gambling part of the games, even focused upon more than the actual game, & should be required to publish the odds accurately & then if someone still gambles & loses it is on them.  As it is currently there's no accountability.

Vrika

The definition of minor-oriented game is too unclear.

Lawmakers need to make laws so that companies can predict whether their future product falls under that law or not. That definition is so unclear that companies can't make the prediction.

JeffSpicoli

coretex666 said:

A new nickname for @BillMurphy.

"Loot Box Bill"

Sounds like a character from Red Dead Redemption 

Amathe

PonyBoyCurtis said:

coretex666 said:

A new nickname for @BillMurphy.

"Loot Box Bill"

Sounds like a character from Red Dead Redemption 

Or some other Western:

Snake River Rufus Jackson
Bad Bob
Buckshot Roberts
and Loot Box Bill

Vermillion_Raventhal

Amathe said:

PonyBoyCurtis said:

coretex666 said:

A new nickname for @BillMurphy.

"Loot Box Bill"

Sounds like a character from Red Dead Redemption 

Or some other Western:

Snake River Rufus Jackson
Bad Bob
Buckshot Roberts
and Loot Box Bill

Cash Shop Cassidy.

Amathe

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Amathe said:

PonyBoyCurtis said:

coretex666 said:

A new nickname for @BillMurphy.

"Loot Box Bill"

Sounds like a character from Red Dead Redemption 

Or some other Western:

Snake River Rufus Jackson
Bad Bob
Buckshot Roberts
and Loot Box Bill

Cash Shop Cassidy.

Pay to Win Patty

Vermillion_Raventhal

Vrika said:

The definition of minor-oriented game is too unclear.

Lawmakers need to make laws so that companies can predict whether their future product falls under that law or not. That definition is so unclear that companies can't make the prediction.

Just make them all M rating and G for gambling.