See the Kotaku article entitled "Shady Numbers and Bad Business: Inside the eSports Bubble", linked below:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/as-esports-grows-experts-fear-its-a-bubble-ready-to-po-1834982843/ampSome interesting quotes that put the reality of eSports into shocking perspective:
"NewZoo analyst Jurre Pannekeet, who sees the revenues for 14 esports teams, says the majority of teams are operating at a loss, but declined to say how much on average, citing nondisclosure agreements. When pressed whether that majority was closer to 51 percent or 90 percent of teams operating at a loss, he said: “If you looked into it, it’s probably closer to 89 percent than 50 percent.”"
"
Kotaku asked over a dozen esports professionals if they believe there is a path towards making money that is on par with the level of investment going into esports right now. Most of them said they really don’t know. “No one’s solved it yet,” said Daniel Herz, the chief revenue officer of Complexity Gaming . . . One Riot employee with knowledge of
League of Legends’ esports revenue, when asked whether the League Championship Series makes money, laughed. Its current goal, they said, is to prevent it from losing money indefinitely."
"Esports diehards spent $5.00 each last year on esports, according to NewZoo, with mid-level fans generally spending half of that. Compared to traditional sports fans, that’s paltry;
CNBCreported in 2017 that American fans spent an average of $710 per year attending traditional sporting events."
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Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You find out that viewership numbers, including the "as many people as watched the Super Bowl!" were all unverified and, it seems likely, counted folks who merely navigated past the tournament stream thumbnail on Twitch's homepage, or that those whose sessions restarted or who closed their browsers and then returned were counted twice.
In fact, Nielsen refuses to put out any reports on projecting future viewership or revenue because there simply isn't enough verifiable data to build such a report. Nielsen also agreed the numbers we do have seem inflated from their research.
The revenue from eSports is rarely differentiated by the game publishers from the game's general profits. That means even the eSports revenue being made is questionable, because it's impossible in many cases to know whether the dollar spent was just on the cash shop, or on sponsored team merchandise in said cash shop.
None of this looks good for the idea of eSports. Looks like maybe the success we've been hearing about has been more "successful in fooling folks" than "successful in building a new industry."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If the article is to be believed, even marketers are being duped into believing inflated numbers about the exposure eSports is giving them or other companies involved. I mean, Blizzard recently shut down HoTS eSports, so Blizzard might be wising up with the help of Nielsen's new eSports division.
If it wasn't big money why would we have big sports brands come in and buy teams, why would Mark Cubin even bother. In fact there is so much money in it, everyone is piling in like the wild west because there is no player regulations and securities in place yet. Once there is then it will start settling down. ESForce has their hands in a lot of teams with a lot of questionable ethics that wouldn't be possible in actual sports since it would be considered damn near match fixing.
Our industry is a young boom much like the dotcom boom. Everyone thought you needed money from the website members ie. subscriptions until they realized ads pay the bills. It's the same thing.
Kotaku has no business making an article on something they don't understand and Jason Lake is a questionable character, he's been in it for a long time but his motivations are not for the scene.
They also aren't ignoring sponsors. Sponsors want eyeballs on the tournaments. DuPont didn't sponsor Jeff Gordon because they wanted to make his car look pretty. And the article, which includes statements clearly consistent with their assertion from a dedicated Nielsen research group, submits that the viewership that's been touted isn't reliable. That's not good news for sponsors, and not good news for those receiving the sponsorships.
In fact, it seems likely based on the information included that the data we're hearing surrounding eSports is super inaccurate to the point of being a mere educated guess.
If you have an authority greater than Nielsen for the ratings research, or better than the multiple named and unnamed sources cited here, I'm all for hearing it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
$5 average over a full year for ONLY the most hardcore fans? You can't maintain a local bowling league with that kinda revenue per head.
There is going to be varying degree depending what esport as well, the overwatch league is a huge buy in and that buy in is not paying off expect to Blizzard. But others are alive and healthy by sponsorship alone. If this article was changed to name the Overwatch league, 100% truth. As an overall, it's ridiculous.
Further evidence can be found by looking at Activision Blizzard. They bought - Major League whatever (the oldest established e-sports organisation etc. etc.) but a) didn't pay a great deal ($40Mish?) b) which just about covered the $35-$40M debts the org had accrued over 20+ years.
So: "oldest established" organisation hadn't been able to make a go of it. And since then AB have announced cut-backs.
Do I like watching NBA basketball? Yes!
Do I like some eSports competitions. YES!
Would I pay to watch some playoff basketball? ABSOLUTELY.
Would I pay to watch some League Of Legends or CS:GO live? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
At it's core eSports is a marketing platform first. Don't expect teams and players to get anything more than a corporate logo slapped on their goofy ass team shirts and foreheads. There's gaming chairs, energy drink, and RGB rainbow lights that need to be sold.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They aren't talking about teams folding individually, that's not the point of the article at all. The entire industry is working around fudged numbers. These sponsors chose to buy in for exposure- if that exposure was overblown, the sponsors aren't going to feel great about that.
You've cited one, but provided no actual quote or link to quote from him stating why these folks and Nielsen is wrong and he's right.
Nobody is saying people aren't pouring money into eSports. They're saying that's the problem: these folks pouring money are not consumers, but investor's, and are doing it based on bad data.
1) Low ticket sales - A lot of the esports games is done on Twitch streams with online matches, the bigger tournaments are done in an arena and ticket sales are done but it is not like anything in sports where ticket sales is every week while the season goes on.
2) No live tv - The closest we had was Turner sports and ESPN, nothing on live national television like traditional sports.
3) No pay-per-view - Highly sought after matches are not monetized in this way.
4) Team Merchandise - Most teams have merchandise but not all and they are also not sold opening only just a few tournament holder sites or the team's site itself.
5) Very low VIP features - there is a few sites/leagues that offer VIP features but they are not and it is not realized yet.
6) No seasons - There is no "season" of the sport and there is a variety of leagues, organizations of rules and not one common entity like the "NFL".
7) No "We" the Team - Team members change rapidly so there is no "Team" favorite much like you'd have your favorite sports team. It is more normal to say, player X is my favorite player and he might have played on 5 different teams that year. It's player driven and not organization driven. The lack of team sales is because of this alone.
8) Player poaching rapid - Teams can and will change rosters monthly, there is no rules on player poaching like all traditional sports.
This is a few things that differ greatly, until they monetize esports with more of what traditional sports offer there is no viewership metrics to go by other than "how many are watching" since everything is free to view and team loyalty is low due to it being player/star driven.
I just want to set the record right, ya they are grabbing numbers, but the numbers don't constitute what is actually going on.