Also don't forget that in Classic you have to do class quests at various points to unlock class features such as the Druid's various shapeshifting forms and the Shaman's totems, or the paladin's rez spell etc.. Plus Shaman and Paladin are faction locked, so you can only be a paladin if you're Alliance and you can only be a Shaman if you're Horde.
One aspect I haven't seen anyone address other than AV is PvP. One of the great things about WoW back in 2005 if you played on a PvP server was World PvP. Alliance and Horde would constantly take over areas such as Tarren Mill or Duskwood and massive battles would rage to take them back. Also, there was no "flagging" system that you could toggle on or off like there is now if you were on a pvp server. There were safe areas and contested areas. If you were leveling in a contested area, you could attack or be attacked by the opposing faction at any time. You really had to keep your head on a swivel. Similarly, if you traveled into a safe zone controlled by the opposing faction, they could attack you but you couldn't attack them until they struck first. It made for fun times.
I have been in the Classic beta for the past week and I honestly feel that WoW was a better game back in 2005 than it is in 2019. It won't be for everyone, but I'm glad to finally have the opportunity to play a version of the game that I loved since it unfortunately slowly grew into a different game. No one is going to be forced to play on a Classic server, but we will finally have the option to now. I think this will bring a lot of people back to WoW.
I played the later version a little. I didn't follow the game so I'm not familiar with what the "Classic" version was. Can anyone fill me in on the basic differences?
Its Vanilla World Of Warcraft. It will be like it was or very close to like it was back in 2005. It will not be a fast paced fast food style MMORPG like we have today. Things will take time and will need to be earned.
Thanks, but that doesn't help me. How was it different? What made it... not fast food?
It's just fast food for people without jobs. It's kind of like a survival game, for you the player. To see if your interest in the game can survive past all of the obvious time sinks that a large number of people seem to think is "depth". The game did have a lot more depth in many of the systems than the current version, which I think they should bring back, but it had a lot more flaws that it had depth. People talk about how hard it was, and how the game was awesome because of it. Then they make their second character and twink the F out of them because in actuality it was a pain in the buttocks.
Classic WoW is like rewinding your girlfriend back to when she was 16.....except now you are 45 and the whole thing is frankly quite disturbing
Ugh more like reliving a happier time from your past, when mmos werent a total money grabs without soul, immersion or community. When you wanted to log in to play a game, rather then needed to login to do daily world quest on a timer or weekly pvp cap.
Paladins will miss being able to play anything dealing with Melee. Again another point I was trying to make as well. Many of those old concepts from back then, people today wont like. A Paladin being only a Healer, and the worst healer of the 4 healers. Priest>=Druid >Shaman > Paladin.
What? Paladins are easily one of the best healers in the game. Druid is, by far, the worst.
In Vanilla WoW this is not true. Paladins were known as a healer back then because they lacked the tools to do anything else. No class could tank besides Warrior, and nobody outside of friends brought a Pally for DPS, and Healers was needed so it was only thing a Pally was brought for besides the Blessings. Both Priests and Druid from Blizzards own words were primary healers. Shaman and Paladins were secondary hybrids. Shamans had more healing tools than Paladins. I dont know what game you were playing but it wasnt Vanilla WoW. Priest >>> Paladin. Druid >>> Paladin. Heavy armor mean nothing for a healer who shouldn't be hit in the first place....
WoW Classic is considered "hardcore". Strange days indeed.
It was much harder back then. Less than 5% of players beat endgame content..... also 40man raids.... yeah nothing like current era. I dont play WoW anymore but doubt they have that now days.
I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
I know of just such a game, perfect for you in fact, it's called "Chess."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
I know of just such a game, perfect for you in fact, it's called "Chess."
That's a 2 player game. And it has "End Game." lol
Part of the figuring things out is some of the quest you get can be soloed, but you have strategize your approach to getting done. And some you just need another player to get it done. I remember and early warlock one where you had to take down an npc, but they also had 2 other npcs there and if you didn't strategize right you would be doing a corpse run and trying again.
I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
It was both. Again only few people ever touched the final endgame content despite what people in this forum been saying over the years about how Easy it was. ... still more grindy as well.
How was the Warlock back in vanilla days? Back in the early days I only played Paladin and Mage back in 2004 and only got into Warlocks much later in WoTLK and then it became my favorite and most played.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.) "
The quests in Vanilla WoW were more difficult and took a bit more "figuring out" in some regard. The wording of the quests would be more vague such as "Look southwest of x lake" and you're trying to find a chest or something. Back then quest items weren't highlighted, weren't shown on the mini-map, and didn't sparkle so they blended in with the environment. You could easily walk a large area without locating the quest objective. Also, there was more strategy required. Mages had to use polymorph and rogues had to sap enemies for crowd control. Without using these mechanics you could easily pull a group of enemies that would wipe your party.
Another mechanic that I enjoyed was the weapon skill system. Every weapon had a weapon skill associated with it. Classes had a wider range of weapons that they could use (compared to the current retail version) and started off being proficient in a few weapons. You had to visit a "Weapon Master" to train in other weapons. Each weapon skill started at 1 and the more you used the weapon, the higher your skill became. At the lower levels you would actually miss attacks a lot until you improved your weapon skill. Mages could also buff your intelligence to make you learn quicker.
There were a lot of mechanics like this that were scrapped at some point in the game's history. It is nice to be able to experience them again.
WoW Classic is an opportunity for Blizzard to make money.
Holly fudge the level of deduction that was put in this one is astaonding, how do you do it!
Its all about selling something that people want to buy, or as some have called it, 'listening to the players'. Which now that BfA has failed spectacularly, Blizzard had a lot of impetus to do.
I want a harder game because you have to figure things out. Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well. I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
That really depends on yourself.
There are "guides galore" out there (especially for a 15 year old game) that can tell you step by step how to do what you want to do.
WoW does have the question marks above questgivers' heads, so thinking in that area is null.
In "Classic WoW", I am assuming that they are going back to when noobies were not so powerful, so the combat difficulty is much different than today's WoW. I recall how difficult it was trying to help the lady in the Human starting area get her pumpkins for her bag reward. Bags were not as easily gotten in classic WoW.
I just recall that WoW was fun for me until about the cataclysm expansion. Then my Guild dissolved as they implemented "diversity requirements" for the best guild benefits. I was in an all Druid guild (Ninja Kitties) at the time and it was a blast! We all had alts to play with, but we had a separate guild for them.
I also enjoyed what someone mentioned earlier, the class quests. Instead of Hunters automatically getting their pets, they had a quest that explained how to tame them. Instead of Druids automatically getting their different forms (cat, bear, walrus, moonkin), there was a quest for each form. Some Mage spells had quests to learn them. I miss those quests because they were fun and enlightening.
Combat was more difficult, at least for me. A few of the class quests I had trouble soloing (pre-guild times) and had to ask for help.
Classic WoW still has the problem of questing while grouping, where some players have already done the quest and don't want others to actually read.
Another thing was weapon usage. You had to actually use the weapons to get the skill for them. Fight with 2-Handers until you maxed out that weapon, then switch to 1-Handers to max that out.
Basically, classic WoW was more enjoyable because everything was not "automatically learned" at the appropriate level.
That was my experience. I'm sure others' will vary
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
How was the Warlock back in vanilla days? Back in the early days I only played Paladin and Mage back in 2004 and only got into Warlocks much later in WoTLK and then it became my favorite and most played.
How to describe them? A pet class combined with dots? Imps being the typical pet - for dps and you kiting (not quite an EQ1 druid but); or voidwalker to tank plus dots (not quite an EQ1 mage or illusionist).
Also: Corruption back then wasn't a dot though but a "delayed bomb". Huge damage but a delay of something like 20s. I remember being in a group doing Scarlet Monastery (I think) and a cleric asking (ranting) why I had just cast corruption on a boss they had just cast sheep on - they calmed down when I pointed out that it didn't break Sheep (or whatever Sheep was called). From memory the delay before it went off was slightly longer than the duration of Sheep. Sheep wore off, corruption exploded and boss was on half health. ; and then it would go off and take out c. 50% of the boss's hp.
And then there were soul shards. Not a problem ordinarily but for raids - Molten Core needed lots - you had to spend a while beforehand (like 20 minutes) farming them. Saved us in one of the first (ever not beta) Onyxia raids though - but not Molten Core - even though we had all the servers max level 'locks!
Have to try and remember how it played in e.g. Scholomance - I largely have memories of vivid green though!
If you stop and think about it though the "clamour" for classic WoW has existed for years - and was not just ignored by Blizzard but actively dismissed.
So what has changed? As @Phry says BfA seems to be another expansion that "underperformed". It sold - clearly - but then people left. And Blizzard is seeking a return to the gravy train that was millions of subscribers every month and not simply a short term blip every 2 years.
"The content is much harder than the retail of today"
It wasn't harder, it was just slower. Took longer to kill mobs, more xp to level up, gold wasn't as available and things like mounts and leveling cost a lot more, reps were grindier and no daily quests to help out. Everything just took longer to do.
You just contradicted yourself. It was slower because it was harder.
Classic WoW is like rewinding your girlfriend back to when she was 16.....except now you are 45 and the whole thing is frankly quite disturbing
I'm not sure how can possible apply a perverted analogy to a video game. Cant watch an old good movie either because its like going out with an under-aged girl? Wtf?
I would have preferred them to have attempted a hybrid version myself, a sort of Classic plus, keeping content that expanded gameplay area. But who knows that may be next on the cards. After all new regions do not necessarily come with new rulesets.
But that's just a possible future for now here is hoping classic takes off, and as all the other classic servers have in other MMORPG's I see no reason this one will not too.
I'm thinking you are right. It's inevitable that a lot of newer features will be missed once players start playing it.
I see this: "as players progress, we’ll introduce more content like Alterac Valley, the Ahn’Qiraj War Effort and Naxxramas."
MMOExposed, is that the AV you are talking about?
Yes. Old AV is a must for me. To do all that grinding again to be competitive, I must have my old AV fetish satisfied. That was a straight up classic. Being scared of NPCs while watching my faction from enemy faction player army was a great feeling. Choke point and all. If they release that version of AV from the patch before TBC, I cant cosign that because it killed Old AV to make Arena the new main PvP. So we will see which version of AV they go with.
If Korrack is missing from AV in Classic, I'll be extremely disappointed with the AV aspect.
Comments
One aspect I haven't seen anyone address other than AV is PvP. One of the great things about WoW back in 2005 if you played on a PvP server was World PvP. Alliance and Horde would constantly take over areas such as Tarren Mill or Duskwood and massive battles would rage to take them back. Also, there was no "flagging" system that you could toggle on or off like there is now if you were on a pvp server. There were safe areas and contested areas. If you were leveling in a contested area, you could attack or be attacked by the opposing faction at any time. You really had to keep your head on a swivel. Similarly, if you traveled into a safe zone controlled by the opposing faction, they could attack you but you couldn't attack them until they struck first. It made for fun times.
I have been in the Classic beta for the past week and I honestly feel that WoW was a better game back in 2005 than it is in 2019. It won't be for everyone, but I'm glad to finally have the opportunity to play a version of the game that I loved since it unfortunately slowly grew into a different game. No one is going to be forced to play on a Classic server, but we will finally have the option to now. I think this will bring a lot of people back to WoW.
It's kind of like a survival game, for you the player. To see if your interest in the game can survive past all of the obvious time sinks that a large number of people seem to think is "depth". The game did have a lot more depth in many of the systems than the current version, which I think they should bring back, but it had a lot more flaws that it had depth. People talk about how hard it was, and how the game was awesome because of it. Then they make their second character and twink the F out of them because in actuality it was a pain in the buttocks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
even if they recreate WoW Classic, the community isn't the same anymore.
So What Now?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Not because it takes more XP or you do less damage or can't heal as well.
I don't want the numbers game, I want a thinking game.
(I'm not sure where WoW Classic would fit in this.)
Once upon a time....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lol
Once upon a time....
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The quests in Vanilla WoW were more difficult and took a bit more "figuring out" in some regard. The wording of the quests would be more vague such as "Look southwest of x lake" and you're trying to find a chest or something. Back then quest items weren't highlighted, weren't shown on the mini-map, and didn't sparkle so they blended in with the environment. You could easily walk a large area without locating the quest objective. Also, there was more strategy required. Mages had to use polymorph and rogues had to sap enemies for crowd control. Without using these mechanics you could easily pull a group of enemies that would wipe your party.
Another mechanic that I enjoyed was the weapon skill system. Every weapon had a weapon skill associated with it. Classes had a wider range of weapons that they could use (compared to the current retail version) and started off being proficient in a few weapons. You had to visit a "Weapon Master" to train in other weapons. Each weapon skill started at 1 and the more you used the weapon, the higher your skill became. At the lower levels you would actually miss attacks a lot until you improved your weapon skill. Mages could also buff your intelligence to make you learn quicker.
There were a lot of mechanics like this that were scrapped at some point in the game's history. It is nice to be able to experience them again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~
There are "guides galore" out there (especially for a 15 year old game) that can tell you step by step how to do what you want to do.
WoW does have the question marks above questgivers' heads, so thinking in that area is null.
In "Classic WoW", I am assuming that they are going back to when noobies were not so powerful, so the combat difficulty is much different than today's WoW. I recall how difficult it was trying to help the lady in the Human starting area get her pumpkins for her bag reward. Bags were not as easily gotten in classic WoW.
I just recall that WoW was fun for me until about the cataclysm expansion. Then my Guild dissolved as they implemented "diversity requirements" for the best guild benefits. I was in an all Druid guild (Ninja Kitties) at the time and it was a blast! We all had alts to play with, but we had a separate guild for them.
I also enjoyed what someone mentioned earlier, the class quests. Instead of Hunters automatically getting their pets, they had a quest that explained how to tame them. Instead of Druids automatically getting their different forms (cat, bear, walrus, moonkin), there was a quest for each form. Some Mage spells had quests to learn them. I miss those quests because they were fun and enlightening.
Combat was more difficult, at least for me. A few of the class quests I had trouble soloing (pre-guild times) and had to ask for help.
Classic WoW still has the problem of questing while grouping, where some players have already done the quest and don't want others to actually read.
Another thing was weapon usage. You had to actually use the weapons to get the skill for them. Fight with 2-Handers until you maxed out that weapon, then switch to 1-Handers to max that out.
Basically, classic WoW was more enjoyable because everything was not "automatically learned" at the appropriate level.
That was my experience. I'm sure others' will vary
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Also:
Corruption back then wasn't a dot though but a "delayed bomb". Huge damage but a delay of something like 20s. I remember being in a group doing Scarlet Monastery (I think) and a cleric asking (ranting) why I had just cast corruption on a boss they had just cast sheep on - they calmed down when I pointed out that it didn't break Sheep (or whatever Sheep was called). From memory the delay before it went off was slightly longer than the duration of Sheep. Sheep wore off, corruption exploded and boss was on half health. ; and then it would go off and take out c. 50% of the boss's hp.
And then there were soul shards. Not a problem ordinarily but for raids - Molten Core needed lots - you had to spend a while beforehand (like 20 minutes) farming them. Saved us in one of the first (ever not beta) Onyxia raids though - but not Molten Core - even though we had all the servers max level 'locks!
Have to try and remember how it played in e.g. Scholomance - I largely have memories of vivid green though!
If you stop and think about it though the "clamour" for classic WoW has existed for years - and was not just ignored by Blizzard but actively dismissed.
So what has changed? As @Phry says BfA seems to be another expansion that "underperformed". It sold - clearly - but then people left. And Blizzard is seeking a return to the gravy train that was millions of subscribers every month and not simply a short term blip every 2 years.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee