Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
pvp in mmorpg's is a joke... i have never liked it, always lacks balance...
those pvp inclined should stick to games where power balance is much easier achieved... your fps shooters etc...
Any game that doesn't have identical sides will never be perfectly balanced. That would also be extremely boring. Still player skill can still overcome that unbalance.
I have a feeling you are one of those people that will always blame game balance when you lose.
Regardless, the game mostly revolves around big fights like sieges where politics/tactics will come into play supposedly. Either way, as long as I come out of it with a cool story I dont mind losing.
Ok I looked it up. You dont delevel but you get exp debt. The more exp debt you have the greater the detriment to your character. That probably means stats lowered and such. Pretty much sounds like the same thing as a delevel to me.
Played another game like that and it worked as you describe here and it was super exploitable. Had some fun times going super deep red named and selling deaths to blue named pvpers.....
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
pvp in mmorpg's is a joke... i have never liked it, always lacks balance...
those pvp inclined should stick to games where power balance is much easier achieved... your fps shooters etc...
Any game that doesn't have identical sides will never be perfectly balanced. That would also be extremely boring. Still player skill can still overcome that unbalance.
I have a feeling you are one of those people that will always blame game balance when you lose.
Regardless, the game mostly revolves around big fights like sieges where politics/tactics will come into play supposedly. Either way, as long as I come out of it with a cool story I dont mind losing.
I think you are totally reaching when you say he blames game balance when he loses, however as you say no game can every be truly balanced.
He is right about FPS, it is so much easier to do there. When I originally began MMOs I thought PvP had no place in what to me was a online role playing game. But then I played DAOC and I saw how MMORPG's could be a much better game with PvE and PvP. So since then I have always advocated both are in MMOs, but some do it better than others. I don't follow MMOs well enough to have a grip on what AoC intends to do and it going to be years until it launches so they could change how they do it by then.
However there is a couple of basic principles I realised yonks ago, any benefit from PvP should be separate from PvE, mainly this is about equipment, PvE gear should give you nothing in PvP and visa versa. Secondly if there is more than one way of doing PvP you have to be very careful about the time/risk and reward ratio. Players will work out what pays of the best and only do that form of PvP. So you either have to only have one way of doing PvP or do an incredible juggling act to keep all the methods of PvP relevant.
pvp in mmorpg's is a joke... i have never liked it, always lacks balance...
In an MMORPG that takes the RPG part seriously there can be no 1:1 balance because being dependent on others is essential for this genre. And exactly THAT is what makes it so appealing for many. This "social element" (i.e. playing as a group) is such a strong motivator that it has found its way into other genres as well, e.g. MOBAs.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
pvp in mmorpg's is a joke... i have never liked it, always lacks balance...
those pvp inclined should stick to games where power balance is much easier achieved... your fps shooters etc...
You're not alone in feeling that way. There have been countless posts in this forum over the years from people like you that have never gotten that there is supposed to be a difference between shooters / BRs and MMORPG PvP.
Shooters / BRs: even playing field start with disposable, one battleground gear. Very suitable for solo play.
MMORPG PvP: uneven playing field with levels and long-lasting gear and upgrades. Meant for group play.
Good individual balance in 1 is pretty well automatic and built into the game. Good individual balance in 2 is spotty and never, ever achieved.
People who whine about balance in 2 are just letting us know that they are players who play 1 and don't know what to do with themselves when they try their hand at 2. Some clue in eventually. Some never do.
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
PVE players need to realize that PVP is nothing more than fighting additional mobs that don't have limited aggro ranges... behave erratically... and more often than not, work together in groups.
PVPers seek out adventure just like PVErs do. The content is no more gated for them than it is for you. If you play like a wounded animal, don't expect nature to be kind. Head out with your friends with players on the look out for potential attacks around every corner. If you can learn not to stand in fire... you can learn not to be a victim.
It's not much different than learning a raid strategy... only the strategy is ever evolving. An MMO without PVP is a single player game... because that is exactly how it gets played... solo. An MMO with PVP is a multi-player game... because you can't have PVP without opponents.
Change the way you play games instead of being the square peg trying to force itself into the round hole. All the content you want and more is awaiting you. YOU only need to learn to play the game the right way.
PvE players don't "need" to realize in accordance with your perspective.
PvPers don't seek out the adventures strictly PvE players do. They seek conflict with other players or the potential for it. PvE players do not. PvPers are less dependent on the release of content as conflict with other players isn't dependent on it.
One need not play as an animal, wounded or not. One need not play with fire if they prefer not to be burnt.
Raid strategies do not involve direct conflict with other players, so are quite unlike group PvP strategies. Not a lot of players raid solo I expect. One need not solo in PvE otherwise. That is entirely a matter of choice.
People should play the games they want as they want, while knowing choosing one contrary to their personal preferences will likely prove unpleasant.
The only right way to play for any particular person is how they choose to play, not whatever others declare to be so.
There are so many self-entitled PVE comments in this thread it is hilarious. Especially the OP.
I am entitled to play what I want, as I want... so long as I can afford the game in question. Those that feel they can direct the conduct of others are the ones seeking more entitlement than is their due.
What I'm not entitled to is the expectation a game I play will change according to my preferences. I must deal with what it is and play despite the features of it I dislike if the elements I do enjoy outweigh them.
There are so many self-entitled PVE comments in this thread it is hilarious. Especially the OP.
Maybe just maybe we should trust what the developers are trying to do instead of making assumptions... especially to those that guarantee the demise of a game because it may or may not have PVP
In all honesty, I am just sick of the PVE vs PVP with every single MMO.
But this comment right here speaks volume to the kind of person you are. Sounds like you want easy-mode.
If I were to play, I'll be cheating the system..... I'll bunny hop servers until I'm on the winning side.
Why will I cheat ?......I want PvE content.
After all who want's to walk in on the loosing side and stay with it, definitely not the PvE player and thats me.
This is a pvp game. The whole PVE selling point is ridiculous. That is like saying LoL?DOTA are pve games, because there are npc monsters to kill during a match. If the 'pve' is inside an area that allows pvp, you are still playing pvp.
Imo it is another lame excuse of a MMORPG. PVP is the easiest to setup, because it doesn't require a lot of content.
This is a pvp game. The whole PVE selling point is ridiculous. That is like saying LoL?DOTA are pve games, because there are npc monsters to kill during a match. If the 'pve' is inside an area that allows pvp, you are still playing pvp.
Imo it is another lame excuse of a MMORPG. PVP is the easiest to setup, because it doesn't require a lot of content.
Bro, what? Are you comparing WoW PvP servers to DOTA then? Its gonna have dungeons and raids, the same as any other PvE game. Its not a "match". PvP MMOs are closer to a true role playing immersive experience.
The concept of MMOs was initially supposed to be an immersive world you could "live" in. Not just an interface for you to join coop dungeons with 5 other players that you have probably run 100 times before. You might have to actually socialize with people instead of joining queues to run dungeons that have probably long become way too easy for you to roll some dice for the loot box off the end boss.
If you don't like PvP in your MMO, fine, just stick to WoW or FF. Dont come here making shit up.
pvp in mmorpg's is a joke... i have never liked it, always lacks balance...
those pvp inclined should stick to games where power balance is much easier achieved... your fps shooters etc...
You're not alone in feeling that way. There have been countless posts in this forum over the years from people like you that have never gotten that there is supposed to be a difference between shooters / BRs and MMORPG PvP.
Shooters / BRs: even playing field start with disposable, one battleground gear. Very suitable for solo play.
MMORPG PvP: uneven playing field with levels and long-lasting gear and upgrades. Meant for group play.
Good individual balance in 1 is pretty well automatic and built into the game. Good individual balance in 2 is spotty and never, ever achieved.
People who whine about balance in 2 are just letting us know that they are players who play 1 and don't know what to do with themselves when they try their hand at 2. Some clue in eventually. Some never do.
Don't you dare bring rationality and logic to the conversation now!
I had this argument with my firends about how EVE doesn't have real PvP because size matters after all. Imagine if they "balanced" EVE and turned into a fair world instead of a brutal one. No one would play that.
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"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The PvE part of a game like this is not ridiculous. It is the pretense for the PvP. One of the greatest PvP MMORPGs of all time, Lineage 1, was all about PvPvE. Players did PvE for xp leveling, gear, and because it added an enjoyable content element. Much of the PvE was challenging so encouraged cooperation. The PvP was also challenging so encouraged cooperation. People grouped together for safety. It was a nice hybrid mixture.
That said, I feel like I've lost interest in MMO PvP. Progression based PvP is just bleh to me. If I'm going to play a competitive game I want to play something with a level playing field where the player skill matters most, not how long I've grinded.
I recall when Lineage 1 US opened they had PVE servers which I played on for most of my time. The only PVP was in castle sieges on those servers.
I did try the normal FFA PVP servers but didn't have a crew and it wasn't very fun trying to go it alone so I didn't stay around long.
I still prefer the split design of DAOC, ESO and others where I can work on progressing my character in peace then jump over to the PVP on my terms once I feel I am ready.
One thing I would like to see which no game has offered is a FFA PVP server or world where players could copy their characters from normal RVR worlds over to, fully geared and leveled up, which would better balance the starting playing field.
Just like ESO does with Cyrodil, there could be different versions like with CP or no CP, or under level 50 also.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One thing I would like to see which no game has offered is a FFA PVP server or world where players could copy their characters from normal RVR worlds over to, fully geared and leveled up, which would better balance the starting playing field.
Not judging... but isn't that pretty much what their Ashes Apocalypse Battle Arena game was supposed to be? I mean, if you take all character progression (horizontal, vertical, gear...) out of your MMORPG then you really have a Battle Arena type game. Then it just becomes a matter of persistence vs time definite matches.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
One thing I would like to see which no game has offered is a FFA PVP server or world where players could copy their characters from normal RVR worlds over to, fully geared and leveled up, which would better balance the starting playing field.
Not judging... but isn't that pretty much what their Ashes Apocalypse Battle Arena game was supposed to be? I mean, if you take all character progression (horizontal, vertical, gear...) out of your MMORPG then you really have a Battle Arena type game. Then it just becomes a matter of persistence vs time definite matches.
Not really the same. In ESO you can hit level 50, CP160 rather quickly and still have years of content to play through including obtaining better gear, skill points and CP abilities.
I would prefer to spread the PVP out around the world, much as the red servers on DAOC without asking players to serve as helpless gank bait until they can grind up to max level first.
Just gives people a chance at a more level playing field before jumping into the fray.
Cyrodil is a bit limited and boring to me in terms of progression content.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If AoC actually releases in this lifetime, then I'll try it. If it doesn't prove to be fun then so be it. Who knows - perhaps the corruption system will work to thin out griefers. I don't mind a nonconsensual 1-on-1 but the reflexes no longer exist to survive the 3-on-1 or 5-on-1 encounters. That reminds me of solo farming dungeons in UO and encountering the guild known as the "Lag Reduction Squad". 5 kids with ISDN against one player on dial-up ... not pretty. I'll keep an open mind lest I be labeled a Jaded Old Fart.
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those pvp inclined should stick to games where power balance is much easier achieved... your fps shooters etc...
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a feeling you are one of those people that will always blame game balance when you lose.
Regardless, the game mostly revolves around big fights like sieges where politics/tactics will come into play supposedly. Either way, as long as I come out of it with a cool story I dont mind losing.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
He is right about FPS, it is so much easier to do there. When I originally began MMOs I thought PvP had no place in what to me was a online role playing game. But then I played DAOC and I saw how MMORPG's could be a much better game with PvE and PvP. So since then I have always advocated both are in MMOs, but some do it better than others. I don't follow MMOs well enough to have a grip on what AoC intends to do and it going to be years until it launches so they could change how they do it by then.
However there is a couple of basic principles I realised yonks ago, any benefit from PvP should be separate from PvE, mainly this is about equipment, PvE gear should give you nothing in PvP and visa versa. Secondly if there is more than one way of doing PvP you have to be very careful about the time/risk and reward ratio. Players will work out what pays of the best and only do that form of PvP. So you either have to only have one way of doing PvP or do an incredible juggling act to keep all the methods of PvP relevant.
In an MMORPG that takes the RPG part seriously there can be no 1:1 balance because being dependent on others is essential for this genre. And exactly THAT is what makes it so appealing for many. This "social element" (i.e. playing as a group) is such a strong motivator that it has found its way into other genres as well, e.g. MOBAs.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Good individual balance in 1 is pretty well automatic and built into the game. Good individual balance in 2 is spotty and never, ever achieved.
People who whine about balance in 2 are just letting us know that they are players who play 1 and don't know what to do with themselves when they try their hand at 2. Some clue in eventually. Some never do.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
PvE players don't "need" to realize in accordance with your perspective.
PvPers don't seek out the adventures strictly PvE players do. They seek conflict with other players or the potential for it. PvE players do not. PvPers are less dependent on the release of content as conflict with other players isn't dependent on it.
One need not play as an animal, wounded or not. One need not play with fire if they prefer not to be burnt.
Raid strategies do not involve direct conflict with other players, so are quite unlike group PvP strategies. Not a lot of players raid solo I expect. One need not solo in PvE otherwise. That is entirely a matter of choice.
People should play the games they want as they want, while knowing choosing one contrary to their personal preferences will likely prove unpleasant.
The only right way to play for any particular person is how they choose to play, not whatever others declare to be so.
I am entitled to play what I want, as I want... so long as I can afford the game in question. Those that feel they can direct the conduct of others are the ones seeking more entitlement than is their due.
What I'm not entitled to is the expectation a game I play will change according to my preferences. I must deal with what it is and play despite the features of it I dislike if the elements I do enjoy outweigh them.
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Beyond the shadows there's always light
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Beyond the shadows there's always light
The concept of MMOs was initially supposed to be an immersive world you could "live" in. Not just an interface for you to join coop dungeons with 5 other players that you have probably run 100 times before. You might have to actually socialize with people instead of joining queues to run dungeons that have probably long become way too easy for you to roll some dice for the loot box off the end boss.
If you don't like PvP in your MMO, fine, just stick to WoW or FF. Dont come here making shit up.
I had this argument with my firends about how EVE doesn't have real PvP because size matters after all. Imagine if they "balanced" EVE and turned into a fair world instead of a brutal one. No one would play that.
I did try the normal FFA PVP servers but didn't have a crew and it wasn't very fun trying to go it alone so I didn't stay around long.
I still prefer the split design of DAOC, ESO and others where I can work on progressing my character in peace then jump over to the PVP on my terms once I feel I am ready.
One thing I would like to see which no game has offered is a FFA PVP server or world where players could copy their characters from normal RVR worlds over to, fully geared and leveled up, which would better balance the starting playing field.
Just like ESO does with Cyrodil, there could be different versions like with CP or no CP, or under level 50 also.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would prefer to spread the PVP out around the world, much as the red servers on DAOC without asking players to serve as helpless gank bait until they can grind up to max level first.
Just gives people a chance at a more level playing field before jumping into the fray.
Cyrodil is a bit limited and boring to me in terms of progression content.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon