Apex Legends producer calls players a bunch of stuff that is probably true

Tiller

The original title is was better and much funnier.

Apex Legends producer calls players 'ass-hats' and 'dicks' in heated Reddit thread

Seriously though, when have players ever been nice to game developers? Unless you go as far back as  pre-mainstream internet days (early 90's), I can't think of one point where gamers weren't toxic demanding asshats towards developers. Even in the early 2000's toxicity was there, just in chat rooms and forums. The trust seems to be gone on both sides of the coin. Drew McCoy does ask a good question, how do we get back there? Time machine perhaps, cause it's never coming back.

https://www.pcgamer.com/apex-legends-producer-calls-players-ass-hats-and-dicks-in-heated-reddit-thread/

ChildoftheShadows

He’s not wrong. 

Tiller

You could always go the route of Double Damage and make fun of these trolls.

Caffynated

Tiller said:

You could always go the route of Double Damage and make fun of these trolls.

Most of those criticisms sound perfectly legitimate. Maybe if they actually listened to them, their games wouldn't suck. 

ChildoftheShadows

Caffynated said:

Tiller said:

You could always go the route of Double Damage and make fun of these trolls.

Most of those criticisms sound perfectly legitimate. Maybe if they actually listened to them, their games wouldn't suck. 

Ah but are they legitimate? I see raving reviews for the game. I wager not since those were Steam reviews... 

Caffynated

ChildoftheShadows said:

Caffynated said:

Tiller said:

You could always go the route of Double Damage and make fun of these trolls.

Most of those criticisms sound perfectly legitimate. Maybe if they actually listened to them, their games wouldn't suck. 

Ah but are they legitimate? I see raving reviews for the game. I wager not since those were Steam reviews... 

The internet is full of 10/10 reviews for awful games. 

For me, it was overly simplistic, quickly became repetitive and had some of the worst controls I've seen in a space sim, despite being 2d and not having to account for 3d movement controls. Whatever positives there might have been weren't worth fighting through the garbage to find. 

Tiller

Caffynated said:

Tiller said:

You could always go the route of Double Damage and make fun of these trolls.

Most of those criticisms sound perfectly legitimate. Maybe if they actually listened to them, their games wouldn't suck. 

  Not sure who or what you think they aren't listening too? trolls? This game was actually developed from the pitch to EA for a sandbox Star Wars space game, which EA turned down because BF2, so they made Rebel Galaxy Outlaw instead. Mostly what will drive this game in the future will be the modding community.

ChildoftheShadows

I do find it funny when people complain about auto targeting in a space sim. Aiming would most definitely be done via computer.  

Tiller

ChildoftheShadows said:

I do find it funny when people complain about auto targeting in a space sim. Aiming would most definitely be done via computer.  

Yeah, funny part is they are only assists, and you can turn them off for full control if you want. It's like complaining about training wheels because they exist for someone, when you could easily choose not to use them. These same folks complained about broadside combat in the first game, then when they got full control, they complain about that lol.

Sabrac

It's a pity that has come to this point. I partly agree with the developer that things have gotten worse over the years and yeah consumers can act very toxic sometimes and sucks that they have to go through that toxicity and often harassment.

But in this particular case, IMO the devs dropped the ball. While nothing justifies some of the terrible treatment they got from a segment of the community, the devs didn't make themselves any favors with some of the comments I saw on their subreddit and their complete lack of self-awareness of their actions regarding these monetization tactics and their obvious attempt to target the "whales" in their player base.

At first, I thought it was an EA mandate, that forced them to use this tactic but after seeing their replies, I'm not quite sure anymore, dammit Respawn...

A good middle ground from all of this situation would be:

Psychos1s

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

Xasapis

Psychos1s said:

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

I highlighted the part that I think is unfair in terms of attitude. When you sneak alcohol into the drink of an alcoholic battling to quit, you can't blame him for complaining about it. When you turn your game's cash shop into a slot machine, why are you surprised that people with gambling problems will find issues with it?

kitarad

Why doesn't anyone exercise any restraint? Don't buy no, is it that hard not to buy?

Psychos1s

Xasapis said:

Psychos1s said:

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

I highlighted the part that I think is unfair in terms of attitude. When you sneak alcohol into the drink of an alcoholic battling to quit, you can't blame him for complaining about it. When you turn your game's cash shop into a slot machine, why are you surprised that people with gambling problems will find issues with it?

Bad analogy, the alcoholic doesn't know the drink has been spiked, these lot know exactly what's there and still choose to place themselves in that position. That would be similar to an alcoholic battling to quit deciding to go and sit in a pub during a mates stag party. In which case I wouldn't have any sympathy either.

Psychos1s

Rhoklaw said:

Psychos1s said:

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

LOL, I just watched a video of Asmon opening 232 boxes. The odds of purple epics was 25% and I think he got like 20-30 purples, so that was definitely off. The yellow legendaries have a 7% chance and he probably got about 20 of those, so that was fairly close. Regardless of knowing your loot chances, that doesn't change the bottom line. It's still gambling.

Yeah it is, I never said it wasn't. It's a shitty practice but if muppets keep throwing cash at companies they'll continue to do it. The only thing I've bought from the store is the battle pass, cost me a tenner and if you level it, it gives you enough coins to buy the next pass. The skins look nice but there's only 2 I like and with the mechanics and pricing there's no way I'm daft enough to drop cash on it.

Xasapis

Psychos1s said:

Xasapis said:

Psychos1s said:

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

I highlighted the part that I think is unfair in terms of attitude. When you sneak alcohol into the drink of an alcoholic battling to quit, you can't blame him for complaining about it. When you turn your game's cash shop into a slot machine, why are you surprised that people with gambling problems will find issues with it?

Bad analogy, the alcoholic doesn't know the drink has been spiked, these lot know exactly what's there and still choose to place themselves in that position. That would be similar to an alcoholic battling to quit deciding to go and sit in a pub during a mates stag party. In which case I wouldn't have any sympathy either.

Do they?
Haven't the developers completely changed how the cash shop worked in Apex by introducing the slot machine items in season 2?

TheDarkrayne

He might be right but he's just given them more ammo. Should have kept his cool.

Psychos1s

Xasapis said:

Psychos1s said:

Xasapis said:

Psychos1s said:

Rhoklaw said:

Put's in a lootbox that costs $200 and they didn't expect to get this much heat? Do they not pay attention to the news? ffs.

Correction... they put in event items that would require $200 worth of lootboxes to unlock everything. Not sure what that means, but Lootboxes have been on the firepit for MONTHS! I'm calling out the developers for being blatantly ignorant retards.

So there's 24 event items, each lootbox will contain one item, you get two free lootboxes for completing a couple of missions. Leaves you with 22 items left to get, there's also a bonus heirloom item for one of the characters. To get the bonus item you need all 24 items unlocked, then you have to spend cash to unlock the bonus item.

On top of this, the standard lootboxes in game usually cost 100 in-game credits which works out to about $1 / €1. These new lootboxes cost 700 credits per box. Now all this shit is cosmetic so there's no P2W but yeah still a bit on the steep side of pricing.

As always there's people having a meltdown on the sub Reddit, the best are the people with gambling problems wailing that they're being targeted instead of doing the unthinkable and taking responsibility for their actions.

The project lead could definitely have handled it better and the pricing is a joke, that's why I won't be buying anything off the store, if more people did the same maybe devs wouldn't keep pulling the same shit.

I highlighted the part that I think is unfair in terms of attitude. When you sneak alcohol into the drink of an alcoholic battling to quit, you can't blame him for complaining about it. When you turn your game's cash shop into a slot machine, why are you surprised that people with gambling problems will find issues with it?

Bad analogy, the alcoholic doesn't know the drink has been spiked, these lot know exactly what's there and still choose to place themselves in that position. That would be similar to an alcoholic battling to quit deciding to go and sit in a pub during a mates stag party. In which case I wouldn't have any sympathy either.

Do they?
Haven't the developers completely changed how the cash shop worked in Apex by introducing the slot machine items in season 2?

Nah lootboxes have been in from the start.

Akulas

Well players are ass-hats and dicks. It'll just make them more so now.

Annwyn

Have gamers become more toxic towards devs? Sure, they totally have. The problem is that the devs labor under the impression that this is not their fault and that they did nothing wrong, but a huge part of the community's discontent is due to a number of factors :

Disclaimer: This list is not specific to Apex.

- Developers are releasing unfinished/broken products that they will "fix" later.

- Some games are released at full-price AND include microtransactions. This behavior is becoming increasingly more common in single-player games.

- Players are being charged more and more for virtual items. A single cosmetic item can cost $20 US, a 1/3rd of the cost for a full priced game.
- Some companies are now also releasing games without microtransactions, and after the reviews have been released, microtransactions are then added into the game. This prevents reviewers from reviewing/criticizing the use of MTX in these titles.

And there's more. Suffice to say, there's plenty of reason for warranted negative criticism thrown towards developers and publishers alike.

Phry

So, we can't blame EA for Respawns behaviour, this is all on them.
Guess i will have to add Respawn to my personal blacklist. With lead devs leaving Bioware etc. i can only imagine how bad things have got there, though the utter failure of Anthem and ME:Andromeda, i am surprised they stuck around as long as they did, it must have been soul destroying.
Respawn should take note, it might already be too late, but who knows.

Gdemami

ChildoftheShadows said:

I do find it funny when people complain about auto targeting in a space sim. Aiming would most definitely be done via computer.  

....space dogfighting is already silly as it is.

Gdemami

Sabrac said:

 complete lack of self-awareness of their actions regarding these monetization tactics and their obvious attempt to target the "whales" in their player base.

...and where is an issue with that?

Their game, their money, their monetization.

You don't like it? Fair enough but that is where it stops. You don't have to buy nor play their game.

Gaming is not your right, everything else is just
self-entitlement.

Xasapis

I'm a bit surprised they didn't go with the more universal woman hating excuse this time. Instead, they were more honest with their anti-consumer agenda and didn't much bother to camouflage the monetisation scam.

At least they used the more generic EA excuse "Please forgive us, we'll do better next time" ... when every next time is the exact same situation, if not worse.

Slapshot1188

Gdemami said:

Sabrac said:

 complete lack of self-awareness of their actions regarding these monetization tactics and their obvious attempt to target the "whales" in their player base.

...and where is an issue with that?

Their game, their money, their monetization.

You don't like it? Fair enough but that is where it stops. You don't have to buy nor play their game.

Gaming is not your right, everything else is just
self-entitlement.

A few points.  It's not THEIR money.  It's the customer's money and they want it.
And gaming is not a right, but discussion surely is.  And discussing what people see as poor practices is certainly everyone's right as long as it is not done in a violent manner or breaks some other law.

I totally agree that (outside gambling boxes targeted at kids) a company can charge whatever they want for their product.  They can charge by the bullet, by the life, by the minute.  Whatever.  But they have to expect that it takes 2 to tango and prospective customers WILL be allowed to discuss that.  Just like if HBO decided to go to a pay/minute concept or if DisneyWorld raises their prices and change their ticketing scheme. 

Videogames are not unique.

fcwedd

It was nowhere near as bad in the late 90s / early 00s. My guess is that when games did launch during those times, greed wasn't as blatant. For the most part, you either purchased the game and that was it or you also paid a monthly fee. Maybe a noteworthy expansion here and there. Exciting stuff.

These days, developers have gotten so out of control with the way they try to bring in money, e.g., Ridiculous $199.99+ Kickstarter packs, real-money gambling, pay 2 win cash shops, cross-promotion items, "premium access" monthly fee, DLCs, etc etc etc etc. It's just too much and it does get irritating. I understand why gamers are on the edge.