Somewhat recenty fantasy MMO where death is feared?

cmorris975

Hi there,

Are there any games that have been released within the last five years or so (or that have a healthy population and/or active development) where death is more than a minor annoyance?  

Although not really an MMO, ARK Survival Evolved would fit the bill but that's not D&D style fantasy.

I am thinking Legends of Aria could work (even if it has problems) or Darkfall New Dawn, if it still exists.

I don't need the game to be perfect - I just need that risk vs. reward in order to not have it turn into mindless button mashing where I don't really pay attention.

I like ESO a lot, for instance, but the lack of incentives to avoid death + the level scaling makes it a bit hollow for me.  I'd go play EQ emulators but it'd be nice to play something fresh if possible.  EVE is great but not really what I am looking for as I feel the urge to play something with traditional swords and sorcery.

Thanks!

Viper482

Nope. Too many people don't want a challenge, that's where the money is.

ultimateduck

What kind if incentives are you looking for? Not many old games had an incentive to not die other than exp loss or full loot.

Po_gg

What Viper said... I'm afraid "have been released within the last five years or so" with "death is more than a minor annoyance"  would give back an empty list as a result. It's simply not a concept recent games lean on anymore, and even older games try to eliminate it as much as they can.

There was a thread about death penalty before, I've said there AoC. Could worth a check from you too, it's sword and sorcery, decent population - though miss the mark on "active development", that's why it still has its original, decade-old death penalty system.

It ain't much, don't get me wrong, by the late 2000s games were already on the route of leaving harsh death penalties behind. Still, it can be painful, especially if you manage to die a second (or third) time while fight your way back to your tombstone it stacks.

However, game is fairly easy now, death usually comes from recklessness (pull too many at once) or from the tech side (lag spikes, bugs, server issues, etc.). They even had a "quasi permadeath" event a few months ago, and a lot of players managed to reach level 80 without a single death.

cmorris975

ultimateduck said:

What kind if incentives are you looking for? Not many old games had an incentive to not die other than exp loss or full loot.

Oh, anything works really.  I'm not picky.  XP loss and/or full loot is fine.  It sounds like there's not much to pick from though, so I may just end up giving Legends of Ultima a try.  It sounds like it could fit the bill rather well, even if I'm not a fan of the mostly isometric perspective.

Kyleran

Albion Online (Optional sub, released) or perhaps ArcheAge Unchained? (BTP, optional sub, releases end of Sep)

Amathe

Original Everquest is the only game where I feared death. In all other games I have played it was just annoying. Sometimes hardly even that. 

Kyleran

Amathe said:

Original Everquest is the only game where I feared death. In all other games I have played it was just annoying. Sometimes hardly even that. 

Try hauling 5B ISK of ore (several weeks of effort) back from null sec to market to sell, it will put the fear back in you just fine. (While wardec'd for extra challenge)

JeffSpicoli

Conan Exiles can be a real pain in the balls, You mentioned ARK op , Conan Exiles is a fantasy / in the ball park of D & D. 

  Dying sucks but having your base wrecked by a summoned god or another player is something entirely different. This game won't give you Eve online levels of masochism  but its up there.

ultimateduck

ArcheAge is the only one that comes to mind. Death usually meant you lost whatever you were hauling and whatever you were using to haul with... which sucks.

Sometimes it meant you failed to take something from someone else, which also sucks...lol

Albatroes

Lol death is feared in classic....gotta love dem corpse runs.

Xatsh

Good luck finding a recent mmo with this.

Need to play an older game for penalties. Archeage sorta has them if you have a trade packs could lose 100s of gold per death, otherwise not really. WoW I would not say has one. Corpse run is annoying but you lose nothing really besides an almost negligible amount of time running back.

Back in the days of losing gear or losing 20-30mins of progression every death or even deleveling and then you have a 10min run back to your camp spot. That made death actually relevant.

Today you have this mentality:

OMG death as a penalty that does not sound like fun at all. The game has to be 100% fun 100% of the time.

That is the new era of baby mode mmos. The masses push for crap like FFXIV where you get a 5% buff to everything every death. This I feel is part of the result of a generation of giving everyone even those who lose equal trophies when they were kids because parents were afraid to hurt their feelings. Now those kids are grown  and expect to be rewarded for everything with minimal effort and sub par performance. This is reflected both in games and the Work Place. Hell in RL half the new employees I train out of college do not finish stuff on time, half ass everything, and complain they are not making my salary. Amazing how 10-15yrs made that big of difference.

cmorris975

Albatroes said:

Lol death is feared in classic....gotta love dem corpse runs.

Classic?  Are you maybe talking about the new WoW servers?  I never really played that game so not sure.

Amathe

Kyleran said:

Amathe said:

Original Everquest is the only game where I feared death. In all other games I have played it was just annoying. Sometimes hardly even that. 

Try hauling 5B ISK of ore (several weeks of effort) back from null sec to market to sell, it will put the fear back in you just fine. (While wardec'd for extra challenge)

Oh I have no doubt that the prospect of death in Eve is scarier. Scary enough I don't even play it lol.

Albatroes

cmorris975 said:

Albatroes said:

Lol death is feared in classic....gotta love dem corpse runs.

Classic?  Are you maybe talking about the new WoW servers?  I never really played that game so not sure.

Yeah, the 'new' wow servers. You'll definitely not want to die (much), given how far it can be to your corpse and if you rez at the graveyard, you repair bill will easily skyrocket not to mention rez sickness.

Nebless

Not recent by a long shot, but DDO is running a Hardcore (VIP only) server that uses Perma-Death rules.

If you die your character is kicked off that server and you need to create a new character to continue to play on it.

The goal is to see who can level up the highest and the rewards are cosmetic items and for the top players at the end, their name in the Hall of Heroes in game.

Limited time server running thru Nov 15th and is packed pop-wise with players trying it. 

Panther2103

It's rare to have a game with an actual penalty for death. Wizardry online tried to have perma death but that didn't work out so well. Darkfall is an option as it's full loot so most of the time you fear death due to what you are carrying around. Nothing recent I can think of though. 

cmorris975

Nebless said:

Not recent by a long shot, but DDO is running a Hardcore (VIP only) server that uses Perma-Death rules.

If you die your character is kicked off that server and you need to create a new character to continue to play on it.

The goal is to see who can level up the highest and the rewards are cosmetic items and for the top players at the end, their name in the Hall of Heroes in game.

Limited time server running thru Nov 15th and is packed pop-wise with players trying it. 

Whoa, that sounds fantastic!  I think I will load that one up ASAP then.  Now *that* will get me out of "modern MMO mindless clicking" and paying attention!  Thanks for mentioning this.  I think between this, the WoW classic servers and possibly Legends of Ultima I should be set.  I need that "pucker factor", I miss it!

Po_gg

Sounds fantastic? AoC has the same (level to the cap without death for cosmetic rewards and an entry on the leaderboard), and not as a temporary thing, as said above...

Except in case of death the character ain't deleted, "just" lose its place in the programme and the chance of said rewards - so you might as well just delete it yourself, and start over.

Nebless, shouldn't you promote AoC too? You've played both Saga servers and a poster on the official forums...

Nebless

Po_gg said:

Nebless, shouldn't you promote AoC too? You've played both Saga servers and a poster on the official forums...  

Some one earlier had already mentioned AoC.   If the OP would have been closer to when AoC's came out (March) than I might have also said something.  The first couple of months it was quite big in game, but now not so much.  People still do it, but the shine is off of it.

DDO's on the other hand is in full swing right now.

centkin

I forget the name of it but wasnt there an up and coming one where you had to start over kind of as well as buy a spark for real money if you died often enough.  Seems none of the up and comings have come out or they did and nobody noticed.

Scorchien

  The whiny twats have won , you will have to go back to UO /Eve or EQ for ex.. to find any meaningfull death

Po_gg

centkin said:

I forget the name of it but wasnt there an up and coming one where you had to start over kind of as well as buy a spark for real money if you died often enough.  Seems none of the up and comings have come out or they did and nobody noticed.

By the sound of it, wasn't that Wizardry Online?

Not an exact match though, since you could avoid permadeath by farming enough items from the game, and too many fails resulted the delete regardless of any shop items.

I said from the beta till the cancel that the permadeath system will be one of the main reasons of the game's demise...

ed: added the quote since Scorch jumped inbetween

goboygo

They never last because they always go to the extreme, it seems there is no middle ground with developers.

Kyleran

cmorris975 said:

Nebless said:

Not recent by a long shot, but DDO is running a Hardcore (VIP only) server that uses Perma-Death rules.

If you die your character is kicked off that server and you need to create a new character to continue to play on it.

The goal is to see who can level up the highest and the rewards are cosmetic items and for the top players at the end, their name in the Hall of Heroes in game.

Limited time server running thru Nov 15th and is packed pop-wise with players trying it. 

Whoa, that sounds fantastic!  I think I will load that one up ASAP then.  Now *that* will get me out of "modern MMO mindless clicking" and paying attention!  Thanks for mentioning this.  I think between this, the WoW classic servers and possibly Legends of Ultima I should be set.  I need that "pucker factor", I miss it!

POE hardcore mode is for you then, new league just got started ..... 

Tiller

Scorchien said:

  The whiny twats have won , you will have to go back to UO /Eve or EQ for ex.. to find any meaningfull death

Yeah games are less of a challenge and player death less annoying with instant rez ect, but I think everyone who played those old MMOs all pissed and moaned about it at some point because of course death happened at the worst times; usually wasting hours of your time through no fault of your own. Hard mode is cool only when you are trying to see what your limits are, when trying to get things done it can kill the fun. We can all sit here now and talk about the good ol' days like it was the the best time ever, but lets be honest we all raged at some point over it.

I didn't mind SWG mechanics when it came to death, but was happy when they removed corpse runs and you only had to worry about item decay. I remember having guild nights on Dathomir or Death Watch bunker and you had to spend 30-45min traveling back to your guildmates after dying. I don't think most people would have the patience these days to stand around and wait for people to come back to help, then stand around for buffs and wound heals.

I used to be able to play SWG 15+ hours a day; and I knew many others who stayed logged in 24/7, even while at work. I wish I had that kind of time on my hands now. I imagine if those mechanics ever made an appearance in a newer triple A MMO it would be laughed out of existence. Different times man. Unless you got a time machine it's never coming back.