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Path of Exile Launches, Then Pulls, New Salvage Box Following Outrage - MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited September 2019 in News & Features Discussion

imagePath of Exile Launches, Then Pulls, New Salvage Box Following Outrage - MMORPG.com

If you've been paying attention to the gaming world at large over the last two years, you've already heard of a kerfuffle or two surrounding in-game loot boxes. Well, we can add another to the list with Path of Exile but this one has a unique slant and some players feel an internet mob may have stole a useful new feature out from under them.

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Comments

  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 566
    At first glance you'd think it's a good solution to having a pile of useless duplicates. Until you realize that the original transaction was designed to give you duplicates. It's double dipping and I think it's scummy.

    The functionality is good, the monetization is not. This should be a free service that is simply there to reward your paying customers that buy enough boxes to have a problem. Unfortunately, they would just drop the rates on the original transaction to account for the odds of getting something out of the salvage.
    GameByNightWhiteLanternMyrdynnFolmengastovski1Scot[Deleted User]bartoni33
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Wow, that's crazy. A loot box that you can spend more money on.

    Who'd have thought PoE would be the first one to try something like this?
    Folmen[Deleted User]Iselin
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • koldmiserkoldmiser Member RarePosts: 353
    I'm kind of torn on this. I like what it does, I don't like the reason they had to make it.

    I honestly feel that you should never have to worry about dupes. I feel like if you buy a loot box and get an item it should be removed from the loot table forever.
    FolmenKyleran
  • GameByNightGameByNight Hardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 808

    koldmiser said:

    I'm kind of torn on this. I like what it does, I don't like the reason they had to make it.



    I honestly feel that you should never have to worry about dupes. I feel like if you buy a loot box and get an item it should be removed from the loot table forever.



    Better they fixed the original problem of duplicates being possible in the first place.
    KyleranTacticalZombehFolmenScot[Deleted User]Ginaz
  • chilltime99chilltime99 Member UncommonPosts: 57
    Not a fan. Maybe my impression would be different if they called it something else. But the word “box” kinda kills it for me.

    I’m mean, what dumb ass thought using the word box would be well received by the player base. There are other words that could be used to describe it like kit or tool.

    Although I guess you can call a turd a diamond but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a turd.
    Lecram6468
  • Zero_nameZero_name Member UncommonPosts: 13


    Not a fan. Maybe my impression would be different if they called it something else. But the word “box” kinda kills it for me.



    I’m mean, what dumb ass thought using the word box would be well received by the player base. There are other words that could be used to describe it like kit or tool.



    Although I guess you can call a turd a diamond but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a turd.



    "Bag of surprise"
    KyleranFolmenchilltime99
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,209
    Was removed due to community response. Good on them.
    IselinFolmen
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Utinni said:
    Was removed due to community response. Good on them.
    Weird coming from the guy who earlier today said:

    "Its creepy that people still get upset over MTX. It's not new, and its not going away. Get over it."

    Apparently this one went away because players didn't get over it.

    SlyLoKTacticalZombehLokeroFolmenSpottyGekkoGinazAeander[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • BoltonsquadBoltonsquad Member UncommonPosts: 403
    I've spent a good $1500 on Path of Exile, mainly actual MTX and not loot boxes, I also agree that you shouldn't be able to get duplicates however that would then negate the purpose of a loot box, it's random, you win some lose some.

    Luckily enough most of the time they do release loot box content afterwards at set prices which they should just do anyways, but I guess player's like to take there chances and get some sort of joy out of gambling.
    Folmen
  • TacticalZombehTacticalZombeh Member UncommonPosts: 430

    Iselin said:


    Utinni said:

    Was removed due to community response. Good on them.


    Weird coming from the guy who earlier today said:

    "Its creepy that people still get upset over MTX. It's not new, and its not going away. Get over it."

    Apparently this one went away because players didn't get over it.




    When I saw his original post I contemplated replying with something along the lines of: Remember Battlefront 2? I got distracted and never replied, but this reinforces what I was thinking.

    Gamers DO have a voice and while it may be ignored in some cases (Bethesda), that doesn't mean we should ever give up.
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,209
    Iselin said:
    Utinni said:
    Was removed due to community response. Good on them.
    Weird coming from the guy who earlier today said:

    "Its creepy that people still get upset over MTX. It's not new, and its not going away. Get over it."

    Apparently this one went away because players didn't get over it.

    As far as I'm aware GGG didn't remove MTX from their game. Path of Exile runs on microtransactions. They removed one item that was clearly out of place in their game. Player's did not rise up and have them somehow convert away from MTX to support their game. 
    IselinAeander
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556

    DMKano said:

    Surprise mechanics.

    Remember that this was doomed as soon as Tencent stepped in and acquired majority stake in GGG



    And if anyone should doubt what you wrote just look at how cash grabby Supercell has become recently by adding those 30 day battle passes and the frequency of the special emote deals that are far too many too often even by mobile game standards.

    I think they showed their hand with this move and people may be hesitant from now on spending money if they think GGG aka Tencent has more "experiments" like this to test how far they can push it just waiting to be implemented.
    Folmen
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    What's next ?

    A lootbox costing $16 that gives you a $15 discount on some other lootbox ? :D
    [Deleted User]IselinKyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Wow, that's crazy. A loot box that you can spend more money on.

    Who'd have thought PoE would be the first one to try something like this?
    Any game that is doing well with a decent financial model has for years been in the position of being eyed up for the institution of dodgy practices. I am sure Tencent would have factored in all the cash grabbing changes they wanted to bring to the cash shop when they decided to acquire so many shares. If this gets stopped they will simply look at others ways of milking the cash cow.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,696
    Not a fan. Maybe my impression would be different if they called it something else. But the word “box” kinda kills it for me.

    I’m mean, what dumb ass thought using the word box would be well received by the player base. There are other words that could be used to describe it like kit or tool.

    Although I guess you can call a turd a diamond but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a turd.
    How about “Surprise Mechanic Duplication Fun”
    Call these things what you want, they are still lottery money grabs.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,688
    edited September 2019
    Wow, that's crazy. A loot box that you can spend more money on.

    Who'd have thought PoE would be the first one to try something like this?
    They're not actually the first (I recall several mobile games I played where cash shop items who's purpose was to re-roll or recycle other cash shop items existed), though they're the first big-name game to do it and it hurts all the more because people expected better of GGG and also are sad that they're gradually going to go down the Ten Cent route if things keep up like this.


    Garick said:
    Couldn't they just let you take duplicate items, if they have different rarity and then maybe "melt" those items into a rarity number that lets you spend that "rarity" level on a list of items? instead of making the item random let them get the exact item. They paid for it, why not get what you want?

    Yes, they could, and I've seen other games do that too (including one I recently played but quit for other reasons).  Yet another reason the majority of the community was so mad about it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    OG_Zorvan said:
    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.
    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • boris20boris20 Member RarePosts: 404
    Ive played POE for years now, and never bought any cosmetic items. Only a few QOL stash tabs. Probably 30$ total invested, playing off and on for the last 6 years.
  • RobbgobbRobbgobb Member UncommonPosts: 674

    Kyleran said:


    OG_Zorvan said:

    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.


    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.



    Then again for PoE, there is the bag space. I know people who within minutes of first playing decided they needed to buy extra stash space and the things offered there to truly enjoy the game. I would be curious on to see the number of people who play for a long time and have spent nothing versus the ones who have spend. Of course the prices are much cheaper than ESO.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Funny story, with this new league they gave me a free Frontier loot box which I opened yesterday.

    Clearly GGG has an ironic sense of humor,  as my "gift" turned out to be a waterfall which rains gold coins clear out of the sky, which I placed over the teleporter in my hideout.

    Was rather perfect I think.

    ;)

    [Deleted User]Scot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,777

    Robbgobb said:



    Kyleran said:




    OG_Zorvan said:


    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.




    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.






    Then again for PoE, there is the bag space. I know people who within minutes of first playing decided they needed to buy extra stash space and the things offered there to truly enjoy the game. I would be curious on to see the number of people who play for a long time and have spent nothing versus the ones who have spend. Of course the prices are much cheaper than ESO.



    Those people within minutes that spent money on bag space are people who are within minutes going to spend on whatever free game they are playing if it offers any form of convenience in the shop.

    I played POE for a very long time before spending any cash on it, and the only reason I did was because I wanted to support the game that I had spent so much time playing for free. I could live without the stash tabs, but they are a lot easier than having another account specifically to hold my extra crap. You could also be stingy with the items and sell whatever extra you have to other players. It's entirely possible to play the game without paying anything at all and I know quite a few people who have hundreds of hours in it and haven't spent anything.
    Kyleranmklinic
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited September 2019

    Robbgobb said:



    Kyleran said:




    OG_Zorvan said:


    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.




    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.






    Then again for PoE, there is the bag space. I know people who within minutes of first playing decided they needed to buy extra stash space and the things offered there to truly enjoy the game. I would be curious on to see the number of people who play for a long time and have spent nothing versus the ones who have spend. Of course the prices are much cheaper than ESO.



    Those people within minutes that spent money on bag space are people who are within minutes going to spend on whatever free game they are playing if it offers any form of convenience in the shop.

    I played POE for a very long time before spending any cash on it, and the only reason I did was because I wanted to support the game that I had spent so much time playing for free. I could live without the stash tabs, but they are a lot easier than having another account specifically to hold my extra crap. You could also be stingy with the items and sell whatever extra you have to other players. It's entirely possible to play the game without paying anything at all and I know quite a few people who have hundreds of hours in it and haven't spent anything.
    Well I could drive a car with no AC and a stick shift, but I like convenience so much I have power windows which I rarely ever roll down to go with my automatic transmission and AC. ;)

    Being a huge hoarder at heart, I have bought nearly every possible stash tab option, just picked up the new Delving tab this morning, hey it wasn't even on sale. (Freed up a  purchased quad tab I was holding all my Fossils and Resonators in.)

    But it is true,  one can easily freeload in POE, but just isn't how I roll.

    B)


    CryomatrixPanther2103

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    edited September 2019
    Kyleran said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.
    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.
    They'll come up with a solution similar to ESO no doubt and that would be the best way to go about it imo. You shouldn't have to pay again to get something out of your duplicates, they should just be broken down into a currency so that, when you have enough, you can directly exchange it for something you want.. for no additional charge.

    What they tried was basically saying that if you don't want your purchase to be a complete 100% waste of money, you have to pay again.. and possibly 'again'. It also means that the more stuff you have obtained, the more it's going to cost you to obtain the rest. That is not right in any way, no matter what the overall business model is.

    I know it works like that currently as well but this was a terrible solution that only increased your chances of making use of your duplicates. You still could have just got another duplicate.
    [Deleted User]
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,688
    edited September 2019
    Kyleran said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    ESO has a system like this. If you get duplicates, or just things you don't want, you can salvage the items into gems which can then be spent directly on stuff. But, at least in this instance, ZOS was smart enough not to make you buy the system to use it. When Bethesda is smarter about something than POE devs ( or any other dev really ), you know there's a problem.
    Not a fair comparison IMO, ESO is B2P, has paid expansions, and a not really optional patron sub (for the crafting bag) while POE is F2P with truly optional cosmetic and not so optional inventory cash shop items.

    POE has long had loot boxes in their store, thankfully none drop in game, so I'm not quite sure what the uproar is all about.

    So now that this new box has been pulled, players who have lots of unwanted duplicates can continue to just sit on them.

    Well on the plus side now they'll probably have to buy more stash tabs from the cash shop to hold the extras, so POE still wins, but the players, not so much.
    They'll come up with a solution similar to ESO no doubt and that would be the best way to go about it imo. You shouldn't have to pay again to get something out of your duplicates, they should just be broken down into a currency so that, when you have enough, you can directly exchange it for something you want.. for no additional charge.

    What they tried was basically saying that if you don't want your purchase to be a complete 100% waste of money, you have to pay again.. and possibly 'again'. It also means that the more stuff you have obtained, the more it's going to cost you to obtain the rest. That is not right in any way, no matter what the overall business model is.

    I know it works like that currently as well but this was a terrible solution that only increased your chances of making use of your duplicates. You still could have just got another duplicate.
    Yea.  Tree of Savior is an F2P game, and in that game, you can exchange stuff from the "Surprise Mechanics" that you don't want for points that can then be turned in for the "Surprise Mechanics" stuff you do want.

    So it's not just the B2P game ESO that does it.  And not just ToS either although I forget the names of some other MMOs I've played over the years that had it.
    [Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited September 2019
    Torval said:
    They could allow players to break them down or provide an NPC vendor to barter them for something useful. Trying to monetize loot crate failures is gross. It's bad enough they sell them in the first place.
    The real failure then is people actually buying loot crates.

    But people do all sorts of stupid shit with their money, and others say it's none of anyone's business if they do.

    Let them continue to jump off the bridge then.

    :D


    SpottyGekko[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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