What Blizzard should do

elveone

Phry said:

elveone said:

Lawlmonster said:

elveone said:

Lawlmonster said:

I think it's a bit hypocritical for a company that's prospered due to a democratic system to kowtow at the behest of Chinese censorship to protect their business interests. Ultimately, however, I'm glad they banned the player, and not because I think he should be punished for breaking any rules or using a platform that's been created for something in a way it wasn't meant to be utilized. I'm glad because banning him has, without a doubt, drawn an even greater attention to the contentious relationship between Hong Kong and China for people who might not otherwise know or give a damn.

As to answer the thread, in the position they've put themselves, I think they might have to make a hard choice between an ethical dilemma and a capital dilemma. Which is more important to them? I wouldn't even pretend to say I could confidently make that judgement with the information I have as an outsider.

Is it really an ethical dilemma when you can do nothing about the situation? Blizzard are not to blame for what is happening in Hong Kong and actually the only thing they could do about it was to remove the video in question and play the bad guys in order to incite public outrage. Not that they did it for that reason but that was really also the best way to gather support for the cause.

I agree, I think it may be true that playing the bad guy in this situation might have been their best maneuver to incite outrage, like you and I have both mentioned in our posts. However, I do believe it's an ethical dilemma for a company who's prospered in a democratic system to allow a foreign, authoritarian censorship to determine what can or can't be said on their platform for the sake of protecting financial interests. 

Except Blizzard did set the rules against political speech on tournaments and I think those rules are just fine. When you choose to break the rules you should be ready to take the consequences. Just because the political message is something we agree with doesn't mean that rules should not be enforced. The neutral stance according to the rules that Blizzard themselves have set would be to uphold said rules and not to break them in favor of a political view. Also breaking those rules would be equal to financial suicide in this case which would make whoever does it liable for prosecution.

Well Blizzard is just reaping what they sowed, and financial suicide is just about assured by their actions, their rules are a joke and the sorry excuses that people use to try and defend Blizzard are laughable, pure comedy. As for being liable for prosecution, you clearly have no knowledge of the law or the judicial process, because someone who did would never make such a ludicrous statement.

You are giving this "outrage" way too much credit.

elveone

YashaX said:

BizkitNL said:

This whole outcry right now is plain wrong. The more days go by, the more misinformation is being spread. It's hilarious.

The rules they set for that tournament (and any other tournament) is to keep things neutral. Amongst other things, you are not to embarass Blizzard, it's sponsors or affiliates or any other parties while attending the tournament.

Even though the player's cause is just and right, that is not a reason to simply break the rules he agreed to in the first place.

And now, the internet is all over it like the latest anti-game-corporation outrage, misusing reasons as freedom of speech, claiming Blizzard is in China's pocket. It's a hilarious shitshow that just shows how stupid people are on the internet.

Saying a few unoffensive words in support of maintaining the rights of millions of people should not be seen as embarassing or damaging to an image or brand (unless your brand is authoritarianism- is that what Blizzard supports?)

It is a few unoffesive words this time. It is dangerous to set a precedence cause the next time it might be muslim group requesting secession from the United States and if Blizzard cracks down on that then they might be liable for discrimination.

elveone

Phry said:

YashaX said:

BizkitNL said:

This whole outcry right now is plain wrong. The more days go by, the more misinformation is being spread. It's hilarious.

The rules they set for that tournament (and any other tournament) is to keep things neutral. Amongst other things, you are not to embarass Blizzard, it's sponsors or affiliates or any other parties while attending the tournament.

Even though the player's cause is just and right, that is not a reason to simply break the rules he agreed to in the first place.

And now, the internet is all over it like the latest anti-game-corporation outrage, misusing reasons as freedom of speech, claiming Blizzard is in China's pocket. It's a hilarious shitshow that just shows how stupid people are on the internet.

Saying a few unoffensive words in support of maintaining the rights of millions of people should not be seen as embarassing or damaging to an image or brand (unless your brand is authoritarianism- is that what Blizzard supports?)

What is also telling is that Blizzard employees are not on board with this either, they have been staging protests of their own against the management.

Actually the telling part is those employees still having a job. Blizzard are clearly not supporting an authoritarian regime - they are enforcing the rules they have set.

mbrodie

Phry said:

YashaX said:

BizkitNL said:

This whole outcry right now is plain wrong. The more days go by, the more misinformation is being spread. It's hilarious.

The rules they set for that tournament (and any other tournament) is to keep things neutral. Amongst other things, you are not to embarass Blizzard, it's sponsors or affiliates or any other parties while attending the tournament.

Even though the player's cause is just and right, that is not a reason to simply break the rules he agreed to in the first place.

And now, the internet is all over it like the latest anti-game-corporation outrage, misusing reasons as freedom of speech, claiming Blizzard is in China's pocket. It's a hilarious shitshow that just shows how stupid people are on the internet.

Saying a few unoffensive words in support of maintaining the rights of millions of people should not be seen as embarassing or damaging to an image or brand (unless your brand is authoritarianism- is that what Blizzard supports?)

What is also telling is that Blizzard employees are not on board with this either, they have been staging protests of their own against the management.

No no a small group of roughly 20 employees (as written by the interviews staff who were there) in a company that employs roughly 4700 people sat at a statue for a few hours with no signage or anything to depict what they were actually doing except for 3 umbrellas...

so like the internet, a small percentage is morally outraged and over the top with their reactions... funnily enough who also weren’t bothered by this situation until it became an issue to have with a video game company.

and by all accounts blizzard did nothing to break up their “protest” I mean if blizzard was all evil and whatever else you’re claiming to be, surely those protesters would be unemployed right now.

do I feel bad for the situation in China... yes
do I think blizzard is responsible or their actions were unjustified.... no

Myrdynn

this is the whole Kaepernick situation all over again, and quite frankly I wondered if in my mind, if someone did this that I actually agreed with on a political stance, how I would feel.  Well I completely stand against Kaepernick on not only his agenda, but the fact that he never said a word on his own time, and used the NFL as a pawn, and I completely agree with what this kid said and did, but Blizzard has every right to do what they did and I support them more, just as I would have supported the NFL if they actually had took a stance

games, sports and entertainment are there for us to escape from this constant political war, not to drive agendas further

TiamatRoar

Blizzard played right into his hands by banning him and giving him the harshest penalty possible instead of a lighter one (although that might not necessarily be what he intended, but sometimes you win bigger than you thought you would).  They made a martyr in one of the stupidest ways possible when there were so many other ways they could have handled the situation.

What can they do NOW?  It's a bit late for that.  They should have released a milque-toast thoughts-and-prayers "both sides!" apology immediately, but now it's been several days and they've done NOTHING but release a statement in Chinese saying they want to "preserve the dignity of a country" (which if they're trying to emulate how dictators speak and the language style they use, they're doing a good job).  The fact that they've yet to release a western statement, but released a Chinese statement using flowery dictator-esque language, whether on purpose or not, just rubbed salt into their wound.

It's so stupid and incompetent of them that it's almost like they're doing this on purpose.  They need to fire their current PR employees and get some actual competent ones.  ....oh, I guess that's the answer to "What should Blizzard do?"

someforumguy

Blizzard is now controlled by Activision and they act where the money is. There are two options :

- Write comments on how you are against them, rile everyone up, make sure its picked up by the media. Result : Activision doesn't give a shit and keeps doing what they do.

- Stop buying and playing/spending in their games and state why. This also means Blizzard games, otherwise it is pointless to begin with. Result : Activision MIGHT (depending on the western revenue loss put against gain in China) change their policy.

But don't let your hopes up. The Activision big wig head honcho billionaire doesn't notice you. You are just part of the always existing white noise in his background that he is used to ignore. Only big shareholders exist to him. So try to make them squeak.

Mendel

What Blizzard should do, according to the book of Mendel Volume 3.

Resurrect the Titan project.

Horusra

someforumguy said:

Blizzard is now controlled by Activision and they act where the money is. There are two options :

- Write comments on how you are against them, rile everyone up, make sure its picked up by the media. Result : Activision doesn't give a shit and keeps doing what they do.

- Stop buying and playing/spending in their games and state why. This also means Blizzard games, otherwise it is pointless to begin with. Result : Activision MIGHT (depending on the western revenue loss put against gain in China) change their policy.

But don't let your hopes up. The Activision big wig head honcho billionaire doesn't notice you. You are just part of the always existing white noise in his background that he is used to ignore. Only big shareholders exist to him. So try to make them squeak.

All those other boycott Chinese made or Chinese backed products did so well... the majority do not watch or listen to news (reliable news anyway).  

someforumguy

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

Blizzard is now controlled by Activision and they act where the money is. There are two options :

- Write comments on how you are against them, rile everyone up, make sure its picked up by the media. Result : Activision doesn't give a shit and keeps doing what they do.

- Stop buying and playing/spending in their games and state why. This also means Blizzard games, otherwise it is pointless to begin with. Result : Activision MIGHT (depending on the western revenue loss put against gain in China) change their policy.

But don't let your hopes up. The Activision big wig head honcho billionaire doesn't notice you. You are just part of the always existing white noise in his background that he is used to ignore. Only big shareholders exist to him. So try to make them squeak.

All those other boycott Chinese made or Chinese backed products did so well... the majority do not watch or listen to news (reliable news anyway).  

So what?

Is this your (weak whataboutism) excuse to do nothing so you can keep playing your Activision games?

There is no need for a 100% boycot. It only needs to be done by enough players to be noticable for Activision shareholders so that they can act.

Horusra

someforumguy said:

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

Blizzard is now controlled by Activision and they act where the money is. There are two options :

- Write comments on how you are against them, rile everyone up, make sure its picked up by the media. Result : Activision doesn't give a shit and keeps doing what they do.

- Stop buying and playing/spending in their games and state why. This also means Blizzard games, otherwise it is pointless to begin with. Result : Activision MIGHT (depending on the western revenue loss put against gain in China) change their policy.

But don't let your hopes up. The Activision big wig head honcho billionaire doesn't notice you. You are just part of the always existing white noise in his background that he is used to ignore. Only big shareholders exist to him. So try to make them squeak.

All those other boycott Chinese made or Chinese backed products did so well... the majority do not watch or listen to news (reliable news anyway).  

So what?

Is this your (weak whataboutism) excuse to do nothing so you can keep playing your Activision games?

There is no need for a 100% boycot. It only needs to be done by enough players to be noticable for Activision shareholders so that they can act.

I am not boycotting cause I do not care.  I got shot in my own country to fight without dealing with others.  Boycotting companies over conditions our governments have created is pointless.  I would rather the government boycott China.  Cut all financial ties till they straighten up, but that is not happening.  So the parameters are set that companies pander to the Chinese market.  People still flood Disney though they manipulate their ESPN and entertainment sections to suit China and people still buy Apple products.  So no the boycott is going to be pointless.

hardicon1

I think everyone that is upset with Blizzard needs to go to Hong Kong and protest along with the protestors.  But its just fake keyboard outrage from people that claim to be woke.  Which really means they wont do anything but whine.

Horusra

hardicon1 said:

I think everyone that is upset with Blizzard needs to go to Hong Kong and protest along with the protestors.  But its just fake keyboard outrage from people that claim to be woke.  Which really means they wont do anything but whine.

It is the easiest and most non useful protest they can do.  Bet the people in Hong Kong are grateful for people not playing a game instead of protesting to their government leaders to do something.  We all know Activision has the power to sway the Chinese government.

Hatefull

The best thing for Blizzard to do right now is; move on. They need to show consistency in enforcing their rules and continue doing what they do, but it's not like they are going to shutter the place because of this. As someone pointed out in two weeks (likely less) there will be another "crime against humanity" to be semi-righteous and ill-informed about. Make sure you tweet about it on your newest smartphone. You know, the one made from rare-earth metal mined in Africa, and assembled in China? Yeah, go protest on that device as well.

As I pointed out in a different thread, Gamers being a small percentage of the people on the planet, and the whiners being a small part of that group, this ripple will pass away. The ineffectual rage they throw at a gaming site, over a problem they intend to do absolutely nothing about is amusing, but it will pass and we will get on to bashing EA, or any number of other rinse and repeat topics that take place here.

As far as politicians being involved, lol who cares? They will get distracted by the next shiny that comes along as well. I mean seriously what are they going to do? Put trade embargos in place? Stop tourism? Send the Marines? Nothing, nothing is exactly what they are going to do.

GeezerGamer

removed per request.

vandal5627

GeezerGamer said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYta58KyAMY (Tim Pool)

To the moderators of this site. I don't want to tell you what you should do, but I'll ask. Please listen to what this guy says (Or someone like him if you don't like this guy, but someone with facts). I think he's nailing it on what Blizzard and other companies are doing.

To sit here and say "We are closing threads because of a no-politics subject rule" is archaic and no longer reasonable.  There is no separation of politics in gaming anymore. Our games are built around politics now. You can't just shut this down. It's a discourse that needs to happen. 

No please no, please just close these threads.  All it comes out to is people forcing their bias opinions down each other's throats.  Doesn't help anyone to be informed because there are no facts just people trying to one up the other with their own bias opinions calling them facts.  The discourse would be take your politics elsewhere.

GeezerGamer

vandal5627 said:

GeezerGamer said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYta58KyAMY (Tim Pool)

To the moderators of this site. I don't want to tell you what you should do, but I'll ask. Please listen to what this guy says (Or someone like him if you don't like this guy, but someone with facts). I think he's nailing it on what Blizzard and other companies are doing.

To sit here and say "We are closing threads because of a no-politics subject rule" is archaic and no longer reasonable.  There is no separation of politics in gaming anymore. Our games are built around politics now. You can't just shut this down. It's a discourse that needs to happen. 

No please no, please just close these threads.  All it comes out to is people forcing their bias opinions down each other's throats.  Doesn't help anyone to be informed because there are no facts just people trying to one up the other with their own bias opinions calling them facts.  The discourse would be take your politics elsewhere.

As you requested.......

vandal5627

Rhoklaw said:

vandal5627 said:

GeezerGamer said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYta58KyAMY (Tim Pool)

To the moderators of this site. I don't want to tell you what you should do, but I'll ask. Please listen to what this guy says (Or someone like him if you don't like this guy, but someone with facts). I think he's nailing it on what Blizzard and other companies are doing.

To sit here and say "We are closing threads because of a no-politics subject rule" is archaic and no longer reasonable.  There is no separation of politics in gaming anymore. Our games are built around politics now. You can't just shut this down. It's a discourse that needs to happen. 

No please no, please just close these threads.  All it comes out to is people forcing their bias opinions down each other's throats.  Doesn't help anyone to be informed because there are no facts just people trying to one up the other with their own bias opinions calling them facts.  The discourse would be take your politics elsewhere.

Than what MMORPG.com needs to do is stop bringing politics to the table. They've done it countless times before and again with this story. If politics doesn't belong on this site, don't post political pieces.

I find it hilariously ironic how they preach, no political discussions, but they still write political pieces.

MikeB has already made a statement on this.  Not every site is perfect.  There will be instances of this that will happen.  I mean, for as long as this site has been up, I can't remember the last time there was a political piece.  The only reason is probably because blizzard is one of the biggest names that is affected. 
So, if it's not good enough for you then maybe this site isn't for you anymore.  But for me, I love this site.  I come here daily to read the bickering between everyone here.  It's fun to see the different opinions regarding gaming and all their thought processes even if I don't agree with them I still read them all.  But when it comes to politics in this day in age, there is no compromise or discussion.  It's always hatred between  groups and name calling.

AlBQuirky

Mendel said:

What Blizzard should do, according to the book of Mendel Volume 3.

Resurrect the Titan project.

It just hit me... If you had a son, would he be known as Mendel's son? (Mendelssohn)

Celcius

Nothing.

Hariken

iixviiiix said:

I think right now Blizzard is happy , they get attention in west and get supported from china . There are no bigger reward than this

They don't care because China is their future when it comes to money.

Mendel

AlBQuirky said:

Mendel said:

What Blizzard should do, according to the book of Mendel Volume 3.

Resurrect the Titan project.

It just hit me... If you had a son, would he be known as Mendel's son? (Mendelssohn)

Both are mathematicians.  So, possibly.

iixviiiix

Honestly i ready hope that blizzard get destroyed . In this age , something as big as blizzard need to go down so the other can rise up

But i don't think consumers have enough power to do that .

WarEnsemble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p8Aq5BM9io

Quizzical

mbrodie said:

Blizzard needs todo nothing, the guy broke the rules, he got punished.

Too bad, move on

Except that they didn't have a no politics rule for him to break.  Look at their statement justifying the ban.  They don't cite a rule against political statements.  They cite a catchall that basically means that they can ban you for whatever reason they like.

If they had a rule against political statements, I'd agree with you.  But they didn't.  What they really need to decide is whether they want to have one.  If so, then announce it, enforce it consistently, and reduce the ban to a hand slap and a warning so as not to enforce the new rule retroactively.  And if not, then rescind the ban with a profuse apology.