The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
If you look at the bottom of Pantheon's web site, you see a link titled "What is Pantheon". Click it and read what this game is about.
In a crowd funded project, when should they start crowd funding? How should they fund the project until the "Delete" acceptable time to start crowd funding?
Early in some of the video's you could see some of the basic animations which probably came with the software they are using. They were not very good, so you are saying they should have just stuck with those and not done like most all other games and developed unique animations for the game?
You do understand that when they talk about something in the newsletter or video's that does not mean that they whole team is only working on that particular aspect. They probably have one developer that works part time on animations as this is a small team.
Most all games have a NDA, when development is in a state of flux, its of little use to show things that may change the next week as the project progresses.
As far as testing goes, we probably be a lot better off if more of that was done during development, maybe we would see games release with a lot less bugs.
I can understand their troubles they have a small dev team, but a game like Star Citizen with over 200 million dollars and 500+ people working on it is a bit hard to fathom why it is nowhere near launch.
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
How can you say ANY of this? You legitimately started a thread on the SoL page titled "Going dark... Good move !"
Where you ramble on about how going dark is such a good decision. SoL is also a crowd funded game mind you.
Now, all you do is piss and moan about how pantheon doesn't keep their backers up to date and doesn't show any gameplay, you say they cant even tell us what the game is about! Except there is a plethora of information about this game in comparison to others in development. So which is it?
Take a position and stick with it, or sit down and shut up like the rest of us because it is clear you don't know what you actually want or stand for.
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
How can you say ANY of this? You legitimately started a thread on the SoL page titled "Going dark... Good move !"
Where you ramble on about how going dark is such a good decision. SoL is also a crowd funded game mind you.
Now, all you do is piss and moan about how pantheon doesn't keep their backers up to date and doesn't show any gameplay, you say they cant even tell us what the game is about! Except there is a plethora of information about this game in comparison to others in development. So which is it?
Take a position and stick with it, or sit down and shut up like the rest of us because it is clear you don't know what you actually want or stand for.
I'M IN THE SOL BETA !...... The game is doing very well, that's all I'll say. Their not stringing people along and giving false hope. They closed off the public to not get them mad with a lot of bullshit.
They will open up again, I think soon...... Very proficient game and the way their handling it.
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
How can you say ANY of this? You legitimately started a thread on the SoL page titled "Going dark... Good move !"
Where you ramble on about how going dark is such a good decision. SoL is also a crowd funded game mind you.
Now, all you do is piss and moan about how pantheon doesn't keep their backers up to date and doesn't show any gameplay, you say they cant even tell us what the game is about! Except there is a plethora of information about this game in comparison to others in development. So which is it?
Take a position and stick with it, or sit down and shut up like the rest of us because it is clear you don't know what you actually want or stand for.
I'M IN THE SOL BETA !...... The game is doing very well, that's all I'll say. Their not stringing people along and giving false hope. They closed off the public to not get them mad with a lot of bullshit.
They will open up again, I think soon...... Very proficient game and the way their handling it.
By the way... they do a lot for free....FREE
Now we get down to what the issue is. They will not give Delete free access to the Pantheon pre-alpha.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
Again, I as the question, what money have you put into the game where your fretting over its time frame?
I've asked this, now, three times. I have put money into it and I'm not fretting. While there might be disappointed patrons I've not seen any as of yet start with the world is ending rants. Only you. So how much are you in for? And if you aren't in for any money why are you using this argument? No one else seems to be besides themselves. Except for you, the person who (most likely) has not put in any money.
Also, and you ignore this yet again, they didn't start full gangbusters for 6 years. 6 years ago their kickstarter failed, they said that they would continue development but had to remake the team and that development would be at a very slow pace. They might have even used "glacial."
So what of that do you not understand?
I'll add that I don't expect the game to launch though it will be nice if it does. But not up in arms at losing my $100. Unlike the person who has lost nothing (most likely.)
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The point, dear Delete, is that VR didn’t use scammy tactics to raise money, unlike most of the others.
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow. So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game. But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Well starting the collection so early is arguable. Sure their not rules against that but you would think they would have at least started the game at least the most basic level before hand.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly: -What this game is all about ! -How much is developed ! -When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important: No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
How can you say ANY of this? You legitimately started a thread on the SoL page titled "Going dark... Good move !"
Where you ramble on about how going dark is such a good decision. SoL is also a crowd funded game mind you.
Now, all you do is piss and moan about how pantheon doesn't keep their backers up to date and doesn't show any gameplay, you say they cant even tell us what the game is about! Except there is a plethora of information about this game in comparison to others in development. So which is it?
Take a position and stick with it, or sit down and shut up like the rest of us because it is clear you don't know what you actually want or stand for.
I'M IN THE SOL BETA !...... The game is doing very well, that's all I'll say. Their not stringing people along and giving false hope. They closed off the public to not get them mad with a lot of bullshit.
They will open up again, I think soon...... Very proficient game and the way their handling it.
By the way... they do a lot for free....FREE
Sounds like you can now stop worrying about Pantheons delivery yes?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't agree, I did not give money, but I had a pretty clear idea where they were, when they started taking money. I do not think I had some extra special powers to do this.
Not to pile on, but to be honest, when I clicked this thread, I got the , "Oh god, here we probably go with something silly". I mean we don't have a lot to talk about, so it doesn't matter, but I hope everyone that gives money to these projects doesn't give more than they could shrug away, and realize that they may need to do that.
Saying that, I have contemplated doing $100 for the wife and I, and I can shrug that away (I don't want to shrug it away, but I will not get irate and have a tantrum if I have to). I hope the game gets made, and it is good, as it is one of the few things I am watching and hoping comes out.
I don't agree, I did not give money, but I had a pretty clear idea where they were, when they started taking money. I do not think I had some extra special powers to do this.
Not to pile on, but to be honest, when I clicked this thread, I got the , "Oh god, here we probably go with something silly". I mean we don't have a lot to talk about, so it doesn't matter, but I hope everyone that gives money to these projects doesn't give more than they could shrug away, and realize that they may need to do that.
Saying that, I have contemplated doing $100 for the wife and I, and I can shrug that away (I don't want to shrug it away, but I will not get irate and have a tantrum if I have to). I hope the game gets made, and it is good, as it is one of the few things I am watching and hoping comes out.
Have a happy new year people.
My big problem is crowd funding a game so developers can figure out how to make a 3D game is if it were their first day on the job. Six years of it.
Wheres the experienced developers ?.... Maybe they need to go outside and see how games had advanced already.
Looks no better than EQ2 latest expansions. Yet they seem to struggle.
I don't agree, I did not give money, but I had a pretty clear idea where they were, when they started taking money. I do not think I had some extra special powers to do this.
Not to pile on, but to be honest, when I clicked this thread, I got the , "Oh god, here we probably go with something silly". I mean we don't have a lot to talk about, so it doesn't matter, but I hope everyone that gives money to these projects doesn't give more than they could shrug away, and realize that they may need to do that.
Saying that, I have contemplated doing $100 for the wife and I, and I can shrug that away (I don't want to shrug it away, but I will not get irate and have a tantrum if I have to). I hope the game gets made, and it is good, as it is one of the few things I am watching and hoping comes out.
Have a happy new year people.
My big problem is crowd funding a game so developers can figure out how to make a 3D game is if it were their first day on the job. Six years of it.
Wheres the experienced developers ?.... Maybe they need to go outside and see how games had advanced already.
Looks no better than EQ2 latest expansions. Yet they seem to struggle.
So now are saying they should go steal the animation code from EQ2 ?
EQ2 and Pantheons climbing system both look the same.
It's starting to look like a stand alone Everquest 2 expansion. Only difference is their taking the long road by learning how to program 3D all over again...... First day one the job.
Brad said in an interview once that it took 11 people 3 (maybe 4 years I think) to produce EQ. Keep in mind, back then EQ had its own proprietary engine.
Pantheon started with Unity as its base, uses a higher level language with more standardized libraries and ease of use IDEs with modular pre-designed core elements and we are still in pre-alpha after 5+ years? I know these days, obsessing over graphics and their interactions is a major thing, but... that should not impede the mechanics of the development? Even if they had to re-write or add new components to the core, it shouldn't be taking this long.
For the time they have spent, their little "completed zone" experience should have been long done and they should be hard focused on content production.
So what gives? Why is EQ (or many other MMOs for that matter) different in what they produced vs their resources? There used to be a time when less people with more difficult tools and much harder challenges were able to produce innovations that set the standards for future generations of gaming, yet today... we have what?
It's because visionary realms has placed graphics ahead of gameplay, instead of gameplay ahead of graphics.
And yes, according to wikipedia, EQ1 took 3 years to develop with a smaller team than VR has.
It's the difference between programmers versus designers. Every fool with a graphics arts diploma can be a designer, but it takes a particular talent to be a coder, programmer, or similar. Writing reasonable AI, server side network concurrency for ~3000 connections, multi-threaded mob support, and similar? non-trivial tasks. NOT supported by default in unity.
Unity is great for creating content. It's a skeleton when it comes to the things that are important, that is, all the persistent multiplayer code that makes the game lag-free, 60-120+FPS, and more.
Years ago, Kilsin mentioned their goal was 30-60 FPS, and I'm like what? Post 2015, and that's the best you can do?
The graphics vs. gameplay criticism has been brought up repeatedly on the official forums since 2014. All of the gains that would have come from Unity they threw away, and stuck with all the worst parts. It's like they were intentionally trying to make the worst possible decisions. Hence all of the negative criticism.
Building a zone, or 9 or 39 of them, in Unity, using Unity landscape generators and even Unity zone generation scripts, is easy. It's also ~free. A weekend designer can produce as many as you want, in as many environmental themes as you want (desert, forest, cold, hot, swamp, lava, snow, etc), in any quantity. Especially when you're willing to use default / free store assets. But they didn't, and here we are, 6 years later, in pre-alpha, with no dates, and they're losing the coders/programmers.
Instead of taking all those potential Unity gains and working to their strengths, they have acted like a "big shop" and said "custom assets!" when that was the worst possible choice, given their budget and donation income. Well of course, you can't have custom assets, shaders, and objects next to free ones, the style is too jarring. So now, we get to enjoy watching 5-10 people do the work of 50 over the next 5 years? Great!
And meanwhile, all the forum white knights defend every delay without considering how long it took to make EQ1. They have had double the time, and have no persistent paid access. /golfclap?
And meanwhile, all the forum white knights defend every delay without considering how long it took to make EQ1. They have had double the time, and have no persistent paid access. /golfclap?
Well, unless you are a developer you probably have no actual insight as to how long and what it takes to make an mmorpg. That's outside of the issue with this game which is they haven't been working on it like gangbusters for 6 years.
To your point I remember (I believe he said this) that Raph Koster (and he lurks sometimes so he can correct me if I'm wrong) made a statement that if Dark Age of Camelot were made today it couldn't be made for what it cost back then. inflation taken into consideration.
People point out that the games "of yore" could be made so obviously something similar can be made with today's tools. Well, I suspect it's more complicated than that. It would be better if actual game developers offered input.
This game failed it's kickstarter (as it should have it was atrocious) and then they made the announcement that they lost team, had to find more people and that the development would continue but much slower.
So what does that mean? We don't know. Delete ignores it because he is apparently obsessed with the facts in his head. Based on very little.
My "armchair developer" guess is that they really didn't ramp up until they got a new team, that the new team was filled with people who didn't have a lot of experience (I remember when talking with them at PAX that one of their guys said that he kept iterating on an area and thought it needed more and then Brad turned to him and essentially said "no, it's fine the way it is."
I think that a lot of stuff kept getting worked on and was never really solidified.
This is not a case of a fully funded game with experienced developers across the board working tirelessly for 6 years. it's most likely a motley group of passionate but uneven developers working as they can work given the money involved. But we won't know as none of us have that info.
I should add, and unlike Delete I've given some money to the project, I don't think it will release. Not a big deal but I very much doubt it will happen.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Tanist said: There used to be a time when less people with more difficult tools and much harder challenges were able to produce innovations that set the standards for future generations of gaming
...it is easy to set "standards" when there are none.
Just because there are pre-built options and many tools available does not necessarily mean lower cost and faster development.
Whether using custom built engine, modyfing an existing one and/or using middleware technology is very tough call since the devil is often in the details you cannot forsee.
"it shouldn't be taking this long" or similar comments are outlandish. You have no idea what challenges they are/were facing or just any insight into a project and it's history.
As far as difference between video game from 1998 and 2020, it is indeed visual assets. They shoots the cost of video games through the roof.
And meanwhile, all the forum white knights defend every delay without considering how long it took to make EQ1. They have had double the time, and have no persistent paid access. /golfclap?
Well, unless you are a developer you probably have no actual insight as to how long and what it takes to make an mmorpg. That's outside of the issue with this game which is they haven't been working on it like gangbusters for 6 years.
To your point I remember (I believe he said this) that Raph Koster (and he lurks sometimes so he can correct me if I'm wrong) made a statement that if Dark Age of Camelot were made today it couldn't be made for what it cost back then. inflation taken into consideration.
People point out that the games "of yore" could be made so obviously something similar can be made with today's tools. Well, I suspect it's more complicated than that. It would be better if actual game developers offered input.
This game failed it's kickstarter (as it should have it was atrocious) and then they made the announcement that they lost team, had to find more people and that the development would continue but much slower.
So what does that mean? We don't know. Delete ignores it because he is apparently obsessed with the facts in his head. Based on very little.
My "armchair developer" guess is that they really didn't ramp up until they got a new team, that the new team was filled with people who didn't have a lot of experience (I remember when talking with them at PAX that one of their guys said that he kept iterating on an area and thought it needed more and then Brad turned to him and essentially said "no, it's fine the way it is."
I think that a lot of stuff kept getting worked on and was never really solidified.
This is not a case of a fully funded game with experienced developers across the board working tirelessly for 6 years. it's most likely a motley group of passionate but uneven developers working as they can work given the money involved. But we won't know as none of us have that info.
I should add, and unlike Delete I've given some money to the project, I don't think it will release. Not a big deal but I very much doubt it will happen.
When I backed this game I had truly hoped they would build out the basics(EQ1 type game) then build upon it over time. A playable group based MMO could've already been released and they could add systems, races, classes over time just as most MMOs do.
Instead it seems feature/system creep, which also negatively impacted Vanguard, has really stifled progress. They spend so much time in their streams, interviews, newsletters talking about returning to the old days of MMOs that a niche community craves, yet are trying to complicate the experience with creative systems that burdened previous games.
Give us open world group based high fantasy with decent class selection, multiple roles including supports, don't overly balance everything around throughput. Add those enviromental interactions, climbing, whatever lore based diary stuff later. In reality clicking on a special looking rock in the world for some lore is nowhere near as important as me getting into the game and slashing/healing/buffing/tanking/nuking some baddies for loot.
I'm thinking of building a private helicopter factory..... I always wanted one for myself so I can buzz around the neighborhood.
Since crowd funding works on "just a basic idea" like Pantheon, I figure I can build a factory to produce them.
Understand I know nothing about helicopters, nothing at all other than it would be cool.
Now If I can start generating a few million dollars by crowed funding maybe I'll start making phone calls to key people that know something about them..... at least I'll make an effort but only if I have millions, or maybe not..... Please support !
Comments
Because of that, they only have a fraction of the money other developers have at their disposal, and as a consequence the development is really slow.
So all this talking about VR deceiving people to raise money, baffles me.
There is the possibility that with Brad gone they might change their strategy and start selling in game items in order to finish the game.
But until that happens, all this talking about them deceiving people it’s a bit unfair.
There are other areas that could be the focus of some criticism, but monetisation is not one of them.
Ethical but not required.
Even now 6 years into a project where people are paying good money as backers are in full development darkness !!!!!...... 5%, 30%, 90% ?
The famous news letter as developers set up to be peoples bible leaves out all KEY INFORMATION people would like to know. Most importantly:
-What this game is all about !
-How much is developed !
-When !
If the game is set in secrecy and full NDA.... Why have a new letter at all ?... What good is trying to be unique to other games in development by keeping the backers informed IF THEIR NOT DOING IT ANYWAY.
Important:
No one has the guts to answer this !
Were the backers aware they will be paying for 3D game testing ?
With the so called experts and experience team, why are they acting like it's their first day on a job and inventing something that's been done years ago.
It's almost like their amazed they can get a character to kick and spin around. I would like to say I'm exaggerating but I'm not !...... seriously !.... And people are paying for this technology.
If you can answer this, i'll eat my shorts
In a crowd funded project, when should they start crowd funding? How should they fund the project until the "Delete" acceptable time to start crowd funding?
Early in some of the video's you could see some of the basic animations which probably came with the software they are using. They were not very good, so you are saying they should have just stuck with those and not done like most all other games and developed unique animations for the game?
You do understand that when they talk about something in the newsletter or video's that does not mean that they whole team is only working on that particular aspect. They probably have one developer that works part time on animations as this is a small team.
Most all games have a NDA, when development is in a state of flux, its of little use to show things that may change the next week as the project progresses.
As far as testing goes, we probably be a lot better off if more of that was done during development, maybe we would see games release with a lot less bugs.
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/482496/going-dark-good-move/p1
Where you ramble on about how going dark is such a good decision. SoL is also a crowd funded game mind you.
Now, all you do is piss and moan about how pantheon doesn't keep their backers up to date and doesn't show any gameplay, you say they cant even tell us what the game is about! Except there is a plethora of information about this game in comparison to others in development. So which is it?
Take a position and stick with it, or sit down and shut up like the rest of us because it is clear you don't know what you actually want or stand for.
They will open up again, I think soon...... Very proficient game and the way their handling it.
By the way... they do a lot for free....FREE
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not to pile on, but to be honest, when I clicked this thread, I got the , "Oh god, here we probably go with something silly". I mean we don't have a lot to talk about, so it doesn't matter, but I hope everyone that gives money to these projects doesn't give more than they could shrug away, and realize that they may need to do that.
Saying that, I have contemplated doing $100 for the wife and I, and I can shrug that away (I don't want to shrug it away, but I will not get irate and have a tantrum if I have to). I hope the game gets made, and it is good, as it is one of the few things I am watching and hoping comes out.
Have a happy new year people.
Wheres the experienced developers ?.... Maybe they need to go outside and see how games had advanced already.
Looks no better than EQ2 latest expansions. Yet they seem to struggle.
So now are saying they should go steal the animation code from EQ2 ?
So this is what happened with the dwemer after the ascension.
Pantheon started with Unity as its base, uses a higher level language with more standardized libraries and ease of use IDEs with modular pre-designed core elements and we are still in pre-alpha after 5+ years? I know these days, obsessing over graphics and their interactions is a major thing, but... that should not impede the mechanics of the development? Even if they had to re-write or add new components to the core, it shouldn't be taking this long.
For the time they have spent, their little "completed zone" experience should have been long done and they should be hard focused on content production.
So what gives? Why is EQ (or many other MMOs for that matter) different in what they produced vs their resources? There used to be a time when less people with more difficult tools and much harder challenges were able to produce innovations that set the standards for future generations of gaming, yet today... we have what?
Different times I guess.
To your point I remember (I believe he said this) that Raph Koster (and he lurks sometimes so he can correct me if I'm wrong) made a statement that if Dark Age of Camelot were made today it couldn't be made for what it cost back then. inflation taken into consideration.
People point out that the games "of yore" could be made so obviously something similar can be made with today's tools. Well, I suspect it's more complicated than that. It would be better if actual game developers offered input.
This game failed it's kickstarter (as it should have it was atrocious) and then they made the announcement that they lost team, had to find more people and that the development would continue but much slower.
So what does that mean? We don't know. Delete ignores it because he is apparently obsessed with the facts in his head. Based on very little.
My "armchair developer" guess is that they really didn't ramp up until they got a new team, that the new team was filled with people who didn't have a lot of experience (I remember when talking with them at PAX that one of their guys said that he kept iterating on an area and thought it needed more and then Brad turned to him and essentially said "no, it's fine the way it is."
I think that a lot of stuff kept getting worked on and was never really solidified.
This is not a case of a fully funded game with experienced developers across the board working tirelessly for 6 years. it's most likely a motley group of passionate but uneven developers working as they can work given the money involved. But we won't know as none of us have that info.
I should add, and unlike Delete I've given some money to the project, I don't think it will release. Not a big deal but I very much doubt it will happen.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Just because there are pre-built options and many tools available does not necessarily mean lower cost and faster development.
Whether using custom built engine, modyfing an existing one and/or using middleware technology is very tough call since the devil is often in the details you cannot forsee.
"it shouldn't be taking this long" or similar comments are outlandish. You have no idea what challenges they are/were facing or just any insight into a project and it's history.
As far as difference between video game from 1998 and 2020, it is indeed visual assets. They shoots the cost of video games through the roof.
Instead it seems feature/system creep, which also negatively impacted Vanguard, has really stifled progress. They spend so much time in their streams, interviews, newsletters talking about returning to the old days of MMOs that a niche community craves, yet are trying to complicate the experience with creative systems that burdened previous games.
Give us open world group based high fantasy with decent class selection, multiple roles including supports, don't overly balance everything around throughput. Add those enviromental interactions, climbing, whatever lore based diary stuff later. In reality clicking on a special looking rock in the world for some lore is nowhere near as important as me getting into the game and slashing/healing/buffing/tanking/nuking some baddies for loot.
I'm thinking of building a private helicopter factory..... I always wanted one for myself so I can buzz around the neighborhood.
Since crowd funding works on "just a basic idea" like Pantheon, I figure I can build a factory to produce them.
Understand I know nothing about helicopters, nothing at all other than it would be cool.
Now If I can start generating a few million dollars by crowed funding maybe I'll start making phone calls to key people that know something about them..... at least I'll make an effort but only if I have millions, or maybe not..... Please support !