Leveling utterly broken

Lord.Bachus

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

Ridelynn

Yeah it’s an issue. It worked ok if you played as the content was released, but it’s aged very poorly. There is a MSQ/leveling overhaul due soon to address it, as another big issue is in pacing the MSQ, particularly after you hit L50 but prior to HW.

Utinni

Ridelynn said:

 particularly after you hit L50 but prior to HW.

You mean that 100+ hours of stuff you gotta do before you can do HW? yeaaaaaaa...

Albatroes

Lord.Bachus said:

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

I'm curious what level you currently are....? and what arc are you in for the story (ARR/HW/SB/ShB)?

Ridelynn

The big hiccup occurs in that long, drawn out period after hitting L50, and all the following content that hits prior to Heavensward (the post-ARR release content).

It was a long period of time, and almost all the content was added in the MSQ. So you have almost 2 years worth of content, where the level cap was 50, and honestly I don't think they were considering XPacs at that point because it was a big gamble if ARR was even going to stick around. 

Once you finally get into HW, the MSQ smooths out considerably. But it's wound up being that you have this longperiod of content (an entire XPacs worth to be honest) where it was all intended to be gear-driven with a static level, but now with the current game character can easily out-level it. 

There's a lot of lore mixed in there, but it's also pretty obvious there's more than it's fair share of filler content as well.  The plan is to strip out all the filler content and smooth the MSQ process out considerably. Not hit that massive speed bump at L50 post-ARR content, which has turned off a lot of prospective players.

Despite however many people do end up saying "HW is worth it, stick with it and slog it out" -- it doesn't change the fact that Post-ARR is a slog, and isn't terribly fun because it seriously hampers the flow of the game. People do end up just hitting that and quitting. But yeah, once you finally break into HW - everything past that is excellent, and eclipses the game in every way up to that point.

I can't find the reference link (I think it was in a Live Letter around the ShB release), I apologize. I think some of it was supposed to coincide with NG+.

Lord.Bachus

Albatroes said:

Lord.Bachus said:

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

I'm curious what level you currently are....? and what arc are you in for the story (ARR/HW/SB/ShB)?

I am currently only at MSQ level 28..

but i have 6 jobs, level 30, 32, 34, 38, 40, 44
and thats only the adventuring jobs, also have many crafters, weaver and alchemist being allready at 50..

I know its just a start... 
i guess things get better at level 50 and beyound..


but since the free trial is only till level 35, 
i guess this is the most important part of the game to get right
as this is where new people get hooked.

Kyleran

Err, for we unfamiliar with this game, MSQ is what, and why is it a problem to out level it?

Albatroes

Lord.Bachus said:

Albatroes said:

Lord.Bachus said:

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

I'm curious what level you currently are....? and what arc are you in for the story (ARR/HW/SB/ShB)?

I am currently only at MSQ level 28..

but i have 6 jobs, level 30, 32, 34, 38, 40, 44
and thats only the adventuring jobs, also have many crafters, weaver and alchemist being allready at 50..

I know its just a start... 
i guess things get better at level 50 and beyound..


but since the free trial is only till level 35, 
i guess this is the most important part of the game to get right
as this is where new people get hooked.

This depends on what you define as "right" given that this is a game that lets you do everything on a single character. The real problem of the game is that progression is tied to the main story without any place-holder skips like you would find in other games (oddly enough even FFXI had place-holder skips). I mean, if its that much of an "issue," you can just level a job up to the msq level and leave it then do other stuff like it appears you already have. That said, the expansions do curb alot in exp simply because there's a lot less arbitrary quests later one and the ARR MSQ experience is supposed to be 'revamped' in 5.3 so I guess we'll see if they get it 'right' then. That aside, I'd probably wait a good bit until finding "complaints" since this one is an odd one to me (and trust me, I have a massive list of issues with this game).

Kyleran said:

Err, for we unfamiliar with this game, MSQ is what, and why is it a problem to out level it?

Main Story Quest = MSQ. I wouldn't really say out leveling it is an issue personally, but since it is tied to character progression, it can feel like a slog. This means if you want to go to the new areas in expansions, you have to complete all the story related stuff first in the previous before you can. Its not like how wow or other games do like when you hit a certain level and can automatically start questing in the next expansion.

Tiller

You slow down as far as XP gain around level 45-48 and by the time you hit 50 level wise you should be caught up story wise. These issues are being addressed in 5.2 with the addition of new msqs I think.

After level 50 just keep grinding through the msq. Honestly the story gets dull after 2.1 as this was a time when they pushed lots of filler content up to the first expansion. It looks like a lot to slog through to get to the first expansion. Take the time to spam duty finder and clear all the hard dungeon levels for poetics to give yourself a break from the slow msq.

Lord.Bachus

Tiller said:

You slow down as far as XP gain around level 45-48 and by the time you hit 50 level wise you should be caught up story wise. These issues are being addressed in 5.2 with the addition of new msqs I think.

After level 50 just keep grinding through the msq. Honestly the story gets dull after 2.1 as this was a time when they pushed lots of filler content up to the first expansion. It looks like a lot to slog through to get to the first expansion. Take the time to spam duty finder and clear all the hard dungeon levels for poetics to give yourself a break from the slow msq.

Thats supposed to be 5.3..

Kyleran

Albatroes said:

Lord.Bachus said:

Albatroes said:

Lord.Bachus said:

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

I'm curious what level you currently are....? and what arc are you in for the story (ARR/HW/SB/ShB)?

I am currently only at MSQ level 28..

but i have 6 jobs, level 30, 32, 34, 38, 40, 44
and thats only the adventuring jobs, also have many crafters, weaver and alchemist being allready at 50..

I know its just a start... 
i guess things get better at level 50 and beyound..


but since the free trial is only till level 35, 
i guess this is the most important part of the game to get right
as this is where new people get hooked.

This depends on what you define as "right" given that this is a game that lets you do everything on a single character. The real problem of the game is that progression is tied to the main story without any place-holder skips like you would find in other games (oddly enough even FFXI had place-holder skips). I mean, if its that much of an "issue," you can just level a job up to the msq level and leave it then do other stuff like it appears you already have. That said, the expansions do curb alot in exp simply because there's a lot less arbitrary quests later one and the ARR MSQ experience is supposed to be 'revamped' in 5.3 so I guess we'll see if they get it 'right' then. That aside, I'd probably wait a good bit until finding "complaints" since this one is an odd one to me (and trust me, I have a massive list of issues with this game).

Kyleran said:

Err, for we unfamiliar with this game, MSQ is what, and why is it a problem to out level it?

Main Story Quest = MSQ. I wouldn't really say out leveling it is an issue personally, but since it is tied to character progression, it can feel like a slog. This means if you want to go to the new areas in expansions, you have to complete all the story related stuff first in the previous before you can. Its not like how wow or other games do like when you hit a certain level and can automatically start questing in the next expansion.

Thanks, the OP makes so much more sense with this knowledge.

Didn't they try to fix this by selling something to skip it in the cash shop?

Lord.Bachus

Rhoklaw said:

FFXIV is one of those games that I think is actually designed for streaming. It's fun to watch but no one really wants to put in the work themselves.

I decided to give it a month, but i can see where you are coming from..  might as well check the streams for the story..

but then i still have 20+ days of sub.    Time enough after that to move back to ESO

Tiller

Lord.Bachus said:

Rhoklaw said:

FFXIV is one of those games that I think is actually designed for streaming. It's fun to watch but no one really wants to put in the work themselves.

I decided to give it a month, but i can see where you are coming from..  might as well check the streams for the story..

but then i still have 20+ days of sub.    Time enough after that to move back to ESO

It levels out if you keep going. Currently halfway through Stormblood and everything is at my level now. There is literally so much to unlock and do in this game it's insane. I never knew how much stuff there was in it, It makes ESO look boring AF.

Combat speeds up to the point where it becomes a juggling act hitting skills, dodging shit and figuring out dungeon boss mechanics, zones become huge and and open and being able to fly really helps. Some quests open up after you gain flight in each zone. The fishing is some next level stuff with the collectables and what not. The deep-sea fishing is a fast way to level to 60 and beyond ( I hit 60 in 3 days of casual fishing).

Do the Grand Company stuff and hunting logs, beast tribes. You will have to go back into a few dungeons you have already done, but you can pick those up solo by choosing undersized party. Low level gear dropped turn in for company seals.

The main-story is excellent to be honest and I hear the next expansion it gets even better. If you can handle some anime tropes honestly it's better than anything ESO, GW2 have been doing for years.

someforumguy

Don't worry about lvl. Dungeons and FATEs sync you if needed.

And after base game story (ARR), you get 100+ main story quests that barely give any xp and prevent you from progressing for quite a while (this made me quit). Your jobs will be stuck in limbo because you won't get new quests for them until you finish that incredibly tedious intermission MSQ before first expansion.

I don't know why they kept them all of those in the game after expansion release, because it makes you feel that you are not getting anywhere. And so many filler quests that are about nothing again. I hate it.

It plays as if someone shot 30 hr of movie and forgot to edit it to get good pacing. This can be said both for ARR and these 100+ main story quests after that. But yeah, expansion main story is better paced. So maybe you can keep going, unlike me

QuarterStack

Tiller said:

Lord.Bachus said:

Rhoklaw said:

FFXIV is one of those games that I think is actually designed for streaming. It's fun to watch but no one really wants to put in the work themselves.

I decided to give it a month, but i can see where you are coming from..  might as well check the streams for the story..

but then i still have 20+ days of sub.    Time enough after that to move back to ESO

"It levels out if you keep going."

Funny how that comes up again and again when discussing FFXIV. Everything "gets better if you keep going"

The leveling gets better if you keep going...
The storyline gets better if you keep going...
The dungeons get better if you keep going...

At least it's consistent considering a favorite rebuttal to criticism by XIV fans is "you didn't play it long enough to have a valid opinion". 

 Currently halfway through Stormblood and everything is at my level now. There is literally so much to unlock and do in this game it's insane. I never knew how much stuff there was in it, It makes ESO look boring AF.

If that's your opinion, that's  your opinion. But I'm really wondering how you quantify that.

Considering FFXIV's aggressive designed-obsolescence, and how quickly content and gear rewards become outdated, relevant options at any given level are limited.

In ESO, content remains relevant throughout, because of level scaling. Gear always drops at your current level (up to CP160 of course), so you can go back into an earlier dungeon for a set of gear, like Fungal Grotto, or Wayrest Sewers, and that gear is going to still be useful to you.

In FFXIV, once you've out-leveled Sastasha or Tam-Tara, there's no reason to do it again. I guess it's no wonder SE puts so little effort into dungeons anymore, considering how quickly they're out-leveled and become obsolete.

And that's just discussing Group Dungeon content. There's a ton of other content options in ESO that don't even exist in FFXIV and, in some cases "couldn't work" according to Yoshida... even though they work just fine in ESO (and in many other MMOs over the years). Public Dungeons being one big example.

Of all the MMOs I've played over the last 20 years or so, FFXIV has had the fewest content options at any given level.

JeroKane

Lord.Bachus said:

The MSQ is leading in the leveling experience..

sadly i now have jobs that have outleveled the MSQ by 10 levels..
if you make the MSQ leading, then dont give people huge xp bonusses on everything they do..

they should make the system so that you can not outlevel your MSQ..
that would solve the problem..

and no, i don’t dislike the MSQ..
i think any true themepark should have a system like this

A bit late to the party, but you don't have to worry much about overleveling the MSQ, since instanced content gets level synced.

So its mostly the overland MSQ quests that get a bit easier.

I love the MSQ storyline through all expacs and for me its the highlight of the game itself.

What they need to address though, is all the MSQ between expacs that contains a lot of filler quests (pointless fedex stuff) in between the main storyline (which made sense at the time this content was released) that they should filter out of the MSQ, so it flows better for people joining the game now and/or rerolling and so fix the pacing.

Especially the MSQ from ARR to Heavensward is actually really good story wise and ends up blending into the MSQ of Heavensward, but due to the long time between ARR and this first expac, this part of the MSQ is huge and full of filler quests that should be filtered out and made into optional side quets that can be used when you want to level up additional jobs later on.