Misconception regarding Players that like Raids is that Raid players like Raids for the Difficulty

MMOExposed

I been wanting to make a thread on this subject for awhile now. Many similar thread discussions have popped up across the MMORPG forum boards around the net, but they never touch on this one major point.  

One common narrative is that Raid Players/Fans enjoy raids for the hardcore difficulty. 

I believe this is a big misconception....
The thing is most MMOs that do "Raid Content" tend to "ONLY" make it hard content. Until fairly recent, the wasnt really non hardcore Raids in MMOs outside a few exceptions here and there. 

World of Warcraft being the most popular MMO with Raid content, pretty much had all its Raid Content on a totally higher difficulty level than its 5 man Dungeon PvE.

But again the narrative that Raid Content must always be Hardcore content and higher difficulty than Party Dungeons is a big misconception. 

I personally am a fan of the "Concept" of Raid Dungeons. By "Concept of Raid Dungeon" I mean PvE Group content built for larger groups of players than the standard smaller party dungeons.  
I want to play large group dungeons with larger number of players than the standard 5 player parties. That itself is what I enjoy about Raids, not the extreme challenge of difficulty/punishing mechanics.           
              
I believe lots of other players are in the same boat on this concept as well. Using Guild Wars 2 as an example. Their Meta Event (which are large group open world boss fights in that game) tend to always be populated, more so than the exclusive Raid Dungeons which are set to a higher difficulty in the game. The lack of players in Raid Dungeon content has slowed the developers motivation to make more raids despite cries from the small vocal Raid Dungeon supporters that remain in the game.  Just cant justify the resources into making raids if less and less people will run them.              
               
But an interesting observation is that Guild Wars 2's Strike Missions (which is pretty much a 10 man PvE instance on Party "5-player" dungeon difficulty.) are doing well population wise compared to Raids. People jump in and run multiples. Its encouraging content.

This is why for me personally, I would love if future MMOs would evolve the concept of "Party Dungeons" by expanding them to a new standard group size of 10 player dungeons while keeping the traditional Party Dungeon Difficulty, and perhaps reusing the new dungeons to have a higher difficulty option for players that like hard PvE. But dont make Raid exclusively higher difficulty than the standard party dungeons. Thats my main request.       
 



Additional Notes from OP:

I believe the main addition to this would be better built in tools for players to use to manage dungeon parties without the need to get these tools through addons. I remember for a while because of the stigma against WoW, many post WoW MMOs refused the allowance of Add-Ons such as Rift and GW2. Both games which had poor UI by default regardless of what content you playing.                 

Amathe

There are players who want to do things that most other players have not, and reap corresponding rewards. It's not about a challenge for its own sake. It's about being the first to down Boss Monster and getting his Sword of Truth, when most people have never even been to that dungeon yet, or are still working on the first mini boss. Put Mount Everest in a game, and some people will want to climb it. Some will want to climb it first.

MMOExposed

Amathe said:

There are players who want to do things that most other players have not, and reap corresponding rewards. It's not about a challenge for its own sake. It's about being the first to down Boss Monster and getting his Sword of Truth, when most people have never even been to that dungeon yet, or are still working on the first mini boss. Put Mount Everest in a game, and some people will want to climb it. Some will want to climb it first.

thats only an issue when there is heavy vertical progression such as Vanilla WoW when all Raid gear was best in slot for PvP and competitive gameplay. In GW2 it doesnt really have that system and has consistently for the last 8 years managed to keep their large scale multiplayer events well populated 24/7 for 8 years now.

Wizardry

OP do yo u even know WHY you like or want bigger parties?
I ask because there is nothing in the content design that needs more parties,you can fight the same Boss with one group if the developer wants it that way.

Maybe i didn't word that properly.in simpler terms,you are not accomplishing ANYTHING for game play /combat/grouping that you cannot achieve with one group of 5/6 players.

I could break down the explanation into more detail but i shouldn't have to.I know of likely EVERY single scenario a game can offer in a group setting,you do NOT ever need a raid.

The reason it exists to create elitism,a stigma because honestly i think 99% of gamer's are superficial and full of ego,they get that ego fed even if it is fake they feel good and continue to pay money to the developer.
Those still on the fence,i think they simply do not understand how game design works,how AI works etc etc.
I have ZERO use for a RAID,petty content to me.Oh to add my opinion on the WHY,imo it is a easily just for the loot.

If that Raid boss did not give loot,NOBODY would do it unless it was a quest,correct or not?

cameltosis

I used to raid for a whole host of reasons:

• For the challenge of needing to play my class to perfection
• For the challenge of working in a large team
• For the social side
• To see the content: raid bosses are often some of the most exciting mobs in game
• For the loot

I am a big fan of having a much broader range of difficulties in raids. I have found that with easier raids, the social side gets much better, but the sense of teamwork diminishes. With harder raids, the social side is less (because you're concentrating more) but the sense of teamwork increases.

Beyond that, most MMORPGs have just been bad at educating their playerbase. If you build a game that's 99% solo and trivial, you need some way to bridge the gap up to hard raids. The jump in difficulty is just too much for a lot of players, not to mention any social anxiety they might feel about teaming up.

Easier group content would be a great on-ramp for players, both in terms of learning their classes but also learning the fundamentals of teamwork within the game.

All that said, I still maintain that a game needs challenging content somewhere, and there should be challenging content for all playstyles - solo, duo, group, raid etc. So, I still want my hard raids!

crankked

People only do GW2 open world bosses because they are rofl easy mode where you could literally drool on the keyboard and get rewards.  You also don't have to talk, coordinate or otherwise associate with other people to get the job done.

Basically, it sounds like you want to do much easier raids and I am guessing want the same reward for completing them as you would for a harder version.  Isn't that what people REALLY want?  Less work, more reward...

Ungood

Screw that.

I mean really.. screw that whole idea.

The last thing MMO's need is 10 player 'dungeons' when groups already have issues with filling 5 person teams.

When people see Raids, they want Raids. When I raided in DDO, it was to Raid, not do candy ass 'dungeon' content with a lot of unnecessary extra people in my group. I mean hell we would short man the raids just to cut down on group clutter.

That is why 5 - 6 man groups work, less dealing with people running off doing their own thing, and the easier the content the more people that are going to be squirreling off doing stupid stuff, like all the imbeciles that are drooling on their keyboards during meta events and world bosses adding to the scaling all the while being carried by everyone else and having the audacity to cry about how easy it is.

The last thing I need is for anyone like that to join a Dungeon Group, and the smaller size groups allow us to pay attention to who is dragging vs who is leading.

But that is what a Raid is about, that all 12 of those people need to be all stars, they need to be putting in their A game, which is why they are made hard and designed as a challenge to all the people that go in. They need to require teamwork of 12 people that know their shit to make them happen, even if they don't talk, they should all know their role going in.

With all that said, GW2 shot themselves in the nuts with raids because it was the wrong kind of game for them to be put into. They Kobblykocked them into the game with the HoT expansion, locked a full set of legendary behind them.. and they did after they spent years establishing their game as an "alternative" to traditional MMO's which netted them a massive population of casual and disenfranchised players at the time.. WTF did they think was going to happen when they turned into a WoW Clone.

Anyway, I have not even bothered to look into these Strike Missions, if you are having fun with them, great, but as I see it, it's just a lame attempt by Anet to try and hurd people into raids, to justify their existence, which I think is just another massive fail waiting to happen.. given the person that came up with them as an idea had quit.. we shall see what the future brings.

iixviiiix

I prefer seasons events instead of fixed dungeon contents .

Something like who was the one killed most of bosses and in shorted time get number 1 and get the first reward

Nilden

I raided a lot in a lot of games.

@Wizardry nailed it.

The only reason I was going was to get loot or help people get loot.

Yes it's cool to be the first, but...

Killing whatever dragon or raid boss for the tenth time...

Difficulty has nothing to do with it. I couldn't care less if it was a total tank and spank like pretty much everything in Velious or Garr in Molten Core with 9 adds and explosions and distance mechanics who dispels the entire raid.

It's all about the loot. A lot of the time bosses were just gear checks.

Honestly your entire premise is flawed. Nobody liked raids for the difficulty. Take away the loot nobody would do these. Just like that other thread where you said up the difficulty bingo mmo back. Difficulty had nothing to do with it. You learned the dance you beat it, it got farmed. Just like difficulty has nothing to do with a game being a MMO.

One of the best games I ever played was City of Heroes and you could completely customize your difficulty from 1-8 player groups, with or without bosses, with or without Arch Villlians, and set the enemy levels from 0-4 above yours.

So if I was playing a low level scrapper I could solo or partner with 1 person in a group with no bosses no arch villian and enemies my level. I could also play on my fire/kin and farm a mission with the difficulty set for a 8 person group with bosses on +4 and rock lvl 54 enemies while powerleveling anyone who I cared to invite. Or you could change the difficulty on the fly if you were just doing radio missions to account for group make up. Like say if the tank or healer left you could lower the difficulty to accommodate the situation or raise it if one joined.

TL;DR

People don't like raids for difficulty and difficulty has nothing to do with a game being a MMORPG.

Edit:

Just FYI I had to kill Phinny 13 times before I got my wizard epic in EQ.

Akulas

Just to tick off an achievement these days which is sad because I used to like raiding 10 or so years ago.

cheyane

People raid for different reasons. Most just for the loot. For many they would never step into a raid if not for the loot. Others enjoy of organising and bossing people around.

I have always been a grunt from my days of raiding in Everquest, WoW and FFXI and FFXIV. I've hated it the most in WoW because of the resource gathering you have to do before the raid.

I follow instructions, stand here, go there, do this, do that, watch video and dance around on one leg so I don't make mistakes. With the exception of Everquest where I was a wizard and I played Red Mage/White Mage in FFXI in every other raid I was a healer. So my job was just to heal or debuff or cleanse mainly and I just did it and I cannot honestly say I liked raiding at all. In fact I have to say I disliked it far more than a 5 man group. In a 5 man group I felt my contribution was crucial and more personalized. My presence was important. Even when I was the main tank healer in a raid I never felt the contribution like I do in a 5 man group. It's just like a parade you know you're one of the performers. It isn't at all like a 5 piece band playing at the local pub.

I don't raid any more even for the loot. I just don't want to do it any longer. 

I don't speak for other people I am just talking about myself and my preferences. Whatever reasons people raid are their own and I don't think developers really get that in their designs. They usually end up creating content for a certain type of raider.

I cannot pinpoint when it was exactly I began to realise I have no wish to raid any more but the only game I truly enjoyed raiding was Everquest. Every other game and especially WoW has been horrible. I even quit when I found it stressful. I just stopped playing the game altogether because of raiding. Why put myself through that and get points docked for arriving late, even when I told them I cannot make it on time. No, we need you to heal then they dock my points which is fair since the others were there on time. I just don't see the appeal to be honest of raiding.

So in conclusion I don't agree with you at all.

Amaranthar

I hate the concept of fixed party sizes. 
Let the Dungeon spawn extra MOBs.
Let the Dungeon spawn tougher MOBs in the next room. 
Just don't control me and my friends/guildies (and even other players that show up at the same time) like that. 

iixviiiix said:

I prefer seasons events instead of fixed dungeon contents .

Something like who was the one killed most of bosses and in shorted time get number 1 and get the first reward

I love GM Events. Especially ones that run through a story arc where the PLayers figure out where to go for that final massive battle. 
Any number can show up. They may not be enough, and lose, leaving it for another day to fight for victory. 
Or they may be too much for the MOBs, where more spawn can take care of that to make it a challenge. 

Make it a war to save humankind. Multiple battles, leading up to a culmination of events. 

And the plot can even thicken beyond that. 

Iselin

The best raids happen in good RvR PvP. Very large groups are the norm there.

The closest PvE has ever gotten to that was in Rift when there were zone invasions.

Best of all, both of those things happened out in the open world at all hours of the day and night. No calendar appointments to do private instances required.

Scot

I think diversity of content is a must as long as some content does not deter players from trying others. So by all means have some mini dungeons on trainer wheels to prepare players for big dungeons or indeed just as good content. Lotro had two or three man mini dungeons but they did little to prepare you for raids they were great content in their own right.

Aeander

I just like having a small group social experience. Something that requires teamwork.

My opinion on raids is my opinion on everything else. It doesn't need to be difficult. I don't even want it to be difficult. I want it to be just enough to be engaging.

MMOExposed

crankked said:

People only do GW2 open world bosses because they are rofl easy mode where you could literally drool on the keyboard and get rewards.  You also don't have to talk, coordinate or otherwise associate with other people to get the job done.

Basically, it sounds like you want to do much easier raids and I am guessing want the same reward for completing them as you would for a harder version.  Isn't that what people REALLY want?  Less work, more reward...

Well people consistently do those meta events despite the fact that there really aren't any rewards to doing so. It's just fun to do. You don't get new high ranking gear from it most of the time and you don't get new skins. It's done because it's fun. And as I said, you see players continue to do this content probably for same reason I do it. Because it's large group content that isn't based on some hard core difficulties and I always know there's going to be people there when I show up. 

MMOExposed

Ungood said:

Screw that.

I mean really.. screw that whole idea.

The last thing MMO's need is 10 player 'dungeons' when groups already have issues with filling 5 person teams.

(I am on mobile an need to break down my responses into smaller post later when I get to my PC) 

See that's the thing. Thats an issue of small group dungeons and Raids, since Raids have higher min/max difficulties which requires gear check and skill check, it limits the number of players per tank/Healer.

See its natural in a system of the DPS/Tank/Healer holy Trinity for there to always be more DPS players than there are tanks and healers. So why limit the number of DPS per tank in a Dungeon to 3 DPS per tank/Healer?
That only amplify the disproportionate numbers of Tanks to DPS.

So why not have 8 DPS per Tank/Healer for the standard party dungeon size?
This means for every Tank in the game, there are 8 other DPS players that can join in on the fun. That's a huge bonus for grouping.

 Again we talking about Party Dungeons here and Party Dungeon level difficulty. No need for the same Min/Max that is done for hardcore Raids, because these aren't hardcore Raids. They 10 player Party Dungeons. 

kitarad

If you have 8 DPS and a tank won't the burden on the healer be far more onerous. Does not look like a good idea.

MMOExposed

kitarad said:

If you have 8 DPS and a tank won't the burden on the healer be far more onerous. Does not look like a good idea.

No. Because you could always do what Vanilla Rift (don't play Rift anymore so no idea if it changed) they had a DPS support role which pretty much functioned as a odd healer but through DPS. Can slot any player into that role and pretty much help support the healer and tank off of the most popular role (DPS). Was a smart move back then. 

kitarad

It does not really address the elephant in the room though. The one where the majority of the players don't really want to play a healer or tank. I far prefer the way City  of Heroes / Villains handled it. They allowed content to be taken by groups that consisted of debuffers or crowd control or shields or heals. You didn't need mandatory classes or a parceling out of roles. People handled the content with the classes they had. Of course people still yelled for tanks and healers but the content could be handled by a variety of classes without those two roles. That was what made that game so much fun.

Kyleran

MMOExposed said:

Ungood said:

Screw that.

I mean really.. screw that whole idea.

The last thing MMO's need is 10 player 'dungeons' when groups already have issues with filling 5 person teams.

(I am on mobile an need to break down my responses into smaller post later when I get to my PC) 

See that's the thing. Thats an issue of small group dungeons and Raids, since Raids have higher min/max difficulties which requires gear check and skill check, it limits the number of players per tank/Healer.

See its natural in a system of the DPS/Tank/Healer holy Trinity for there to always be more DPS players than there are tanks and healers. So why limit the number of DPS per tank in a Dungeon to 3 DPS per tank/Healer?
That only amplify the disproportionate numbers of Tanks to DPS.

So why not have 8 DPS per Tank/Healer for the standard party dungeon size?
This means for every Tank in the game, there are 8 other DPS players that can join in on the fun. That's a huge bonus for grouping.

 Again we talking about Party Dungeons here and Party Dungeon level difficulty. No need for the same Min/Max that is done for hardcore Raids, because these aren't hardcore Raids. They 10 player Party Dungeons. 

For all you folks who are "new" to the genre, DAOC had 8 person groups as a standard and a lot more roles to fill them with.

As I recall Lineage 2 had nine person groups as well and DAOC briefly toyed with the idea of increasing group size to ten as the number of classes continued to grow.

WOW and the many theme parks which came after it started what I feel is a downward trend to smaller 4 and 5 person groups, presumably to make their more  scripted content easier to balance.

These larger groups did provide the benefits you noted,  more flexibility in composition, especially in PVP, but even in PVE the 1st 3 spots usually went to a tank, pure healer and crowd control, the other 5 slots could vary widely depending on realm, circumstance, and player's skill.

MMOExposed

kitarad said:

It does not really address the elephant in the room though. The one where the majority of the players don't really want to play a healer or tank. I far prefer the way City  of Heroes / Villains handled it. They allowed content to be taken by groups that consisted of debuffers or crowd control or shields or heals. You didn't need mandatory classes or a parceling out of roles. People handled the content with the classes they had. Of course people still yelled for tanks and healers but the content could be handled by a variety of classes without those two roles. That was what made that game so much fun.

Like mentioned, it is natural for the number of Tanks and Healers to vastly outnumber the number of DPS players in the Holy Trinity. 

The mistakes MMOs made like WoW and Rift, was they instead of increasing the number of DPS players per Tank/Healer, they instead try to increase the number of overall Tanks and Healers. That never works because as stated, its natural for the number of DPS to vastly outnumber the number of Tanks and Healers. Thats nothing abnormal. People fit better into certain roles which is why they play that role. In large group FPS games like MAG/ Planetside2/ Battlefront2 I mainly played Healers/Support. Its what I enjoyed doing. 

The solution is clear. 8 DPS per 1 Tank/Healer aka 10man Party Dungeons. 

So lets say a server has 1000 players, and 20 players are Tanks on that server and 20 players are Healers and rest of population DPS (960 players). 

With the current standard 5 man party dungeon concept, only 100 of those 1000 players will get to do these 5 man dungeons at a time. Thats 900 players LFG.

--------------------

Now under the same scenario we change the party size from 5 man to 10 man party dungeons. Thats 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 8 DPS. Thats now 200 players get to do dungeon content at a time compared to the 100 players with the 5-player size standard. Thats 800 players in the LFG instead of 900 at any given time. Increasing the frequency of grouping up. 

Ungood

MMOExposed said:

Ungood said:

Screw that.

I mean really.. screw that whole idea.

The last thing MMO's need is 10 player 'dungeons' when groups already have issues with filling 5 person teams.

(I am on mobile an need to break down my responses into smaller post later when I get to my PC) 

See that's the thing. Thats an issue of small group dungeons and Raids, since Raids have higher min/max difficulties which requires gear check and skill check, it limits the number of players per tank/Healer.

See its natural in a system of the DPS/Tank/Healer holy Trinity for there to always be more DPS players than there are tanks and healers. So why limit the number of DPS per tank in a Dungeon to 3 DPS per tank/Healer?
That only amplify the disproportionate numbers of Tanks to DPS.

So why not have 8 DPS per Tank/Healer for the standard party dungeon size?
This means for every Tank in the game, there are 8 other DPS players that can join in on the fun. That's a huge bonus for grouping.

 Again we talking about Party Dungeons here and Party Dungeon level difficulty. No need for the same Min/Max that is done for hardcore Raids, because these aren't hardcore Raids. They 10 player Party Dungeons. 

I get what you are trying to say, I want you to know that. I really get where you are coming from and what you are trying to say and do with this.

But as I said above about unnecessary additional members of the group.

In GW2, Raids are basically a flat up DPS challenge, where all 8 of the DPS players are needed.

Notice what happened when they started to math out the raids, charted the DPS, and figured out how many were actually needed vs how many they could have in a group. Suddenly, since they didn't need all 8 extra DPS (even in a Raid) they could sell spots in the raids because they could carry people, which, for some led to them seeing how few they would get away with, or how poorly outfitted they could be, etc, etc. But then again Anet openly said the disparity in DPS between an Average player and Hardcore in a multiple of ten.

Regardless, here is the thing, as players discover they don't need those extra DPS players, they won't wait for them, in some cases, they won't even want them, as that just invites bad players to freeload on their party, and no one likes to carry dead weight, even if they can (unless they are getting paid extra for it apparently)

I mean, I don't know you. maybe you love the idea of large groups or whatever, or maybe you have a large pool of friends to play these games with, so the idea of all 10 of you getting together for some casual dungeon fun sounds great.

But a lot of players don't, especially when it comes to Pugs. I mean, go read the posts about Pugs, it's common knowledge that often they barely talk to each other, and for the most part, even in more casual runs, there is an expectation to know what you are doing, so we can go in, and get it done, and move on to something else.

But even in Pug groups, if they don't think they need the extra people, they are not going to wait for them.

Again using GW2, when it comes to things like T1 fractals or even the easier dungeons, 2 or 3 person groups are good to go, and they will just head on in, if more join great, if not.. they just short man it.

So, tossing in a bunch of extra unnecessary DPS into the group, eventually becomes exactly that, unnecessary, and as the players that know the content grow, they will know how many they realistically get it done with, and go with that, as opposed to waiting for the group to fill, as the more unneary players that get added to the group, the higher the chance you will get players that just want a carry.

You can ask all the people that do world bosses about that, where they are working to get the event done, and handle the scaling, while they have "That Guy" that is running around naked drooling on their keyboard, not doing anything of value, crying about how easy it is.

Amaranthar

This is what you get for accepting the PM's (puppet master's) strings. 

cameltosis

MMOExposed said:

Ungood said:

Screw that.

I mean really.. screw that whole idea.

The last thing MMO's need is 10 player 'dungeons' when groups already have issues with filling 5 person teams.

(I am on mobile an need to break down my responses into smaller post later when I get to my PC) 

See that's the thing. Thats an issue of small group dungeons and Raids, since Raids have higher min/max difficulties which requires gear check and skill check, it limits the number of players per tank/Healer.

See its natural in a system of the DPS/Tank/Healer holy Trinity for there to always be more DPS players than there are tanks and healers. So why limit the number of DPS per tank in a Dungeon to 3 DPS per tank/Healer?
That only amplify the disproportionate numbers of Tanks to DPS.

So why not have 8 DPS per Tank/Healer for the standard party dungeon size?
This means for every Tank in the game, there are 8 other DPS players that can join in on the fun. That's a huge bonus for grouping.

 Again we talking about Party Dungeons here and Party Dungeon level difficulty. No need for the same Min/Max that is done for hardcore Raids, because these aren't hardcore Raids. They 10 player Party Dungeons. 

I've talked about this very issue in the past, on numerous occasions, and my feelings run along similar lines.

In SWTOR, the group size was 4, so 50% of the players had to be tanks or healers.

In 5 person groups, 40% need to be tanks or healers

In LotRO, it had 6 person groups, so only 33% needed to be tanks or healers

WAR is the worst culprit: it's 6mans require 2 tanks, 2 healers and 2 dps. 66% of players need to be a tank or healer!

There are numerous solutions to the problem:

1) Like you suggest, increase group size without increasing tank/healer numbers, thus lowering the percentage of critical classes required. A 10man group with 8 dps sounds like a good ratio. Content would need to change a bit, im assuming less splash damage so the healer can heal everyone ok.

2) Make tanks and healers more fun to play. This is the best solution imo, just make these roles more enjoyable. Historically, the main issue has been that leveling a tank or healer was just too slow and boring. Devs now tend to give all roles a DPS build to even it out a bit, but there is still an issue getting players to switch to tank/healer role in groups.

3) Make roles less prominent. This is the GW2 approach, spreading the abilities out to everyone so you dont need dedicated roles, players are mostly self-sufficient (in theory). Certainly has it's benefits, but tends to reduce the need for good teamwork....but that can be overcome with better content design or just designing more interdependencies outside of roles.

4) Add more depth to the mechanics to allow for emergent gameplay. I dislike the trinity, I find it too limiting. But, I love roles! So, I want more - CC, debuff, buff, off-tank etc. If the system has been designed with enough depth, then it allows for emergent gameplay which can overcome other limitations. For example, in LotRO I would regularly do group content without a tank or without a healer, sometimes without both! This was only possible by making use of extensive debuffing, off-healing, off-tanking and some creative tactics, but it was possible (and also a hell of a lot of fun!). Doing so required more player skill, so not an option for everyone, but I loved the fact that if we couldn't form a "traditional" group, it didn't mean the end of our night.

APThug

People do raid for slightly different reasons. But a lot of the time its mainly for the rewards or because its just fun to do. Raids in my mind are exciting challenges.

When I play MMO's I like to be social and make new friends. Im always on discord playing games with my friends or talking to them in-game. Challenging content like raids or dungeons are a great way for me and my friends to play PvE content together. Once i know how everything on how that instance works, I go back and re-do them, just because they are fun or i do them again to help out my friends. I enjoy this a lot, and im not alone in this kind of thinking.

I have a few friends who dont like raiding either, but they like playing the game with me. I love seeing my friends grow and progress. So i encourage them to do more difficult content with me, id explain to them how they can help and put them at ease on how all the mechanics work. We all have a pretty good time, and they feel more encouraged to do them again.