Why is replacement of gear bad? I'm not saying it would be frequent. But there is a limit to how many times something can be repaired, depending on the frequency of use and the amount of punishment you force it to endure. It also depends, of course, on well it was crafted in the first place. And/or the strength of the magic which enchanted it or the deity who blessed it.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I do want the system to be developed in such a way that will allow the Developers to simply manage the game world rather than direct it. I'm just saying that they would have ways, if necessary, of helping to maintain the balance of power in the world.
Here's some ideas I had a few days ago. Please read and let me know what you think.
Only a sandbox MMORPG with some form of horizontal progression (in which not everyone is able to be an adventurer or a hero [and in which players are also able to be criminals or villains]) could possibly have the potential of being a true role-playing game.
1) A true rpg can have some form of limited vertical progression, but it has to be more realistic. Because the most skilled warrior/martial artists in history still had/have their limits. So the most mobs or noobs a top tier player should be able to defeat single-handedly would probably be between 10-20. Because no matter how powerful a person is, they're still gonna run out of stamina/energy eventually. And even the greatest warrior can stumble on a rock, slip in mud, or have the sun glare in his or her eyes at just the wrong moment.
2) There could be levels in skills, abilities, and talents as opposed to class/character levels. There could be ranks as well, but they would be social, economic, political, and military ranks, etc. Now, a deity (played/controlled by a GM/Game Master might intervene in a battle and choose to empower your character to defeat more mobs or other player-characters at once. However, if there is more than one deity in the game world, than an opposing deity/GM could also choose to empower your enemies in a battle. Opposing deities/GMs might even choose to empower both sides in a battle. Not saying that is necessary in a game world, but it could make things more interesting. (OR the deity could send his or her own avatar or supernatural subordinates to directly aid a player-character in battle or with some non-combat ordeal/quest.)
3) When the GM is offline, then a particular deity would be controlled by AI. And, of course, your character would have to perform certain tasks/duties/actions in order to gain the favor of their chosen deity or deities. But other actions could also gain them the ire of another deity or other deities.
4) Your character could also gain/lose favor points with different factions. These could be political entities as well as guilds/mercenary companies/bandit gangs/monster hordes, etc. If your character gains enough favor with a certain faction, this would lower prices for items in their settlements, reduce costs for training, grant access to special buildings and NPCs, as well as unlock the possibility for them to send NPCs to aid your character in battle. However, by gaining favor with one faction or performing certain actions, your character would also gain disfavor with another faction. So other factions could become so angry with your character that they might send out assassins or other such NPCs to atttack your character. And your characters would have a general level of renown/infamy based on the actions he or she chooses to perform and decisions he or she chooses to make. There could be player-controlled factions as well as AI controlled-factions. However, just the GMs, the Player-controlled Factions would have rules as well as penalties for breaking those rules. So not everything would be up to the whim of a particular GM or Player (or group of Players).
(...to be continued...)
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
5) Of course, the different Deities and Factions
would have limited resources, so they couldn't constantly aid or seek to
harm player-characters. Priority would be given to those with the
highest favor or disfavor with the particular Deity or Faction, but a
certain amount of resources would be saved and allocated to those with
less favor or disfavor. And there could be a cool-down timer so that an
individual PC (player-character) wasn't constantly being aided or
thwarted. Particular priority would be given to those PC's who had
betrayed a deity or faction, of course. Again, in games with multiple
deities/supernatural beings/highly evolved beings/advanced alien
races/sentient AI, etc., they would not have unlimited
resources/abilities/powers. They would not be omniscient, omnipotent,
or omnipresent. A deity with infinite attributes could only exist in a
game world that was created (in game terms) by that singular being.
However, that probably wouldn't work too well for an MMORPG.
6)
Player Characters (and even Mobs?) could have an option to request aid
from a deity or faction. However, the deity or faction could reply yes,
no, or wait. A deity could be prayed to anywhere, though an invocation
might be more effective in a temple, on a feast/holy day, and/or after
performing some sort of ritual or sacrifice. A PC would have to
actually visit an PC or NPC with authority in the faction from which he
or she was requesting aid. Being granted an audience could take some
time (might not always be immediate) as those in authority are often
busy with duties or might be holding an audience with other PCs (or
perhaps even NPCs) at the time. And the cool-down timer for receiving
aid would be longer after requesting aid as opposed to receiving aid
without requesting it.
Aid from a deity or faction could also
come in the form of time-limited boons or blessings OR gifts of
money/items OR being allowed to borrow an legendary weapon, piece or set
of armor, or a fabled artifact for a limited amount of time.
7)
Furthermore, a faction with which a PC has favor might displease a
particular deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity as well.
OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points)
might do something which pleases the deity, thereby reducing a PC's
favor with the deity. OR A faction with which a PC has favor might
please a particular deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the
deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative
faction points) might do something which displeases the deity, thereby
increasing a PC's favor with the deity.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Gonna be honest.. it does not appeal to me, as playing a game to kiss a deities ass, is not really a sake point. Now, kicking their ass would be a better sale point.
Just me tho.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I read the first two paragraphs, then skipped to the end. It's not like I've never played MUDs before. Not what I want.
not saying ya haven't played any MUDs... but there are no other MUDs like DragonRealms. it is, was, and always has been one of the most intricate and immersive games i've ever played, and even 20 years after it's prime it still holds near the TOP of most MUD population charts (i realize that's not saying much when you think of MUD populations, but it's still impressive in it's own way)
but if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. too bad. it hit so many notes you were after. even the "players can change the world" note to some degree
Well, who's to say that your character couldn't eventually challenge one of the gods or even all of the gods? It would depend on the choices your character makes and the actions he or she performs. Certain progression paths could be unlocked by a particular set of choices and actions. Levels of Renown and Infamy would also play a role. But it would have to be constructed in such a way so that it was not obvious and not easily repeatable. Or it might be better if requirements changed after one player unlocked a certain path. That way the hidden progression path couldn't be posted online for everyone to follow.
I'm thinking that Renown or Infamy would be regional. The world would be divided into different regions. Perhaps only one, two, or three regions would be present when the game launched, with new regions (even continents) added over time. A player character would be renowned in a certain region if he or she had good (positive) reputation with most of the factions in that region. But a player character would be infamous if he or she had mostly bad (negative) reputation in that region.
Some regions might be mostly of good or lawful alignment, so a player that chose to play as a good/lawful person would probably be renowned there. However, that same player might be infamous in a region that was mostly evil/unlawful/chaotic. And vice versa for a character that chose to play as evil. Of course, some factions would be lawful good, some lawful evil. Others might be neutral or chaotic good. Certain monster tribes (and therefore their settlements) would be chaotic evil. Though there's also the possibility that a region could have both good & evil factions, so a player character might find it difficult to gain a general level of renown or infamy there. But the player character could still be loved or hated (or anywhere in between) by each individual faction.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I mean really depends on the MMORPG. I'd say most don't need it because there is no depth to the game except combat.
I mean, do I want to eat/drink just to survive. If you had an economy based on eating and eating certain things helped with different aspects of playing then sure.
Same with weight. If there is a trade and travel based around weight then it would make sense.
Realism should have compelling game play mechanics around it or it's just in the way. Most themeparks are based around solo or gangbang combat. Do you really need to be hungry while you FedEx and commit genocide?
I might look into it. Actually, I might have even tried it before. I don't remember.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
You're right. The game should be designed so that the realism is necessary and compelling, not just a mild distraction or annoying waste of time. I think consequences and penalties play a role in that. For example, in real life, brushing our teeth may be boring, but we have to do it if we want to keep our teeth from falling out.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
What would be wrong with having an MMORPG that was also a survival game? They already are in a way. Lots of ways to die in MMORPGs. We'd just be adding more ways to die. Which, I believe, would increase the tension, challenge, immersion, and fun.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I've been immersed in many games, both single player and mmo. Runes of Magic, WoW for maybe a few weeks, Everquest 2, Neverwinter, BDO for a week or two, FFXIV for maybe a week or two. I've also been immersed in many single player rpgs. rts. and turn-based strategy war games. Even a few 3D action/adventure games when I was younger. Like Resident Evil and this kinda cool 3D Megaman game for PS1. But that years and years ago. I don't play those kind of games anymore. Perhaps I get immersed before I have a very vivid imagination that makes up for whatever is lacking in certain games. As far as graphics or whatever. I also don't mind role-playing a bit. Though it's difficult to find other people that role-play as well. Maybe because I don't usually play on role-playing servers.
Anyway, those MMORPGs that I was immersed in for a few weeks to several months had at least some decent features here and there. But obviously they all had major problems that eventually caused to grow sick and tired of them. Horrible repetitive End Game grind is almost always one of the major factors. However, more realism in a game usually extends the amount of time I am able to entertain myself in the game even when I grow tired of killing mobs, questing, or w/e. The more ways my character can interact with the world, the more real and immersive it feels to me. And therefore I will spend more time playing it for a longer period.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Encumbrance can work. There are even ways to make it entertaining.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
You probably get more competition from other genre. Just like there probably isn't much builder mmorpg because minecraft took most of the players.
I think survival will become what MMORPG could have become. Player base is much more accepting of crap than MMORPG. The loss factor MMORPG lack. The survival genre definitely could be one that blurs into MMORPG domain.
Eating and Drinking, in Dungeons and Dragons Online.
DDO is a game where players do not instant heal unless they beat the quest, so if you fail a quest, you either depart after being slain and return to your Bind Point (Typically in a Tavern or Inn) with `1 Hp, whereupon you need to Eat/Drink to recover life, or cast healing spells, and then need to eat/drink to recover Mana.
Or you recall out of the quest with whatever HP/Mana you had left, and head off to the tavern to heal up.
Higher level guilds, with airships, have fast healing as part of their top deck feature, so that has done away with a lot of the need to hang in the taverns and heal. But it used to be quite the common thing in DDO.
Just wanted to put that out there for anyone trying DDO now wondering about that change.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I want a hybrid Sandbox MMORPG/Survival/Real-Time Strategy Game with PVE/PVP. Fair and fun PVP.
In order for PVP to be fair and fun:
1) The game can absolutely not be P2W. Subscription would probably be best, but you could also develop a system that was free-to-play with the option to pay to progress faster. This would be necessary for those that have limited time to play. (Because they jobs and can't play that much, which is why they have money to pay in the first place.)
AND/OR the game would be F2P for individual players for their first 2-4 months of play. After that, they would have to start paying a subscription. Unless they earned a subscription by playing well. 3 Categories - Most Skilled Players (mechanically speaking), Best Teachers/Guides/Mentors, Best Role-Players. The top tier of these three categories could actually be payed to play. Required to play 40 hours a week with no set schedule. Of course, if a player excelled in 2 categories or more, he or she would receive a higher salary. But if a player was independently wealthy or simply didn't want a chance to earn a subscription or be paid to play, he or she could opt-out. Though he or she could opt-in again at anytime. (Some people just might not want the possible added pressure while playing. Or they would just rather pay and contribute to the further development of the game.)
2) There must be limitations, penalties, and consequences for choices and actions. Consequences can be good or bad. Of course certain choices and actions would also earn benefits. This would depend on the nature of the faction or deity was trying to earn favor (faction points). But you have to read through a few of my posts in response to Ungood in order to more fully grasp what I'm saying here.
3) Vertical progression must be limited (& more realistic). Most of the progression (skill-wise) would be horizontal. Atrophy and regression should also be a factor. Just as in real life, if an attribute, skill, ability, or talent is not used much, its strength can decrease over time.
4) Gear bonuses must be limited. There must be a definite ceiling on how much gear, equipment, and items can increase the power of a character. Skills, abilities, and talents (plus the skill of the player) should be just as important or probably more important than gear.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Cool. I didn't remember that. I've almost hit lvl 3 as a paladin and haven't died yet. Hopefully get a chance to play some more today.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Thinking about realism do we ever consider how much we are carrying while we are fighting? I mean most MMOs I have about 10 backpacks full of heavy equipment and other stuff. Realistically there is no way I could fight anything. Some games in the past have tried to do weight limits but as far as Iknow it has never worked.
FO 76 (not a MMO I realize) does a good job incorporating carry weights into the game, providing players meaningful choices between fitting for maximum load, damage or stealth.
My max str power armor build let's me carry huge loads, perfect for a PVE scavager but I have to give some combat capability in order to carry 8 heavy guns at a time.
Rifle builds have no such option but many still play them due to their WTF crit shot capacity, which can drop a NPC which I'm pouring 50 rounds into.
Travel times in EVE served a definite strategic purpose and could be circumvented but only at a cost, almost always having limitations and provisos.
Everything for good reason, not just to waste a player's time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've always been a supporter of a Justice system that has no work-arounds or escape clauses, something we have never seen in any game. Such things like "prison, with escapes" don't work.
I agree. Those players aren't in it for RP. They "play to crush" and will find a way if one's available. GMs cannot keep up with them, not even close. The players need the tools, that work, to stop them on a permanent basis, by giving them losses that they feel harshly enough that they will stop.
Keep one thing in mind, CCP found out those playing to crush were a substantial portion of their paying customers so it is a neverending task to maintain a proper balance.
Also, most tools devs have tried to put in players hands end up being better manipulated (or circumvented) by those who they were designed to control vs those they were intended to help.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The game was City of Heroes. I had gone down into the underground sewer system to fight bad guys. You hear insects buzzing, and water dripping and sloshing. Otherwise it is as silent as a tomb. Very creepy.
In real life I was not wearing a shirt ...
As I started down the sewer tunnel, an in game fly buzzed while a real life fly also buzzed and landed on my bare real life back.
I admit it. I screamed. A very unmanly scream at that.
Total immersion.
There's your problem, no shirt? I always game wearing full kevlar body armor.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Are you saying that Game Developers and Game Masters have no power or ability to subtly change the course of a game world (and even individual player actions) through built-in penalties, limitations, and consequences, as well as periodic events? NPCs, mobs, and Game Master-controlled characters (such as deities perhaps) can also be used to maintain balance and keep an online world from spiraling totally out of control.
Not only that, Game Developers can actually <gasp> hire professional gamers and role-players to help maintain order and balance in a persistent, dynamic, virtual world.
Well, I see you are passionate about this idea you have.
But Here is a Catch 22 for you to ponder.
What is the point of giving players the ability to affect the future of the game if I (The Game Developer) have to continually go and change things to keep the game going in the direction I wanted it to go in to start with.
Ideally, with the game system you want, where players control the future, a Developer would need to be hands off, having no script or direction planned, and ultimately giving players a blanket environment and the tools to work from there.
They would be free to make their own Heaven or Hell as were.
That is really the only real way to make it so that players actions affect the game both large and small.
See, ideally, if things can't spiral out of control by the actions of players, then the players really had no control to start with.
That is the Catch 22.
Now if Gamers were given the chance to make their own Cesspool or Utopia.. what do you think would really happen ?
I think there is a middle ground. One where the GMs maintain control but allow the players to make change, sort of rolling with the flow.... but within reason.
Edit: I do see your point on PvP though. Wide open PvP games will always have this problem unless there are solid rules supporting the "innocents." We've seen how PvPers take over game worlds by driving others away.
I've always been a supporter of a Justice system that has no work-arounds or escape clauses, something we have never seen in any game. Such things like "prison, with escapes" don't work.
Not that it couldn't work, but ideally, if the Company needs to hire a bunch of staff to keep the masses in line, like police, it would quickly become a question of the value of having those features exist in the first place. This also has an effect on size and complexity as well, the more the Devs build, the less fluid the game becomes and less they can respond to what Players do.
I would think, that if they planned to open the doors and let players "Do what you will" they would be far better off just giving them the tools to do whatever, and then step back and watch the insanity unfold.
I mean, given want went down with New World, when veteran devs were surprised to find gank squads formed in their open world PvP Game, I don't think any of them are really ready for a truly open world shit storm that players could unleash.
I mean ideally the smaller scale the game the better this would work, like Emulators, but that also means that the smaller scale the game, the less profitable they are, so less money, to be a solid AAA game, and more a "Labor of Love" by a small team.
I agree. Those players aren't in it for RP. They "play to crush" and will find a way if one's available. GMs cannot keep up with them, not even close. The players need the tools, that work, to stop them on a permanent basis, by giving them losses that they feel harshly enough that they will stop.
Lets say for discussion we took a game like Trove, the Voxel system lends itself well custom crafting and world building, after all, put in Full Loot Perma Death so that dying has some serious consequences, and as opposed to starting hub, players just get tossed into a massive randomly generated open world, where they can build whatever they want from there on out.
Now this is a simple system, but we are dealing with a foundation game. For the sake of world building, we could add complexity, like putting in skill ranks for weapons/gear. have a whole skill tree and system for casting spells, a whole system of spell crafting, where players can invent their own spells. Since the world is Voxel, all weapons and armor are made up of blocks, so all that is custom made and designed as well. Perhaps a whole complex crafting system of alloys and the like that players can experiment with, as well as put in a whole farming system, animal husbandry, a system to tame or catch animals to raise them... I mean all the rules and systems would be what the Devs work on. So there is really no limit to how far down the rabbit hole of systems we could.
Kinda like how TSR made rules, and let the players go have fun building and interacting with their own worlds.
Ideally, with that kind of game, the Devs would just focus on the systems, making sure they work, perhaps adding to them, maybe tweaking them to make them work better as time went on, etc. But.. the game world itself.. what happens in the world.. is fully up to the players.
The could build vast skyscrapers and cities of light or charred blackened wastelands, that would be up to them.
If we were to make something like that.. how many would want to play.. knowing what your game world would be like going forward is entirely up to the players.
Would you play that game?
Aren't there already Minecraft servers much as you have described?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Developing systems to hinder the Griefers requires a comprehensive understanding of human nature. Sadly, a dim view of human behavior is required. Especially online behavior. Everything should be designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. Game Developers could even hire Griefers to test out their systems, much like the government will hire black hat hackers to combat other black hat hackers.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I agree. Those players aren't in it for RP. They "play to crush" and will find a way if one's available. GMs cannot keep up with them, not even close. The players need the tools, that work, to stop them on a permanent basis, by giving them losses that they feel harshly enough that they will stop.
Lets say for discussion we took a game like Trove, the Voxel system lends itself well custom crafting and world building, after all, put in Full Loot Perma Death so that dying has some serious consequences, and as opposed to starting hub, players just get tossed into a massive randomly generated open world, where they can build whatever they want from there on out.
Now this is a simple system, but we are dealing with a foundation game. For the sake of world building, we could add complexity, like putting in skill ranks for weapons/gear. have a whole skill tree and system for casting spells, a whole system of spell crafting, where players can invent their own spells. Since the world is Voxel, all weapons and armor are made up of blocks, so all that is custom made and designed as well. Perhaps a whole complex crafting system of alloys and the like that players can experiment with, as well as put in a whole farming system, animal husbandry, a system to tame or catch animals to raise them... I mean all the rules and systems would be what the Devs work on. So there is really no limit to how far down the rabbit hole of systems we could.
Kinda like how TSR made rules, and let the players go have fun building and interacting with their own worlds.
Ideally, with that kind of game, the Devs would just focus on the systems, making sure they work, perhaps adding to them, maybe tweaking them to make them work better as time went on, etc. But.. the game world itself.. what happens in the world.. is fully up to the players.
The could build vast skyscrapers and cities of light or charred blackened wastelands, that would be up to them.
If we were to make something like that.. how many would want to play.. knowing what your game world would be like going forward is entirely up to the players.
Would you play that game?
No, I would not play that game. That's too much, and the players would literally change the game's vision. Or at least, my vision of the game, based on how it started.
Developing systems to hinder the Griefers requires a comprehensive understanding of human nature. Sadly, a dim view of human behavior is required. Especially online behavior. Everything should be designed with the lowest common denominator in mind. Game Developers could even hire Griefers to test out their systems, much like the government will hire black hat hackers to combat other black hat hackers.
The systems have been tested a thousand times. I keep getting the feeling that you just haven't been paying attention the last 20 or so years. Between making claims that your version of an MMORPG will be MORE popular than current offerings and acting like people haven't thought about, implemented and tested many versions of what you are proposing, you just don't come off as all that knowledgeable about the past and current state of games.
On top of that, there is a certain arrogance about how you view the current situation. Everything you like is highly interesting and worthwhile while everything other people like is part of catering to the lowest common denominator.
Your ideas are not new. In fact, they are very old in terms of gaming. These were ideas that were discussed in depth literally 20 years ago and ever since. There are people that prefer the types of systems you are talking about, but there just aren't very many of them.
On a side note, hiring professional griefers doesn't change the fact that people have been responding to griefers for years now. Why would you hire people to do what you can already test for for free?
I've always been a supporter of a Justice system that has no work-arounds or escape clauses, something we have never seen in any game. Such things like "prison, with escapes" don't work.
I agree. Those players aren't in it for RP. They "play to crush" and will find a way if one's available. GMs cannot keep up with them, not even close. The players need the tools, that work, to stop them on a permanent basis, by giving them losses that they feel harshly enough that they will stop.
Keep one thing in mind, CCP found out those playing to crush were a substantial portion of their paying customers so it is a neverending task to maintain a proper balance.
Also, most tools devs have tried to put in players hands end up being better manipulated (or circumvented) by those who they were designed to control vs those they were intended to help.
I don't consider Eve in the same category as MMORPGs in that it's more of a battleship sort of game. It's hard comparing Eve to games with worlds and characters, and systems that (to one degree or another) simulate a world of interacting life.
I've said many times, I've not seen an MMORPG that allowed open PvP that didn't also have workarounds for any penalties. Just up post, I mentioned "prison, with escapes." That stuff does nothing to stop rampant PKing.
So we are in agreement here. But I do think it's possible.
Comments
2) There could be levels in skills, abilities, and talents as opposed to class/character levels. There could be ranks as well, but they would be social, economic, political, and military ranks, etc. Now, a deity (played/controlled by a GM/Game Master might intervene in a battle and choose to empower your character to defeat more mobs or other player-characters at once. However, if there is more than one deity in the game world, than an opposing deity/GM could also choose to empower your enemies in a battle. Opposing deities/GMs might even choose to empower both sides in a battle. Not saying that is necessary in a game world, but it could make things more interesting. (OR the deity could send his or her own avatar or supernatural subordinates to directly aid a player-character in battle or with some non-combat ordeal/quest.)
3) When the GM is offline, then a particular deity would be controlled by AI. And, of course, your character would have to perform certain tasks/duties/actions in order to gain the favor of their chosen deity or deities. But other actions could also gain them the ire of another deity or other deities.
4) Your character could also gain/lose favor points with different factions. These could be political entities as well as guilds/mercenary companies/bandit gangs/monster hordes, etc. If your character gains enough favor with a certain faction, this would lower prices for items in their settlements, reduce costs for training, grant access to special buildings and NPCs, as well as unlock the possibility for them to send NPCs to aid your character in battle. However, by gaining favor with one faction or performing certain actions, your character would also gain disfavor with another faction. So other factions could become so angry with your character that they might send out assassins or other such NPCs to atttack your character. And your characters would have a general level of renown/infamy based on the actions he or she chooses to perform and decisions he or she chooses to make. There could be player-controlled factions as well as AI controlled-factions. However, just the GMs, the Player-controlled Factions would have rules as well as penalties for breaking those rules. So not everything would be up to the whim of a particular GM or Player (or group of Players).
6) Player Characters (and even Mobs?) could have an option to request aid from a deity or faction. However, the deity or faction could reply yes, no, or wait. A deity could be prayed to anywhere, though an invocation might be more effective in a temple, on a feast/holy day, and/or after performing some sort of ritual or sacrifice. A PC would have to actually visit an PC or NPC with authority in the faction from which he or she was requesting aid. Being granted an audience could take some time (might not always be immediate) as those in authority are often busy with duties or might be holding an audience with other PCs (or perhaps even NPCs) at the time. And the cool-down timer for receiving aid would be longer after requesting aid as opposed to receiving aid without requesting it.
Aid from a deity or faction could also come in the form of time-limited boons or blessings OR gifts of money/items OR being allowed to borrow an legendary weapon, piece or set of armor, or a fabled artifact for a limited amount of time.
7) Furthermore, a faction with which a PC has favor might displease a particular deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points) might do something which pleases the deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity. OR A faction with which a PC has favor might please a particular deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points) might do something which displeases the deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the deity.
Gonna be honest.. it does not appeal to me, as playing a game to kiss a deities ass, is not really a sake point. Now, kicking their ass would be a better sale point.
Just me tho.
but if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. too bad. it hit so many notes you were after. even the "players can change the world" note to some degree
I mean, do I want to eat/drink just to survive. If you had an economy based on eating and eating certain things helped with different aspects of playing then sure.
Same with weight. If there is a trade and travel based around weight then it would make sense.
Realism should have compelling game play mechanics around it or it's just in the way. Most themeparks are based around solo or gangbang combat. Do you really need to be hungry while you FedEx and commit genocide?
You probably get more competition from other genre. Just like there probably isn't much builder mmorpg because minecraft took most of the players.
Eating and Drinking, in Dungeons and Dragons Online.
DDO is a game where players do not instant heal unless they beat the quest, so if you fail a quest, you either depart after being slain and return to your Bind Point (Typically in a Tavern or Inn) with `1 Hp, whereupon you need to Eat/Drink to recover life, or cast healing spells, and then need to eat/drink to recover Mana.
Or you recall out of the quest with whatever HP/Mana you had left, and head off to the tavern to heal up.
Higher level guilds, with airships, have fast healing as part of their top deck feature, so that has done away with a lot of the need to hang in the taverns and heal. But it used to be quite the common thing in DDO.
Just wanted to put that out there for anyone trying DDO now wondering about that change.
My max str power armor build let's me carry huge loads, perfect for a PVE scavager but I have to give some combat capability in order to carry 8 heavy guns at a time.
Rifle builds have no such option but many still play them due to their WTF crit shot capacity, which can drop a NPC which I'm pouring 50 rounds into.
Travel times in EVE served a definite strategic purpose and could be circumvented but only at a cost, almost always having limitations and provisos.
Everything for good reason, not just to waste a player's time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also, most tools devs have tried to put in players hands end up being better manipulated (or circumvented) by those who they were designed to control vs those they were intended to help.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Once upon a time....
On top of that, there is a certain arrogance about how you view the current situation. Everything you like is highly interesting and worthwhile while everything other people like is part of catering to the lowest common denominator.
Your ideas are not new. In fact, they are very old in terms of gaming. These were ideas that were discussed in depth literally 20 years ago and ever since. There are people that prefer the types of systems you are talking about, but there just aren't very many of them.
On a side note, hiring professional griefers doesn't change the fact that people have been responding to griefers for years now. Why would you hire people to do what you can already test for for free?
I've said many times, I've not seen an MMORPG that allowed open PvP that didn't also have workarounds for any penalties. Just up post, I mentioned "prison, with escapes." That stuff does nothing to stop rampant PKing.
So we are in agreement here. But I do think it's possible.
Once upon a time....