Do MMORPGs Need to Allow the Use of Macros?

Ancient_Exile

Can MMORPGs prevent the use of Macros if they like?  I've never actually used Macros in MMORPGs.  Never really felt the need to do so.

kilun

SWG had macros built in.

Ancient_Exile

kilun said:

SWG had macros built in.

And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

Gamer54321

MMORPG games don't have needs.

alkarionlog

Ancient_Exile said:

kilun said:

SWG had macros built in.

And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

Ancient_Exile

alkarionlog said:

Ancient_Exile said:

kilun said:

SWG had macros built in.

And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.

alkarionlog

Ancient_Exile said:

alkarionlog said:

Ancient_Exile said:

kilun said:

SWG had macros built in.

And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.

a game don't want to let you cheat, yet people do, so you have your question

ChildoftheShadows

In my experience you either allow it or adjust your game so it isn’t necessary. 

Ancient_Exile

alkarionlog said:

Ancient_Exile said:

alkarionlog said:

Ancient_Exile said:

kilun said:

SWG had macros built in.

And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.

a game don't want to let you cheat, yet people do, so you have your question

So can designers prevent people from using macros to cheat or not?

Ancient_Exile

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

moshra

Ancient_Exile said:

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

Asking for a friend?

Developers often times use anti cheat software that is built into the game.  However, they are often circumvented.  They also use up computer resources making the game harder to optimize.

Ancient_Exile

moshra said:

Ancient_Exile said:

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

Asking for a friend?

Developers often times use anti cheat software that is built into the game.  However, they are often circumvented.  They also use up computer resources making the game harder to optimize.

No, I'm just curious.  I don't use macros.

Xatsh

Games cannot prevent people from using them.

Anti-Cheats do 3 things,drastically slow down your loading, use system resources, and cause false positives that screw over legit ppl. People actually using hacks find ways around them it is actually fairly easy to do.

Alot of gaming keyboards have macros built into them. Game that do not have macros in it, I will just use my keyboard or download something to do it.

Some games have macros built in. FFXI/FFXIV and so on.

As long as it is not AFK gameplay.. aka a really stupidly long macro. I see no problem with them.

They are not really an advantage in pvp and in pve you can get by with or without them.

Roguewiz

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Ancient_Exile

Roguewiz said:

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.

Roguewiz

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.

I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

Ancient_Exile

Roguewiz said:

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.

I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.

alkarionlog

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.

I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.

not change much, so use because they are lazy others they belive doing so raise they dps, since they can't do a mistake in rotation, in the end change nothing if you know how to play you hardly will need, plus people who worry in using macros tend to mess mechs since they are not used to pay atencion in the game

Ancient_Exile

alkarionlog said:

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Ancient_Exile said:

Roguewiz said:

Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.

I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.

not change much, so use because they are lazy others they belive doing so raise they dps, since they can't do a mistake in rotation, in the end change nothing if you know how to play you hardly will need, plus people who worry in using macros tend to mess mechs since they are not used to pay atencion in the game

I haven't yet used macros.  I didn't even use macros in Everquest 2.  Had to have like 4 hotbars by level 90-95 though.

botrytis

DMKano said:

Ancient_Exile said:

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 

They can tell by how fast the skill, etc. is called on. Macros are quicker, there by giving a small amount of execution time.

GW2 does not allow 3rd party macros.

Iselin

Rift had macros as part of the game and they were easier to use an more powerful than your typical home-cooked KB or mouse macro.

As to detection it would need someone scrutinizing the player's input very carefully over a long period of time to see if the commands and the delay between commands was always exactly the same down to the millisecond.

I seriously doubt any studio would bother especially when they have more egregious TOS violations to worry about like speed hacks, duping, automated multi-boxing, etc.

It's not like they're game breaking, they're just lazy shortcuts or automation of repetitive tasks like that buff that needs to be recast every 20 seconds.

ChildoftheShadows

botrytis said:

DMKano said:

Ancient_Exile said:

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 

They can tell by how fast the skill, etc. is called on. Macros are quicker, there by giving a small amount of execution time.

GW2 does not allow 3rd party macros.

It’s all easy to bypass without effort. Trust when I say they cannot prevent macros. 

Amaranthar

Macros are going to be used. 
One thing I have against them is using them like scripts to gain a benefit, such as skills or production, while the player is away from the game doing other things. 

I also don't like detection programs. They can be used with macros too, or not. But that's a big problem. 

Theocritus

DMKano said:

Ancient_Exile said:

DMKano said:

Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 

Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 

Im not sure about that...Many of the idle games ban people for using illegal scripts that can run the game 24/7 which is obviously cheating.

AlBQuirky

Macros. They help in the prevention of carpal tunnel like in crafting, can help when more keys are needed in a rotation than people have fingers, and can also be used for "AFK activities."

My only experience with them was in EQ1 that had macros built in. It was with my Bard and I macro'd 2 song rotations (3 songs each) for combat. In that game, your abilities did not fire off automatically as many of them could fail. I stopped using the macros when my songs "failed" to play ("You missed a note...") and I found myself having to hit a song 2 or 3 times to get it fired off. In today's "always succeed" designs, I don't see that specific problem

If players want them, why not give the option?

PS: Cheaters will always find ways around the rules...

Iselin

AlBQuirky said:

Macros. They help in the prevention of carpal tunnel like in crafting, can help when more keys are needed in a rotation than people have fingers, and can also be used for "AFK activities."

There was a new PC D3 player recently on reddit with serious hand mobility issues looking for ideas on classes and builds that could be played with minimal keyboard mashing.

He was ecstatic when I linked him a video of how to do a secondary binding of the action keys to numpad numbers so that skills could be auto-cast on cooldown. It's D3's unofficial macro system that Blizzard has never officially sanctioned or unsanctioned although they have featured builds that make use of it on a few of their community spotlight videos.

It's a real help for some and convenient as hell for the rest of us lazy bastards who use it for those temporary buffs on cooldown that D3 has a shit-ton of