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The Most Important Element Missing From Most Modern MMORPGs

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Comments

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Ungood said:
    LOL.. Amnesia is how DDO sets the stage.

    You could imagine as much a backstory as you want for your character, but the game starts with you waking up on a shore from a wrecked ship, some random level 1 nobody, no gear, and no idea why you were on the ship to start with. 

    And that theme gets played upon when you get Veteran status, or use Lesser hearts.


    EQ2 - Shipwrecked on Erollis Isle in the Frostfang Sea (though it's true you can also start in Greater Feydark if you're playing a good-aligned character.  Evil-aligned characters start in Darklight Wood or Timorous Deep.  Back in 2014 anyway.)

    Neverwinter - Shipwrecked

    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked


    Age of Conan

    I only tried it once briefly, so I don't really remember.  Shipwrecked also, eh?
    When I played it, I was tied to a tree.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    LOL.. Amnesia is how DDO sets the stage.

    You could imagine as much a backstory as you want for your character, but the game starts with you waking up on a shore from a wrecked ship, some random level 1 nobody, no gear, and no idea why you were on the ship to start with. 

    And that theme gets played upon when you get Veteran status, or use Lesser hearts.


    EQ2 - Shipwrecked on Erollis Isle in the Frostfang Sea (though it's true you can also start in Greater Feydark if you're playing a good-aligned character.  Evil-aligned characters start in Darklight Wood or Timorous Deep.  Back in 2014 anyway.)

    Neverwinter - Shipwrecked

    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked


    Age of Conan

    I only tried it once briefly, so I don't really remember.  Shipwrecked also, eh?
    When I played it, I was tied to a tree.
    Isn't that Conan Exiles?
    Ungood
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Ungood said:
    LOL.. Amnesia is how DDO sets the stage.

    You could imagine as much a backstory as you want for your character, but the game starts with you waking up on a shore from a wrecked ship, some random level 1 nobody, no gear, and no idea why you were on the ship to start with. 

    And that theme gets played upon when you get Veteran status, or use Lesser hearts.


    EQ2 - Shipwrecked on Erollis Isle in the Frostfang Sea (though it's true you can also start in Greater Feydark if you're playing a good-aligned character.  Evil-aligned characters start in Darklight Wood or Timorous Deep.  Back in 2014 anyway.)

    Neverwinter - Shipwrecked

    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked


    While Never Winter has a ship wreck, it does not play into the Amnesia role, you were on that ship for a known purpose and task. 

    With DDO, you just wake up on a shore with no memory of your past, which, eliminates any kind of backstory, or, anything special about your character, you are just some nobody that washed up on the shore.

    I mean, if you wanted to play a game with any kind of real backstory, the characters should grow old and die, and then your next character would be the child of your previous one, or perhaps, your character could quest for means for extend their life, like becoming a vampire for example.

    That could be kinda cool in its own way.

    Have it's own drawbacks as well.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?


    Ancient_Exile

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?


    yeah, I've seen Theocritus' argument with other players and I'm not sure what the issue is.

    It's a space game. you aren't going to be flying around like superman "in space."

    You have a character "in a space ship." 

    Players can see the face of their character and know that it's "in a space ship."

    space ship.
    Ancient_ExileKyleran
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 2020
    xD_Gaming said:
    Role Players :neutral:


    It ain't just about Role-Playing.  Read what @DMKano wrote please.

    DMKano said:
    I personally don't care about the backstory or anything about my character.

    What's really missing (the OP touched on this) - is the lack of meaningful/impactful choice.

    There is no possibility of failure - every player is set on a path that is 100% success as long as they keep playing.

    This is a what makes MMOs so dull - you are playing something where no matter how many mistakes you make - you still succeed. The entire gameplay is designed to where you cannot fail period.

    This completely removes any kind of sense of risk/reward over time - it's a shit design.

    IMO every piece of gear should have pros and cons - you want high AC plate armor, sure - but you lose 30% speed and 10 points of agility. 

    Also you cannot swim in plate armor, but you can dive really fast :D

    If there is ever a situation in game where one choice is a clear 100% no brainer - that's a bad game design. Every choice that player has to make from gearing up, to abilities to what NPCs you become friends with - needs to be something that has both pros and cons.

    Making friends with one NPC should also mean you make enemies with another - again - choices that have both positive and negative outcomes are good. (similar to faction system in EQ1 but make it impossible to be friendly with all)

    Make choices mean something - current design feels like it's designed from a mindset where everything is 100% childproofed - all end gear is just all stats + in everything (zero downsides), it's all a meaningless circle jerk, as there is no real choice.
    (Note:  Bold Emphasis added to DMKano's original post.)

    I wrote the following yesterday in the thread on the Death Penalty:

    Being able to evaluate Risk vs Reward and make important choices based on that evaluation makes a game much more interesting IMHO.

    Also, the more important choices a game offers me, choices which can significantly effect my character, other player characters, non-player characters, mobs, and (hopefully) the game world itself, the more interesting that game will be.  To me anyway.

    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    [Deleted User]
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.






    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 2020
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.







    Thanks for the info.  I don't know.  Maybe I'm strange, but I'm just not excited by the idea of piloting a ship in space.  A cyberpunk game like EVE might be a little more appealing to me.  But really, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy game that's more like EVE.  Sigh. 

    Well, anyway, I guess it won't hurt to download EVE and see what I think of it.  Don't really have high hopes though.  Especially after reading other people's tales of EVE on another thread recently.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    The pen and paper D&D alignment system is second to none.
    Ancient_Exile

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    LOL.. Amnesia is how DDO sets the stage.

    You could imagine as much a backstory as you want for your character, but the game starts with you waking up on a shore from a wrecked ship, some random level 1 nobody, no gear, and no idea why you were on the ship to start with. 

    And that theme gets played upon when you get Veteran status, or use Lesser hearts.


    EQ2 - Shipwrecked on Erollis Isle in the Frostfang Sea (though it's true you can also start in Greater Feydark if you're playing a good-aligned character.  Evil-aligned characters start in Darklight Wood or Timorous Deep.  Back in 2014 anyway.)

    Neverwinter - Shipwrecked

    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked


    While Never Winter has a ship wreck, it does not play into the Amnesia role, you were on that ship for a known purpose and task. 

    With DDO, you just wake up on a shore with no memory of your past, which, eliminates any kind of backstory, or, anything special about your character, you are just some nobody that washed up on the shore.

    I mean, if you wanted to play a game with any kind of real backstory, the characters should grow old and die, and then your next character would be the child of your previous one, or perhaps, your character could quest for means for extend their life, like becoming a vampire for example.

    That could be kinda cool in its own way.

    Have it's own drawbacks as well.

    Well, in the original Neverwinter Intro/Tutorial, you could choose to tell the first NPC you talked to that "...I don't remember."  (He asks you what you're doing in Neverwinter after you've been shipwrecked.)
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    DMKano said:
    I personally don't care about the backstory or anything about my character.

    What's really missing (the OP touched on this) - is the lack of meaningful/impactful choice.

    There is no possibility of failure - every player is set on a path that is 100% success as long as they keep playing.

    This is a what makes MMOs so dull - you are playing something where no matter how many mistakes you make - you still succeed. The entire gameplay is designed to where you cannot fail period.

    This completely removes any kind of sense of risk/reward over time - it's a shit design.

    IMO every piece of gear should have pros and cons - you want high AC plate armor, sure - but you lose 30% speed and 10 points of agility. 

    Also you cannot swim in plate armor, but you can dive really fast :D

    If there is ever a situation in game where one choice is a clear 100% no brainer - that's a bad game design. Every choice that player has to make from gearing up, to abilities to what NPCs you become friends with - needs to be something that has both pros and cons.

    Making friends with one NPC should also mean you make enemies with another - again - choices that have both positive and negative outcomes are good. (similar to faction system in EQ1 but make it impossible to be friendly with all)

    Make choices mean something - current design feels like it's designed from a mindset where everything is 100% childproofed - all end gear is just all stats + in everything (zero downsides), it's all a meaningless circle jerk, as there is no real choice.
    DDO has a lot of that this actually. Especially the gear part. 

    Like for example. All Armors have stats, like "Max Dex Bonus" and "Armor Check Penalties"

    Often Heavy Armor has a Max Dex Bonus of 1, so, anything above a +1 in your dex, is lost, but, that is the price you might be willing to pay for the added protection of Heavy Armor. 

    Armor Check Penalties, are what negative you take to using skills, like Swim, Jump, Tumble, Etc, Again, a Trade off of what you want vs what you are willing to give up to get it.

    DDO also has a lot of situational items, like for example, If you wanted to swim in your Heavy Plate, you could farm up some "Plate Armor of the Deep" however this armor is really only good while you are swimming, when you get out out of the water you might want to swap back to your Cavalry Plate, or if you are a Paladin or Cleric, you might want to swap into Full Plate of the Ringleader, or Infested Armor, depending on your need, build, and want at that level. Each has their own benefits and drawbacks. 

    In fact situational gear was a direct and deliberate design in DDO, so that there would not be any universal BiS gear item unlike most games have, and it was done to directly remove the myopic idea that a +2 Weapon is better than +1 Weapon. In DDO, the other traits play a huge role in what weapon will be the best weapon for a situation.

    About the only thing that DDO does not do is NPC faction issues, and this is because the Developers at Turbine came out and directly said that DDO is an AD&D Heroic Campaign, the players are the 'good guys' that is why they do not allow an evil alignment in the game, even if it has been requested a lot for many, many years. 

    If SSG opts to change that, what will be will be. 


    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    LOL.. Amnesia is how DDO sets the stage.

    You could imagine as much a backstory as you want for your character, but the game starts with you waking up on a shore from a wrecked ship, some random level 1 nobody, no gear, and no idea why you were on the ship to start with. 

    And that theme gets played upon when you get Veteran status, or use Lesser hearts.


    EQ2 - Shipwrecked on Erollis Isle in the Frostfang Sea (though it's true you can also start in Greater Feydark if you're playing a good-aligned character.  Evil-aligned characters start in Darklight Wood or Timorous Deep.  Back in 2014 anyway.)

    Neverwinter - Shipwrecked

    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked


    Age of Conan

    I only tried it once briefly, so I don't really remember.  Shipwrecked also, eh?
    When I played it, I was tied to a tree.
    Isn't that Conan Exiles?
    .. I stand corrected.. it was Conan Exiles. My bad.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.







    Thanks for the info.  I don't know.  Maybe I'm strange, but I'm just not excited by the idea of piloting a ship in space.  A cyberpunk game like EVE might be a little more appealing to me.  But really, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy game that's more like EVE.  Sigh. 

    Well, anyway, I guess it won't hurt to download EVE and see what I think of it.  Don't really have high hopes though.  Especially after reading other people's tales of EVE on another thread recently.
    Eve is an interesting and well put together package. Getting something like it in a fantasy setting would quite a feat. Everything goes together from learning many different skills that intertwine in different ways to having ships that are required to go around your character (pod) before you can equip anything. Those ships having different power and space capacities, different mods with different requirements, it's just crazy the level of detail put into it.

    I would imagine a mech game being more suited. Something in a fantasy form would almost require you be able to change body's after you've learned the appropriate skill. "What are you training right now?" "Me? Oh, I've got 3 minutes left on Dark Elf one!" 

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.







    Thanks for the info.  I don't know.  Maybe I'm strange, but I'm just not excited by the idea of piloting a ship in space.  A cyberpunk game like EVE might be a little more appealing to me.  But really, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy game that's more like EVE.  Sigh. 

    Well, anyway, I guess it won't hurt to download EVE and see what I think of it.  Don't really have high hopes though.  Especially after reading other people's tales of EVE on another thread recently.
    Eve is an interesting and well put together package. Getting something like it in a fantasy setting would quite a feat. Everything goes together from learning many different skills that intertwine in different ways to having ships that are required to go around your character (pod) before you can equip anything. Those ships having different power and space capacities, different mods with different requirements, it's just crazy the level of detail put into it.

    I would imagine a mech game being more suited. Something in a fantasy form would almost require you be able to change body's after you've learned the appropriate skill. "What are you training right now?" "Me? Oh, I've got 3 minutes left on Dark Elf one!" 


    I understand.  I didn't mean that I want a Medieval Fantasy MMORPG with the same systems.  Just a similar overall concept. 

    "Players of Eve Online can participate in a number of in-game professions and activities, including mining, piracy, manufacturing, trading, exploration, and combat (both player versus environment and player versus player)...

    ...The game is renowned for its scale and complexity with regards to player interactions – in its single, shared game world, players engage in unscripted economic competition, warfare, and political schemes with other players." -
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online


    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.







    Thanks for the info.  I don't know.  Maybe I'm strange, but I'm just not excited by the idea of piloting a ship in space.  A cyberpunk game like EVE might be a little more appealing to me.  But really, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy game that's more like EVE.  Sigh. 

    Well, anyway, I guess it won't hurt to download EVE and see what I think of it.  Don't really have high hopes though.  Especially after reading other people's tales of EVE on another thread recently.
    Well normally I'd say just sit tight and play SC when it releases... but ... you know....

    You can play EVE for free at first,  just to see if you enjoy the game.

    There are several corps which actively recruit free players who will definitely hook you up with free skill books and ships, especially if you are willing to do some PVP.

    See if Brave Noobies is still active, EVE university is always a good choice.

    Don't just mine alone,  nothing sucks worse than that, even mission running is more interesting and focuses your training on skills which well cross over to PVP hulls.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 2020
    Kyleran said:
    Well normally I'd say just sit tight and play SC when it releases... but ... you know....

    You can play EVE for free at first,  just to see if you enjoy the game.

    There are several corps which actively recruit free players who will definitely hook you up with free skill books and ships, especially if you are willing to do some PVP.

    See if Brave Noobies is still active, EVE university is always a good choice.

    Don't just mine alone,  nothing sucks worse than that, even mission running is more interesting and focuses your training on skills which well cross over to PVP hulls.



    Well, I downloaded it and docked.  I'll probably try to play some more later.  Just not really excited about space.  It seems like Medieval Fantasy is in my blood.  I like to see castles in the distance, climb mountains, stand atop towers.  And I really do enjoy fighting orcs, trolls, dragons, and what not.  I don't care whether a fantasy world has a lot of magic or if magic is rare.  Though magic being rare is more like in the best stories (LotR, ASoIaF) and the legends.  Anyway, a world inhabited by demi-humans and monsters wherein the magical, mystical, and the divine/supernatural play a role (large or small) is just far more appealing to me than a technologically advanced sci-fi setting on a single planet or in outer space. 

    I did really enjoy Star Wars in the past (though it's actually more a mix of fantasy and sci-fi than pure sci-fi).  However, Disney has ruined it for me.

    EDIT:  I prefer high fantasy to low fantasy or grimdark. 



    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    Tuor7
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    Kyleran said:

    Don't just mine alone,  nothing sucks worse than that, even mission running is more interesting and focuses your training on skills which well cross over to PVP hulls.


    Yeah...I made an app for that :P
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 2020
    Sovrath said:
    So then what if your backstory did have consequence? I'm not saying every game has to have this but I'm ok with some games having it.
    Another note on how I think backstory/origin of a character should work.  It could be that the player is given a certain amount of points to spend on it during character creation.  But the character must have both positive and negative characteristics, advantages and disadvantages based on his/her personality & history.  Some advantages would cost more points than others.  And it should be designed so that there are no optimal choices.  For example, being more wealthy would also give the character more duties and responsibilities in the game.  If the character wants to remain in good standing with his/her (noble, merchant, etc.) family, then he or she would be required to perform specific tasks on occasion and behave in a manner that didn't bring shame upon the family.

    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    Sovrath
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Play EVE, pretty much covers all of the bases outlined in the OP, player determines near everything about how they'll make their way through the universe.

    They might even try to conquer all of free space...

    I'm sorry but I at least need a relateable avatar....Being in a space ship doesn't give me any kind of connection whatsoever.

    Except that....you do have an avatar in EVE, it can be customized, you can purchase or earn additional gear for it, give it a personal backstory and it used to be able to walk around a Captains Quarters,  but they removed it because no one really cared.

    This vs an avatar in most other games where you spend 95 % of your time looking at the back of its helmeted head?

    Not seeing much of a difference and this reason comes across as more of an excuse not to give it a good try than anything else.

    Remember, your connection with an avatar is all in your imagination, stretch it a bit and you'll do fine. 

    Or do all your books need to have pictures in them as well?



    How many years of Real Time will I need to spend mining before I can buy a decent ship?
    Getting a decent ship is the easy part, learning the skills to fly one well is the bigger time sink.

    I was flying a badly fitted Raven Battleship in about 3 months back in 2007, these days they give players some boosters to get them into the action,  but still probably three months or so unless you go the cash shop route.

    But there are much better, cheaper ships to cut your PVP teeth on, and it really is all about knowing where and how to choose your battles.

    I once met a new player who had 3 months experience and over 150 kills to his credit, which is more than I have on my killboard after playing for more than 10 years.







    Thanks for the info.  I don't know.  Maybe I'm strange, but I'm just not excited by the idea of piloting a ship in space.  A cyberpunk game like EVE might be a little more appealing to me.  But really, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy game that's more like EVE.  Sigh. 

    Well, anyway, I guess it won't hurt to download EVE and see what I think of it.  Don't really have high hopes though.  Especially after reading other people's tales of EVE on another thread recently.
    Well normally I'd say just sit tight and play SC when it releases... but ... you know....

    You can play EVE for free at first,  just to see if you enjoy the game.

    There are several corps which actively recruit free players who will definitely hook you up with free skill books and ships, especially if you are willing to do some PVP.

    See if Brave Noobies is still active, EVE university is always a good choice.

    Don't just mine alone,  nothing sucks worse than that, even mission running is more interesting and focuses your training on skills which well cross over to PVP hulls.


    I betaed EVE the avatar of your character was very well done then I remember being a scifi fan I was stoked. I didn't know much about the game but I wasn't interested when I realised I might get killed and lose stuff. I'm not entirely sure I think I only did the character screen and then I never played. Over the years I have wondered if I had actually played it whether I might have liked it.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    edited May 2020
    Elder Scrolls Online - Shipwrecked

    Varies, by chapter. With each new one released the initial starting experience changes to a new one set in it the new region that all newly made characters default to.

    One can opt to instead start with the original initial experience by traveling from the new area to the capital for their alliance where an NPC will assign a very brief quest that sets that scenario up.
    Ancient_Exile
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    The simplest way i can say it and imo the biggest problem is game devs are often not designing their game around "making sense".
    Instead they toss in ideas because "this will help sales" "this will help keep players around".

    It is my biggest peeve when i see implementation that just has me shaking my head,WTF was this dev thinking.
    I stated this as the sole reason i had any interest in ONE crowd funded game "Pantheon".Brad stated his goal was to create a game that "made sense".That statement by Brad was such a breathe of fresh air,i was like wow finally someone with a clue.

    So for me,EVERY last piece of the puzzle should ask the question "does this idea make sense"if not,then don't put in in your game.IDC about "business sense"i only care about the game you want me to buy or invest in.
    UngoodAncient_Exile

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Sovrath said:
    So then what if your backstory did have consequence? I'm not saying every game has to have this but I'm ok with some games having it.
    Another note on how I think backstory/origin of a character should work.  It could be that the player is given a certain amount of points to spend on it during character creation.  But the character must have both positive and negative characteristics, advantages and disadvantages based on his/her personality & history.  Some advantages would cost more points than others.  And it should be designed so that there are no optimal choices.  For example, being more wealthy would also give the character more duties and responsibilities in the game.  If the character wants to remain in good standing with his/her (noble, merchant, etc.) family, then he or she would be required to perform specific tasks on occasion and behave in a manner that didn't bring shame upon the family.

    I completely agree and it's like what I've said before about having player character creation similar to what they did in Masters of Orion II (and possibly 1 who knows)

    You have 10 points and can put those points into attributes/bonuses. However, some cost a lot. You can then add "negatives" which then subtract from your 10 points max thus allowing the player to add more. Just with some downsides.




    Ancient_Exile
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    edited May 2020
    Wizardry said:

    I stated this as the sole reason i had any interest in ONE crowd funded game "Pantheon".Brad stated his goal was to create a game that "made sense".That statement by Brad was such a breathe of fresh air,i was like wow finally someone with a clue.


    Yeah but unless he gave specific examples of what that meant you would have fallen down the same rabbit hole that SO MANY gamers have fallen through.

    Just because someone says "it will make sense" or "it will be "epic combat" (or any number of claims that a developer makes) doesn't mean their idea of "sense" or "epic" will align with yours. The devil is in the details. 


    AmarantharAncient_ExileKyleran
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Subjective, but fun gameplay.  Focus is always around rewards and advancement. 

    Game world based around advancement and rewards.
    Gear based around advancement and rewards.
    Characters based around advancement and rewards.
    Quest based around advancement and rewards.

    Thus all MMORPG feel the same because they're all about the same thing. They also do it mostly in the same way. You can only enjoy current MMORPG if you are heavy into achievements.  

    SovrathAncient_Exile
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