New guy comes to mmorpg.com. Has not clue who he's writing to and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed... news at 11!
Blah, blah, blah...blah...blah, blah...blah
"New guy comes to mmorpg.com..."
Who does this guy think he is? And how dare new people come here without being invited by yours truly and going through the sacred rites of initiation?
"Has not clue who he's writing to..."
???
hahahahaha
"...and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed..."
New people must read every thread and post on mmorpg.com before they even think about talking about any of their ideas. If something has ever been mentioned once, it must never be mentioned again. Ever.
At first glance i'm thinking "do I really want to click on this topic", but I did anyway.
Same here, but it's been slow, so I clicked. DAMMIT!
I like posts that tell us what is what, don't you?
I also wonder if there will ever be an end to Ancient_Exile's memes... Used on occasion is one thing. Used in almost every post is bothersome.
PS: Just tried searching (cannot search, apparently) because I know there are at least 2, maybe even 3 threads already about "Your Dream MMORPG." These ideas would be great in those threads.
How about someone go through the ideas I presented in this thread step-by-step and explain exactly how and why they cannot work in an MMORPG?
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
Lol! I will give it a shot and try to summarize. Bold is what I understood from @Ancient_Exile 's post.
- Defining a true MMORPG as one where players affect others players
People cannot even agree on MMORPG's needing to force grouping ("social ambience" proponents). I generally agree with your definition, but this is not relevant, since it does not help us communicate with those that don't agree. We need to allow for broader definitions otherwise we get into semantic wars that are not constructive.
- True MMORPG's should have horizontal progression and multiple careers, not just hero/villain.
Yes alternate careers enhance the "RPG" side of things. No, vertical vs horizontal has nothing to do with it, rather with how accessible it is to new or returning players. Matter of taste, both work fine.
- Skill vs class-based systems, ranks as alternative types of progression
Matter of taste, both work fine. I also give bonus cookie points to skill-based systems and multiple progression tracks. All these are done already and proved to be successful in many games.
- GM's providing favors/help to players
Big no-no, especially if you advocate players affecting the world, then you want the dev side to be as hands off as possible to avoid favoritism accusations. Fits better in story or event driven games.
- Positive/negative faction standings/rep systems
Already done in many games that have factions and reputation tracks (EVE, E:D etc). Can be fun systems but many times are implemented as grinds and players have mixed feelings. Personally I think it depends on the game loop to get the rep.
Deitys also pretty well done in EQ 2 , failry extensive and good quest line , then you can get a shrine to your Deity you can place in your house by donating you gain favor which then you can use to be granted some very good prayers .. . Any serious EQ2 Player is gaining favor and prayers from there deity near daily
How about someone go through the ideas I presented in this thread step-by-step and explain exactly how and why they cannot work in an MMORPG?
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
I already tried to do this once, and he didn't take it well.
Given, I mean I came across like TrembleBones, from GW2, where says "No one is arguing the need for a plan, yours is just stupid and won't work"
Truly an underrated character in that game, as I found her hilarious!
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You never got around to explaining why you're on this site, as promised in the thread title.
As best as I can tell, you're upset that you made up a definition of RPG that is different from what anyone else uses and are upset that the rest of the universe didn't immediately agree to use your definition.
Also, you're treating the title of whatever game it is like a swear word that needs to be censored.
"Then I thought maybe I should create an account here so that I could
share my ideas with people who are more specifically interested in
MMORPGs."
Wait, wut? We are supposed to share our ideas here? Who knew?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wait, wut? We are supposed to share our ideas here? Who knew?
I thought it was just a place to hang out and
I dunno what I am doing here man.. I ended up here from a random link on a porn site.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
New guy comes to mmorpg.com. Has not clue who he's writing to and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed... news at 11!
Blah, blah, blah...blah...blah, blah...blah
"New guy comes to mmorpg.com..."
Who does this guy think he is? And how dare new people come here without being invited by yours truly and going through the sacred rites of initiation?
"Has not clue who he's writing to..."
???
hahahahaha
"...and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed..."
New people must read every thread and post on mmorpg.com before they even think about talking about any of their ideas. If something has ever been mentioned once, it must never be mentioned again. Ever.
Should get us coffee too.
I like milk, no sugar
Uff. You know you are having a bad day when @delete5230 can take a free shot and score.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
New guy comes to mmorpg.com. Has not clue who he's writing to and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed... news at 11!
Blah, blah, blah...blah...blah, blah...blah
"New guy comes to mmorpg.com..."
Who does this guy think he is? And how dare new people come here without being invited by yours truly and going through the sacred rites of initiation?
"Has not clue who he's writing to..."
???
hahahahaha
"...and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed..."
New people must read every thread and post on mmorpg.com before they even think about talking about any of their ideas. If something has ever been mentioned once, it must never be mentioned again. Ever.
Should get us coffee too.
I like milk, no sugar
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
How about someone go through the ideas I presented in this thread step-by-step and explain exactly how and why they cannot work in an MMORPG?
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
Lol! I will give it a shot and try to summarize. Bold is what I understood from @Ancient_Exile 's post.
- Defining a true MMORPG as one where players affect others players
People cannot even agree on MMORPG's needing to force grouping ("social ambience" proponents). I generally agree with your definition, but this is not relevant, since it does not help us communicate with those that don't agree. We need to allow for broader definitions otherwise we get into semantic wars that are not constructive.
- True MMORPG's should have horizontal progression and multiple careers, not just hero/villain.
Yes alternative careers enhance the "RPG" side of things. No, vertical vs horizontal has nothing to do with it, rather with how accessible it is to new or returning players. Matter of taste, both work fine.
- Skill vs class-based systems, ranks as alternative types of progression
Matter of taste, both work fine. I also give bonus cookie points to skill-based systems and multiple progression tracks. All these are done already and proved to be successful in many games.
- GM's providing favors/help to players
Big no-no, especially if you advocate players affecting the world, then you want the dev side to be as hands off as possible to avoid favoritism accusations. Fits better in story or event driven games.
- Positive/negative faction standings/rep systems
Already done in many games that have factions and reputation tracks (EVE, E:D etc). Can be fun systems but many times are implemented as grinds and players have mixed feelings. Personally I think it depends on the game loop to get the rep.
I agree with some of the points you've made here, @tzervo
To be honest, what I cut-and-paste here in this thread was something I wrote over a month ago. Since then, I have changed and refined some of my ideas. And, yes, I know that not all, or even most, of these ideas is original. But my goal is to use the best ideas I can find or think of in order to figure out how to make a functional and successful Faction-based OWPVP/PVE Sandbox/Non-Linear Medieval Fantasy MMORPG. Developing a Non-Linear, Dynamic, Persistent Virtual World goes hand-in-hand with that, IMO.
- So, you're right, we can skip trying to define what the necessary components of a true MMORPG are.
- And, actually, I do like classes, but I would prefer for players to be able to choose which skills they learn and which they don't learn. Also, I would like for Non-Combat skills to play a much greater role in MMORPGs.
- Progression - I want Limited/More Realistic Vertical Combat Power/Gear Progression. Horizontal Progression can be employed to unlock more options as well.
But the most important point about progression in MMORPGs is the following:
Just as there are many different types of power in the real world, there can be many different types of power in MMORPGs. And, thus, there can be many different ways to progress a character besides gaining more combat power.
- You and Amaranthar have convinced me that GMs are disgusting creatures who will accept bribes and sexual favors in order to help advance the characters of innocent Players, so I agree. The deities could simply be controlled by AI.
- The Reputation systems I am thinking of would not be a grind. Every choice and action a player character made would effect his or her reputation with a Faction or Deity. And the game would not require a Player Character to repeat the same quests over and over in order to increase Reputation.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
How about someone go through the ideas I presented in this thread step-by-step and explain exactly how and why they cannot work in an MMORPG?
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
Lol! I will give it a shot and try to summarize. Bold is what I understood from @Ancient_Exile 's post.
- Defining a true MMORPG as one where players affect others players
People cannot even agree on MMORPG's needing to force grouping ("social ambience" proponents). I generally agree with your definition, but this is not relevant, since it does not help us communicate with those that don't agree. We need to allow for broader definitions otherwise we get into semantic wars that are not constructive.
- True MMORPG's should have horizontal progression and multiple careers, not just hero/villain.
Yes alternate careers enhance the "RPG" side of things. No, vertical vs horizontal has nothing to do with it, rather with how accessible it is to new or returning players. Matter of taste, both work fine.
- Skill vs class-based systems, ranks as alternative types of progression
Matter of taste, both work fine. I also give bonus cookie points to skill-based systems and multiple progression tracks. All these are done already and proved to be successful in many games.
- GM's providing favors/help to players
Big no-no, especially if you advocate players affecting the world, then you want the dev side to be as hands off as possible to avoid favoritism accusations. Fits better in story or event driven games.
- Positive/negative faction standings/rep systems
Already done in many games that have factions and reputation tracks (EVE, E:D etc). Can be fun systems but many times are implemented as grinds and players have mixed feelings. Personally I think it depends on the game loop to get the rep.
Deitys also pretty well done in EQ 2 , failry extensive and good quest line , then you can get a shrine to your Deity you can place in your house by donating you gain favor which then you can use to be granted some very good prayers .. . Any serious EQ2 Player is gaining favor and prayers from there deity near daily
Yes, I played EQ2 back in 2014. However, I'm thinking of a game where the deities take a more active role in the game world. Though, of course, this is not absolutely necessary. Factions in the game world can function without them.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
How about someone go through the ideas I presented in this thread step-by-step and explain exactly how and why they cannot work in an MMORPG?
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
I already tried to do this once, and he didn't take it well.
Given, I mean I came across like TrembleBones, from GW2, where says "No one is arguing the need for a plan, yours is just stupid and won't work"
Truly an underrated character in that game, as I found her hilarious!
You're so full of it.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
New guy comes to mmorpg.com. Has not clue who he's writing to and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed... news at 11!
Blah, blah, blah...blah...blah, blah...blah
"New guy comes to mmorpg.com..."
Who does this guy think he is? And how dare new people come here without being invited by yours truly and going through the sacred rites of initiation?
"Has not clue who he's writing to..."
???
hahahahaha
"...and how many 100s of times his ideas have been discussed..."
New people must read every thread and post on mmorpg.com before they even think about talking about any of their ideas. If something has ever been mentioned once, it must never be mentioned again. Ever.
Should get us coffee too.
I like milk, no sugar
Uff. You know you are having a bad day when @delete5230 can take a free shot and score.
Except he scored a shot for the other team.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
How about no. I personally think all these ideas would make for an absolutely corking MMORPG. The problem is not the features themselves, but the sheer amount of time, man power, and monetary resources it would take to spin them all into a workable MMORPG. Since big money figured out they could make successful online games that aren't MMORPGs in a fraction of the time, with a fraction of resources, not to mention they could get a very fast return on monetary investment, MMORPGs have become gaming industry poison.
That's very discouraging. So you're saying we should give up all hope for a great MMORPG to ever be made and just play single player games instead?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I came here (in 2004) because I was playing SWG and was looking for advice on templates.
I then largely ignored this site until 2013, because there were loads of good games on the market that held my interest. I directed my opinions towards official game forums - because thats where the devs and likeminded players hang out - and my guild forums.
I returned here in 2013 because the market stopped giving me stuff to play. My primary goal of visiting the site is the vain hope of hearing about a new MMORPG that will suit my needs.
However, I do enjoy these forums!
I seek understanding. Games fascinate me, but the pleasure I get from them is very inconsistent. I seek to understand why I enjoy things and dislike other things. Primarily, this is a selfish motivation, I just want to find the best games for me. But beyond that, I still dream of a job designing games, so I seek understanding on a deeper level.
This forum exposes me to a wider range of opinions than I get in real life. Players from all over the world post here, with a large age range. No idea about ethnicity range, but I have to assume it's larger than my real life acquaintences.
All those opinions give me a better sense of what the larger market enjoys. Analysing others posts gives me some insight into what others are thinking, so even if I disagree with what they say, it's still useful information.
Additionally, posting my own opinions here is a great way to expose any flaws. Some people here can be pretty brutal so if I'm wrong about something, it gets pointed out pretty quick! But this also serves to cement my own thinking - by posting and being challenged, it helps me be sure that im right on some things.
As to your definitions on MMO and RPG, I have my own!
MMO - "a game that allows 500+ players to interact with each other in the same virtual environment".
I could write essays (and have done in the past!) on how I reached that definition. It works for me, and works when applied to most games considered mmos. It's easy to test too. The 500 number is subjective, Raph Koster and Richard Garriott used 250 as their number 20 years ago.
RPG - "a game that has more than one role, and the player is able to interact with that role to affect the way the game plays"
I still don't like this definition much, but its the closest I've gotten so far. Roleplaying means the player has to be able to interact with the role, otherwise you aren't playing. There needs to be more than one role available, otherwise you're just playing a character. And the role must mean that the game plays differently from other roles, otherwise it isn't actually a role.
The key thing I'd like to point out is that story =/= roleplaying. Story is dictated to you by the devs, and just passively watching the story means you aren't playing the story. It is only through interaction that we get roleplaying. If you are given choices in the story (witcher, swtor etc) then that is interacting with the story, thus roleplaying. But, those choices are often few and far between. Combat roles are the most common way of turning an action/adventure game into an RPG, because playing as a tank does give a very different experience to playing as a healer, even if the story is the same.
Yes, I agree with you in general. But I suppose that I want Role-Playing Games to also offer us the opportunity to have positive or negative lasting effects on the game world. Because that has always been possible in Pencil & Paper/Tabletop RPGs. And that, to me, is their most interesting and intriguing aspect.
Moreover, that is really just like a game of role-playing that children might engage in. If they play Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians, they decide who wins. According to whatever rules (or lack thereof) they choose to play by. The outcome isn't guaranteed. The Cops or the Cowboys don't always have to win in the end.
Overall, I believe that people liked playing Dungeons & Dragons and other tabletop RPGs because they wanted to know what it was like to live in a Fantasy World (whether Medieval Fantasy, Futuristic Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk/Space Opera, Alternate Reality Modern Day Superhero, or Gothic Horror, etc.). This, of course, meant that their gaming sessions would involve a lot more than just combat and dungeon crawling. Depending on the skill of the DM/GM, the players could become influential actors in an almost living, breathing world which was limited only by their own imaginations. Now I know an MMORPG can't do anything and everything a P&P/Tabletop MMORPG can do. But I do believe that they can get a lot closer to Tabletop RPGs than they are currently.
4-10 "friends" sitting around a table, face to face vs thousands of anonymous internet players. Good comparison and expectation.
You can not try to get a tabletop experience in a video game. I've tried for 40 years. Single player games don't react like a DM/GM does and choices are very limited by coding. MMORPgs are just too huge to mirror tabletop RPGs' intimate experience.
"Changing the world" is so much different between 4-10 "friends" face to face around a table than thousands of anonymous strangers on the internet. You see actual human beings and the only opposition you have is the DM/GM around that table. Your "group" is in accord in the changes they make, unless you are all agreed to play an "evil campaign", then it will play out differently, and more than likely break down friendships.
MMORPGs by contrast are thousands of individuals (maybe a small group of "friends") playing the same game. Now you have thousands for opposition to your changes AND the development team. What do you actually believe you could do?
I come from a cooperative group of tabletop roleplayers. Opposition for me is wrong to my very core of enjoyment. That's where I come from. We had one GM for Traveller that set us all against each other and that game ended prematurely and tested many friendships. It was NOT fun for any of us, except the GM. Give me NPCs to hinder or oppose and I'm cool. Give me other human beings and I won't touch it. I'm too empathetic, believe it or not
I'm not against discussing ideas or theories. It's when discussions become fanatical that become tiresome. You may think your ideas have never been thought of before. That's quite a feat considering the number of video game players that think about this stuff all over the planet in many different cultures and varied perspectives. To think that you, Ancient_Exile alone has ever had these thoughts is a bit narcissistic, don't you think? Or is birthing brand new ideas common for you?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
4-10 "friends" sitting around a table, face to face vs thousands of anonymous internet players. Good comparison and expectation.
You can not try to get a tabletop experience in a video game. I've tried for 40 years. Single player games don't react like a DM/GM does and choices are very limited by coding. MMORPgs are just too huge to mirror tabletop RPGs' intimate experience.
"Changing the world" is so much different between 4-10 "friends" face to face around a table than thousands of anonymous strangers on the internet. You see actual human beings and the only opposition you have is the DM/GM around that table. Your "group" is in accord in the changes they make, unless you are all agreed to play an "evil campaign", then it will play out differently, and more than likely break down friendships.
MMORPGs by contrast are thousands of individuals (maybe a small group of "friends") playing the same game. Now you have thousands for opposition to your changes AND the development team. What do you actually believe you could do?
I come from a cooperative group of tabletop roleplayers. Opposition for me is wrong to my very core of enjoyment. That's where I come from. We had one GM for Traveller that set us all against each other and that game ended prematurely and tested many friendships. It was NOT fun for any of us, except the GM. Give me NPCs to hinder or oppose and I'm cool. Give me other human beings and I won't touch it. I'm too empathetic, believe it or not
I'm not against discussing ideas or theories. It's when discussions become fanatical that become tiresome. You may think your ideas have never been thought of before. That's quite a feat considering the number of video game players that think about this stuff all over the planet in many different cultures and varied perspectives. To think that you, Ancient_Exile alone has ever had these thoughts is a bit narcissistic, don't you think? Or is birthing brand new ideas common for you?
I'm not sure if I said that I'm the first one to ever think about these things or come up with ideas like this. I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world, and I don't care if my ideas are original or not. I just think it would be cool if there was one MMORPG out there that employs these ideas and/or similar ideas in a functional and successful way. I would like the chance to play/experience a game such as the one I've described.
And, look, many games require both competition and cooperation. Life itself often involves both competition and cooperation. Many may prefer that everyone would stop competing with each and cooperate, but we know this will never be the case as long as corrupt mortals (and/or corrupt supernatural beings) have any significant amount of control or influence over the world. Even something as basic as finding a spouse. Best friends have been known to fall in love with the same woman and compete over her affections. It's not fun or cool, but it's reality.
Anyway, here's something I wrote in another thread recently:
Notes on PVP in MMORPGs
Mature players (I
would hope) don't want to play PVP in MMORPGs for the sheer joy of
killing another person's character. No, that is not what they seek.
Instead, what they want from PVP is increased challenge and risk.
Unpredictable challenge and risk. More tangible and immediate Risk vs
Reward. Higher levels of excitement and interest. More options in how
they play the game and interact with other Player Characters, Non-Player
Characters, Mobs, and the Game World itself. And more important
choices that actually matter.
Also, PVP
MMORPGs make it much easier for PCs (Player Characters) to effect the
game world in meaningful ways. Raising or lowering the Wealth, Power,
and Influence of a Faction or Alliance of Factions in the game world.
Territory and Resource Control. Territorial Expansion. Gaining,
guarding, or losing trade routes or access to foreign markets. Changing
leadership of a Faction. Wining, losing, participating, or even
switching sides in a war. Helping, harming, or even betraying a
Faction. Etc. Basically these players may be looking for a more
realistic/more interactive/more non-linear sort of Lord of the
Rings/Game of Thrones Online. Though it doesn't have to be Medieval
Fantasy. Any genre of MMORPG can be designed like this. In short, a
Non-Linear, Dynamic, Persistent, Virtual World as opposed to a Linear,
Static, and Persistent Game World.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Mature players (I
would hope) don't want to play PVP in MMORPGs for the sheer joy of
killing another person's character. No, that is not what they seek.
Instead, what they want from PVP is increased challenge and risk.
Unpredictable challenge and risk. More tangible and immediate Risk vs
Reward. Higher levels of excitement and interest. More options in how
they play the game and interact with other Player Characters, Non-Player
Characters, Mobs, and the Game World itself. And more important
choices that actually matter.
You are very close on that one. Quantic Foundry did a survey once on this:
For older gamers, strategy is the motivator. But also, older gamers seek competition (i.e. PVP) less than younger gamers.
I believe one major reason older gamers might not like PVP in MMORPGs is because of the lack of overall fairness. I can't really think of any PVP or PVP/PVE MMORPGs that I would call fair. Can you? (Note: I don't mean that every battle, encounter, or situation should be fair, but that the game should be overall fair. As in every player, group, and/or faction has the same chance of winning, succeeding, fighting back, or getting revenge as every other player, group, and/or faction.)
And I'll take a look at that article you linked.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Mature players (I
would hope) don't want to play PVP in MMORPGs for the sheer joy of
killing another person's character. No, that is not what they seek.
Instead, what they want from PVP is increased challenge and risk.
Unpredictable challenge and risk. More tangible and immediate Risk vs
Reward. Higher levels of excitement and interest. More options in how
they play the game and interact with other Player Characters, Non-Player
Characters, Mobs, and the Game World itself. And more important
choices that actually matter.
You are very close on that one. Quantic Foundry did a survey once on this:
For older gamers, strategy is the motivator. But also, older gamers seek competition (i.e. PVP) less than younger gamers. I do associate age with maturity here. My apologies, younger folks.
I'm over 35 myself. Actually a little over 40.
It's not so much the possibility of competition that appeals to me. It's the possibility of creating a Non-Linear, Dynamic, Persistent Virtual World that is the most appealing. As well as the increased need to employ better strategies in order to survive and thrive in such a world. Also, competition makes cooperation much more important and vital.
I've already experienced what the Final Fantasy/Everquest/World of Warcraft-type MMORPGs offer. To me, they are bland, predictable, repetitive, and sterile. Honestly, I recently had more fun playing Single Player RPGs and Turn-based Strategy War games than I have had playing MMORPGs in a long time. Even an Arena 'MMORPG' game I started playing a couple months ago seems more fun. Not that it's a great game, but I have more important choices that actually matter in that game as opposed to the majority of MMORPGs.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I believe one major reason older gamers might not like PVP in MMORPGs is because of the lack of overall fairness. I can't really think of any PVP or PVP/PVE MMORPGs that I would call fair. Can you?
And I'll take a look at that article you linked.
Foxhole. Players only have rank as a form of recognition from other players commending them. No skill, class or level difference. Map resets after each war (every month or so) when the victory conditions are met. Late-comers have no uphill battle apart from learning the game. Gear is the same for both Wardens and Colonials.
The only "unfairness" can come from number imbalance (at the start of each war both factions are usually close to capacity and there are measures to encourage pop balances through the war) and player skill. Kinda, big but different discussion there. And there were interesting comebacks in wars a couple of times.
The reason older gamers are less interested in PVP is declining interest to compete, according to the linked study.
That's cool. I'm not really interested in that genre though.
And, yes, I did read the article, and I can understand. Older men have more responsibilities and concerns, less time to play, and less testosterone overall. Maybe less patience for idiots as well.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Ancient_Exile said: I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world, and I don't care if my ideas are original or not. I just think it would be cool if there was one MMORPG out there that employs these ideas and/or similar ideas in a functional and successful way. I would like the chance to play/experience a game such as the one I've described.
...so you do not care either about purpose nor outcome, you just spit out w/e random crap is on your mind because you can.
And you still don't find such endeavor silly or pointless? What kind of reaction do you expect?
Don't get me wrong, pretty much all posts here are in the same bag with yours so you aren't doing anything extraordinary.
I believe one major reason older gamers might not like PVP in MMORPGs is because of the lack of overall fairness. I can't really think of any PVP or PVP/PVE MMORPGs that I would call fair. Can you?
And I'll take a look at that article you linked.
Foxhole. Players only have rank as a form of recognition from other players commending them. No skill, class or level difference. Map resets after each war (every month or so) when the victory conditions are met. Late-comers have no uphill battle apart from learning the game. Gear is the same for both Wardens and Colonials.
The only "unfairness" can come from number imbalance (at the start of each war both factions are usually close to capacity and there are measures to encourage pop balances through the war) and player skill. Kinda, big but different discussion there. And there were interesting comebacks in wars a couple of times.
The reason older gamers are less interested in PVP is declining interest to compete, according to the linked study.
That's cool. I'm not really interested in that genre though.
And, yes, I did read the article, and I can understand. Older men have more responsibilities and concerns, less time to play, and less testosterone overall. Maybe less patience for idiots as well.
No probs Again, not to be misunderstood, I am not trying to sell the game, was just answering the question along with an explanation.
The issue is, though, you will never find a game that ticks all your boxes. You can hope for one that ticks most. And that's because lots of these boxes are just personal taste, not the better choice. So you always find your boxes matched with other peoples' boxes that you don't like
I understand what you're saying.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Ancient_Exile said: I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world, and I don't care if my ideas are original or not. I just think it would be cool if there was one MMORPG out there that employs these ideas and/or similar ideas in a functional and successful way. I would like the chance to play/experience a game such as the one I've described.
...so you do not care either about purpose nor outcome, you just spit out w/e random crap is on your mind because you can.
And you still don't find such endeavor silly or pointless? What kind of reaction do you expect?
Don't get me wrong, pretty much all posts here are in the same bag with yours so you aren't doing anything extraordinary.
What do you mean I don't care about purpose or outcome?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Ancient_Exile said: I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world, and I don't care if my ideas are original or not. I just think it would be cool if there was one MMORPG out there that employs these ideas and/or similar ideas in a functional and successful way. I would like the chance to play/experience a game such as the one I've described.
...so you do not care either about purpose nor outcome, you just spit out w/e random crap is on your mind because you can.
And you still don't find such endeavor silly or pointless? What kind of reaction do you expect?
Don't get me wrong, pretty much all posts here are in the same bag with yours so you aren't doing anything extraordinary.
What do you mean I don't care about purpose or outcome?
It's not bad to have some ideas on what you want from a MMORPG. You will get different opinions and definitions here though - semantics wars ftw. So the why is not "to share my opinions", that's the how. The why could be:
1) To get insights from others, to challenge your opinions / learn. Can be very useful. Needs an open mind.
2) To try to convince others, to try to convince a potential dev reading so you have a higher chance to get your ideal game. Doomed to fail.
3) To find others with similar tastes and share recommendations / games. Can be very useful.
4) To have fun in forum PVP. Can be lots of fun as long as you can take some jabs youself too
If I get that correctly, he is asking what the "endgame" is here. What are you trying to achieve. Given my quote above it is obvious what I expect to get out of it.
EDIT: well, actually, not asking, accusing that there is none :P
Well, a lot of people are already playing substandard, inferior, and poorly designed MMORPGs. Designed mainly to separate people from their money without providing them a worthwhile experience in return, IMHO. So why not make an MMORPG that will actually be fun to play for more than a few weeks to a month for the majority of players? Better than watching TV and movies, in any case. Or playing single player games bereft of any kind of interaction with other humans. Which is what a lot of people/gamers would be doing if they weren't playing the MMORPGs they're playing now. Which many of the people who visit this site may be doing at the moment. If they aren't working, sleeping, or spending time with friends and loved ones.
I'm not saying that playing video games or MMORPGs is the best possible way these people could be spending their time. But since they're already gonna do it anyway, why not give them a better game to play?
MMORPGs could be used as great teaching tools as well. If they were made to help people experience what it's really like to work in a certain field or engage in a certain profession. A modern day MMORPG could even be made to teach people about the real world and how it actually works. Older people might not benefit as much from this, but younger people certainly would.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
This is my personal view small caveat before I start but I dislike PvP games not because of the PvP itself but the community it creates. Of course I'm not painting every player with the same brush but because of the nature and age I think of the gamer that indulges in the strong PvP they bring out the worst and perhaps it can be argued the best in people. It is the ugliness though I want to avoid the chat, the boasting, the anger the unpleasantness it engenders. It is something you cannot code or change in a game, the players, they will always be obnoxious.
I am not saying that PvE players are not obnoxious but because of the way the PvE games are structured you can avoid the obnoxious PvE player but the obnoxious PvP player will engage you even when you don't want to. In fact it will be a main motivation for them to engage you the fact that you wish to have nothing to do with them. PvE players tend to work together and in that situation you need to work mostly with people with common goals and generally a player you dislike will not try to join you in a common endeavour.
I also agree on the unfairness because I'm an old player so my reactions are also very slow. I try to avoid these PvP games but if they have systems I enjoy like Archeage and Black Desert Online I will play it and ignore the PvP in favour of the systems like trade and farming that I do like. Or games where they put the PvP in zones I don't have to go to like ESO and Aion, even Anarchy Online.
I have never found a PvP game where a gamer like me can be happy. The only ones will be where I can be pretty much left alone like Black Desert Online to farm, collect resources, unlock nodes, fish and explore. I had fun in the game but it was a pretty lonely existence, so in the end I left.
I doubt I can avoid PvP games but if I can avoid the PvP I will play them. My age may be a big contributing factor being over 60. I really have no stomach for PvP. I do however enjoy games where I can heal and keep people alive and in Warhammer I played the mage the one that could heal and enjoyed scenarios and in WoW I have also done BGs which I enjoyed tremendously. However those BGs take so much out of me that I am unable to do much all day because my hands hurt and I am tired from all the excess adrenaline that roared through my system during the confrontations. This is the main reason I avoid games that will not allow me to choose when I want to PvP. I cannot handle it. That is the fact of my own limitations.
Comments
I like milk, no sugar
It would definitely be far more more entertaining, for sure!
Any takers? Form an orderly queue and stop pushing at the back!!
Deitys also pretty well done in EQ 2 , failry extensive and good quest line , then you can get a shrine to your Deity you can place in your house by donating you gain favor which then you can use to be granted some very good prayers .. . Any serious EQ2 Player is gaining favor and prayers from there deity near daily
Given, I mean I came across like TrembleBones, from GW2, where says "No one is arguing the need for a plan, yours is just stupid and won't work"
Truly an underrated character in that game, as I found her hilarious!
I thought it was just a place to hang out and
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes, I played EQ2 back in 2014. However, I'm thinking of a game where the deities take a more active role in the game world. Though, of course, this is not absolutely necessary. Factions in the game world can function without them.
You're so full of it.
Except he scored a shot for the other team.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
And you still don't find such endeavor silly or pointless? What kind of reaction do you expect?
Don't get me wrong, pretty much all posts here are in the same bag with yours so you aren't doing anything extraordinary.
I understand what you're saying.
What do you mean I don't care about purpose or outcome?
I am not saying that PvE players are not obnoxious but because of the way the PvE games are structured you can avoid the obnoxious PvE player but the obnoxious PvP player will engage you even when you don't want to. In fact it will be a main motivation for them to engage you the fact that you wish to have nothing to do with them. PvE players tend to work together and in that situation you need to work mostly with people with common goals and generally a player you dislike will not try to join you in a common endeavour.
I also agree on the unfairness because I'm an old player so my reactions are also very slow. I try to avoid these PvP games but if they have systems I enjoy like Archeage and Black Desert Online I will play it and ignore the PvP in favour of the systems like trade and farming that I do like. Or games where they put the PvP in zones I don't have to go to like ESO and Aion, even Anarchy Online.
I have never found a PvP game where a gamer like me can be happy. The only ones will be where I can be pretty much left alone like Black Desert Online to farm, collect resources, unlock nodes, fish and explore. I had fun in the game but it was a pretty lonely existence, so in the end I left.
I doubt I can avoid PvP games but if I can avoid the PvP I will play them. My age may be a big contributing factor being over 60. I really have no stomach for PvP. I do however enjoy games where I can heal and keep people alive and in Warhammer I played the mage the one that could heal and enjoyed scenarios and in WoW I have also done BGs which I enjoyed tremendously. However those BGs take so much out of me that I am unable to do much all day because my hands hurt and I am tired from all the excess adrenaline that roared through my system during the confrontations. This is the main reason I avoid games that will not allow me to choose when I want to PvP. I cannot handle it. That is the fact of my own limitations.