Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
There lies maybe the BIGGEST factor in a successful pvp design>>>cheat protection,is it even possible?I have NEVER sen it work,so there you go.If someone can solve cheating,you have the first big major step in the right direction.
This is the problem with people like you. You assume that because you are incapable of something the people who can do it MUST be cheating. I encountered almost no cheaters in DFO. I played at a relatively high level and was called a cheater by people like yourself many, many times. The only times I called out a cheater was when they did the "actual impossible". shooting someone with a fireball from 80meters on the run isn't impossible or hard. It's called practice.
You've never seen cheat protection work because you refuse to believe people are just better than you. It really is as simple as that.
Sorry but your assumption is NOT correct.I am not just person who randomly thinks "cheat" i actually research it and because i have researched it for so many years,i can spot a cheat rather easily. Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
There lies maybe the BIGGEST factor in a successful pvp design>>>cheat protection,is it even possible?I have NEVER sen it work,so there you go.If someone can solve cheating,you have the first big major step in the right direction.
This is the problem with people like you. You assume that because you are incapable of something the people who can do it MUST be cheating. I encountered almost no cheaters in DFO. I played at a relatively high level and was called a cheater by people like yourself many, many times. The only times I called out a cheater was when they did the "actual impossible". shooting someone with a fireball from 80meters on the run isn't impossible or hard. It's called practice.
You've never seen cheat protection work because you refuse to believe people are just better than you. It really is as simple as that.
Sorry but your assumption is NOT correct.I am not just person who randomly thinks "cheat" i actually research it and because i have researched it for so many years,i can spot a cheat rather easily. Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
So what you say the percentage of cheaters are in -
Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
There lies maybe the BIGGEST factor in a successful pvp design>>>cheat protection,is it even possible?I have NEVER sen it work,so there you go.If someone can solve cheating,you have the first big major step in the right direction.
This is the problem with people like you. You assume that because you are incapable of something the people who can do it MUST be cheating. I encountered almost no cheaters in DFO. I played at a relatively high level and was called a cheater by people like yourself many, many times. The only times I called out a cheater was when they did the "actual impossible". shooting someone with a fireball from 80meters on the run isn't impossible or hard. It's called practice.
You've never seen cheat protection work because you refuse to believe people are just better than you. It really is as simple as that.
Sorry but your assumption is NOT correct.I am not just person who randomly thinks "cheat" i actually research it and because i have researched it for so many years,i can spot a cheat rather easily. Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
So what you say the percentage of cheaters are in -
WoW Fortnite League of Legends
Well in 2018, Blizzard won a case against Bossland, a Hack Program maker, for 8.5 Million Dollars. This was one case, against one provider.. for 8.5 Million Dollars.
Bossland, who was also being sued by other games, and laughed off and dismissed those claims as well, flatly said that "Cheating is not against the law".
Legally, so far, that has been upheld in court in Europe, and no doubt their clients have the same audacious outlook on using hack and chat programs.
Since obviously it's very profitable to make these programs, I would wager it's a lot higher percent than the 1% you could guarantee.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
There lies maybe the BIGGEST factor in a successful pvp design>>>cheat protection,is it even possible?I have NEVER sen it work,so there you go.If someone can solve cheating,you have the first big major step in the right direction.
This is the problem with people like you. You assume that because you are incapable of something the people who can do it MUST be cheating. I encountered almost no cheaters in DFO. I played at a relatively high level and was called a cheater by people like yourself many, many times. The only times I called out a cheater was when they did the "actual impossible". shooting someone with a fireball from 80meters on the run isn't impossible or hard. It's called practice.
You've never seen cheat protection work because you refuse to believe people are just better than you. It really is as simple as that.
Sorry but your assumption is NOT correct.I am not just person who randomly thinks "cheat" i actually research it and because i have researched it for so many years,i can spot a cheat rather easily. Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
So what you say the percentage of cheaters are in -
WoW Fortnite League of Legends
Well in 2018, Blizzard won a case against Bossland, a Hack Program maker, for 8.5 Million Dollars. This was one case, against one provider.. for 8.5 Million Dollars.
Bossland, who was also being sued by other games, and laughed off and dismissed those claims as well, flatly said that "Cheating is not against the law".
Legally, so far, that has been upheld in court in Europe, and no doubt their clients have the same audacious outlook on using hack and chat programs.
Since obviously it's very profitable to make these programs, I would wager it's a lot higher percent than the 1% you could guarantee.
"Cheating is not against the law".'
And they say that humans are incapable of creating heaven on earth.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Also.. I think I would make combat drawn out, unlike modern games, where fights are resolves in seconds, I think I would set it up so that it would take a while to kill another player, like a duel could last 10 min easy.
I mean mainly because if I plan to make a game Perma-death, I don't want to make killing another player easy.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
There lies maybe the BIGGEST factor in a successful pvp design>>>cheat protection,is it even possible?I have NEVER sen it work,so there you go.If someone can solve cheating,you have the first big major step in the right direction.
This is the problem with people like you. You assume that because you are incapable of something the people who can do it MUST be cheating. I encountered almost no cheaters in DFO. I played at a relatively high level and was called a cheater by people like yourself many, many times. The only times I called out a cheater was when they did the "actual impossible". shooting someone with a fireball from 80meters on the run isn't impossible or hard. It's called practice.
You've never seen cheat protection work because you refuse to believe people are just better than you. It really is as simple as that.
Sorry but your assumption is NOT correct.I am not just person who randomly thinks "cheat" i actually research it and because i have researched it for so many years,i can spot a cheat rather easily. Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
You did research. Wow. It's almost unbelievable how ridiculous people can be.
Did it work for open pvp,no because people were cheating.Like how did they honestly THINK a 3-5 second Fireball could actually hit it's target from afar?OH you lead your target dummy,umm yeah don't worry i know how to play pvp lol.
All that research really paid off there, bud. Your sleuth skills are surging. Utter brilliance.
I think my ideal PVP rule set would follow very similar to Eve Online, but not in space. I like Eve's implementation because it allows for kills to occur anywhere, but not without instant penalty on the aggressor in high security areas. You lose most if not all your equipment depending on your preparation and you lose alignment that is (or was) very time consuming to get back.
I would take it a step further and split standing into each of the factions. Something along the lines of EQs faction depth would be incredible. Your faction standing would be affected by your actions toward your faction or their allies. Positive faction standing would be acquired only through missions/tasks or killing faction enemy npc's only. That way there's no farming standing on an alt.
The lawless areas would not prevent you from losing faction standing, but there would be no policing. So if you killed someone from your own faction you don't die, but you lose the ability to return home. You also lose out on any faction bonuses and benefits and must spend copious amounts of effort/time to either recoup your faction standing or even longer to switch to another faction.
The primary focus of this would be faction based warfare but allow the freedom for people to become pirates if they so choose.
Opposing factions would be considered outlaws within your faction area and just like in Eve the standing of the area they are in would determine the level of protection faction players would have and vice versa allowing the possibility for some areas to be infiltrated and attacked while others are virtually impossible to enter. This gives plenty of safety for people to run missions, farm, collect goods, etc.
There definitely needs to be some consideration into faction balancing, but that's probably another discussion entirely.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
With a dev team/investors who won't cave to PVE crybabies who aren't happy with the 95% of the games that are made for them already.
That's nice.. so tell me more about this game you would build.
Apparently one with a team of devs / investors not too interested in making a bunch o' money .
Not sure such a thing exists these days.
Yah. but I didn't care about the fiscal feasibility of such a game, simply the idea if you had the freedom to make one, what would make.
Personally as I said in my OP, if I was going to make an OWPVP game, it would be designed around the idea of players having full freedom in their worlds to make them as they like, but with the working premise of Perma-Death. This way the PvP serves the purpose to drive out and get rid of anyone you don't want in your world.
If you are a dumbass, and drive everyone out of your world, then all you do is hurt yourself.
Actions and Consequences.. I thought it was a novel idea.. seems some here don't like the concept.
I don't believe there is any point to consider designs for any type of game without considering the fiscal feasibility of the ideas right up front.
But in the spirit of your OP, I'd make a medevial version of EVE, with a bit more emphasis on "safer" regions being pretty damn safe unless aggressors were willing to face some very arduous consequences for their misdeeds.
At one time a single pod kill in high sec could mean weeks of punishing and quite dangerous grinding in pentinance but over the years CCP decided to increasingly favor aggressors for reasons I disagree with.
If I were making such a game, definitely would be some differences.
Finally, EVE is a MMORPG which comes closer to your desire for actions with consequences, more than any other game I have played.
Of course there benefit to not thinking about the fiscal aspect, as I have no idea how to P2W my idea.
I doubt I would have an issue with population, as I wager quite a few people would play it, while some might treat it more like a battle ground then an MMO, it would have a lot of activity, just due to the whole vast open world foundation, and freedom to do whatever you want. I wager some people would just try to see how many holes they could blow into the landscape before they were killed, but the joy of the idea is that it would welcome all kinds of players all with their own goals, and I don't even need to write flavor text.
In fact, as a developer, my only goal would be building and optimizing systems and mechanics, to give players more to do with the world I have given them to play with.
I think it would be a great test in seeing how people reacted to such environments and what kind of worlds ended getting made, like one huge social experiment.
I like your idea as well, always wondered why they didn't make an Fantasy MMO based on EvE's systems, sounds like it would have been epic, or at the very least, maybe a Cyberpunk setting.
Well, for a time after CCP bought White Wolf and spent 3 or 4 years on a Vampire Masquerade MMORPG many thought there might be one.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With a dev team/investors who won't cave to PVE crybabies who aren't happy with the 95% of the games that are made for them already.
That's nice.. so tell me more about this game you would build.
Apparently one with a team of devs / investors not too interested in making a bunch o' money .
Not sure such a thing exists these days.
Yah. but I didn't care about the fiscal feasibility of such a game, simply the idea if you had the freedom to make one, what would make.
Personally as I said in my OP, if I was going to make an OWPVP game, it would be designed around the idea of players having full freedom in their worlds to make them as they like, but with the working premise of Perma-Death. This way the PvP serves the purpose to drive out and get rid of anyone you don't want in your world.
If you are a dumbass, and drive everyone out of your world, then all you do is hurt yourself.
Actions and Consequences.. I thought it was a novel idea.. seems some here don't like the concept.
I don't believe there is any point to consider designs for any type of game without considering the fiscal feasibility of the ideas right up front.
But in the spirit of your OP, I'd make a medevial version of EVE, with a bit more emphasis on "safer" regions being pretty damn safe unless aggressors were willing to face some very arduous consequences for their misdeeds.
At one time a single pod kill in high sec could mean weeks of punishing and quite dangerous grinding in pentinance but over the years CCP decided to increasingly favor aggressors for reasons I disagree with.
If I were making such a game, definitely would be some differences.
Finally, EVE is a MMORPG which comes closer to your desire for actions with consequences, more than any other game I have played.
Of course there benefit to not thinking about the fiscal aspect, as I have no idea how to P2W my idea.
I doubt I would have an issue with population, as I wager quite a few people would play it, while some might treat it more like a battle ground then an MMO, it would have a lot of activity, just due to the whole vast open world foundation, and freedom to do whatever you want. I wager some people would just try to see how many holes they could blow into the landscape before they were killed, but the joy of the idea is that it would welcome all kinds of players all with their own goals, and I don't even need to write flavor text.
In fact, as a developer, my only goal would be building and optimizing systems and mechanics, to give players more to do with the world I have given them to play with.
I think it would be a great test in seeing how people reacted to such environments and what kind of worlds ended getting made, like one huge social experiment.
I like your idea as well, always wondered why they didn't make an Fantasy MMO based on EvE's systems, sounds like it would have been epic, or at the very least, maybe a Cyberpunk setting.
Well, for a time after CCP bought White Wolf and spent 3 or 4 years on a Vampire Masquerade MMORPG many thought there might be one.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
Could also just be a aspect of having a very devout core foundation of players that has kept EvE alive, I wager a lot of other older nitche' games live on that as well.
Which is also why I believe that a developer should know their demographic and focus on them, and be damned anyone else, because have you noticed that when game devs try to appease some other group of players, or change the game around to be more appealing, they often end up screwing over their core base and messing up what made their game great to start with.
But that is a tragedy that they never went through with the Vampire game, in fact Masquerade I think would have been a great game for what EvE was like.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
With a dev team/investors who won't cave to PVE crybabies who aren't happy with the 95% of the games that are made for them already.
That's nice.. so tell me more about this game you would build.
Apparently one with a team of devs / investors not too interested in making a bunch o' money .
Not sure such a thing exists these days.
Yah. but I didn't care about the fiscal feasibility of such a game, simply the idea if you had the freedom to make one, what would make.
Personally as I said in my OP, if I was going to make an OWPVP game, it would be designed around the idea of players having full freedom in their worlds to make them as they like, but with the working premise of Perma-Death. This way the PvP serves the purpose to drive out and get rid of anyone you don't want in your world.
If you are a dumbass, and drive everyone out of your world, then all you do is hurt yourself.
Actions and Consequences.. I thought it was a novel idea.. seems some here don't like the concept.
I don't believe there is any point to consider designs for any type of game without considering the fiscal feasibility of the ideas right up front.
But in the spirit of your OP, I'd make a medevial version of EVE, with a bit more emphasis on "safer" regions being pretty damn safe unless aggressors were willing to face some very arduous consequences for their misdeeds.
At one time a single pod kill in high sec could mean weeks of punishing and quite dangerous grinding in pentinance but over the years CCP decided to increasingly favor aggressors for reasons I disagree with.
If I were making such a game, definitely would be some differences.
Finally, EVE is a MMORPG which comes closer to your desire for actions with consequences, more than any other game I have played.
Of course there benefit to not thinking about the fiscal aspect, as I have no idea how to P2W my idea.
I doubt I would have an issue with population, as I wager quite a few people would play it, while some might treat it more like a battle ground then an MMO, it would have a lot of activity, just due to the whole vast open world foundation, and freedom to do whatever you want. I wager some people would just try to see how many holes they could blow into the landscape before they were killed, but the joy of the idea is that it would welcome all kinds of players all with their own goals, and I don't even need to write flavor text.
In fact, as a developer, my only goal would be building and optimizing systems and mechanics, to give players more to do with the world I have given them to play with.
I think it would be a great test in seeing how people reacted to such environments and what kind of worlds ended getting made, like one huge social experiment.
I like your idea as well, always wondered why they didn't make an Fantasy MMO based on EvE's systems, sounds like it would have been epic, or at the very least, maybe a Cyberpunk setting.
Well, for a time after CCP bought White Wolf and spent 3 or 4 years on a Vampire Masquerade MMORPG many thought there might be one.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
Could also just be a aspect of having a very devout core foundation of players that has kept EvE alive, I wager a lot of other older nitche' games live on that as well.
Which is also why I believe that a developer should know their demographic and focus on them, and be damned anyone else, because have you noticed that when game devs try to appease some other group of players, or change the game around to be more appealing, they often end up screwing over their core base and messing up what made their game great to start with.
But that is a tragedy that they never went through with the Vampire game, in fact Masquerade I think would have been a great game for what EvE was like.
You are correct, EVE’s initial success was a combination of good timing / luck when EA shut down Earth and Beyond, followed closely by SOE screwing the pooch with SWG NGE which sent a flood of space loving gamers over to EVE.
Their longevity comes from always focusing on their core group of gamers, the more hard core PVP crowd and they have more or less are continuing today to try and find ways to encourage more player interaction aka conflict, being what EVE has always been about.
Sure, sub numbers declined, but who doesn’t expect that for a game almost 17 years old. I had a great 10 year run there, no regrets other than I can’t find a good reason to go back, and have found nothing to really replace it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, for a time after CCP bought White Wolf and spent 3 or 4 years on a Vampire Masquerade MMORPG many thought there might be one.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
Could also just be a aspect of having a very devout core foundation of players that has kept EvE alive, I wager a lot of other older nitche' games live on that as well.
Which is also why I believe that a developer should know their demographic and focus on them, and be damned anyone else, because have you noticed that when game devs try to appease some other group of players, or change the game around to be more appealing, they often end up screwing over their core base and messing up what made their game great to start with.
But that is a tragedy that they never went through with the Vampire game, in fact Masquerade I think would have been a great game for what EvE was like.
You are correct, EVE’s initial success was a combination of good timing / luck when EA shut down Earth and Beyond, followed closely by SOE screwing the pooch with SWG NGE which sent a flood of space loving gamers over to EVE.
Their longevity comes from always focusing on their core group of gamers, the more hard core PVP crowd and they have more or less are continuing today to try and find ways to encourage more player interaction aka conflict, being what EVE has always been about.
Sure, sub numbers declined, but who doesn’t expect that for a game almost 17 years old. I had a great 10 year run there, no regrets other than I can’t find a good reason to go back, and have found nothing to really replace it.
I think a lot of older nitche' games have returning player base for the very reason you just said "I can't find anything to replace it" so, obviously if you have an itch for that kind of game, and nothing else is out there, that is the most compelling reason to return to the one game that has what you want.
I wager this is also why so many WoW-clones failed hard, because it was very easy for players to find something else to replace it with, as there was nothing truly unique or special about their game that inspired players to keep coming back.
This is also a pox that can plague any somewhat successful game as well, because they trry things to draw in a larger audience, but they end up shooting themselves in the process by killing what made them uniquely attractive to start with, as opposed to taking what made them special and focusing on expanding upon that principal or idea.
This I wager is why some very nitche' games are still rolling along with their albeit small but dependable player base, while other AAA titles are struggling and floundering because their player base is very free to come and go as they please because their game does not have a unique hook.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well, for a time after CCP bought White Wolf and spent 3 or 4 years on a Vampire Masquerade MMORPG many thought there might be one.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
Did CCP export a lot of their factories to Endor or Kashyyyk? Or did they start replacing too many of their Vulcan workers with Klingon immigrants?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Also many people are just naive,cheating most certainly was in DFO ,so you were either naive or not capable enough to spot it.
True fact,way back in the early 2000's when i was baffled as to why so many started to play Counterstrike and hearing so much about cheating,i did some research.In about 1-2 hours i uncovered 15...FIFTEEN pages of different cheats,i was not surprised there was a lot but was surprised at how many.
My purpose isn't to belittle DFO anyhow,the game simply wasn't very good.My point is that cheating does exist on a VERY high level,i still see it often enough.The area of cheating gained new ground when i was playing COD because the young kids for some reason did not ridicule the idea but praised it.Those kids would actually curse anyone that complained,they would say things like "your jealous because you are not smart enough to hack the game"of course i would laugh at that stupid mentality.
I mean you would have to be EXTREMELY naive to not see the games adding anti cheat right before your eyes,it is really THAT obvious.To IGNORE cheating is to simply make a BAD game because it will cater to those who like to cheat.
Then on this very topic,NOBODY here can design a HQ owpvp game in a few chat paragraphs,the end result would be typical of all the bad game designs we already have.you would need MANY pages of system designs and equations and scripts to make a HQ game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Fortnite
League of Legends
Bossland, who was also being sued by other games, and laughed off and dismissed those claims as well, flatly said that "Cheating is not against the law".
Legally, so far, that has been upheld in court in Europe, and no doubt their clients have the same audacious outlook on using hack and chat programs.
Since obviously it's very profitable to make these programs, I would wager it's a lot higher percent than the 1% you could guarantee.
I mean mainly because if I plan to make a game Perma-death, I don't want to make killing another player easy.
All that research really paid off there, bud. Your sleuth skills are surging. Utter brilliance.
However their management got cold feet I guess when time (cost) to develop began to extend with no clear end in sight, so they killed not only this effort but also stopped work on EVEs walking in stations project.
I loved EVE but their management failed to deliver on any of their many (like 6 or more) attempts to being a new game to fruition, apparently the success of their flagship title was more of a matter of luck than skill.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which is also why I believe that a developer should know their demographic and focus on them, and be damned anyone else, because have you noticed that when game devs try to appease some other group of players, or change the game around to be more appealing, they often end up screwing over their core base and messing up what made their game great to start with.
But that is a tragedy that they never went through with the Vampire game, in fact Masquerade I think would have been a great game for what EvE was like.
Their longevity comes from always focusing on their core group of gamers, the more hard core PVP crowd and they have more or less are continuing today to try and find ways to encourage more player interaction aka conflict, being what EVE has always been about.
Sure, sub numbers declined, but who doesn’t expect that for a game almost 17 years old. I had a great 10 year run there, no regrets other than I can’t find a good reason to go back, and have found nothing to really replace it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I wager this is also why so many WoW-clones failed hard, because it was very easy for players to find something else to replace it with, as there was nothing truly unique or special about their game that inspired players to keep coming back.
This is also a pox that can plague any somewhat successful game as well, because they trry things to draw in a larger audience, but they end up shooting themselves in the process by killing what made them uniquely attractive to start with, as opposed to taking what made them special and focusing on expanding upon that principal or idea.
This I wager is why some very nitche' games are still rolling along with their albeit small but dependable player base, while other AAA titles are struggling and floundering because their player base is very free to come and go as they please because their game does not have a unique hook.
Did CCP export a lot of their factories to Endor or Kashyyyk? Or did they start replacing too many of their Vulcan workers with Klingon immigrants?