But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
I used this example earlier, Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is: People loved Bananas. People loved 2nd gen games.
Money is trackable. Generally, MMOs today make more than old MMORPGs did. Simple math will say why: A monthly sub (spending with a ceiling) vs unlimited cash shop spending.
It may not be number of players showing (paying) their support, but businesses don't care. They want the most money they can make. 95% (made up number) of MMO players may want old type MMORPGs. It doesn't matter when businesses make more money not catering to them. Money talks. Wishes walk.
With all I say, I agree with you. It's all about the largest profit margin.
In order to do that companies had to say "lets take stuff away" and build games how want them made. And that's everything on my list.
So what needs to be done, will never be done.
Using my example is saying...... We got rid of Bananas we don't care that people liked them...... Now tell everyone Apples are great.
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
I used this example earlier, Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is: People loved Bananas. People loved 2nd gen games.
Money is trackable. Generally, MMOs today make more than old MMORPGs did. Simple math will say why: A monthly sub (spending with a ceiling) vs unlimited cash shop spending.
It may not be number of players showing (paying) their support, but businesses don't care. They want the most money they can make. 95% (made up number) of MMO players may want old type MMORPGs. It doesn't matter when businesses make more money not catering to them. Money talks. Wishes walk.
With all I say, I agree with you. It's all about the largest profit margin.
In order to do that companies had to say "lets take stuff away" and build games how want them made. And that's everything on my list.
So what needs to be done, will never be done.
Using my example is saying...... We got rid of Bananas we don't care that people liked them...... Now tell everyone Apples are great.
Except that.... Most 2nd Gen games are still running with WOW still leading the way in two different flavors.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
I used this example earlier, Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is: People loved Bananas. People loved 2nd gen games.
Money is trackable. Generally, MMOs today make more than old MMORPGs did. Simple math will say why: A monthly sub (spending with a ceiling) vs unlimited cash shop spending.
It may not be number of players showing (paying) their support, but businesses don't care. They want the most money they can make. 95% (made up number) of MMO players may want old type MMORPGs. It doesn't matter when businesses make more money not catering to them. Money talks. Wishes walk.
With all I say, I agree with you. It's all about the largest profit margin.
In order to do that companies had to say "lets take stuff away" and build games how want them made. And that's everything on my list.
So what needs to be done, will never be done.
Using my example is saying...... We got rid of Bananas we don't care that people liked them...... Now tell everyone Apples are great.
Except that.... Most 2nd Gen games are still running with WOW still leading the way in two different flavors.
In what way do you figure they were taken away?
I wouldn't think you were this naive
Current 2nd Gen games are: - changed over to 3rd Gen, easy,cash shops and all else. - Old (2004) - over played
World of Warcraft after the Burning Crusades led the way in the quest for profit margin and 3rd Gen.......... Whats it now, 8 hours from levels 1 to 130 ?
I often think of you as intelligent, but then you say stuff like this.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
Ah thanks.
I have always took the view that WoW was 2nd Gen, and games like EQ, DAoC, and UO were 1st Gen.
Pretty much anything made past 2006 is in the 2nd Gen Arena.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
I could safely say everyone's second gen best were: -World of Warcraft -Everquest 2 -Lotro -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken) -I may have missed a few
all fit
Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.
I never played any of those games, can't say I have ever been inspired to either.
But, Umm.. if WoW is your Love.. you know, it's still active, you can just keep playing it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Maybe a module system that allows for easier implementation of updating graphics while they develop intricate systems and content then focusing on graphics towards the end of development.
A mmorpg that makes all playstyles fun and rewarding, from exploring(map charting skill with very limited map knowledge to begin with and players can buy maps from others) along with random unique dungeon spawns ect.
Swiping ideas from other games like Archeage's farming system where you can plant, steal or destroy anywhere.
Runescape's skill system where all skills interact with each other in some form. Truely dynamic questing that isn't a hub and instead treated as a rare event with meaningful and great rewards.
Fluff things like treasure hunting, ect ect ect.
Most games that don't try to copy WoW only suceed in adding only 1 or 2 elements while others(Gw2) is just the old shit.
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
If your talking about going to 4th gen, then even more greed.... problem is, it's maxed out now. I don't think they can stoop any lower.
The good news is regulation is coming. It's happening in the UK and the U.S.A. right now and once those two markets ban loot boxes/gambling as a cash shop business model then the true next gen business model for MMORPGs will present itself.
I think its simple on the surface. Brand new game (like WOW) that most play and like. The game takes off and becomes popular. The game changes something that revolutionizes the genre that others can copy and make many more games from to breath life into the mmo scene.
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
If your talking about going to 4th gen, then even more greed.... problem is, it's maxed out now. I don't think they can stoop any lower.
In case you haven't noticed, there are no 4th gen MMORPGs in the works that I'm aware of really, outside of maybe SC or NW, but those are a bit of a stretch.
No, it seems to me if there really is a 4th Gen it's either all of these MMO-lite survival and multiplayer titles such as ARK, FO-76, Destiny or the perhaps the many BRs.
These all are what MMORPGs have evolved into, smaller, more specialized online multiplayer games.
Sure, there's a number of retro efforts but most are trying to being back first Gen gameplay.
"We need a newer version of a 2nd Gen game." As G-Easy would say, "that's some shit no one ever has said." (Except for WOW maybe)
Second Gen can RIP as far as me and many others here are concerned.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would not be bothered by a cosmetic only cash shop, but the problem with a cash shop is they go always beyond what they were originally selling. If this is a wish list than RvR is all I would add really.
First and foremost a
company that’s in it for passion.
Digital download
price + monthly fees, but it better be worth it (see above). It worked in the early 2000s it can work
now. Never a cash shop.
A game so large, no
expansions for years. After all you
payed for it (see both above).
Realms where players
live in and know each other. No
innovative crap, they got it right the first time.
Medium graphics and
smooth game play.
Challenging content.
NO cinema videos, no
personal story lines, and very few chain quest….. This takes players away from
playing with others.
Old fashioned
trinity system where players are dependent on other classes and no class can do
it all.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
You seem to have forgotten to finish your topic sentence.
What needs to happen.....for what? To make a good game? To make a game you enjoy? To save the genre?
Survival of mmorpgs, so we don't have to sink so low as Asian cash grab games.
Mmorpgs are for the most part dead. They are not coming back anytime soon. The new generation of gamers don't care.
The best you can hope for is a decade or two from now someone releasing a remake or a new take on the past. Maybe it will come back in style. After all, mullets seem to be back in style. I would've never thought it would happen. So there's always hope.
You know why? 99% of the gaming world is sick of the same old quest or dye and boring ass scripted dungeons and raids.
It seemed almost every game have cash shop now. Even subscription games have cash shops now. And often enough you can buy gold by buying cash shop item to sell them for gold, so essentially many games sell gold too.
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.
For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.
Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.
Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".
I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think its simple on the surface. Brand new game (like WOW) that most play and like. The game takes off and becomes popular. The game changes something that revolutionizes the genre that others can copy and make many more games from to breath life into the mmo scene.
OK so using this we can safely say that WoW started Gen 2...Has gen 3 started yet then? and if so, what game started gen 3?
I think its simple on the surface. Brand new game (like WOW) that most play and like. The game takes off and becomes popular. The game changes something that revolutionizes the genre that others can copy and make many more games from to breath life into the mmo scene.
OK so using this we can safely say that WoW started Gen 2...Has gen 3 started yet then? and if so, what game started gen 3?
I believe ESO did. The contrast can be seen in its direct competitor at the time, Wildstar which was the last AAA western gen 2 mmorpg.
First and foremost a
company that’s in it for passion.
Digital download
price + monthly fees, but it better be worth it (see above). It worked in the early 2000s it can work
now. Never a cash shop.
A game so large, no
expansions for years. After all you
payed for it (see both above).
Realms where players
live in and know each other. No
innovative crap, they got it right the first time.
Medium graphics and
smooth game play.
Challenging content.
NO cinema videos, no
personal story lines, and very few chain quest….. This takes players away from
playing with others.
Old fashioned
trinity system where players are dependent on other classes and no class can do
it all.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
You seem to have forgotten to finish your topic sentence.
What needs to happen.....for what? To make a good game? To make a game you enjoy? To save the genre?
Survival of mmorpgs, so we don't have to sink so low as Asian cash grab games.
Mmorpgs are for the most part dead. They are not coming back anytime soon. The new generation of gamers don't care.
The best you can hope for is a decade or two from now someone releasing a remake or a new take on the past. Maybe it will come back in style. After all, mullets seem to be back in style. I would've never thought it would happen. So there's always hope.
You know why? 99% of the gaming world is sick of the same old quest or dye and boring ass scripted dungeons and raids.
They are sick of PvE
I wouldn't say i am sick of PVE, but I am sick of questing as the main focus of the gameplay. I still love to explore and find new areas to play. I just don't like that so many games now build the entire game world around quests.
First and foremost a
company that’s in it for passion.
Digital download
price + monthly fees, but it better be worth it (see above). It worked in the early 2000s it can work
now. Never a cash shop.
A game so large, no
expansions for years. After all you
payed for it (see both above).
Realms where players
live in and know each other. No
innovative crap, they got it right the first time.
Medium graphics and
smooth game play.
Challenging content.
NO cinema videos, no
personal story lines, and very few chain quest….. This takes players away from
playing with others.
Old fashioned
trinity system where players are dependent on other classes and no class can do
it all.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
You seem to have forgotten to finish your topic sentence.
What needs to happen.....for what? To make a good game? To make a game you enjoy? To save the genre?
Survival of mmorpgs, so we don't have to sink so low as Asian cash grab games.
Mmorpgs are for the most part dead. They are not coming back anytime soon. The new generation of gamers don't care.
The best you can hope for is a decade or two from now someone releasing a remake or a new take on the past. Maybe it will come back in style. After all, mullets seem to be back in style. I would've never thought it would happen. So there's always hope.
You know why? 99% of the gaming world is sick of the same old quest or dye and boring ass scripted dungeons and raids.
They are sick of PvE
I wouldn't say i am sick of PVE, but I am sick of questing as the main focus of the gameplay. I still love to explore and find new areas to play. I just don't like that so many games now build the entire game world around quests.
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.
For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.
Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.
Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".
I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
Interesting turn of the thread. I always considered EQ and AC second gen (NWN, Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar and the like I personally consider first gen)
Makes no real difference though to be honest.
I mean what 'gen' a game comes out of or from is really only used by forum people about mmorpgs. I rarely see anyone write something about first gen shooters or platformers or adventure games or RTS games. I mean we all know what they are but no one ever really categorizes them as such. Like I said, interesting.
Fair point, and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to admit I don't know anything about these 3 games: Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar
But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.
EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product.
Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's
As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different.
In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.
The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.
Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.
While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.
For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.
Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.
Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".
I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
Interesting turn of the thread. I always considered EQ and AC second gen (NWN, Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar and the like I personally consider first gen)
Makes no real difference though to be honest.
I mean what 'gen' a game comes out of or from is really only used by forum people about mmorpgs. I rarely see anyone write something about first gen shooters or platformers or adventure games or RTS games. I mean we all know what they are but no one ever really categorizes them as such. Like I said, interesting.
Fair point, and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to admit I don't know anything about these 3 games: Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar
But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.
EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product.
Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's
As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different.
In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.
The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.
Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.
While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
While I was always an avid video game player since they were first invented the earliest MMOs were never on my radar.
UO and EQ1 are the two MMORPGs which brought a spotlight to the genre hence I think of them as the early FIrst Gen games, even though I never tried either.
Yes, there were earlier games which enthusiasts knew of, but for an average Joe gamer like me they were largely unknown.
Still, for simplicity I go with the definition of 1st Gen being most games before WOW.
Second includes the host of WOW clones which followed and I agree ESO and forward are probably the definition of 3rd Gen titles.
As for the 4th Gen? I don't think there really is one, appears as if development of new innovative MMORPGs has come to end.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What is the deciding factor that qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.
For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.
Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.
Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".
I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
Interesting turn of the thread. I always considered EQ and AC second gen (NWN, Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar and the like I personally consider first gen)
Makes no real difference though to be honest.
I mean what 'gen' a game comes out of or from is really only used by forum people about mmorpgs. I rarely see anyone write something about first gen shooters or platformers or adventure games or RTS games. I mean we all know what they are but no one ever really categorizes them as such. Like I said, interesting.
Fair point, and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to admit I don't know anything about these 3 games: Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar
But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.
EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product.
Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's
As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different.
In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.
The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.
Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.
While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
While I was always an avid video game player since they were first invented the earliest MMOs were never on my radar.
UO and EQ1 are the two MMORPGs which brought a spotlight to the genre hence I think of them as the early FIrst Gen games, even though I never tried either.
Yes, there were earlier games which enthusiasts knew of, but for an average Joe gamer like me they were largely unknown.
Still, for simplicity I go with the definition of 1st Gen being most games before WOW.
Second includes the host of WOW clones which followed and I agree ESO and forward are probably the definition of 3rd Gen titles.
As for the 4th Gen? I don't think there really is one, appears as if development of new innovative MMORPGs has come to end.
I agree with this for the most part, But "I think" 3rd Generation started with or around Warhammer 2008.
This is when they started messing with stuff where they brought in that public relations guy Paul Bennet that never really cared about the game but was just funny. They dropped a major city just weeks before launch that people were really counting on. Because of RvR lag they funneled "all" exp to Scenarios even the open world you got very little...... for the longest while it was a pure lobby game for Scenarios.
Now you can argue this was all do to bugs and early release. But in my view this is where Mystic fooled people with marketing over game play...... None the less this is on or about the dawn of 3rd Generation.
My 2 cents are that gen3 would actually be MMORPGs moving away from all things AAA and becoming niche again. Project Gorgon, Fractured, Albion etc. etc. Those are gen3 to me, a time where creativity could be brought back and the next juggernaut might arise, but away from the spotlight and the masses.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Mu opinion: Gen 1-UO, Runescape, Merdian ect, until WoW made everything about WoW Gen 2- WoW(I base it on when WoW came out) Aion,Dcuo, Lotro up until crowfunded mmorpgs start. Gen 3- Crowd fund/kickstarter mmos Gen 4-Whenever a AAA company decides to make a fully fledged mmorpg and not a half assed game and label it one(Like New world). which in the current state of the genre could be 10+ years when all these crowdfunded mmorpgs finally release or get canceled.
Comments
It's all about the largest profit margin.
In order to do that companies had to say "lets take stuff away" and build games how want them made. And that's everything on my list.
So what needs to be done, will never be done.
Using my example is saying...... We got rid of Bananas we don't care that people liked them...... Now tell everyone Apples are great.
In what way do you figure they were taken away?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Current 2nd Gen games are:
- changed over to 3rd Gen, easy,cash shops and all else.
- Old (2004)
- over played
World of Warcraft after the Burning Crusades led the way in the quest for profit margin and 3rd Gen.......... Whats it now, 8 hours from levels 1 to 130 ?
I often think of you as intelligent, but then you say stuff like this.
I have always took the view that WoW was 2nd Gen, and games like EQ, DAoC, and UO were 1st Gen.
Pretty much anything made past 2006 is in the 2nd Gen Arena.
Also.
I never played any of those games, can't say I have ever been inspired to either.
But, Umm.. if WoW is your Love.. you know, it's still active, you can just keep playing it.
A mmorpg that makes all playstyles fun and rewarding, from exploring(map charting skill with very limited map knowledge to begin with and players can buy maps from others) along with random unique dungeon spawns ect.
Swiping ideas from other games like Archeage's farming system where you can plant, steal or destroy anywhere.
Runescape's skill system where all skills interact with each other in some form. Truely dynamic questing that isn't a hub and instead treated as a rare event with meaningful and great rewards.
Fluff things like treasure hunting, ect ect ect.
Most games that don't try to copy WoW only suceed in adding only 1 or 2 elements while others(Gw2) is just the old shit.
MurderHerd
No, it seems to me if there really is a 4th Gen it's either all of these MMO-lite survival and multiplayer titles such as ARK, FO-76, Destiny or the perhaps the many BRs.
These all are what MMORPGs have evolved into, smaller, more specialized online multiplayer games.
Sure, there's a number of retro efforts but most are trying to being back first Gen gameplay.
"We need a newer version of a 2nd Gen game." As G-Easy would say, "that's some shit no one ever has said." (Except for WOW maybe)
Second Gen can RIP as far as me and many others here are concerned.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They are sick of PvE
For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.
Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.
Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".
I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
OK so using this we can safely say that WoW started Gen 2...Has gen 3 started yet then? and if so, what game started gen 3?
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I wouldn't say i am sick of PVE, but I am sick of questing as the main focus of the gameplay. I still love to explore and find new areas to play. I just don't like that so many games now build the entire game world around quests.
I wouldn't say i am sick of PVE, but I am sick of questing as the main focus of the gameplay. I still love to explore and find new areas to play. I just don't like that so many games now build the entire game world around quests.
But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.
EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product.
Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's
As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different.
In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.
The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.
Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.
While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
UO and EQ1 are the two MMORPGs which brought a spotlight to the genre hence I think of them as the early FIrst Gen games, even though I never tried either.
Yes, there were earlier games which enthusiasts knew of, but for an average Joe gamer like me they were largely unknown.
Still, for simplicity I go with the definition of 1st Gen being most games before WOW.
Second includes the host of WOW clones which followed and I agree ESO and forward are probably the definition of 3rd Gen titles.
As for the 4th Gen? I don't think there really is one, appears as if development of new innovative MMORPGs has come to end.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But "I think" 3rd Generation started with or around Warhammer 2008.
This is when they started messing with stuff where they brought in that public relations guy Paul Bennet that never really cared about the game but was just funny. They dropped a major city just weeks before launch that people were really counting on. Because of RvR lag they funneled "all" exp to Scenarios even the open world you got very little...... for the longest while it was a pure lobby game for Scenarios.
Now you can argue this was all do to bugs and early release. But in my view this is where Mystic fooled people with marketing over game play...... None the less this is on or about the dawn of 3rd Generation.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Gen 1-UO, Runescape, Merdian ect, until WoW made everything about WoW
Gen 2- WoW(I base it on when WoW came out) Aion,Dcuo, Lotro up until crowfunded mmorpgs start.
Gen 3- Crowd fund/kickstarter mmos
Gen 4-Whenever a AAA company decides to make a fully fledged mmorpg and not a half assed game and label it one(Like New world). which in the current state of the genre could be 10+ years when all these crowdfunded mmorpgs finally release or get canceled.
MurderHerd