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What needs to happen ?

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    What is the deciding factor that  qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
    Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.

    For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.

    Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.

    Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".

    I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
    Interesting turn of the thread.
    I always considered EQ and AC second gen
    (NWN, Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar and the like I personally consider first gen)

    Makes no real difference though to be honest.

    I mean what 'gen' a game comes out of or from is really only used by forum people about mmorpgs.
    I rarely see anyone write something about first gen shooters or platformers or adventure games or RTS games.
    I mean we all know what they are but no one ever really categorizes them as such.
    Like I said, interesting.   
    Fair point, and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to admit I don't know anything about these 3 games: Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar

    But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.

    EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product. 

    Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's

    As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different. 

    In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.

    The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.

    Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.

    While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
    No I agree EQ, AC, Lineage and UO were some of the first in what we all think of an mmorpg. Though Meridian was the first graphical mmorpg. Before EQ UO, Runescape and Lineage. What we do disagree on though is the uniqueness of EQ. As I have argued with Brad many times. (Sometimes even on this site but mainly in person)
    In my upbringing Lineage was the game that changed everything. EQ was not as big a game in my part of the world. Lineage started it all for all of me, my friends and future colleagues.
    I still think it does not matter what 'Gen' a game is from. This is only an mmorpg thing.  

    As a side note I disagree with NWN (AOL) not being an mmorpg. By the mid 90's 500 people could play together. That is an mmorpg by any measure in the mid 90's. In fact this is the first time I have ever heard someone say it was not one. Even receiving awards for it's contributions to the genre. Interesting take you have for sure. 

    Loved NWN on AOL (played the hell out of that ) and it had over 100k players , of course it was an MMO..

     Keep in mind the person saying NWN AOL was not an MMO, has stated that Destiny 2 is ..
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    I don't see any real claim to a 3rd generation; there's nothing innovative or drastically different in how the games are played.  I view ESO and BDO as part of the extended 2nd gen MMORPGs.  Good games, but not ground breaking.

    So, I'm waiting on a true 3rd generation of MMORPGs.  With the wave of nostalgia and constant desire to return to the 1st generation, I doubt its in our immediate future; developers just aren't looking for "new".



    TheocritusAlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    edited July 2020
    Mu opinion:  
    Gen 1-UO, Runescape, Merdian ect, until WoW made everything about WoW
    Gen 2- WoW(I base it on when WoW came out) Aion,Dcuo, Lotro up until crowfunded mmorpgs start.
    Gen 3- Crowd fund/kickstarter mmos
    Gen 4-Whenever a AAA company decides to make a fully fledged mmorpg and not a half assed game and label it one(Like New world). which in the current state of the genre could be 10+ years when all these crowdfunded mmorpgs finally release or get canceled.

    Gen 4, mobile mmo.  Oddly probably have higher sales than pc mmo.

    As much as everyone want to diss mobile games, it seemed to make more money.
    [Deleted User]
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    I haven't seen a good one yet, but if someone can incorporate VR into a MMO and make it work, then that may start the next gen.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    edited July 2020
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    What is the deciding factor that  qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?
    Fair question. As I see it, Each Gen often happens when one gen becomes Predominant, much like evolution, what works survives, what does not, dies off.

    For example, EQ when it came out was Gen 1, because there were no other MMO's that EQ was built off of, it was a very unique, first of its kind game, this would make it a Gen 1, however it set the stage for most MMO's that followed it because of its success, and everyone that followed it, wanted to be a part of its success.. these would be Gen 2.

    Now, there were other Online games, like UO for example, but, UO never saw half of what EQ had as far as players, this is why Gen 2 MMO's are not often made with the UO style of play, I mean, there are some, like Runescape, and Albion, and a few others, of course, but the Apex Predator of Gen 1, was EQ, and the volume of MMO's that followed it, is testament to that.

    Of the Gen2, we see WoW as the Apex Predator of it's era, which set the stage for all Gen 3 that would follow it, hence the "WoW Clone Wars".

    I mean it could be pretty deep of a discussion.. but that is just my basic feel on it.
    Interesting turn of the thread.
    I always considered EQ and AC second gen
    (NWN, Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar and the like I personally consider first gen)

    Makes no real difference though to be honest.

    I mean what 'gen' a game comes out of or from is really only used by forum people about mmorpgs.
    I rarely see anyone write something about first gen shooters or platformers or adventure games or RTS games.
    I mean we all know what they are but no one ever really categorizes them as such.
    Like I said, interesting.   
    Fair point, and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to admit I don't know anything about these 3 games: Meridian, Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar

    But I played Neverwinter Nights, and that was a multiplayer game kinda like how Warcraft (The Original Warcraft) was a Multiplayer Game, mainly a lan system, or through a provider like Battle.Net, (if they are even still around anymore), where you needed to set that up, and it was to say the least, a very limited product.

    EQ was.. in its creation, a very unique game system and product. 

    Much in the same way, a Battle Royal would not be called an MMO, nor would we call it a Gen 4, even if we can clearly see it's ties to MMO's of the era, it is very much it's own kind of game, a very unique style of experience. Thus is why we would not call them Gen4 games, or even Gen3, or Gen2, they are their own thing. Now, something like Apex Legends is like a Gen 2 of BR's

    As such, what Neverwinter Nights was, was not an MMO. Perhaps, one might claim it was a predecessor, because it was a Multiplayer Game, but equally so the Text based MUD on AOL, Like Gemstone IV which set the stage for what persistent worlds and had populations in the thousands, could be considered more apt successors to EQ. But, because EQ was graphic based, it was intrinsically different. 

    In many ways, it could argued that there were other Online Games before EQ, but what EQ put out was not generation of something before it, it was very much, it's own unique style of game system, truly unlike anything before it.

    The same could be said for UO, while we could argue that UO was 2nd Gen from Diablo, that, I believe would not sit well with anyone, as the games while similar in some aspects, really, are both their own unique style of gaming experiences.

    Unlike, the direct progression we can see where games are evolving from EQ to WoW to Runes of Magic.. where the game intention and experience remains the same.

    While we both could have our own reasons for feeling the way we feel, as far as MMO's go, EQ and UO, have IMHO, been Gen 1, as really, there was nothing quite like them.. till they existed.
    No I agree EQ, AC, Lineage and UO were some of the first in what we all think of an mmorpg. Though Meridian was the first graphical mmorpg. Before EQ UO, Runescape and Lineage. What we do disagree on though is the uniqueness of EQ. As I have argued with Brad many times. (Sometimes even on this site but mainly in person)
    In my upbringing Lineage was the game that changed everything. EQ was not as big a game in my part of the world. Lineage started it all for all of me, my friends and future colleagues.
    I still think it does not matter what 'Gen' a game is from. This is only an mmorpg thing.  

    As a side note I disagree with NWN (AOL) not being an mmorpg. By the mid 90's 500 people could play together. That is an mmorpg by any measure in the mid 90's. In fact this is the first time I have ever heard someone say it was not one. Even receiving awards for it's contributions to the genre. Interesting take you have for sure. 
    This is a fair stand, but there is less than a year between Lineage and EQ, as such the games legitimately had no influence upon each other, and thus both would be Gen 1.

    Which is what Gen's would be, if they were influenced by a predecessor game.

    As for your stand about EQ being Unique. I suppose you have your feelings on things, and I can fully respect that.

    While all these games could be considered Gen 1, due to their initiative. 

    EQ did do something that no one else of it's era or gen did, that was set the stage for a  PvE only MMO's going forward, and set up the ground breaking idea to divide the PvP and PvE players, which, well.. almost all successful MMO's have adopted.

    This was in fact a very unique move by Veriant, as all other MMO's of it's era, like UO, Lineage, Runescape, etc.. were all Open World PvP.

    I am not saying Lineage was not an Amazing MMO, or a Gen 1 influencer, but we all need to also realize that without EQ, we never would have had WoW either.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . . 

    Your here for years, yet yet your clueless.  Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly.  Even topics here are much fewer. 

    REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.

    Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.



    This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
    The #1 problem is that technology is outpacing development time by at least a factor of three.  Look at Star Citizen for example.  11 years in the making with literally hundreds of employees and the technology they are trying to build a game on has changed 3x over.  Every time that happens, you are basically starting over.

    The best thing any developer can do is under promise and over deliver.  If they give some grand list like you identified and they fail to deliver, the game is doomed from the start with the community saying it was just another over-hyped game.  Developers will always be in a no win situation.

    Let's look at Age of Conan for example.  This game should have been one of the best low fantasy MMORPGs ever made.  Unfortunately, Funcom ran out of time and development money and released a game entirely too early.  The crafting system wasn't even allowed to be tested by the community before launch with the developers saying, "Don't worry about crafting, it is in there."

    The bottom line is, it is easier to take a smaller MMORPG and let it get grand over time than it is to make a grand MMORPG from the start unless you have $1,000,000,000 and staff of 1,500 people and don't need your money back or profits for a decade.  
    I disagree. There are many factors at play that contributed to the downfall of that game.     
    Budget is that the main reason given in the end.    

    SWTOR had large budget as well, but for what exactly? Meaningless Voice overs? These games use bad game design that developers waste resources.


    Most MMO developers don't really understand why most MMOs fail or succeed.

    This is the main factor why the MMO genre is saturated with failure. 
    Sensai[Deleted User]delete5230

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . . 

    Your here for years, yet yet your clueless.  Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly.  Even topics here are much fewer. 

    REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.

    Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.



    This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
    The #1 problem is that technology is outpacing development time by at least a factor of three.  Look at Star Citizen for example.  11 years in the making with literally hundreds of employees and the technology they are trying to build a game on has changed 3x over.  Every time that happens, you are basically starting over.

    The best thing any developer can do is under promise and over deliver.  If they give some grand list like you identified and they fail to deliver, the game is doomed from the start with the community saying it was just another over-hyped game.  Developers will always be in a no win situation.

    Let's look at Age of Conan for example.  This game should have been one of the best low fantasy MMORPGs ever made.  Unfortunately, Funcom ran out of time and development money and released a game entirely too early.  The crafting system wasn't even allowed to be tested by the community before launch with the developers saying, "Don't worry about crafting, it is in there."

    The bottom line is, it is easier to take a smaller MMORPG and let it get grand over time than it is to make a grand MMORPG from the start unless you have $1,000,000,000 and staff of 1,500 people and don't need your money back or profits for a decade.  
    I disagree. There are many factors at play that contributed to the downfall of that game.     
    Budget is that the main reason given in the end.    

    SWTOR had large budget as well, but for what exactly? Meaningless Voice overs? These games use bad game design that developers waste resources.


    Most MMO developers don't really understand why most MMOs fail or succeed.

    This is the main factor why the MMO genre is saturated with failure. 

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I see some people still think that a login screen defines a MMO.You could have 500 million people login but if NOBODY played or interacted with another person,it's not a MMO.
    A login screen is just code and a validation point BEFORE you enter a game.What happens inside a game determines if the game was designed to be played as a MMO.
    If  i could use some far off analogy,it would be like putting a dead 440 wedge into a car and calling it a race car.If the car doesn't move it isn't a race car,it might LOOK like a race car but it won't be a race car.

    On the "what needs to happen" topic,we simply need serious developers instead of businessmen trying to make a buck.
    I truly wonder if many realize that MANY of the big name games spend way more on marketing than they do actually on the game.So more money is going into the business side than the game,how can that possibly equate to better games?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    What percentage of all those players wanted to play the end game? I certainly did not.

    When 90+% of a game is easymode, that negates the <10% that is hard.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    Raiding at least partly shows people dont' want to actually do hard content.

    Either that or people dont' want a game to become a second job.
  • ShaniaRebornShaniaReborn Member UncommonPosts: 54
    3rd Gen MMORPGs are these glorified lobby games like Albion, PS20, WoT, Warframe, Fortnite, etc.  I am not a fan of those types of games.   
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    AlBQuirky said:
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    What percentage of all those players wanted to play the end game? I certainly did not.

    When 90+% of a game is easymode, that negates the <10% that is hard.
    Those 10% hard content take so long it'll consume your entire life even if you play night and day.

    I dont' think it is so much that the content is hard.  It is more "no one have the time for that".  Dedicate your life to do the end game content.
    AlBQuirky
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    AlBQuirky said:
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    What percentage of all those players wanted to play the end game? I certainly did not.

    When 90+% of a game is easymode, that negates the <10% that is hard.

    It kind of shows people actually don't want to do hard content isn't it?

    That or people want to do hard content but they dont' want a game to become a second job.
    AlBQuirky
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,832
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    What is the deciding factor that  qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?



    I agree with this for the most part,
    But "I think" 3rd Generation started with or around Warhammer 2008.

    This is when they started messing with stuff where they brought in that public relations guy Paul Bennet that never really cared about the game but was just funny.  They dropped a major city just weeks before launch that people were really counting on.  Because of RvR lag they funneled "all" exp to Scenarios even the open world you got very little...... for the longest while it was a pure lobby game for Scenarios.

    Now you can argue this was all do to bugs and early release.  But in my view this is where Mystic fooled people with marketing over game play...... None the less this is on or about the dawn of 3rd Generation.    



    1st Generation - 1997 - 2003 - "The Age of Experimentation"

    The first generation of MMOs was defined by experimentation. A new genre and a new technology, nobody really had a clue what they were doing, most teams were small and curious. This era gave a wide variety of quirky games as devs experimented with what was possible.


    2nd Generation - 2004 - 2012 - "The (WoW) Clone Wars"

    This era starts with WoW and ends with SWTOR, and is characterised by WoW and it's horde of themepark "clones". Big money entered the genre, chasing after what WoW achieved. Loads of themeparks, mostly following the same design patterns just with minor tweaks. SWTOR was the final game in this era, when devs finally admitted that they couldn't replicate WoWs success.


    3rd Generation - 2012 - present - "The Asian Invasion / The Rise of Spam"

    There were two big factors in this current generation. The first is the rise of the Asian MMO. We seem to have had a lot of them, some new, some ports, but games from the East have far outpaced development in the west. The second is the rise of action combat, with nearly all devs giving up depth and instead focusing on spammy, flashy combat mechanics.


    4th Generation - ?????

    We haven't got to the fourth gen yet. A few years ago, I would have predicted that we would have started this generation already, and it would be "The Rise of the Indie", categorised by the large amount of MMOs released by indie / crowdfunded games. But, they keep getting cancelled, or delayed, or turn out not to be mmos. The future is still looking really rough for MMOs right now, with nearly all big devs leaving teh genre and no new ones entering. We need another big success to reinvigorate the market, but I've no idea where that big sucess might come from.

    AlBQuirky
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    AlBQuirky said:
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    What percentage of all those players wanted to play the end game? I certainly did not.

    When 90+% of a game is easymode, that negates the <10% that is hard.
    Those 10% hard content take so long it'll consume your entire life even if you play night and day.

    I dont' think it is so much that the content is hard.  It is more "no one have the time for that".  Dedicate your life to do the end game content.
    AlBQuirky
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    AlBQuirky said:
    remsleep said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Simple and easy….. Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.

    Isn't that list First Gen? 

    You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.

    What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.

    He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.


    I could safely say everyone's second gen best were:
    -World of Warcraft
    -Everquest 2
    -Lotro
    -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
    -I may have missed a few

    all fit

    Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.


    WoW - no 
    Lotro - no
    EQ2 - hell no
    Vanguard - I don't consider that 2nd gen (there we go about the whole gen discussion)


    Vanilla WoW - was good for its time - but to me felt like "training wheels" casual game (which it was) - but I have no desire to play something like that ever again

    This is why I've move away from MMOs to single player games and ARPGs - as the genre has become beyond stale and stagnant
    Wait Vanilla WoW was casual training wheels? How so? Less than 4% of the players beat endgame 

    What percentage of all those players wanted to play the end game? I certainly did not.

    When 90+% of a game is easymode, that negates the <10% that is hard.

    It kind of shows people actually don't want to do hard content isn't it?

    That or people want to do hard content but they dont' want a game to become a second job.
    AlBQuirky
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,832
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    What is the deciding factor that  qualifies as starting a new generation of MMOs?



    I agree with this for the most part,
    But "I think" 3rd Generation started with or around Warhammer 2008.

    This is when they started messing with stuff where they brought in that public relations guy Paul Bennet that never really cared about the game but was just funny.  They dropped a major city just weeks before launch that people were really counting on.  Because of RvR lag they funneled "all" exp to Scenarios even the open world you got very little...... for the longest while it was a pure lobby game for Scenarios.

    Now you can argue this was all do to bugs and early release.  But in my view this is where Mystic fooled people with marketing over game play...... None the less this is on or about the dawn of 3rd Generation.    



    1st Generation - 1997 - 2003 - "The Age of Experimentation"

    The first generation of MMOs was defined by experimentation. A new genre and a new technology, nobody really had a clue what they were doing, most teams were small and curious. This era gave a wide variety of quirky games as devs experimented with what was possible.


    2nd Generation - 2004 - 2012 - "The (WoW) Clone Wars"

    This era starts with WoW and ends with SWTOR, and is characterised by WoW and it's horde of themepark "clones". Big money entered the genre, chasing after what WoW achieved. Loads of themeparks, mostly following the same design patterns just with minor tweaks. SWTOR was the final game in this era, when devs finally admitted that they couldn't replicate WoWs success.


    3rd Generation - 2012 - present - "The Asian Invasion / The Rise of Spam"

    There were two big factors in this current generation. The first is the rise of the Asian MMO. We seem to have had a lot of them, some new, some ports, but games from the East have far outpaced development in the west. The second is the rise of action combat, with nearly all devs giving up depth and instead focusing on spammy, flashy combat mechanics.


    4th Generation - ?????

    We haven't got to the fourth gen yet. A few years ago, I would have predicted that we would have started this generation already, and it would be "The Rise of the Indie", categorised by the large amount of MMOs released by indie / crowdfunded games. But, they keep getting cancelled, or delayed, or turn out not to be mmos. The future is still looking really rough for MMOs right now, with nearly all big devs leaving teh genre and no new ones entering. We need another big success to reinvigorate the market, but I've no idea where that big sucess might come from.

    BabuinixUngoodAlBQuirky
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

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