Best faction-based PvP MMO?

Aeander

The most appealing thing in MMOs to me these days is Realm vs. Realm PvP. It's the one thing no other genre can do better, but it's also something that I feel that MMOs have basically forgotten how to do properly.

So, what would you consider to be the best current example of it?

ShaniaReborn

None.  They all turn into 10 on 1 gank fests that bore the hell out of me and are a waste of space on anyone's hard drive.

Aeander

I really enjoyed Aika Online's RvR PvP back in the day, before they grossly increased the PvE grinding barrier to entry. 

IsilithTehroth

I like faction based pvp as long as the world is big enough and doesnt have artificial front lines that make the game just a zerg vs zerg battle. Huge numbers rushing toward each other to fight sounds great, but the reality its just AoE's and pushes and usually fighting for meaningless territory(Gw2).

Only a few mmo's did it right, DFO, Planetside 1(2 is terrible insta respawn meaningless flip-flop land struggles).

There needs to be artificial in game mechanics to hinder zergs because if they can players will.

Scorchien

Still Warhammer imo

  DAOC 2nd

Theocritus

remsleep said:

DAoC the first month after launch (before they fixed all the crazy overpowered abilities) was the height of faction based PvP I've ever experienced period.

Unbalanced PvP is the most broken, yet the most fun while it lasts

Balance while fair is dreadfully boring

ALl I remember about DAoC RVR was getting one shot by stealthers all the time...That wasn't any fun...I liked the PVE aspect of the game, but the RVR was broken, at least what little I saw of it.

Aeander

Theocritus said:

remsleep said:

DAoC the first month after launch (before they fixed all the crazy overpowered abilities) was the height of faction based PvP I've ever experienced period.

Unbalanced PvP is the most broken, yet the most fun while it lasts

Balance while fair is dreadfully boring

ALl I remember about DAoC RVR was getting one shot by stealthers all the time...That wasn't any fun...I liked the PVE aspect of the game, but the RVR was broken, at least what little I saw of it.

Stealth classes really are the death of any legitimate competition.

Nepheth

Still playing War daily after all these years. I always loved War far more than DAoC. It's by far the best pvp focused mmorpg out there imo.

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/

Slapshot1188

Nepheth said:

Still playing War daily after all these years. I always loved War far more than DAoC. It's by far the best pvp focused mmorpg out there imo.

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/

I have been playing this was well.  I am amazed that they have such a high population and that they are actively adding content such as new scenarios etc...

That said, to me there is a huge gap because they focus on the endgame (where I am sure 95% of the population is).   From level 1-15 it works fairly as intended for RvR but then they have tied Rank 2-4 all together. They bolster you so if you are a level 16 you can theoretically compete but all the good equipment for your level is on the Tier 2 and eventually Tier 3 RvR quests and vendors.  I waited over a week for those to open while the endgame city battles were fought.   Then they opened at 2PM my time on a weekday and were locked again by the time I got back from work so everyone was back at the Tier 4 stuff...   ugh

 Nothing has done faction PvP better than DAOC.  I hated the other realms and as other have said that was BECAUSE not everything was balanced. We complained about Smite Clerics or stealthing mezzers (minstrels) that could climb walls.  We complained about broken left axe zerkers and 2 handed infiltrators 1 shotting people. 

Today’s games are all mirrors fighting.   No character just a lot of sameness.

The main ones on the way are Crowfall and Camelot Unchained.  Crowfall is the closest and can be played 24/7 by anyone with an account.   They will launch with a variety of rulesets including 3 and 12 way RvR.  They are letting all classes join any realm so I don’t see much “realm pride” there.  Most of the big PvP guilds are focused on the “Dregs” Rule set which is FFA.   

Camelot Unchained on paper is closest to what I want... 3 realms... a variety of classes for each realm... large scale sieges... but honestly the development has been a treadmill and I have no idea how far off release is.  They only have the servers up on occasion but have promised to have them up 3 days a week by the end of their 90 day plan.  

Iselin

I think you have to be a HC Warhammer universe fan to say that 2-sided RvR game is in any way better than the 3-sided DAoC. That missing 3rd side with its own agenda kills it, IMO.

The only thing about War I liked better than DAoC was just a class: the Warrior Priest or its mirror the DoK. Everything else just felt like a lesser version of DAoC to me.

ShaniaReborn

IsilithTehroth said:

I like faction based pvp as long as the world is big enough and doesnt have artificial front lines that make the game just a zerg vs zerg battle. Huge numbers rushing toward each other to fight sounds great, but the reality its just AoE's and pushes and usually fighting for meaningless territory(Gw2).

Only a few mmo's did it right, DFO, Planetside 1(2 is terrible insta respawn meaningless flip-flop land struggles).

There needs to be artificial in game mechanics to hinder zergs because if they can players will.

While everyone can have their own opinion, IMHO, DFO was/is the biggest full loot pvp flop of all time in the MMORPG space.

Mendel

The new anti-spam code bit me.  Apologies.

Mendel

The new anti-spam code bit me.  Apologies.

Mendel

Aeander said:

Theocritus said:

remsleep said:

DAoC the first month after launch (before they fixed all the crazy overpowered abilities) was the height of faction based PvP I've ever experienced period.

Unbalanced PvP is the most broken, yet the most fun while it lasts

Balance while fair is dreadfully boring

ALl I remember about DAoC RVR was getting one shot by stealthers all the time...That wasn't any fun...I liked the PVE aspect of the game, but the RVR was broken, at least what little I saw of it.

Stealth classes really are the death of any legitimate competition.

Especially with how the typical game implements stealth, i.e., does not draw on the other guy's monitor.  There's no chance to notice the enemy, unless there is an 'ability' which is frequently only a chance to spot and on some kind of timer.  By then, I'm dead.

It might be a lot different if 'stealth = hiding in a bush', not 'stealth = not displayed'.

Mendel

Aeander said:

Theocritus said:

remsleep said:

DAoC the first month after launch (before they fixed all the crazy overpowered abilities) was the height of faction based PvP I've ever experienced period.

Unbalanced PvP is the most broken, yet the most fun while it lasts

Balance while fair is dreadfully boring

ALl I remember about DAoC RVR was getting one shot by stealthers all the time...That wasn't any fun...I liked the PVE aspect of the game, but the RVR was broken, at least what little I saw of it.

Stealth classes really are the death of any legitimate competition.

Stealth has typically been overpowered in all PvP games.  It might be different if 'stealth = hidden in terrain' rather than the usual implementation of 'stealth = not displayed'.  There's usually an 'ability' that has to be earned through PvP that is on a timer.  By then, I'm usually dead.

Nanfoodle

I was playing ESO mostly for Cyrodiil and it's PvP was good, not as good as DAoC but it was filling that fix. Only it's a mess when it comes to performance. So much so I dropped ESO. Really was a hard decision as I loved the game. My last couple months playing ESO about 1/2 my guild quit playing because of performance.

So now I'm playing GW2. It's the only other game that has PvP even close to the good old RvR days. But nothing has filled that hole. There is no gaming even coming out that will fill that hole. But ESO was close if they can fix the game. GW2 is fully functional and has some good RvR combat. 

Viper482

The best currently out is Warhammer Return of Reckoning. Daoc was the best until ToA and then Frontiers. Long live old Emain.

ESO would be up there if it wasn't so broken. They have a really good system in Cyrodiil but it is broken beyond repair with lag and horrible balance. GW2 had a chance but completely botched WvW. 

Ungood

MMO pvP basically sucks, kinda always has, and I wager always will.

if you want to play a battlefield game, play a Battlefield game, and let the PvE trash sod off.

Aeander

Ungood said:

MMO pvP basically sucks, kinda always has, and I wager always will.

if you want to play a battlefield game, play a Battlefield game, and let the PvE trash sod off.

My preferences for shooters are quite specifically not what's popular these days.

Namely, I like third person, slow time to kill, sci fi shooters. Something like the old SW Battlefronts is perfect, but I can't think of much new on that front.

IsilithTehroth

ShaniaReborn said:

IsilithTehroth said:

I like faction based pvp as long as the world is big enough and doesnt have artificial front lines that make the game just a zerg vs zerg battle. Huge numbers rushing toward each other to fight sounds great, but the reality its just AoE's and pushes and usually fighting for meaningless territory(Gw2).

Only a few mmo's did it right, DFO, Planetside 1(2 is terrible insta respawn meaningless flip-flop land struggles).

There needs to be artificial in game mechanics to hinder zergs because if they can players will.

While everyone can have their own opinion, IMHO, DFO was/is the biggest full loot pvp flop of all time in the MMORPG space.

Really what other full loot games have you played? Because id give that title to Mortal online. DFO had a huge player base at launch but dwindled down due to the hardcore nature of the game and lack of development later on from AV. Really the only other full loot mmorpgs are UO and maybe runescape.

The combat was the most sound combat out of any mmorpgs and many fps I've ever played, a lot of the game was lacking in the non pvp department though. I am hoping Profane captures the magic of DFO and produces something as intricate as UO and SWG

Slapshot1188

IsilithTehroth said:

ShaniaReborn said:

AIsilithTehroth said:

I like faction based pvp as long as the world is big enough and doesnt have artificial front lines that make the game just a zerg vs zerg battle. Huge numbers rushing toward each other to fight sounds great, but the reality its just AoE's and pushes and usually fighting for meaningless territory(Gw2).

Only a few mmo's did it right, DFO, Planetside 1(2 is terrible insta respawn meaningless flip-flop land struggles).

There needs to be artificial in game mechanics to hinder zergs because if they can players will.

While everyone can have their own opinion, IMHO, DFO was/is the biggest full loot pvp flop of all time in the MMORPG space.

Really what other full loot games have you played? Because id give that title to Mortal online. DFO had a huge player base at launch but dwindled down due to the hardcore nature of the game and lack of development later on from AV. Really the only other full loot mmorpgs are UO and maybe runescape.

The combat was the most sound combat out of any mmorpgs and many fps I've ever played, a lot of the game was lacking in the non pvp department though. I am hoping Profane captures the magic of DFO and produces something as intricate as UO and SWG

DFO lost players for a few reasons:

1. Bugs such as desynching from server and massive exploits that were patched eventually but the exploiters kept their skill gains.  Some exploits allowed 1 shot kills (battle spike exploit)

2. People were not prepared to lose the population centers that they worked for weeks to build up.  Mass quitting happened when someone logged in to find that their city was taken overnight or while at work.

Combat was OK but aimbots were prevalent which caused a ton of frustration.

Morgenes83

While I love cyrodiil as a map I d

YashaX

ESO is the best rvr game out there atm. For people with lag issues try playing in the non-CP campaign, its much better performance wise.

Excluding GW2, the other games mentioned here involve too much pve or have too much of a level/gear gap system for my liking. 

ShaniaReborn

IsilithTehroth said:

ShaniaReborn said:

IsilithTehroth said:

I like faction based pvp as long as the world is big enough and doesnt have artificial front lines that make the game just a zerg vs zerg battle. Huge numbers rushing toward each other to fight sounds great, but the reality its just AoE's and pushes and usually fighting for meaningless territory(Gw2).

Only a few mmo's did it right, DFO, Planetside 1(2 is terrible insta respawn meaningless flip-flop land struggles).

There needs to be artificial in game mechanics to hinder zergs because if they can players will.

While everyone can have their own opinion, IMHO, DFO was/is the biggest full loot pvp flop of all time in the MMORPG space.

Really what other full loot games have you played? Because id give that title to Mortal online. DFO had a huge player base at launch but dwindled down due to the hardcore nature of the game and lack of development later on from AV. Really the only other full loot mmorpgs are UO and maybe runescape.

The combat was the most sound combat out of any mmorpgs and many fps I've ever played, a lot of the game was lacking in the non pvp department though. I am hoping Profane captures the magic of DFO and produces something as intricate as UO and SWG

Look, I started out with Shadowbane and I loved SWG.  DFO was pure vaporware and IMHO, was total crap that should have never been released.  In less than 30 days nearly everyone on a server was in the same guild because everyone wanted 1`0 vs 1 pvp.  It was the ultimate in boring.  Nearly everyone that joined the game after the first month would quit because the game was nothing more than a gank fest.  If you want a good pvp game that is 100x better than what DFO was, try Wurm Online.

ringdany

My favourite is Champions of Regnum. Simple gfx, well balance RvR, busy war, f2p, proven fun pvp.

mgilbrtsn

I don't know why it's so hard to answer a person's question.  Between the they suck and the back in the day answers, you get a few nuggets of info.

I think ESO.