What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
Money to develop is almost never unlimited (unless you are Chris Roberts), burn rates are real, and the effort cannot go on endlessly, it will launch when the money runs out.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
Money to develop is almost never unlimited (unless you are Chris Roberts), burn rates are real, and the effort cannot go on endlessly, it will launch when the money runs out.
Yeah but if you think this game is anywhere near the scope of Star Citizen then I don't think you know enough about development. Star Citizen is above and beyond what is reasonable. Steven has said that if the game takes 3 or 4 years then that is what it will take.
Everyone keeps saying how ambitious AoC is but they are reinventing anything. Even the node system is a much more scaled back version of what EQ next was trying to do.
They seem to be right on track with everything we have seen. Even in the last Q&A he said they haven't added any features to the game and they are avoiding any feature creep, unlike Star Citizen.
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
Money to develop is almost never unlimited (unless you are Chris Roberts), burn rates are real, and the effort cannot go on endlessly, it will launch when the money runs out.
Yeah but if you think this game is anywhere near the scope of Star Citizen then I don't think you know enough about development. Star Citizen is above and beyond what is reasonable. Steven has said that if the game takes 3 or 4 years then that is what it will take.
Everyone keeps saying how ambitious AoC is but they are reinventing anything. Even the node system is a much more scaled back version of what EQ next was trying to do.
They seem to be right on track with everything we have seen. Even in the last Q&A he said they haven't added any features to the game and they are avoiding any feature creep, unlike Star Citizen.
You do realize that having 7 stages for each node means that they need to design 7 versions of the whole world with each node of level 0-6 needing to fit seamlessly with its neighbor that will be at a different level, don't you?
That all by itself, is much more world building than even current AAA MMOs.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
You are mistaken on several fronts.
First, you have to have a finished and released game before any talk of a game "failing" can even begin.
Second, who is the fool, the person who is right 9/10 times or the one who is right 1/10 times?
Third, history tells me that not being "beholden" to investors is actually a negative for mmo development.
Fourth, passion and money is not something "different" when it comes to these kickstarter mmos. Indeed, that is common ground for all the delayed and cancelled projects out there.
You do realize that having 7 stages for each node means that they need to design 7 versions of the whole world with each node of level 0-6 needing to fit seamlessly with its neighbor that will be at a different level, don't you?
That all by itself, is much more world building than even current AAA MMOs.
I would assume/hope that they have some templates and will do some reuse of assets for that. That would be less fancy but more pragmatic. I am interested to see how they will do this in any case.
Well there are 4 node types and 103 nodes. I'm sure they will have some asset reuse as all large world games do but if they just do 25 identical copies of each type of node with identical cities and identical dungeons and quests in each they'll get ridiculed hard just like ESO was when they did that with their delves at launch.
Any way you slice it, they still have a much bigger world building job ahead of them than your typical MMO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
Money to develop is almost never unlimited (unless you are Chris Roberts), burn rates are real, and the effort cannot go on endlessly, it will launch when the money runs out.
Yeah but if you think this game is anywhere near the scope of Star Citizen then I don't think you know enough about development. Star Citizen is above and beyond what is reasonable. Steven has said that if the game takes 3 or 4 years then that is what it will take.
Everyone keeps saying how ambitious AoC is but they are reinventing anything. Even the node system is a much more scaled back version of what EQ next was trying to do.
They seem to be right on track with everything we have seen. Even in the last Q&A he said they haven't added any features to the game and they are avoiding any feature creep, unlike Star Citizen.
You do realize that having 7 stages for each node means that they need to design 7 versions of the whole world with each node of level 0-6 needing to fit seamlessly with its neighbor that will be at a different level, don't you?
That all by itself, is much more world building than even current AAA MMOs.
From what I have seen it just flattens our the terrain and randomizes a city on top of it. I believe he even talked about it in one of the streams. There are about a dozen different ways to do it pretty easily.
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
You are mistaken on several fronts.
First, you have to have a finished and released game before any talk of a game "failing" can even begin.
Second, who is the fool, the person who is right 9/10 times or the one who is right 1/10 times?
Third, history tells me that not being "beholden" to investors is actually a negative for mmo development.
Fourth, passion and money is not something "different" when it comes to these kickstarter mmos. Indeed, that is common ground for all the delayed and cancelled projects out there.
1. Exactly? So why is everyone being so cynical about a game that isn't even done yet?
2. If your goal is to just keep being a downer and throwing negativity at every MMO so you can be "right" most of the time, then you are a moron. Its not about right and wrong. It is pointless to assume the worst on every MMO in development. What is the point in even being on this website if that is how you are?
3. Explain to me how being forced to produce a product that isn't ready is a good thing?
4. I disagree. If they had the money and passion they wouldn't have fizzled out and given up. AoC has been growing for 3 straight years and shown a ton of progress. They have grown to a full AAA sized team and are still hiring.
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
You are mistaken on several fronts.
First, you have to have a finished and released game before any talk of a game "failing" can even begin.
Second, who is the fool, the person who is right 9/10 times or the one who is right 1/10 times?
Third, history tells me that not being "beholden" to investors is actually a negative for mmo development.
Fourth, passion and money is not something "different" when it comes to these kickstarter mmos. Indeed, that is common ground for all the delayed and cancelled projects out there.
1. Exactly? So why is everyone being so cynical about a game that isn't even done yet?
2. If your goal is to just keep being a downer and throwing negativity at every MMO so you can be "right" most of the time, then you are a moron. Its not about right and wrong. It is pointless to assume the worst on every MMO in development. What is the point in even being on this website if that is how you are?
3. Explain to me how being forced to produce a product that isn't ready is a good thing?
4. I disagree. If they had the money and passion they wouldn't have fizzled out and given up. AoC has been growing for 3 straight years and shown a ton of progress. They have grown to a full AAA sized team and are still hiring.
I haven't seen anyone be "cynical" about a game, everyone seems fairly upbeat about the ideas but some are understandably uncertain about whether it will actually ship.
Kylo isn't negative about mmos, again he and others are just a bit over the kickstarter mmo scams and the forum shills that call you a moron for doubting the plausibility of the promises made.
Every good mmo I have played was made while being held accountable at least to investors. What good AAA mmo has been made with crowdfunding? Zero.
Oh, many are still soldiering on years past deadlines, I assume the same will happen with this one.
What's surprising is so many gamers continue to fall for it, hope springs eternal I guess, they just want to believe.
Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
Money to develop is almost never unlimited (unless you are Chris Roberts), burn rates are real, and the effort cannot go on endlessly, it will launch when the money runs out.
Yeah but if you think this game is anywhere near the scope of Star Citizen then I don't think you know enough about development. Star Citizen is above and beyond what is reasonable. Steven has said that if the game takes 3 or 4 years then that is what it will take.
Everyone keeps saying how ambitious AoC is but they are reinventing anything. Even the node system is a much more scaled back version of what EQ next was trying to do.
They seem to be right on track with everything we have seen. Even in the last Q&A he said they haven't added any features to the game and they are avoiding any feature creep, unlike Star Citizen.
You do realize that having 7 stages for each node means that they need to design 7 versions of the whole world with each node of level 0-6 needing to fit seamlessly with its neighbor that will be at a different level, don't you?
That all by itself, is much more world building than even current AAA MMOs.
As I wrote in the other thread, that is one way to look at it, the ambitious one.
The other is just as discouraging and that is that they really only have to do 4 big really advanced nodes, 1 of each types in stage 6 and they just peel of layers for each lower stage, and then reuse them all around out in the world. With a little cosmetic unique zone quest on top to cover it and call it done. That is the grim reality that can happen if game is rushed, money runs out, etc. Because the game will just not do it for people if content is reused that way.
The point is that the vision for a node system set the bar high, but also gives a really low mark to get by and around with, while still be able to claim that it kind of delivered what promised.
The cautious optimist in me doesn't see this game hit the high bar with out delaying the project, even with additional funding involved. It's very ambitious, it require the company to grow without delaying the time schedule, it require all the systems to be able to deliver while working together. Balancing all that is a nightmare at best. And it required tons of content. Claiming to have done 20% so far does not make me think the rest can be done in two years by scaling up the studio.
If a well know studio came and promised all these feature in game made within this games time schedule and without a 100 mill budget I would laugh at them. Let's be real. But on the other hand I don't see a reason to even be interested in this game if they don't go for the high bar. Unfortunately it means that what I hope is that they can get there with just a few years delay.
If I remember right, there was some of those "Wow! this game is amazing" videos about AoC when it wasn't even in the development stage yet. I'll get excited when the game is actually here, right in front of our eyes before I get all hyped over nothing.
lol I had to make an edit.
I watched some of the video and that was the funniest shit I have ever seen.
They have a lot of high rendered cut scenes to make it look like that is what you are getting. To be fair, maybe that is what you are getting in the town. But once you leave the town, the map and node system turns into one of those 2d maps you find in mobile games. If you look at lazy peon's video he is showing you two different games.
The really rendered 3d part is a cut scenes. The 3d characters running around is something like out of Shroud of the avatar where you can run around in a 3d town but once you leave the area it becomes 2d again. Cause why are they showing you two different games?
The whole part of having a champion fight for you instead of your avatar, that is what vikings war of clans has. So you may not be getting the wonderful rendered game you think you are getting. ROFL
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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Is there any point in being on this site if you are this cynical? You can keep crying about how a game fails and be right 90% of the time, sure. Then there will be one time where you are wrong and you will look like a fool.
Steven has the money, passion, and is not beholden to any investors or stock holders to force him to release the game before he feels it is done. That is what is different about this one. I choose to believe they will pull it off.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone keeps saying how ambitious AoC is but they are reinventing anything. Even the node system is a much more scaled back version of what EQ next was trying to do.
They seem to be right on track with everything we have seen. Even in the last Q&A he said they haven't added any features to the game and they are avoiding any feature creep, unlike Star Citizen.
That all by itself, is much more world building than even current AAA MMOs.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You are mistaken on several fronts.
First, you have to have a finished and released game before any talk of a game "failing" can even begin.
Second, who is the fool, the person who is right 9/10 times or the one who is right 1/10 times?
Third, history tells me that not being "beholden" to investors is actually a negative for mmo development.
Fourth, passion and money is not something "different" when it comes to these kickstarter mmos. Indeed, that is common ground for all the delayed and cancelled projects out there.
Any way you slice it, they still have a much bigger world building job ahead of them than your typical MMO.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
2. If your goal is to just keep being a downer and throwing negativity at every MMO so you can be "right" most of the time, then you are a moron. Its not about right and wrong. It is pointless to assume the worst on every MMO in development. What is the point in even being on this website if that is how you are?
3. Explain to me how being forced to produce a product that isn't ready is a good thing?
4. I disagree. If they had the money and passion they wouldn't have fizzled out and given up. AoC has been growing for 3 straight years and shown a ton of progress. They have grown to a full AAA sized team and are still hiring.
I haven't seen anyone be "cynical" about a game, everyone seems fairly upbeat about the ideas but some are understandably uncertain about whether it will actually ship.
Kylo isn't negative about mmos, again he and others are just a bit over the kickstarter mmo scams and the forum shills that call you a moron for doubting the plausibility of the promises made.
Every good mmo I have played was made while being held accountable at least to investors. What good AAA mmo has been made with crowdfunding? Zero.
Oh, many are still soldiering on years past deadlines, I assume the same will happen with this one.
The other is just as discouraging and that is that they really only have to do 4 big really advanced nodes, 1 of each types in stage 6 and they just peel of layers for each lower stage, and then reuse them all around out in the world. With a little cosmetic unique zone quest on top to cover it and call it done. That is the grim reality that can happen if game is rushed, money runs out, etc. Because the game will just not do it for people if content is reused that way.
The point is that the vision for a node system set the bar high, but also gives a really low mark to get by and around with, while still be able to claim that it kind of delivered what promised.
The cautious optimist in me doesn't see this game hit the high bar with out delaying the project, even with additional funding involved. It's very ambitious, it require the company to grow without delaying the time schedule, it require all the systems to be able to deliver while working together. Balancing all that is a nightmare at best. And it required tons of content. Claiming to have done 20% so far does not make me think the rest can be done in two years by scaling up the studio.
If a well know studio came and promised all these feature in game made within this games time schedule and without a 100 mill budget I would laugh at them. Let's be real. But on the other hand I don't see a reason to even be interested in this game if they don't go for the high bar. Unfortunately it means that what I hope is that they can get there with just a few years delay.