Ashes of Creation Team Wants Your Thoughts on Multiboxing

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Ashes of Creation Team Wants Your Thoughts on Multiboxing

Following the AMA over the weekend, the Ashes of Creation team have posted a Dev Discussion all about multiboxing.

Read the full story here

Wellspring

“I agree with Intrepid's decision to allow multiboxing from separate computers without automated/macro or keystroke mimicking software.”

That sounds like a good policy to me as well. It allows family members to play together using the same internet connection and prevents players from excessive multi-boxing.

EQ1 had a progression server with a similar ruleset, which I very much enjoyed.

Nanfoodle

I only play MMOs with my wife. So we always have 2 PC going. If this was not a option, I would not play Ashes. As to one player running two accounts. As long as there is no scripts and the person is playing them. I have np with that. I used to run 3 account with EQ1 but with action combat that's almost impossible, so without scripts this wont effect combat. At best a 2nd account to craft and mule items. Do we really care at that point? Also they would need to sub so thats just more money for new content. Bring it on.

Wrekkt

Exactly how Steve started off in Lineage 2, then it evolved to running L2Walker for ESP, then it evolved to full on ZRanger botting 24/7.

Shutara

Unless there's proven botting behaviour, I see no logical reason for it to be restricted at all. Even if they disable multiboxing, people will try jumping over the wall anyway and work on botting software. Devs should definitely equip themselves in a solid anti-cheat aswell.

IsilithTehroth

I think multiboxxing should be banned unless you can prove evidence that its multiple people(Sure someone could for example use their wife's identity to get over it, but it will hinder most). Unfair advantages in gaming should stop whether its hacking, botting, multiaccount to circumvent mechanics(or whatever), exploiting and gold selling. It all leads to terrible mechanic desicions, harmed community, and hurts the game.

Vrika

IsilithTehroth said:

I think multiboxxing should be banned unless you can prove evidence that its multiple people(Sure someone could for example use their wife's identity to get over it, but it will hinder most). Unfair advantages in gaming should stop whether its hacking, botting, multiaccount to circumvent mechanics(or whatever), exploiting and gold selling. It all leads to terrible mechanic desicions, harmed community, and hurts the game.

How would one prove that it's multiple people?

I think drawing the line into one instance of game per one computer is good limit because it's easy to determine. Beyond that it gets too complicated.

Perhaps in a decade or two online identifications are common enough that games can start using those, but as things currently stand in the west I think it would only work in Estonia and some of the Nordic countries.

Haki88

Whats wrong with multiboxing? 1 guy playing on 2 accounts... he will pay both accounts, he will play both accounts, no cheating etc so whats wrong?

I know people who are using bots not to get rich, but to stay in pace with other players because guess what... these people work... Who can beat some kid who is playing 12 hours a day, have max lvl and +12 gear while you are 20 lvls behind him with crappy +4... so multiboxing is great idea, at least stops some % of people to use bots and when they come from work play with 2 accounts...

Amathe

People who multibox are more nimble and are generally better game players than I, so naturally I am against it.

Sovrath

Haki88 said:

Whats wrong with multiboxing? 1 guy playing on 2 accounts... he will pay both accounts, he will play both accounts, no cheating etc so whats wrong?

I know people who are using bots not to get rich, but to stay in pace with other players because guess what... these people work... Who can beat some kid who is playing 12 hours a day, have max lvl and +12 gear while you are 20 lvls behind him with crappy +4... so multiboxing is great idea, at least stops some % of people to use bots and when they come from work play with 2 accounts...

I would say the issue would be if they are using extra software to facilitate those extra characters.

Haki88

Sovrath said:

Haki88 said:

Whats wrong with multiboxing? 1 guy playing on 2 accounts... he will pay both accounts, he will play both accounts, no cheating etc so whats wrong?



I know people who are using bots not to get rich, but to stay in pace with other players because guess what... these people work... Who can beat some kid who is playing 12 hours a day, have max lvl and +12 gear while you are 20 lvls behind him with crappy +4... so multiboxing is great idea, at least stops some % of people to use bots and when they come from work play with 2 accounts...

I would say the issue would be if they are using extra software to facilitate those extra characters.

Thats why i said no cheating. But this also depends on devs, just remember bdo auction house, it was soooo hard for them to make script to detect which players are buying same gear over and over again so we needed to wait for long time for them to release "new" auction house.

Ofc this needs to be limited to maybe 3 accounts, so people can do something like:

1. Main
2. Lvl crafting
3. Everything else

bgzgamer

I think my big question would be.. how are they going to determine if there are multiple games running on the computer? That is very easily bypassed these days....

I am impressed with AoC ideas in theory... but you guys gotta remember that all of this is just some guy who made millions on pyramid schemes in the 90's who decided to suddenly fund a game. He knows how to sell.. but we haven't really seen shit for implementation.

Mendel

The bigger issue with multi-boxing is that it can make almost every character viable as a solo player.  It also removes 1 (or more) potential slots from the group, making it more difficult to find a group.  When coupled with pets or mercenaries (I'm looking at you, EQ1), the game really becomes a solo-friendly game.  That's entirely against the design of the game.

Iselin

Sovrath said:

Haki88 said:

Whats wrong with multiboxing? 1 guy playing on 2 accounts... he will pay both accounts, he will play both accounts, no cheating etc so whats wrong?

I know people who are using bots not to get rich, but to stay in pace with other players because guess what... these people work... Who can beat some kid who is playing 12 hours a day, have max lvl and +12 gear while you are 20 lvls behind him with crappy +4... so multiboxing is great idea, at least stops some % of people to use bots and when they come from work play with 2 accounts...

I would say the issue would be if they are using extra software to facilitate those extra characters.

Hey lets as @Kyleran how he did it in Eve for years (and does it now in FO76 I seem to recall)

From what I understand most players who run multiple accounts for simultaneous use by one person do seem to use "echoing" software and anyone who has ever played a PvP game knows how effective coordinated fire on one target is even when it's just several players doing it without multiboxing over voice coms.

I agree there's a difference between that and several people in one household playing together which can look like multiboxing if all you're looking at is IP. That's why the detection system for the type of software aided multiboxing that is the problem needs to be more sophisticated.

Xatsh

I say no, in most games it either screws with pvp or allows people to do things designed for groups solo. Both are bad for the game.

If they do allow it they need to make sure someone playing 1 character at a time has no disadvantage compared someone playing multiple. I have no issue with people having multiple accounts... i have an issue with them playing them at the same time.

xonedl

There is no feasible way to stop multiboxing, that's fact. Trying to stop it with method like IP restriction will only hurts legit players, eg: family, cyber cafe.

At best you can do is limiting one game instance per PC. But obviously we got method to get around it as well... (virtualization).

If someone want to pay 10x more than you so he can play 10x more accounts at the same time for variety of reasons, eg: able to master all crafting class himself cuz he got no friends (ಥ_ಥ); Well... props to him to play 10x harder anyone else to achieve that... You jealous?

Again, as someone else already mentioned above; multiboxing =/= botting.

Iselin

xonedl said:

Again, as someone else already mentioned above; multiboxing =/= botting.

It can be almost indistinguishable from botting if you echo keystrokes to the other clients.

And no, no one would do it for crafting lol. They'd do it for the PvP advantage of always running in a "group" and focus firing using the aforementioned keystroke echoing.

Kyleran

Iselin said:

Sovrath said:

Haki88 said:

Whats wrong with multiboxing? 1 guy playing on 2 accounts... he will pay both accounts, he will play both accounts, no cheating etc so whats wrong?

I know people who are using bots not to get rich, but to stay in pace with other players because guess what... these people work... Who can beat some kid who is playing 12 hours a day, have max lvl and +12 gear while you are 20 lvls behind him with crappy +4... so multiboxing is great idea, at least stops some % of people to use bots and when they come from work play with 2 accounts...

I would say the issue would be if they are using extra software to facilitate those extra characters.

Hey lets as @Kyleran how he did it in Eve for years (and does it now in FO76 I seem to recall)

From what I understand most players who run multiple accounts for simultaneous use by one person do seem to use "echoing" software and anyone who has ever played a PvP game knows how effective coordinated fire on one target is even when it's just several players doing it without multiboxing over voice coms.

I agree there's a difference between that and several people in one household playing together which can look like multiboxing if all you're looking at is IP. That's why the detection system for the type of software aided multiboxing that is the problem needs to be more sophisticated.

I did it totally by hand, switching between 6 clients on a single laptop, but only when mining asteroids or transporting goods, never in PVP.

I did occasionally use two accounts in PVP but only one was actually in combat, the other might be have been a scout or cyno alt, and again, always run manually.

I do have two accounts in FO 76 but I only use the 2nd as a mule to hold surplus gear and caps.

As mentioned by several others multi boxing is not the same as multi bottting and game devs are capable of telling the difference with the right tools.

acidblood

remsleep said:

My thoughts - 

Kind of pointless of devs to ask as they know all to well that there is nothing they can do to stop it.

To some extent yes, but at least if it is againt the ToS then they can ban people if it gets out of hand.

Wedlen

multiboxing should not be allowed in any game.

Ageni

remsleep said:

Rhoklaw said:

remsleep said:

My thoughts - 

Kind of pointless of devs to ask as they know all to well that there is nothing they can do to stop it.

Also - multiboxing just means more earnings for them - so every game company loves multiboxers - but they don't want to admit this to the public as that would be bad PR.

I think whenever devs ask these multiboxing questions - it's strictly out of wanting to appear as they listen to community - so it's done for appearances only - away from public eye they are like - YES PLEASE but as many copies/accounts of our game as you can!

How exactly does multiboxing hurt the game or the community? As in, why would not being against it be bad PR? Multiboxing has been around since UO and people rarely complain about. Think you're confusing it with botting, which is definitely a problem and actually does hurt the game and community.

Multiboxing totally breaks PvP

Go watch 15man and 25man WoW boxers on youtube... imagine 25 perfectly coordinated attacks on each target ... insta death 

Its majorly game breaking

Also there are 25box raid solos as well


Multiboxing hurts the game and community because it puts a normal one account player at a massive disadvantage 

Exactly that. Imagine been in arena 5v5, where 1 player coordinate rest of chars and you have no chance against it. So broke and unmotivated.

Kyleran

Ageni said:

remsleep said:

Rhoklaw said:

remsleep said:

My thoughts - 

Kind of pointless of devs to ask as they know all to well that there is nothing they can do to stop it.

Also - multiboxing just means more earnings for them - so every game company loves multiboxers - but they don't want to admit this to the public as that would be bad PR.

I think whenever devs ask these multiboxing questions - it's strictly out of wanting to appear as they listen to community - so it's done for appearances only - away from public eye they are like - YES PLEASE but as many copies/accounts of our game as you can!

How exactly does multiboxing hurt the game or the community? As in, why would not being against it be bad PR? Multiboxing has been around since UO and people rarely complain about. Think you're confusing it with botting, which is definitely a problem and actually does hurt the game and community.

Multiboxing totally breaks PvP

Go watch 15man and 25man WoW boxers on youtube... imagine 25 perfectly coordinated attacks on each target ... insta death 

Its majorly game breaking

Also there are 25box raid solos as well


Multiboxing hurts the game and community because it puts a normal one account player at a massive disadvantage 

Exactly that. Imagine been in arena 5v5, where 1 player coordinate rest of chars and you have no chance against it. So broke and unmotivated.

I don't recall seeing or ever reading about arena matches ever being dominated by single player multiboxers.

Seems the problem lies mostly in people's imagination.

Kyleran

Iselin said:

xonedl said:

Again, as someone else already mentioned above; multiboxing =/= botting.

It can be almost indistinguishable from botting if you echo keystrokes to the other clients.

And no, no one would do it for crafting lol. They'd do it for the PvP advantage of always running in a "group" and focus firing using the aforementioned keystroke echoing.

Keystroke echoing is detectable and even CCP eventually put in rules some years ago against using such.

anemo

Allowing multiboxing also legitimatizes a lot of meta play.  Mechanics like spying alts, “family” warp in alts (the main form of planned fast travel),  crafting feed stock alts (limited crafting slots on a character), circumventing around faction mechanics (different god clerics having different abilities), and mechanics like having a rogue stealthed by world boss spawn locations.

They're setting themselves up for hard core guilds requiring their members to have leveled alts, and having those alts leveled/grouped/factioned in certain meta ways.

Iselin

Kyleran said:

Iselin said:

xonedl said:

Again, as someone else already mentioned above; multiboxing =/= botting.

It can be almost indistinguishable from botting if you echo keystrokes to the other clients.

And no, no one would do it for crafting lol. They'd do it for the PvP advantage of always running in a "group" and focus firing using the aforementioned keystroke echoing.

Keystroke echoing is detectable and even CCP eventually put in rules some years ago against using such.

I only used that example because it has been around forever and is easy for anyone to understand.

Things have progressed well beyond that with programs like Isboxer that do it all with UIs that accomplish the same thing:
https://isboxer.com/#:~:text=ISBoxer%20is%20premium%20multiboxing%20software,together%20in%20your%20favorite%20MMO.

The only rational solution for any game with PvP  is this:

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23701/kw/Multibox

PvE I could care less. Fill your boots.

hyllyh

personal experience in EVE online:
-gg for the fight, just be happy to loot with yours alts
- it was friends mate, not multibox
- ahahah i cant trust you!

this was one of numbers reasons i quit EVE, too many multiboxers (15 man fleet , just press F1 and done)
i cant understand why running 15 account at a time and game allowed this thing goes.

ok, dev sell more account but if it's to have an empty game after few weeks / months, it's a big NO