In something like Assassins Creed, there is story, there are levels, there is gear progression etc. But, at no point do you ever get to make any decisions about the role you are playing. That is what makes those games action / adventure and not an RPG.
I'll point out that in Assassin's Creed Odyssey there are more "role playing" decisions. Whether or not to allow a family to be killed because they might have the plague, whether or not to support one senate member or another.
I think they are movit it more toward "role playing game."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"Unlike most of the previous games, Odyssey is a full role-playing game. It is the end point of a transition that Ubisoft started with Assassin’s Creed: Origins."
“’History is our playground’ is sort of the motto of Assassin’s Creed,” Phillips told GamesBeat. “That was a starting point for us … [but we] wanted history to be your playground, not just ours. We wanted you to interact and change things. It’s the type of game, honestly, that I wanted to make. The sort of open-world game with choices, with RPG elements of customizing your gear on multiple parts of your body, customizing your abilities and mapping them where you want to on the controls. It’s really about making it the player’s game.”
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
In something like Assassins Creed, there is story, there are levels, there is gear progression etc. But, at no point do you ever get to make any decisions about the role you are playing. That is what makes those games action / adventure and not an RPG.
I'll point out that in Assassin's Creed Odyssey there are more "role playing" decisions. Whether or not to allow a family to be killed because they might have the plague, whether or not to support one senate member or another.
I think they are movit it more toward "role playing game."
Admittedly, I've not played Odyssey, last one I played was Origins which didn't seem to have any roleplaying in it as far as I could see. Odyssey looked cool, but I read too many bad reviews about the gameplay (combat specifically) so decided to skip it.
Pretty cool if they are moving the series towards being roleplaying games, I've always thought it could really benefit from such things. I hope they add roleplaying into the progression mechanics, or hell, let us choose whether to be assassin, templar or neutral!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
In something like Assassins Creed, there is story, there are levels, there is gear progression etc. But, at no point do you ever get to make any decisions about the role you are playing. That is what makes those games action / adventure and not an RPG.
I'll point out that in Assassin's Creed Odyssey there are more "role playing" decisions. Whether or not to allow a family to be killed because they might have the plague, whether or not to support one senate member or another.
I think they are movit it more toward "role playing game."
Admittedly, I've not played Odyssey, last one I played was Origins which didn't seem to have any roleplaying in it as far as I could see. Odyssey looked cool, but I read too many bad reviews about the gameplay (combat specifically) so decided to skip it.
Pretty cool if they are moving the series towards being roleplaying games, I've always thought it could really benefit from such things. I hope they add roleplaying into the progression mechanics, or hell, let us choose whether to be assassin, templar or neutral!
In Odyssy you have three skill trees (of sorts). You can concentrate more on warrior, more on assassin/daggers or more on bow. But you can put points into any one of them.
You can also upgrade your ship in a variety of ways for ship combat almost as if it's its own character. I don't know if you can max everything or not.
Then of course there is the upgrading of your gear in numerous ways where you can add to various bonuses depending on what you want. You want a more "assassin" set you can do that. One that takes advantage of your warrior tree, you can do that.
I actually liked the combat.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think that no matter how much a game may be put "on rails" by quests and other tasks, once you put hundreds and thousands of people together there is going to be human drama. You can't code that out of a game.
In the butchered words of the movie Field of Dreams, "If you build it (an MMO), they will come (complain)."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
My understanding of RPG = role playing game so you take the role of a character and go through a storyline. But also I connect it with leveling/questing/gearing/enhancing/exploring and grinding to be stronger and stronger and it's a captivating aspect.
Role-playing is not simply taking on the role of a character
Actually, that is precisely what the essence of role-playing is.
My understanding of RPG = role playing game so you take the role of a character and go through a storyline. But also I connect it with leveling/questing/gearing/enhancing/exploring and grinding to be stronger and stronger and it's a captivating aspect.
Role-playing is not simply taking on the role of a character
Actually, that is precisely what the essence of role-playing is.
Throw in the word "game", the G part of RPG and you have a more defined criteria, yes?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
My understanding of RPG = role playing game so you take the role of a character and go through a storyline. But also I connect it with leveling/questing/gearing/enhancing/exploring and grinding to be stronger and stronger and it's a captivating aspect.
Role-playing is not simply taking on the role of a character
Actually, that is precisely what the essence of role-playing is.
Throw in the word "game", the G part of RPG and you have a more defined criteria, yes?
Not really. Even the ones they do in the hospital simulations is called a game.
'A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game;[1][2] abbreviated RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]
There are several forms of role-playing games. The original form, sometimes called the tabletop role-playing game (TRPG), is conducted through discussion, whereas in live action role-playing (LARP), players physically perform their characters' actions.[5] In both of these forms, an arranger called a game master (GM) usually decides on the rules and setting to be used, while acting as the referee; each of the other players takes on the role of a single character.[6]
I'd argue the multiplayer RPG elements are fewer and fewer, with the focus shifting more towards a single player story telling experience filled with shorter play times.
Not to say RPG elements don't exist in that formula, but they're not why i play MMORPG's.
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I would like to see a game where there was direct need to change armor/gear based on the environment you were in.
GW2 had underwater combat, but also had Underwater weapons and Armor (Rebreather Helm) and underwater weapons like Tridents, Spears,Spearguns, there was even a whole skill set up you could have underwater and some abilities not working underwater as well.
I loved that, added a whole dimension to the game.
I could see something like that applied to like Very Cold Environments, where as a player you had cold weather gear, jungle gear, desert gear, etc.
While.. for some it would be great, I am sure for others it would come across just more pointless grind.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My understanding of RPG = role playing game so you take the role of a character and go through a storyline. But also I connect it with leveling/questing/gearing/enhancing/exploring and grinding to be stronger and stronger and it's a captivating aspect.
Role-playing is not simply taking on the role of a character
Actually, that is precisely what the essence of role-playing is.
Throw in the word "game", the G part of RPG and you have a more defined criteria, yes?
That largely depends on the game. If you're talking about AD&D 1st. ed., and it's less known contemporary Tunnels and Trolls, not by much. If you're talking D&D 3.5 or FGU's Aftermath that G part becomes much more defined, with the latter requiring a folding chart of light cardboard on which was printed a huge flow chart comprised of many small boxes containing teeny, tiny print (on both sides if I remember correctly) to resolve combat.
Despite all that added crunch in the latter two, the essence of role-playing remains the same in all of them.
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
I think this point is exaggerated. Actually more realism might be desired, not disliked. But why then? Why would players play something with less abstracted elements? Like instead of just hp and mp and defense and attack, sort of like early nintendo RPGs, the game can have many stats, to give the impression characters are modeled more realistically. I think because immersion. To some amount, games need to be like reality for us to immerse. Anything too wildly different is not recognized by our brain as a world. Our brain evolved over millions of years to live in this reality. That seems counter intuitive because we're trying to escape reality, but escaping your girl friend doesn't mean you're trying to escape girl friendS. Just because you don't like your girl friend, doesn't mean youy suddenly hate everything, like her beautiful hair and her gentle nature with a puppy. You don't suddenly wnat to start dating ants or chimpanzees, unless you really are the exception.
How much immersion and what kind depends on the player. Some players just want realistic graphics, others want deep characters with believable personalities, while others just want slightly more realistic inventory, gear and stat and skill juggling. It goes on and on. Some players like to see food and water and starvation. Some like to see slower travel in harsh environments, to feel like the world is big and dangerous. Some like realistic day and night cycles, campfires, weather or climate. NPC schedules, more dynamic combat and better ai that acts more intelligently. 3d sound effects and vr and so many other things are great examples of increased realism.
I'd say realism is far more desired than commonly believed, it's just diferent for each player, so games tend to reach a common denominator, since they're produced for lage audiences, and this is responsible for the confusion because so much realism is sacrificed to attain a large audience. This is why many players think realism is undesired.
I's not realism we want, it's immersion, and they can be slightly different, although i think they share strong relations. I also think games, no matter how realistic they're, tend to fall far below the standards of reality. This is both a factor of what we consider fun and what our software and technology is currently capable of doing. For example, reality can move very slowly, and in a game this would severley restrict the pacing of plot and meaningful choices, so games tend to run much faster with many more dramatic events. And of course software and technology are still far away from being able to do many of the things people are asking for, like intelligent NPCs or completely convincing VR. Things are still very primitive and we won't know what we really want, in terms of realism, until we're actually capable of modeling it with affordable hardware for mass consumption.
She agrees with me (dem girls sometimes agree with me!):
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this one, been trying to think of how to respond.
I agree with the idea that too much realism is not a good thing. I a also agree that realism for the sake of realism is also a waste.
But, I am reminded of something I heard at a Ren Fair (Renaissance Fair)
"We are here to create the best of the middle ages, you know, the dress, the food, the wine, the chivalry, without all that whole dying to plagues and such"
And I think, if MMO's adopted this approach, where the Fun kinds of realism kicked in, like, just to use an example. People talk about "Loadouts", so, if they made it so that players could have loadouts for each Biome, that would be a fun aspect. They get to have a whole gear swap, that they just change into when they enter those biomes. This allows them to get their cold weather clothing for the frozen tundra, an break out their Speedo's and Tridents for when they jump in the water, they change to the more traditional european outfits in the Temperate environments, etc.
This allowing the players that like to meta, to gear up and equip say, flaming weapons when they go into the cold regions, because the fire does more damage, and allowing them to optimize per biome as opposed to trying to make a one-size-fits-all character.
And for the more relaxed player, it allows them to think about the various fashion choices they can make per environment, and allows them to 'dress for the occasion'
In this case, it is a complex thing, but added in a way that players already know, Loadouts, just triggered by the Biome that players enter.
Even going to far as to have clothing for walking through PvE (Safe/town) zones, where having their massive weapons out and outfitted in full battle gear to deal with the banker, would make no sense.
This, the game is building upon realism, but the best kinds of realism, the fun part, the part that adds to the joy of the game, in short, Realism without the suck, sort to speak.
Which is, IMHO, I think something that MMO developers would do well to focus on.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this one, been trying to think of how to respond.
I agree with the idea that too much realism is not a good thing. I a also agree that realism for the sake of realism is also a waste.
But, I am reminded of something I heard at a Ren Fair (Renaissance Fair)
"We are here to create the best of the middle ages, you know, the dress, the food, the wine, the chivalry, without all that whole dying to plagues and such"
And I think, if MMO's adopted this approach, where the Fun kinds of realism kicked in, like, just to use an example. People talk about "Loadouts", so, if they made it so that players could have loadouts for each Biome, that would be a fun aspect. They get to have a whole gear swap, that they just change into when they enter those biomes. This allows them to get their cold weather clothing for the frozen tundra, an break out their Speedo's and Tridents for when they jump in the water, they change to the more traditional european outfits in the Temperate environments, etc.
This allowing the players that like to meta, to gear up and equip say, flaming weapons when they go into the cold regions, because the fire does more damage, and allowing them to optimize per biome as opposed to trying to make a one-size-fits-all character.
And for the more relaxed player, it allows them to think about the various fashion choices they can make per environment, and allows them to 'dress for the occasion'
In this case, it is a complex thing, but added in a way that players already know, Loadouts, just triggered by the Biome that players enter.
Even going to far as to have clothing for walking through PvE (Safe/town) zones, where having their massive weapons out and outfitted in full battle gear to deal with the banker, would make no sense.
This, the game is building upon realism, but the best kinds of realism, the fun part, the part that adds to the joy of the game, in short, Realism without the suck, sort to speak.
Which is, IMHO, I think something that MMO developers would do well to focus on.
Hello Community, let me make the proper introduction for myself as I catch up and read this.. I follow and test mmorpgs for various reasons.. I am interested in this topic as it leads not falls down rabbit wholes. Looking forward in hearing and possibly discussing more. *(Likes where this is Leading)*
Speaking about immersion, I love to interact with the game world. "Items on the ground" is a big one for me. But also, all the things to manipulate. Not only does that make the game feel more immersive, those bits of code can be used to hide things in the game, add traps, trickery, surprises, rewards, etc.
Well I';ll just say that, as far as the OP goes, with more environmental effects and the like, I tend to agree that MMO could be far more advanced in realism than they are.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this one, been trying to think of how to respond.
I agree with the idea that too much realism is not a good thing. I a also agree that realism for the sake of realism is also a waste.
But, I am reminded of something I heard at a Ren Fair (Renaissance Fair)
"We are here to create the best of the middle ages, you know, the dress, the food, the wine, the chivalry, without all that whole dying to plagues and such"
And I think, if MMO's adopted this approach, where the Fun kinds of realism kicked in, like, just to use an example. People talk about "Loadouts", so, if they made it so that players could have loadouts for each Biome, that would be a fun aspect. They get to have a whole gear swap, that they just change into when they enter those biomes. This allows them to get their cold weather clothing for the frozen tundra, an break out their Speedo's and Tridents for when they jump in the water, they change to the more traditional european outfits in the Temperate environments, etc.
This allowing the players that like to meta, to gear up and equip say, flaming weapons when they go into the cold regions, because the fire does more damage, and allowing them to optimize per biome as opposed to trying to make a one-size-fits-all character.
And for the more relaxed player, it allows them to think about the various fashion choices they can make per environment, and allows them to 'dress for the occasion'
In this case, it is a complex thing, but added in a way that players already know, Loadouts, just triggered by the Biome that players enter.
Even going to far as to have clothing for walking through PvE (Safe/town) zones, where having their massive weapons out and outfitted in full battle gear to deal with the banker, would make no sense.
This, the game is building upon realism, but the best kinds of realism, the fun part, the part that adds to the joy of the game, in short, Realism without the suck, sort to speak.
Which is, IMHO, I think something that MMO developers would do well to focus on.
The ren fair quote isn't about realism, but idealism. Of course with all the negative elements removed the remainder becomes much more pleasant. That does nothing though for those seeking realism, which isn't what ren fairs are about but some wish more games were about.
In place of realism you are suggesting the guise of it, mainly through the automatic adjustment of the character's cosmetics based on their environment. If all people want is the illusion of realism such a system would be ideal. For those seeking game play relevant realism It provides very little.
Regardless, for some it would be good enough and so long as it doesn't negatively impact the game otherwise would be harmless to those not interested, so why not.
I'd argue the multiplayer RPG elements are fewer and fewer, with the focus shifting more towards a single player story telling experience filled with shorter play times.
Not to say RPG elements don't exist in that formula, but they're not why i play MMORPG's.
and some of them it feels like everything has already been predetermined. You just have to go through the motions to learn the rest of the story, and that is the worst way to play a MMORPG. I prefer being thrown into a world whre I know nothing and have to explore to learn. Not only are the MMOs today too much about the story, they are too much about questing.
I'd argue the multiplayer RPG elements are fewer and fewer, with the focus shifting more towards a single player story telling experience filled with shorter play times.
Not to say RPG elements don't exist in that formula, but they're not why i play MMORPG's.
and some of them it feels like everything has already been predetermined. You just have to go through the motions to learn the rest of the story.
That's the nature of a story -- it's mostly static. The dynamic bits are really only how the viewer reacts to the events in the game. However, most games have weak writing, it is rare to find a story in a game, especially MMORPG games, that have any lasting impact on the person playing the game. A multiplayer environment really needs the story to encapsulate the fact that it is not just a single player event. For example, tasks and quests really should be written to address a group, not an individual.
Decisions need some emotional impact on the player. This is also too rare. The only sense of failure is personal failure, generally a character death. You rarely find a consequence for failing to 'save the princess' or 'rescue my niece'. The game world would seem a lot more dynamic (and immersive) if the NPCs/events/stories reacted to the character's actions, specifically failed actions.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Hello Community, let me make the proper introduction for myself as I catch up and read this.. I follow and test mmorpgs for various reasons.. I am interested in this topic as it leads not falls down rabbit wholes. Looking forward in hearing and possibly discussing more. *(Likes where this is Leading)*
Welcome! Feel free to jump in when ready
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
I think they are movit it more toward "role playing game."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Unlike most of the previous games, Odyssey is a full role-playing game. It is the end point of a transition that Ubisoft started with Assassin’s Creed: Origins."
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/15/assassins-creed-odyssey-is-an-rpg-so-that-history-can-be-your-playground/
“’History is our playground’ is sort of the motto of Assassin’s Creed,” Phillips told GamesBeat. “That was a starting point for us … [but we] wanted history to be your playground, not just ours. We wanted you to interact and change things. It’s the type of game, honestly, that I wanted to make. The sort of open-world game with choices, with RPG elements of customizing your gear on multiple parts of your body, customizing your abilities and mapping them where you want to on the controls. It’s really about making it the player’s game.”
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can also upgrade your ship in a variety of ways for ship combat almost as if it's its own character. I don't know if you can max everything or not.
Then of course there is the upgrading of your gear in numerous ways where you can add to various bonuses depending on what you want. You want a more "assassin" set you can do that. One that takes advantage of your warrior tree, you can do that.
I actually liked the combat.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Actually, that is precisely what the essence of role-playing is.
Throw in the word "game", the G part of RPG and you have a more defined criteria, yes?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Not really. Even the ones they do in the hospital simulations is called a game.
'A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game;[1][2] abbreviated RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]
There are several forms of role-playing games. The original form, sometimes called the tabletop role-playing game (TRPG), is conducted through discussion, whereas in live action role-playing (LARP), players physically perform their characters' actions.[5] In both of these forms, an arranger called a game master (GM) usually decides on the rules and setting to be used, while acting as the referee; each of the other players takes on the role of a single character.[6]
Several varieties of RPG also exist in electronic media, such as multiplayer text-based Multi-User Dungeons (MUDs) and their graphics-based successors, massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs). Role-playing games also include single-player role-playing video games in which players control a character, or team of characters, who undertake(s) quests, and may include player capabilities that advance using statistical mechanics. These electronic games sometimes share settings and rules with tabletop RPGs, but emphasize character advancement more than collaborative storytelling'
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
"MMORPG's Have Become Too Much About The Story"
I'd argue the multiplayer RPG elements are fewer and fewer, with the focus shifting more towards a single player story telling experience filled with shorter play times.
Not to say RPG elements don't exist in that formula, but they're not why i play MMORPG's.
I think this is mainly because that is what the players want tho.
I would like to see a game where there was direct need to change armor/gear based on the environment you were in.
GW2 had underwater combat, but also had Underwater weapons and Armor (Rebreather Helm) and underwater weapons like Tridents, Spears,Spearguns, there was even a whole skill set up you could have underwater and some abilities not working underwater as well.
I loved that, added a whole dimension to the game.
I could see something like that applied to like Very Cold Environments, where as a player you had cold weather gear, jungle gear, desert gear, etc.
While.. for some it would be great, I am sure for others it would come across just more pointless grind.
That largely depends on the game. If you're talking about AD&D 1st. ed., and it's less known contemporary Tunnels and Trolls, not by much. If you're talking D&D 3.5 or FGU's Aftermath that G part becomes much more defined, with the latter requiring a folding chart of light cardboard on which was printed a huge flow chart comprised of many small boxes containing teeny, tiny print (on both sides if I remember correctly) to resolve combat.
Despite all that added crunch in the latter two, the essence of role-playing remains the same in all of them.
I expect you're right. MMORPGs could be far more realistic than they are, but for many they act as an escape from reality. That value could be diminished greatly if their escape was also grounded firmly in reality.
The absence of magic, accurate human fragility, exposure effects, realistic toxins and disease, infection risk, permanent scarring and maiming, bleeding out, permadeath.
There is so much that could be done to make MMORPGs more realistic, but I expect it wouldn't take many of those before it became too much for most.
I agree with the idea that too much realism is not a good thing. I a also agree that realism for the sake of realism is also a waste.
But, I am reminded of something I heard at a Ren Fair (Renaissance Fair)
"We are here to create the best of the middle ages, you know, the dress, the food, the wine, the chivalry, without all that whole dying to plagues and such"
And I think, if MMO's adopted this approach, where the Fun kinds of realism kicked in, like, just to use an example. People talk about "Loadouts", so, if they made it so that players could have loadouts for each Biome, that would be a fun aspect. They get to have a whole gear swap, that they just change into when they enter those biomes. This allows them to get their cold weather clothing for the frozen tundra, an break out their Speedo's and Tridents for when they jump in the water, they change to the more traditional european outfits in the Temperate environments, etc.
This allowing the players that like to meta, to gear up and equip say, flaming weapons when they go into the cold regions, because the fire does more damage, and allowing them to optimize per biome as opposed to trying to make a one-size-fits-all character.
And for the more relaxed player, it allows them to think about the various fashion choices they can make per environment, and allows them to 'dress for the occasion'
In this case, it is a complex thing, but added in a way that players already know, Loadouts, just triggered by the Biome that players enter.
Even going to far as to have clothing for walking through PvE (Safe/town) zones, where having their massive weapons out and outfitted in full battle gear to deal with the banker, would make no sense.
This, the game is building upon realism, but the best kinds of realism, the fun part, the part that adds to the joy of the game, in short, Realism without the suck, sort to speak.
Which is, IMHO, I think something that MMO developers would do well to focus on.
Once upon a time....
The ren fair quote isn't about realism, but idealism. Of course with all the negative elements removed the remainder becomes much more pleasant. That does nothing though for those seeking realism, which isn't what ren fairs are about but some wish more games were about.
In place of realism you are suggesting the guise of it, mainly through the automatic adjustment of the character's cosmetics based on their environment. If all people want is the illusion of realism such a system would be ideal. For those seeking game play relevant realism It provides very little.
Regardless, for some it would be good enough and so long as it doesn't negatively impact the game otherwise would be harmless to those not interested, so why not.
and some of them it feels like everything has already been predetermined. You just have to go through the motions to learn the rest of the story, and that is the worst way to play a MMORPG. I prefer being thrown into a world whre I know nothing and have to explore to learn. Not only are the MMOs today too much about the story, they are too much about questing.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR