49 min in, Ben talks about the game has what it needs to launch but it will take considerable time to finish. They want the game to be done quicker, is why they are looking for investors or publishers.
I heard that as more an attempt to correct the previous announcement. My quick take on the whole VR finances issue.
VR needs money. They want money. Who knows if they really have enough to finish what they've started? (Still not clear). VR is being pretty particular about who they choose as investors/partners because that money comes with conditions, namely an outside hand to influence development/goals of the game. VR don't seem to want that, so they've selectively rejected some partners because the conditions were too 'confining'. They'd rather take money without conditions, i.e., crowdfunding.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
49 min in, Ben talks about the game has what it needs to launch but it will take considerable time to finish. They want the game to be done quicker, is why they are looking for investors or publishers.
I heard that as more an attempt to correct the previous announcement. My quick take on the whole VR finances issue.
VR needs money. They want money. Who knows if they really have enough to finish what they've started? (Still not clear). VR is being pretty particular about who they choose as investors/partners because that money comes with conditions, namely an outside hand to influence development/goals of the game. VR don't seem to want that, so they've selectively rejected some partners because the conditions were too 'confining'. They'd rather take money without conditions, i.e., crowdfunding.
I also suspect that valuation plays a large part. A company might have offered them cash but for a much larger stake than VR thought was fair. Personally I think that’s more likely than creative control but who knows.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
On investor control, I feel like I have seen this movie before. When Brad was making Vanguard, one of the things he initially liked about MS (I read, by him) was that they funded the game while not interfering with creative control.
At first, anyway.
Later, MS stepped in and was all like where's my f'ing game? And the rest is history. Parking lot. SOE. Rush to release.
Any major investor will have conditions. If unconditional use of someone else's money is what they are after, they are going to be dissappointed.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well Alpha is the polish stage for what they want to hook investers with what they have made. So they still need to finish the many stages of Pre-Alpha 5 and then Alpha 1. So that's gonna be a long way off. (((shrugs)))
49 min in, Ben talks about the game has what it needs to launch but it will take considerable time to finish. They want the game to be done quicker, is why they are looking for investors or publishers.
I heard that as more an attempt to correct the previous announcement. My quick take on the whole VR finances issue.
VR needs money. They want money. Who knows if they really have enough to finish what they've started? (Still not clear). VR is being pretty particular about who they choose as investors/partners because that money comes with conditions, namely an outside hand to influence development/goals of the game. VR don't seem to want that, so they've selectively rejected some partners because the conditions were too 'confining'. They'd rather take money without conditions, i.e., crowdfunding.
I also suspect that valuation plays a large part. A company might have offered them cash but for a much larger stake than VR thought was fair. Personally I think that’s more likely than creative control but who knows.
Read: VR has a high opinion of themselves. Yep.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
49 min in, Ben talks about the game has what it needs to launch but it will take considerable time to finish. They want the game to be done quicker, is why they are looking for investors or publishers.
I heard that as more an attempt to correct the previous announcement. My quick take on the whole VR finances issue.
VR needs money. They want money. Who knows if they really have enough to finish what they've started? (Still not clear). VR is being pretty particular about who they choose as investors/partners because that money comes with conditions, namely an outside hand to influence development/goals of the game. VR don't seem to want that, so they've selectively rejected some partners because the conditions were too 'confining'. They'd rather take money without conditions, i.e., crowdfunding.
I also suspect that valuation plays a large part. A company might have offered them cash but for a much larger stake than VR thought was fair. Personally I think that’s more likely than creative control but who knows.
Read: VR has a high opinion of themselves. Yep.
You say that like it's a bad thing?
If it's work that you truly enjoy, the tendency is to sell yourself short. Case and point, players PAYING for access to test a video game or simply doing it for free.
It takes someone with true business sense to ignore emotions and know the true worth of a product.
PvP not in at launch, something they working on for post launch.
To be clear, the question was specifically about PvP contested zones. And how that would be a post-launch feature, if it's added at all.
They also said PvP and dueling would not be in for Pre-Alpha 5 testing.
However, they didn't say anything about PvP ruleset servers.
So I would be careful about generalizing "PvP", as a whole, not being in at launch. That may end up being the case (I personally hope not), but that wasn't announced during this interview.
PvP not in at launch, something they working on for post launch.
To be clear, the question was specifically about PvP contested zones. And how that would be a post-launch feature, if it's added at all.
They also said PvP and dueling would not be in for Pre-Alpha 5 testing.
However, they didn't say anything about PvP ruleset servers.
So I would be careful about generalizing "PvP", as a whole, not being in at launch. That may end up being the case (I personally hope not), but that wasn't announced during this interview.
At the end they covered PvP in more detail. They dont want to just chuck it in as an after thought. PvP is not being worked on. May add dueling but I dont consider that something that would draw a large PvP market. (Dueling was not mentioned) Between the two statements in two different parts of the video. Its just not on their plate of things to work on now.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Eh.. I am just gonna make a Dwarven Cleric, like I did in EQ1, and, in Homage name name "Never Levels"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
There's the difference between what is said vs what is unsaid....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
This is not new news though. If you have been following closely from the beginning and arent completely naive you have known the state of things for years. Without an outside publisher Or angel investor this game isn't coming out. Many of us discussed this around 2016/17 after they missed the second timeline we were given for alpha/beta. Nothing has changed.
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
Did they not say some people were working for free or am I mixing this game up with another? If you can't pay some of the employees,that is about as broke as it gets,lmao why would anyone even try and argue that?
So then a SIMPLE question,did they not PLAN this out,have a budget with an over/under allowing say 20% or was the whole thing just a "let's wing it"and hope for the best?
This is why EASY money never produces a good game,you have to feel the pressure of NEEDING a solid product or you lose YOUR shirt.
My assumption is they became complacent,those working for free became expectations that no longer seem to fly.The problem internally is those working for free feel pressure that if they leave now they will never see a dollar so it ends up one huge mess.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you are on a shoestring budget you start out with a CORE game and deep systems.You only move 1 zone at a time and at ALL times make sure the game is ready and up to date so that if you run out of money you can stop making zones and just release it as a smaller game.
You keep it HONEST with your player base,subscriptions will keep the team producing more expected content over time until the game reaches a decent accepted size. Then say for example year 2 you begin working on an expansion pack,the whole time maybe not turning huge numbers but earning a decent living and paying the bills all the while looking forward to big sales on an expansion. What we don't know is inside pressure,were there any investors and are they pushing some agenda?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So they expected a 4 year release, so they will at least be over that by an additional 4 years if not 6 years (10 years total). That's pretty hard to shoestring payroll for 6 additional unplanned years. I am amazed they are still even developing since they are so far past projections.
With that said, its just a matter of time now how long they hold out. They might have got a little infusion to keep things going, but no way they can just keep the lights on for another 3-6 years without something happening.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
This is not new news though. If you have been following closely from the beginning and arent completely naive you have known the state of things for years. Without an outside publisher Or angel investor this game isn't coming out. Many of us discussed this around 2016/17 after they missed the second timeline we were given for alpha/beta. Nothing has changed.
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
But they already have angel investors and secured series A funding which was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Ben is lying about potential partners/publishers showing interest?
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
This is not new news though. If you have been following closely from the beginning and arent completely naive you have known the state of things for years. Without an outside publisher Or angel investor this game isn't coming out. Many of us discussed this around 2016/17 after they missed the second timeline we were given for alpha/beta. Nothing has changed.
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
But they already have angel investors and secured series A funding which was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Ben is lying about potential partners/publishers showing interest?
They also said crowd funding was keeping the lights on, just last September as I recall.
Best bet previous funding was exhausted on mostly throw away development.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
This is not new news though. If you have been following closely from the beginning and arent completely naive you have known the state of things for years. Without an outside publisher Or angel investor this game isn't coming out. Many of us discussed this around 2016/17 after they missed the second timeline we were given for alpha/beta. Nothing has changed.
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
But they already have angel investors and secured series A funding which was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Ben is lying about potential partners/publishers showing interest?
All series A funding did was allow them to progress into prealpha. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
The type of "Angel investors" they have mentioned in the past have not provided anywhere close to the investment that is needed.
The current discussion in the community is that VR might be close to a deal with an outside publisher and this newsletter was a way to soften the blow when the official announcement comes. Many people will see someone else having that much influence as a negative.
Whatever happens, the point remains that the financial situation talked about in the october newsletter wasn't new info to anyone following closely. We all knew they would need a major source of funding for it to release...and they still do.
You are really bad at reading between the lines and understanding what they are really saying. Of course they are putting a positive/optimistic spin on things. Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect. For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what they’re REALLY saying.
We're broke and need more cash if we ever hope to deliver the game in this decade.
See, not so hard right?
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
This is not new news though. If you have been following closely from the beginning and arent completely naive you have known the state of things for years. Without an outside publisher Or angel investor this game isn't coming out. Many of us discussed this around 2016/17 after they missed the second timeline we were given for alpha/beta. Nothing has changed.
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
But they already have angel investors and secured series A funding which was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Ben is lying about potential partners/publishers showing interest?
All series A funding did was allow them to progress into prealpha. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
The type of "Angel investers" they have mentioned in the past have not provided anywhere close to the investment that is needed.
The current discussion in the community is that VR might be close to a deal with an outside publisher and this newsletter was a way to soften the blow when the official announcement comes. Many people will see someone else having that much influence as a negative.
Whatever happens, the point remains that the financial situation talked about in the october newsletter wasn't new info to anyone following closely. We all knew they would need a major source of funding for it to release...and they still do.
At this point in time, and this applies to pretty much all these failing crowdfunded mmos, I think the backers should actually welcome an investor taking complete control of the game. That way you might at least get something published.
Although it seems to me that this whole exercise in crowdfunded mmos is more about sustaining the pipe dream rather than actually making (and finishing) a game.
If its going to end up something completely different than what has been advertised I would just rather it fail now so we can move on and look elsewhere.
I don't need them stringing us along for multiple more years for something that wasnt what we signed up for.
At this point there have been so many empty promises that I dont expect anything else from VR. They are aware that those of us who know what has been going on feel this way. They even addressed it in the newsletter when they said: "to those of you whose belief in us has wavered, we hope through our actions we can earn your confidence again. " I appreciate them addressing it. It's time to put up or shut up.
Comments
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
At first, anyway.
Later, MS stepped in and was all like where's my f'ing game? And the rest is history. Parking lot. SOE. Rush to release.
Any major investor will have conditions. If unconditional use of someone else's money is what they are after, they are going to be dissappointed.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Taking it at face value without having a greater understanding of the situation based on previous actions shows an unrealistic disconnect.
For example, to think that the current pre alpha phase will directly lead to alpha is laughably naive.
See, not so hard right?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ben directly states they need partners and publishers to push the game out in a reasonable time frame. How are you defining broke? They still seem to be in production which wouldn't be the case if they're broke.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only difference is now more people are realizing it and VR is slightly more forthcoming about it (though you still have to be able to understand what they are really saying because of course they are putting a positive spin on it).
If you can't pay some of the employees,that is about as broke as it gets,lmao why would anyone even try and argue that?
So then a SIMPLE question,did they not PLAN this out,have a budget with an over/under allowing say 20% or was the whole thing just a "let's wing it"and hope for the best?
This is why EASY money never produces a good game,you have to feel the pressure of NEEDING a solid product or you lose YOUR shirt.
My assumption is they became complacent,those working for free became expectations that no longer seem to fly.The problem internally is those working for free feel pressure that if they leave now they will never see a dollar so it ends up one huge mess.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You keep it HONEST with your player base,subscriptions will keep the team producing more expected content over time until the game reaches a decent accepted size.
Then say for example year 2 you begin working on an expansion pack,the whole time maybe not turning huge numbers but earning a decent living and paying the bills all the while looking forward to big sales on an expansion.
What we don't know is inside pressure,were there any investors and are they pushing some agenda?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
With that said, its just a matter of time now how long they hold out. They might have got a little infusion to keep things going, but no way they can just keep the lights on for another 3-6 years without something happening.
But they already have angel investors and secured series A funding which was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Ben is lying about potential partners/publishers showing interest?
Best bet previous funding was exhausted on mostly throw away development.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The type of "Angel investors" they have mentioned in the past have not provided anywhere close to the investment that is needed.
The current discussion in the community is that VR might be close to a deal with an outside publisher and this newsletter was a way to soften the blow when the official announcement comes. Many people will see someone else having that much influence as a negative.
Whatever happens, the point remains that the financial situation talked about in the october newsletter wasn't new info to anyone following closely. We all knew they would need a major source of funding for it to release...and they still do.
Although it seems to me that this whole exercise in crowdfunded mmos is more about sustaining the pipe dream rather than actually making (and finishing) a game.
If its going to end up something completely different than what has been advertised I would just rather it fail now so we can move on and look elsewhere.
I don't need them stringing us along for multiple more years for something that wasnt what we signed up for.
At this point there have been so many empty promises that I dont expect anything else from VR. They are aware that those of us who know what has been going on feel this way. They even addressed it in the newsletter when they said:
"to those of you whose belief in us has wavered, we hope through our actions we can earn your confidence again. "
I appreciate them addressing it. It's time to put up or shut up.