Mark Jacobs' 'Final Stand: Ragnarok' Opens for First Access | MMORPG.com

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Mark Jacobs' 'Final Stand: Ragnarok' Opens for First Access | MMORPG.com

Remember Final Stand: Ragnarok? Mark Jacbos of Camelot Unchained published a newsletter announcing that Final Stand: Ragnarok is now in First Access. Here's some information.

Read the full story here

Scorchien

STFU MJ

kitarad

So the message is 'support this game for us to get money for CU and then CU will get released'. This is such a douche thing to do.

NicoleC

Still waiting for that refund I'll never get.

Quizzical

So first access is the game's final stand? This doesn't sound like it's going to end well.

Slapshot1188

kitarad said:

So the message is 'support this game for us to get money for CU and then CU will get released'. This is such a douche thing to do.

Well.. anyone that bought CU receives access to this game for free so it's not really a cash grab in that sense.  But I guess when you look at your budget and you need X to finish CU and you only have a percent of that... you have to find a way to close the gap.   One option would have been pushing more crowdfunding with sales, but since day one they have never really done that. (maybe they should have...).  The other way was to find investors.  That is the path Jacobs took and this is the impact of that.

I do not really blame him for this.

What I DO blame him for is being so far off from his initial budget and timeline that the studio was forced to make choices like this.

Kyleran

This story is so last week, which is when I first shared it here.    

Should start calling me "Scoop."

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/492237/final-stand-ragnarok-first-look#latest

Utinni

Crowdfunders, the gift that keeps on giving.

MikeJezZ

This gives me vibes to that warhammer online spin off before the mmorpg got shut down.

I was such an idiot to support this when it first got on kickstarter. A friend hyped me with it was the og team behind daoc and so on and lifetime sub sounded to good to be true so I popped 250 usd in the shredder.

It's many years ago. I was young naive and stupid. I have zero faith in the team anymore, but I also know that if I get my refund (which they don't tend to give out anyway) this would be the next blockbuster.

Don't get refund : game provably get shovelled.
Get a refund : it will overcome wow and I got screwed for kickstarter benefits
(I know this is not realistic at all, but thats usually how my luck works.

Slapshot1188

remsleep said:

Torval said:

Like I said in the other thread, this game looks a lot like an X Warriors alike. I like a bit of Dynasty Warriors with Hyrule Warriors being the clone that clicked with me most. This feels more like a tech demo of their concurrency tech more than it does an X-Warriors clone though and that's a shame. I feel they're so focused on their tech that they're really dropping the ball with creating an engaging game play experience for either of their titles. We'll see I guess.

Its a blatant cash grab - players should be boycotting everything from MJ until CU is completed 

I dunno man. If you add up all the available accounts he is selling it comes to less than $30k.
I find that hard to unpack as a cash grab...

As I said in another thread, I think he is once again screwing things up with the way he is going about this. Nobody IMHO is going to buy this game... but to call it a "blatant cash grab" seems to be a stretch based on the actual amounts of money he can raise here.

Viper482

#$%^ Mark Jacobs.

BruceYee

While I think it kind of stinks to say this...
"If FS:R is the success we hope it to be, even more people will be hired to work on CU only and your turn to see your game go LIVE will be shorter than you fear it to be.“

He is being honest and not hiding anything. Imagine if he didn't say it upfront then on stream slips and says that then it'll be another shitstorm whirlwind for weeks and weeks.. I prefer brutal honesty over kind lies.

Here's what is known about the game.

- It is an INSTANCED 3rd person lobby tower defense type game with character progression.

- There are pre-made characters that you select and level up. He said in the reveal stream that they can add a wide variety of characters in the future. With the 5 first characters there seem to be all the classic Gauntlet archetype which is to be expected.

I'm curious about how this game has been designed more than anything else. How deep is the individual character progression? How strong are the enemy npc? Is there a serious challenge that would require healers & tanks to keep others alive? How is the itemization? Is it like ARPG? Will there be some type of lobby or hub crafting? Is it like a Marvel Heroes patrol zone where everyone does their own thing but comes together to fight bosses?

As for the drama and CU waiting stress... as a 350 backer I'm over being angry at the guy and at this point I literally lose nothing by wishing him success that could possibly lead to his original CU promises being kept. Boycotting this extremely tiny but unique endeavor really doesn't do anyone any good cause 8 years has proven absolutely nothing will change whatever path MJ has laid out in his mind. Mass refunds + forum comment calling out + public shaming has done absolutely jack shit. If CU was always a scam from the start and this game is indeed a last ditch cash grab before he escapes to some country w/o US extradition then that shit is on him.

Mendel

remsleep said:

Torval said:

Like I said in the other thread, this game looks a lot like an X Warriors alike. I like a bit of Dynasty Warriors with Hyrule Warriors being the clone that clicked with me most. This feels more like a tech demo of their concurrency tech more than it does an X-Warriors clone though and that's a shame. I feel they're so focused on their tech that they're really dropping the ball with creating an engaging game play experience for either of their titles. We'll see I guess.

Its a blatant cash grab - players should be boycotting everything from MJ until CU is completed, that's the only way the industry changes 

Stop pre-orders
Stop donating to kickstarters
Stop giving any money to unfinished products period

Only purchase completed games through services that offer refunds

If majority of players did this - it would change the gaming industry 

While I totally agree with the sentiment that it only changes when we change it, the population here at MMORPG.com is such a minuscule segment of the customer base that we essentially don't matter.  All we can do is vent our frustrations and hope that some random viewer sees our posts and takes up the cause.  We're word of mouth, at best.

Asheram

So they think this is going to be a critical success and not just the people who have backed cu playing it to the point they will be able to afford to hire new devs?

Kyleran said:

This story is so last week, which is when I first shared it here.    

Should start calling me "Scoop."

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/492237/final-stand-ragnarok-first-look#latest

I used your video Scoop hope you dont mind.

Morgenes83

Idk but this video looks like that this game won't be successful if they do not improve the design and animations a lot.

I mean this axe guy always does the same swing there seems to be no combo.
The effects and graphics overall scream "low budget game"

Looking at the pace they are delivering such stuff at CU this will also be in "early access" for the next 2-3 years, so we might look at a CU release in ~2026 or so if they need this to be released successfully to speed up the development of CU

Kyleran

Here's the deal. A few years back Mark got additional funds ($8M?) from the investor group with a promise to deliver CU over the line by the end of 2019 or early in 2020 at the latest.

By summer of 2019 it was clear to any outside observer progress was still moving at a snail's pace yet Mark insisted it was on track but moment it wasn't he'd first let the investors know, and then the backers afterwards.

It's pretty clear he knew by September CU wasn't just behind, but perhaps several years more development remained.

So he pitched the idea of FS:R to the investors, asking for some additional funding to create the new title which could serve to bring in some revenue while effort on CU slogged endlessly along.

Sure, he told them development on the new game would benefit CU as well, same two for one "deal" he eventually told the backers about earlier this year.

Heck, if it was a big hit we can expect to see progress on CU accelerated even, but if it flops never fear, CSE has more than enough funds to complete the flagship title.... someday.

If it all sounds like a bit of "funny math" you aren't alone, most aren't buying this line of BS as it makes little sense, but hey, none of us are game developers so how could we know what is and isn't possible?

I'm not a theoretical physicist but I'm pretty sure no one is likely to invent anti gravity or FTL space travel any time soon.

Don't need to be a gaming lead to see this project has failure in its future as the most likely outcome.

MightyUnclean

Kyleran said:

Here's the deal. A few years back Mark got additional funds ($8M?) from the investor group with a promise to deliver CU over the line by the end of 2019 or early in 2020 at the latest.

By summer of 2019 it was clear to any outside observer progress was still moving at a snail's pace yet Mark insisted it was on track but moment it wasn't he'd first let the investors know, and then the backers afterwards.

It's pretty clear he knew by September CU wasn't just behind, but perhaps several years more development remained.

So he pitched the idea of FS:R to the investors, asking for some additional funding to create the new title which could serve to bring in some revenue while effort on CU slogged endlessly along.

Sure, he told them development on the new game would benefit CU as well, same two for one "deal" he eventually told the backers about earlier this year.

Heck, if it was a big hit we can expect to see progress on CU accelerated even, but if it flops never fear, CSE has more than enough funds to complete the flagship title.... someday.

If it all sounds like a bit of "funny math" you aren't alone, most aren't buying this line of BS as it makes little sense, but hey, none of us are game developers so how could we know what is and isn't possible?

I'm not a theoretical physicist but I'm pretty sure no one is likely to invent anti gravity or FTL space travel any time soon.

Don't need to be a gaming lead to see this project has failure in its future as the most likely outcome.

I can't believe that what I imagine to be professional investors bought into his bullshit even further than the backers did.

What was the pitch?  Investors, I realize that I was incredibly wrong on the amount of time and backers' money it would take to complete CU.  But I promise that if now, you give me millions of YOUR money, we'll get it done well and on schedule!  And they trusted him.

Mendel

The oddest thing about this project -- if it is supposed to generate revenue necessary to finish CU, why then *give* this to everyone who's already backed CU?  The CU doners seem like the likeliest audience for this game, and this guarantees that there will be little or no additional revenue.  Unless there is a massive cash-shop/gacha/loot box plan hidden in the back room that I don't know about.  Surely, the investors realized this, right?  I hope MJ didn't just simply talk some old ladies out of their pensions.

Scorchien

I got in  a pretty heated discussion with MJ here , called him out on all his BS and that he would never deliver on his promises to CU community , of course many here attacked me at the time .. Should dig it up would be a fun read now ..

qtaq

What balls on Mark Jacobs to ask people to try this game with very little talk of the game people really wanted to play which is CU, no one gives a rats ass about this game Mark dont you get it or maybe you don't, however I am sure they're will be some bone heads who will give they're money to another bone head who just practically pissed on everyone who gave him money for a game that just doesn't seem to be coming out anytime soon.

Albatroes

Its fine guys. Ashes of Creation pretty much did this and it's turning out just fine.....right? I'm starting to think some of these guys aren't doing this simply because its easy money as much as there's 0 accountability. Just look at all the garbage going on with CoE. Caspian can pretty much keep that game in 'development' limbo forever and never face any consequences. There needs to be more legal language to hold these guys accountable while also protecting stupid people from their themselves. Hell, even disinfectants have to say by law not to ingest (in the US anyway.....doesn't stop the president from suggesting people to try it though)....

Iselin

Investor money obviously came with strings attached.

Kyleran

Iselin said:

Investor money obviously came with strings attached.

I think the investors were in the friends and family category, having backed DAOC in the beginning, but even they knew to ask when they could expect a return on their money.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out some of the $8M pledged back in 2018 was diverted to fund the new game's development.

Asheram

I mean all they had to do is look at how well that worked out for the failed mmo Stargate Worlds and The Repopulation.

Kyleran

remsleep said:

Iselin said:

Investor money obviously came with strings attached.

It almost always does. Money in general comes that way

Apparently with crowdfunding the only promise required is to give it that good ole college try, regardless of duration or quality.

Scot

This is exactly the mistake AoC made, what is going wrong with CF MMOs? Every time they can put a foot wrong they do.